Brahmin caste as a political and social attractant

[Raghy]

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Anti-Brahmanism is driving Brahmans to slyly respect Ravan once glorified by DK and its branches. I think people then were great individually but erred somewhere. Years of propaganda of the glories resulted in idolizing the persons as god or demon. Who knows from 100 years hence Gandhi, Ambedkar, Shivaji, Netaji Bose would become gods and others would become Rakshasas.

Valmiki who composed Ramayana respected Ravana's character. In Sundara Kanda he allocated few chapters to describe the wealth and glory of Srilanka, 'pourusham' of Ravana. Valmiki also explains in detail about his court and greatnes of his subjects. Vamiki further explains how he controls his anger to stay just when Hanuman was brought to the court. In fact, Valmiki says, even Hanuman looked at Ravana with respect. In yudha Khand, more of his valor was explained. Manohar did not stage a play as Ravana as a hero for anti-brahminism purposes. Valmiki did not have have anti-brahminism intentions when he sang the glory of Ravana in so many chapters. Valmiki brought a worthy opponent to Rama through Ravana.

I know this forum will brand me any name... I have seen that quite a few times and there are members to enthusiastically like it too; but, what about Renuka? Is she anti-brahmin too? She also happens to like Ravanan!

Cheers!

 

[Govinda]

Valmiki did not have have anti-brahminism intentions when he sang the glory of Ravana in so many chapters.

I know this forum will brand me any name... I have seen that quite a few times and there are members to enthusiastically like it too; but, what about Renuka? Is she anti-brahmin too? She also happens to like Ravanan!

Cheers!

Rama is a non-brahmin and Ravana is a Brahmin. Why is DK idolising Brahmin Ravana?

I am confused to the core!

 

[renuka]

Rama is a non-brahmin and Ravana is a Brahmin. Why is DK idolising Brahmin Ravana?

I am confused to the core!

This was exactly what I was thinking today when I was driving to work.

Especially I was thinking some people really get their facts wrong..they should be glorying Rama instead of Ravan cos Rama was NB(Lord Rama forgive me cos I know You are an Avatar and beyond Caste but this is just for discussion purposes on technical grounds..so dont mind Ok).

 

[sarang]

Elementary! Because rama is worshiped by brahmins (worship by others is irrelevant), ravana though a brahmin deserves support.

The prime purpose of ramavatara is to kill ravana as he was a tormentor of good souls. Rama was leading from the front, whereas ravana sent all his relations to death before facing rama.

Rama is a non-brahmin and Ravana is a Brahmin. Why is DK idolising Brahmin Ravana?

I am confused to the core!

 

[renuka]

Valmiki who composed Ramayana respected Ravana's character. In Sundara Kanda he allocated few chapters to describe the wealth and glory of Srilanka, 'pourusham' of Ravana. Valmiki also explains in detail about his court and greatnes of his subjects. Vamiki further explains how he controls his anger to stay just when Hanuman was brought to the court. In fact, Valmiki says, even Hanuman looked at Ravana with respect. In yudha Khand, more of his valor was explained. Manohar did not stage a play as Ravana as a hero for anti-brahminism purposes. Valmiki did not have have anti-brahminism intentions when he sang the glory of Ravana in so many chapters. Valmiki brought a worthy opponent to Rama through Ravana.

I know this forum will brand me any name... I have seen that quite a few times and there are members to enthusiastically like it too; but, what about Renuka? Is she anti-brahmin too? She also happens to like Ravanan!

Cheers!

Dear Raghyji,

I remember reading some portion of Vibhishana Geeta where Lord Rama enquires from Vibhishana about a person he sees standing in the battle field.
Lord Rama was all praises for the individual in his looks,might,strength etc and Vibhishana is dumbstruck for a moment and tells Lord Rama that the person is Ravana.

I always felt a admiration for Ravan cos he was the ultimate devotee gate keeper Jaya who didn't mind taking birth as an Anti hero to reach Vaikuntha faster.

Lord Rama loved him dearly and went through hardship purely for the sake of Ravan.

I always felt that Ravan knew his fate and was waiting for the ordeal as I had written before that one stanza in the Shiva Tandava Stotram says it all ..that Ravan just can't wait to be liberated.



Kada nilampa nirjaree nikunja kotare vasan,
Vimuktha durmathee sada sirasthanjaleem vahan,
Vilola lola lochano lalama bhala lagnaka,
Shivethi manthamucharan kada sukhee bhavamyaham.

When will I be happy, living in the hollow place near the celestialriver, Ganga, carrying the folded hands on my head all the time, withmy bad thinking washed away, and uttering the mantra of Lord Shivaand devoted in the God with glorious forehead with vibrating eyes.

 

[Govinda]

Elementary! Because rama is worshiped by brahmins (worship by others is irrelevant), ravana though a brahmin deserves support.

The prime purpose of ramavatara is to kill ravana as he was a tormentor of good souls. Rama was leading from the front, whereas ravana sent all his relations to death before facing rama.

Now I got it. So, DK was against what Brahmins do or follow, not against Brahmins Isn't it just defiance

 

[saidevo]

Here is an article that explains how and why RAvaNa was NOT considered as a brahmin:
Tamil-English Web magazine for Brahmins relating philosophical, social, religious, puranic and vedic issues

 

[rcscwc]

Seriously? I find it a little hard to believe since I have not met a single Brahmin who does that. Most burn Ravan's effigy on Dussehera.

I know Ravan is worshipped in Sri Lanka, but then again, there are not many Sinhala Brahmins.

Then, seriously, you do not know Brahmins in general, and nothing about NI. Not only Brahmns, but I observed Kayashtas to worshipping Ravana on morn of Dussehra.

 

[rcscwc]

DK was a fool. His only agenda was to rile Brahmins. But he forgot Ravana too was a Brahmin.

 

[sarang]

DK is analogus to DIL hating MIL. The dil can never be right or do anything right. The dil has not only enticed her son (tamil) but also turned him against her and her culture(tamil).

Now I got it. So, DK was against what Brahmins do or follow, not against Brahmins Isn't it just defiance

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghyji,

I remember reading some portion of Vibhishana Geeta where Lord Rama enquires from Vibhishana about a person he sees standing in the battle field.
Lord Rama was all praises for the individual in his looks,might,strength etc and Vibhishana is dumbstruck for a moment and tells Lord Rama that the person is Ravana.

I always felt a admiration for Ravan cos he was the ultimate devotee gate keeper Jaya who didn't mind taking birth as an Anti hero to reach Vaikuntha faster.

Lord Rama loved him dearly and went through hardship purely for the sake of Ravan.

I always felt that Ravan knew his fate and was waiting for the ordeal as I had written before that one stanza in the Shiva Tandava Stotram says it all ..that Ravan just can't wait to be liberated.



Kada nilampa nirjaree nikunja kotare vasan,
Vimuktha durmathee sada sirasthanjaleem vahan,
Vilola lola lochano lalama bhala lagnaka,
Shivethi manthamucharan kada sukhee bhavamyaham.

When will I be happy, living in the hollow place near the celestialriver, Ganga, carrying the folded hands on my head all the time, withmy bad thinking washed away, and uttering the mantra of Lord Shivaand devoted in the God with glorious forehead with vibrating eyes.

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

We think so much alike, you should have been my sister. I mean, we should have had the same mother, same gene. I just love your message. But I am not replying now. This is my drinking night; I and my son son just finished cooking. When I am sober, I will reply your message. I am going to listen to songs. But I am not posting them anymore. I shall get back later.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

We think so much alike, you should have been my sister. I mean, we should have had the same mother, same gene. I just love your message.
Cheers!

Ok Raghy Ji...you be Ravan and I be Surpanakha!!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Seriously? I find it a little hard to believe since I have not met a single Brahmin who does that. Most burn Ravan's effigy on Dussehera.

I know Ravan is worshipped in Sri Lanka, but then again, there are not many Sinhala Brahmins.

Member Rcscwc is correct. There is a community called Shrimali brahmins who worship Ravana.

Refer to these news items:

Ravan’s statue stokes controversy in Jodhpur - Indian Express
What is Ram without Ravana? - India - DNA
In Kanpur, the demon Ravana is God - Thaindian News

 

[Govinda]

Ok Raghy Ji...you be Ravan and I be Surpanakha!!

Renuka, you be surpa-danta (from the avatar!)

 

[biswa]

Then, seriously, you do not know Brahmins in general, and nothing about NI. Not only Brahmns, but I observed Kayashtas to worshipping Ravana on morn of Dussehra.

So then why don't you describe the worship so that we can all be enlightened? What qualities of Ravana are praised? Does Ravana have an Ashtottara Shatanama? Do they cry that Ravana was killed? Good to educate others on this new religion.

 

[B V RAAGHAVAN]

Namaskarams,

Dear Renukaji, you are not surpanakha but super nangai.

Anbudan
adiyen

 

[Raghy]

Namaskarams,

Dear Renukaji, you are not surpanakha but super nangai.

Anbudan
adiyen

Sri. Raaghavan,

Surpanaka was also a super nangai. I was told she was pretty. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with her getting attracted to Rama. It happens even today. Does all the girls stay away from a handsome, polite and attractive man just because he is married already? No! In those days, it was no big deal for someone to have two wives. Howmany wives did Dasaratha have?How many wives did Ravana have? It was her real bad luck she ran into a weird human being who followed " eka pathni vradham" Duh! an unheard of quality in those days... poor girl copped a lot, didn't she? All she wanted was share Rama with Sita and expected to acheive some kind of accomadating deal...... ( before anyone suggest my affliation to DK party, I have to say I don't belong, never belonged to such backward thinking parties. But I just have an open mind).

Cheers!

 

[rcscwc]

So then why don't you describe the worship so that we can all be enlightened? What qualities of Ravana are praised? Does Ravana have an Ashtottara Shatanama? Do they cry that Ravana was killed? Good to educate others on this new religion.

The scholarship, what else, is worshipped. So is his devotion to dharma and Shiva. He is credited with Ravan Niti, strotras including the famous Shiv Tandav stotra, and a treatise on astrology. He was brave too. Who else could defeat devas in battle? His ten heads are treated as scolarship of ten sages.

And they do it openly.

What is Ashtottara Shatanama?

It seems that he had no patience with deities like Indra. But then Krishna comprehensively reduced Indra t6o a cypher, except in name.

No they do not tear their hair and clothes, nor cry. Nothing.

In some tribals, the name Ravana can be found.

 

[renuka]

Sri. Raaghavan,

Surpanaka was also a super nangai. I was told she was pretty. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with her getting attracted to Rama. It happens even today. Does all the girls stay away from a handsome, polite and attractive man just because he is married already? No! In those days, it was no big deal for someone to have two wives. Howmany wives did Dasaratha have?How many wives did Ravana have? It was her real bad luck she ran into a weird human being who followed " eka pathni vradham" Duh! an unheard of quality in those days... poor girl copped a lot, didn't she? All she wanted was share Rama with Sita and expected to acheive some kind of accomadating deal...... ( before anyone suggest my affliation to DK party, I have to say I don't belong, never belonged to such backward thinking parties. But I just have an open mind).

Cheers!

Dear Raghy ji,

I agree with you about Surphanaka.Her original name was Meenakshi cos she had beautiful fish like eyes.

That whole episode of Surphanaka and Rama and Lakshmana should have been handled better.

No female stayed away from Arjuna despite he being married to Draupadi.Wherever he went women were displaying their affection to him and became his wives.

Females displayed their affection real openly in the past.

Even Devayani could openly ask Yayati to marry her when he pulled her out of the well.That too bold enough to suggest a Pratiloma Intercaste marriage.
Earlier the same Devayani was in love with her father's student Kacha but since that proved not fruitful she cursed him and he cursed her in return.

So basically she was cool about getting married to another guy(Yayati).
She did not cry for her first love and spend rest of her life thinking of him.

Come to think of it females in the past have been bold.
How many of us females dare make the 1st move and tell a guy we like him?
We dare not! Most of us wait for a male to make the 1st move.

So back to that Surphanaka story..I feel its should have been handled in more polite manner.
But then again its supposed to be Divine role play..so I may really never actually know the true reason behind that whole episode.

 

[renuka]

The scholarship, what else, is worshipped. So is his devotion to dharma and Shiva. He is credited with Ravan Niti, strotras including the famous Shiv Tandav stotra, and a treatise on astrology. He was brave too. Who else could defeat devas in battle? His ten heads are treated as scolarship of ten sages.

And they do it openly.

What is Ashtottara Shatanama?

It seems that he had no patience with deities like Indra. But then Krishna comprehensively reduced Indra t6o a cypher, except in name.

No they do not tear their hair and clothes, nor cry. Nothing.

In some tribals, the name Ravana can be found.

When I was a student in India..I remember there was a guy from Tamil Nadu with the name Ravanan.
He said that his father named him so cos his father was an Atheist.(don't see the logic though)
But this guy Ravanan was a real Shiva Bhaktha and didn't turn out to be an Atheist like his dad.

 

[renuka]

The scholarship, what else, is worshipped. So is his devotion to dharma and Shiva. He is credited with Ravan Niti, strotras including the famous Shiv Tandav stotra, and a treatise on astrology. He was brave too. Who else could defeat devas in battle? His ten heads are treated as scolarship of ten sages.

And they do it openly.

What is Ashtottara Shatanama?

It seems that he had no patience with deities like Indra. But then Krishna comprehensively reduced Indra t6o a cypher, except in name.

No they do not tear their hair and clothes, nor cry. Nothing.

In some tribals, the name Ravana can be found.

Nice to read what you wrote.Finally good to know that I am not the only one who admires Ravan.
I never really like to see the Ravan burning ritual during Dusshera.
I used to think we humans know nuts compared to what Ravan knew and we dare burn him down?
Anyway all those who love to burn him down better think of composing some Ravan Stotra and praise him if you want to get into Vaikuntha.
After all he is the gate keeper there..even the Sanat Kumars were denied entry what to say about mere mortals?

 

[sarang]

In the film sampoorna ramayanam starring ntr, ravana is portrayed as a cultured person with immense scholarship in music.

There are people with names as 'ravan' or 'ravanan' in amny parts of india (including tamilnadu).

I have not heard so far of anyone having the name 'surpanaka'.