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Bhagavad Geeta to be banned in Russia - Extremist Literature!

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sarang

Well-known member
The church wants it and is pressurising the state; it is also happening in a european country. That shows how tolerant and secular christians and muslims are.

When ramanujam's essay on ramayana was just dropped from the syllabus, there was commotion. Now, I believe sangom saheb will object to the demand for the ban on printing/ distribution of gita. Let us see what happens when the church of russia wants to ban quran.

The last remnant of hindu families from pakistan are seeking asylum in india; our secular government is asking them to go back and face extinction.

Pope has signed a deal with the jews that the church will not convert the jews. Let him sign a deal with muslims to ban mutual conversion.

'Bhagvad Gita' faces 'extremist' branding, legal ban in Russia - 1 -

Bhagavadgeeta may be banned in Russia because it is seen as extremist literature. That's how orthodox hinduism appears from outside of the 'system'.
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
The church wants it and is pressurising the state; it is also happening in a european country. That shows how tolerant and secular christians and muslims are.

When ramanujam's essay on ramayana was just dropped from the syllabus, there was commotion. Now, I believe sangom saheb will object to the demand for the ban on printing/ distribution of gita. Let us see what happens when the church of russia wants to ban quran.

The last remnant of hindu families from pakistan are seeking asylum in india; our secular government is asking them to go back and face extinction.

Pope has signed a deal with the jews that the church will not convert the jews. Let him sign a deal with muslims to ban mutual conversion.

Dear Sarang,

Please don't be afraid of myself objecting "to the demand for the ban on printing/ distribution of gita". But I am certainly against children below voting age being taught gita compulsorily as though it is such a great thing.

fyi, some sixty or so years ago Mahabharata including Gita, was not permitted in orthodox tabra houses and people who wanted to learn these had to go to parks or temple mandapams, just as it was for learning the mantras for "aparaprayoga". All the publicity and glorification of BG is subsequent only, at least among tabras of Travancore, imho.
 

suraju06

Well-known member
sangom in his post #3:

fyi, some sixty or so years ago Mahabharata including Gita, was not permitted in orthodox tabra houses and people who wanted to learn these had to go to parks or temple mandapams, just as it was for learning the mantras for "aparaprayoga". All the publicity and glorification of BG is subsequent only, at least among tabras of Travancore, imho.

The objection was only to Mahabharata and an exception used to be made for BG.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Devotees in Tomsk, Siberia, are currently in court fighting an attempt by the Russian government’s Federal Security Service (FSB) to prove that Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is is an extremist literature that should be banned.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...anding-ban-in-Russia/articleshow/11143014.cms


This is a ISKCON story, are we generalizing it. I know Indian government is a secular, and may not fight for Hindu rights, but they should join the fight for Indian right. I do not know the exact content of this version of the Gita. May be people more knowledgeable can explain the passages the "Russian Federal Security" finds objectionable.
I am not a ISKCON fan.

Talking it a step further is ISKCON a Hindu movement?
http://www.hansadutta.com/ART_WSP/Hindus231207.html
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
sangom in his post #3:



The objection was only to Mahabharata and an exception used to be made for BG.

There was objection to BG also being learnt or recited in 'houses' because it was felt that BG will cause "kulanaaSam" as happened to the kurus. I know at least my (maternal) grandfather and his cousins adhering to this, but later one chithappa of my mother got very much attracted to Chinmayananda and his Gita interpretation etc., after that Chithappa settled down in Mumbai, late in his life.
 

sarang

Well-known member
Some timeline information on the iskon movement. Main objection is from christians and muslims; traditional anti other religion attitude of the church is back with a vengeance. iskon is growing and is expanding its community base; hence this violent action by the church.

1990: responding to ISKCON's requests, Moscow authorities allotted a dilapidated two-story building to be used as a temple. After the devotees renovated the property, they opened the first ISKCON temple in the history of Russia and the U.S.S.R., a temple frequented by large numbers of Hindus as well.

In 1997 a bill passed by the Russian parliament (Duma) recognized the Russian Orthodox Church as the sole, preeminent religion of the Russian Federation, with an addendum acknowledging only three other “traditional” Russian faiths: Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism. Other religions would not have the same legal status or any support for their missionary work.

The Bishops’ Council of the Russian Orthodox Church made an official statement calling the teachings of the Bhagavad-gita the product of a “false religion.” And they called all other religions a threat to the unity of national consciousness and cultural identity.

2004: the Moscow government took back the building and destroyed it according to city renovation plans, depriving thousands of devotees of their place of worship.

In January 2004, after many years of struggle, the mayor of Moscow finally signed an order proclaiming that land would be given for a new ISKCON temple—in a prominent Moscow location and free of charge, no doubt at the behest of important Indian politicians. The land was on the main road from the Kremlin to the international airport, about a ten-minute drive from the heart of Moscow. The devotees happily relocated to a temporary building on their newly acquired land and were prepared to develop their new temple complex.

It didn’t take long, however, for the Russian Orthodox Church, along with Muslim and Jewish authorities, to speak out against the construction, opining that the entire Krishna religion was against Russian tradition. Protestors rallied in Pushkin Square, in the center of the capital, brandishing icons, flags, and banners with warnings like "Krishna Followers Are Brainwashed” and “Friends, Defend Your Faith. We Oppose the Expansion of Sects. Beware!"

The Moscow mayor finally allocated land to ISKCON, despite objections by the Orthodox Church, which threatened to renew its protests against the construction. But the die was cast, and overturning the mayor's decisions seems highly unlikely. Devotees played a winning move.

On September, 2011, India`s Minister of Tourism met with Gopal Krishna Goswami to review the progress of the project of a new temple in Moscow. Ironically, a few days after the Minister`s visit, there was an unfortunate turn of events that could clearly endanger the wonderful plans.

Oct 2011: Human Rights Commissioner for Russia`s Tomsk region urged the initiators of the trial of ISKCON`s main book, the "Bhagavad-Gita As It Is” to rethink their approach.

http://btg.krishna.com/checkmate-iskcons-victory-russia
http://www.prabhupada.org/krishna/?cat=269
 
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suraju06

Well-known member
Sangom in post #6:

There was objection to BG also being learnt or recited in 'houses' because it was felt that BG will cause "kulanaaSam" as happened to the kurus. I know at least my (maternal) grandfather and his cousins adhering to this, but later one chithappa of my mother got very much attracted to Chinmayananda and his Gita interpretation etc., after that Chithappa settled down in Mumbai, late in his life.​


At least in tamil brahmin houses this was not this way. we used to hear elders chanting and lecturing on BG. elders used to particularly refer to the charamasloka in BG and tell us the importance of it. I thought the tbs settled in Trivandrum would have carried this tradition to their new home too. In fact I have heard elders saying that BG was part of the Grantha chathushtayam in which one should be well versed to understand the Hindu dharma and the philosophy.
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member


Bhagavad Gita faces 'extremist' branding, ban in Russia - The Times of India


This is a ISKCON story, are we generalizing it. I know Indian government is a secular, and may not fight for Hindu rights, but they should join the fight for Indian right. I do not know the exact content of this version of the Gita. May be people more knowledgeable can explain the passages the "Russian Federal Security" finds objectionable.
I am not a ISKCON fan.

Talking it a step further is ISKCON a Hindu movement?
Krishna Not a Hindu God, Rathayatra Not Owned by Hindus

Shri prasad,

Are we prepared to consider BG as some iskcon workbook or manual and remain unconcerned if BG is banned or restricted otherwise in Russia? If we are so prepared and admitting indirectly that there is extremism in hindu religion also, then there is no problem at all.
 

suraju06

Well-known member
If the Russian Orthodox Church in its wisdom considers that BG is not wanted for its followers it is fine. There are many such countries in the world who want their citizens to follow only what the church or the Imam says. why should we bother. But this extremism stuff is something which my countrymen would not be able to stomach. I think the court proceedings will throw light on this.
 

sarang

Well-known member
You are thinking of government curriculum. If some private schools want to teach BG, it should be ok. missionary schools are having bible class in the guise replacing the old moral subject. No need to talk about muslim schools. I haven't understood what is your take on ban on printing BG.

We had mahabharata (sage vyasa's in samskrit)at home and there was no injunction not to read it. Rajaji's vyasar virundu was avidly read by young and old alike. Traditionally more importance was given to sundarakanda parayanam and learning/ reciting of stotras. That is all.

Please don't be afraid of myself objecting "to the demand for the ban on printing/ distribution of gita". But I am certainly against children below voting age being taught gita compulsorily as though it is such a great thing.

fyi, some sixty or so years ago Mahabharata including Gita, was not permitted in orthodox tabra houses and people who wanted to learn these had to go to parks or temple mandapams, just as it was for learning the mantras for "aparaprayoga". All the publicity and glorification of BG is subsequent only, at least among tabras of Travancore, imho.
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Shri prasad,

Are we prepared to consider BG as some iskcon workbook or manual and remain unconcerned if BG is banned or restricted otherwise in Russia? If we are so prepared and admitting indirectly that there is extremism in hindu religion also, then there is no problem at all.

Sir Sangom,
I do not know how much you know of ISKCON. Just because they claim they follow BG. My experience with ISKCON is that it is a cult. I do not agree with their interpretation of Hinduism. I used to visit ISKCON temple as it was near my hostel in London. They tried to convert me, LOL.
I was also embarrassed by their antics in the air ports harassing travelers, and chanting on the streets in their garbs.

If the ISKCON version that preached some antisocial message, it should be banned in any society.
I do not know the details. I would not jump to the conclusion that all versions of BG is banned. So please take a moment and read the fine print please.
The problem with running a partial story, is that we come to wrong conclusions.

I come from the family where Gita was chanted frequently. We all used to follow Chinmayananda too. I used to attend Gita class from very young age.
 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
Sir Sangom,
I do not know how much you know of ISKCON. Just because they claim they follow BG. My experience with ISKCON is that it is a cult. I do not agree with their interpretation of Hinduism. I used to visit ISKCON temple as it was near my hostel in London. They tried to convert me, LOL.
I was also embarrassed by their antics in the air ports harassing travelers, and chanting on the streets in their garbs.


I do not know the details. I would not jump to the conclusion that all versions of BG is banned. So please take a moment and read the fine print please.
The problem with running a partial story, is that we come to wrong conclusions.

I come from the family where Gita was chanted frequently. We all used to follow Chinmayananda too. I used to attend Gita class from very young age.

Shri Prasad,

I am aware of iskcon right from its inception in US by BVPP. It had and it has all the characteristics of a cult. BVPP was a gaudiya monk. That gaudiya vaishnavism did not have much following in India was perhaps one reason which made the acharya to abide by "go west, young man" during the 1960's though he was no longer young then!

I am more than well aware of iskcon's cons because my wife's cousin has been, somehow, lured by the cult and he has been lost, irretrievably - to his wife and son, as well as suffering mother!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
Shri Prasad,

I am aware of iskcon right from its inception in US by BVPP. It had and it has all the characteristics of a cult. BVPP was a gaudiya monk. That gaudiya vaishnavism did not have much following in India was perhaps one reason which made the acharya to abide by "go west, young man" during the 1960's though he was no longer young then!

I am more than well aware of iskcon's cons because my wife's cousin has been, somehow, lured by the cult and he has been lost, irretrievably - to his wife and son, as well as suffering mother!

Sir Sangom,
I am very sorry for my earlier post, obviously the tone was not correct. I realize my mistake after reading your reply. I did not imply that you know less of ISKCON, i assumed you may not know about ISKCON. My apologies to you sir.
 

B.Krishnamurthy

Active member
In the MSN News articlein the first post,I found many persons have commented.I get a feeling that only the book written by
ISCON leader is being banned,but not BG wriiten by VEDVYASA.
one Mr.Pratap Rana has made a comment on this issue which speaks of evolution of Human Beings from Animals.While he has conveyed some good reasoning,the wording could have been different without hurting the feelings of others.
I wonder that as individuals we always look at issues only from our view point.
If a TB girl marries in another caste or religion we make a big issue of it as if everything in this world has been lost for that family.Similarly,if a Hindu changes his faith to other Faiths,We make a hue and cry.
Many Foreigners have started adopting HINDU way of LIFE and many Foreigners have joined ISCON.
WE are never bothered or worried about the feelings of those foreigner's families.
 

Yamaka

New member
Can someone compare and contrast the translation of this ISKCON person to that of the "TRADITONAL" translation of BG prevalent in India?

The prosecutor, it seems, claims that this translation is "intolerant" of other religious sensitivities in Russia!

A Secular Russia aims to keep the population "not fired up" on religious issue!

That's their job, I suppose.

I am very eager to know MORE of the proceedings and the final verdict, and the logic of everything.

Cheers.

:)
 
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sarang

Well-known member
Let us hope sanity prevails and the russian government intervenes.

"
In the wake of an uproar over a move to ban Bhagwad Gita in
Siberia
,
Russia
has expressed sadness over the development, saying it is "inadmissible" that a holy scripture is taken to court."It is strange that such events are unfolding in the beautiful university city in Siberia, as Tomsk which is famous for its secularism and religious tolerance," Alexander M Kadakin, Russian ambassador in India said in a statement here.

A Russian court had yesterday suspended its verdict till December 28 on the demand for banning Bhagvad Gita, which a group linked to the Christian Orthodox Church has described as 'extremist'.



 
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sangom

sangom

Well-known member
Can someone compare and contrast the translation of this ISKCON person to that of the "TRADITONAL" translation of BG prevalent in India?

The prosecutor, it seems, claims that this translation is "intolerant" of other religious sensitivities in Russia!

A Secular Russia aims to keep the population "not fired up" on religious issue!

That's their job, I suppose.

I am very eager to know MORE of the proceedings and the final verdict, and the logic of everything.

Cheers.

:)

Shri Y,

I have not read this iskcon translation but tried to do so. For Abhay Charan De a.k.a AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada (BVP) krishna is the sole and supreme godhead in the whole universe. All other belief systems are sort of heretical. He even goes to saying iskcon is not hinduism but krishnaism. With such "broad-minded" background I could not but stop reading the book on line.

Even outside of iskcon, BG is a text which induces a reluctant Arjuna (due to fear of killing his elders, fraternity, guru and so on plus the very many bad outcomes of such a war) to wage war against his cousins. This aspect has been brought out by B.G. Tilak in his Gita Rahasya because he subscribed to extremist pov during the independence struggle until he was shown his place in Mandalay prison and got mellowed thereafter.

I doubt very much that the Siberians must have found the antics of the iskconites on their roads very much of a nuisance and complained to the local police. Thereafter the case must have taken on the divisive/extremist ideas preached by their text.
 

Nara

Well-known member
....The prosecutor, it seems, claims that this translation is "intolerant" of other religious sensitivities in Russia!
Y, this is an important point that is being missed I think. Here is an ISKCON follower holding a sign, "Don't ban BG". The Hindu reports today that Lalu took to the floor of the parliament and thundered, "We will not tolerate any move to insult Lord Krishna, [it is a] conspiracy against Lord Krishna".

But, when I read the accounts of this case it seems what is being attempted is a ban on the BG commentary written by ISKCON founder, not BG itself or any other commentary. But, if we go by the noises people are making one is apt to think all books on BG and BG itself are being banned.

Many governments ban lots of books on many grounds including the reason that it could cause social discord, the very basis upon which this prosecutor wants the court to ban this BG commentary. Saying this is an insult to Krishna or that BG is being banned just nonsense and is pure demagoguery.

BTW, the Indian government bans many books on the grounds of avoiding hurt to religious sentiments, the most well known among them is The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. Nobody took to the streets demanding these books are not banned. If Indian government can ban books, why not Russian government?

Just so I am not misunderstood, I am against censorship. This prosecutor is misguided to try to ban this book because some people may get hurt. It is as ridiculous as Lalu claiming Krishna is being insulted.

Cheers!
 

Iyyarooraan

Well-known member
I think BG is opposed because ISKCON is propagating it. ISKCON was looked at suspiciously even in India. Maybe Russia has a point. Even after dismantling the edifice of USSR, the mutual suspicion (of US & Russia) has not disappeared. Well, Gita has again become popular. So far so good.
 

Nara

Well-known member
I think BG is opposed because ISKCON is propagating it.
Iyyarooraan, all the reports are about a court case asking for the book "Bhagavad-gita As It Is" by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to be banned. There is no mention that the opposition is to BG itself. I am puzzled why you think "BG is opposed". Is there anything in the news to suggest this?

Cheers!
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Iyyarooraan, all the reports are about a court case asking for the book "Bhagavad-gita As It Is" by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to be banned. There is no mention that the opposition is to BG itself. I am puzzled why you think "BG is opposed". Is there anything in the news to suggest this?

Cheers!

Is there much difference between Prabhupada's BG as it is and BG? There may be minor variances, but no major ones. So one ban leads to another, is it not?

There was an interview with Ambassador of the country as also the matter was raised in the Lok Sabha. It did not come out that the ban was only for Prabhupada's brand alone and not the other ones. ISKCON guys are defending the suit in Serbia, so may be it appears that only Prabhupada's BG is only being banned.

May be I missed something.

Regards,
 

Nara

Well-known member
Is there much difference between Prabhupada's BG as it is and BG? There may be minor variances, but no major ones. So one ban leads to another, is it not?
Narayan, the former is a commentary some 400+ pages long giving a Gaudia Vaishnava interpretation to BG, whereas, the later is the original text that may run to some 50 odd pages in print. Unless Prabhupada's BG As It Is is the only book on BG available anywhere in Russia, banning it cannot mean banning BG itself, or any of its other translations.

It did not come out that the ban was only for Prabhupada's brand alone and not the other ones. ISKCON guys are defending the suit in Serbia, so may be it appears that only Prabhupada's BG is only being banned.
Precisely, I have been scouring the web to see any news report that gives a full and accurate account, but, unfortunately, all accounts are somewhat ambiguous.

All the reports state the Siberia (it is Siberia, not Serbia -- it is my mistake) case seeking a ban on the Russian translation of Bhagavad Gita As It Is. The reports then go on to say the petitioner wants the Hindu religious text banned in whole of Russia. This is what is ambiguous. In the context of the news reported, I took the phrase "Hindu religious text" to mean the "As It Is" commentary, not the BG itself or any of its other commentaries and translations.

Cheers!
 

sarang

Well-known member
In india books and films are banned when there is vocal and physical protest by muslims and christians.

The prosecutor is just a face; the russian orthodox church is the mover.




BTW, the Indian government bans many books on the grounds of avoiding hurt to religious sentiments, the most well known among them is The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. Nobody took to the streets demanding these books are not banned. If Indian government can ban books, why not Russian government?

Just so I am not misunderstood, I am against censorship. This prosecutor is misguided to try to ban this book because some people may get hurt. It is as ridiculous as Lalu claiming Krishna is being insulted.

Cheers!
 

sarang

Well-known member
Now in copenhagen.

On 6.12.,20.45 the temple in Copenhagen was attacked by a group of gundas with obviously Muslim background. First stones were thrown against the front of the residential temple building, then the window in the mathaji asrama got broken.[TK], the temple president, called police instantly. A single police officer arived, took notice of the dammage and left again. Half an hour later a bigger group of the same attackers arived, again throwing stones, entering the garden, braking this time windows in the Tulasi room, all the bottom windows facing the street. Finaly they tried to brake into the house, seeking direct physical conflict.

20/12/2011 13:15:37 europenews.dk/en/
 
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