Best of both worlds

[sravna]

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For those scientists who are high on the possibility of immortality here is a reason why that is a weak possibility:

Immortality implies you survive for ever even somehow the destruction of the universe. If that were possible some other race from a previous universe might have accomplished that and would have survived. They in essence would be ruling the present universe and are God in a sense. But we see no evidence of the above and hence such a possibility is a very weak one IMO.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Dear Sangom,

You know no one actually starts a thread targeted at Atheist.
In fact most of us dont even know how to spell that word cos its not in our mind.
Respect is mutual..No one is disrespecting the believe of an Atheist but Atheist also should respect Theist.
If you see most post here..everyone is just trying to explain to a Non Believer why Religion is useful and God Exists.

Good point!

I wrote here sometime back that the theists can talk about religion/ theism/ spirituality etc without as much a mention about atheism. Can the atheists do that? No, because an atheist defines himself relative to a theist: absence+theism = atheism. It is the atheist who has bones to pick against a theist. It is the atheist who reveals a crass attitude when it comes to anything related to theism or theists all for the glorification of his massive ego.

Even non-brahmin members who have proved that they have sufficiently 'emancipated' to the caucus' prescribed qualifications will be deemed brahmins; but NB memeders not satisfying this condition will be hounded out.

In the last month or so, the following members have either quit the forum or stopped participating actively.

1. Dr. Barani
2. TKS
3. Nacchinaarkiniyan
4. TBS
5. Pviyer

Suraju bid goodbye but has since come back.

These are the members that I am aware of; perhaps there are more.

None of these members is an atheist or a NB. So who is being hounded out?!!

As far as this forum is concerned, it is not the theists who are in need of introspection.

 

[C RAVI]

Sri saideo,


I would beg you to not to take the things to your heart and continue your valuable contributions here. It is the pride and pleasure of many of this forum members to have esteemed members like you.

Please don't feel hurt for pointing out errors on you and projecting you as dishormonizing member. Please don't take edition of your post and warnings of the moderator as disrespect and injustice to you. AFA I am concerned, this is not your personal pain but many of us who stand by you and endorse your views, justificatiioins and reasonable counter argument.


We would be happy if you do not succumb to any mishandling and eject yourself.


Please continue with your valuable contributions.


Mr.Praveen is doing his job and would for sure would know your case "black and white", IMHO.


​

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Ravi.

Thank you for your concern. I have sent a PM to Praveen about some posts. Until he takes action on them, I cannot participate here. Now he has also denied access to my Profile.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Saidevo,

I fully endorse what Ravi says and request you not to take to heart what has been said and keep enlightening us with your valuable perspective.

 

[renuka]

If there is 1 person who has immensely contributed to TB Forum as to enhance our religious knowledge its Saidevo.
Without the links and topics he had covered in his stay here TB Forum will be just like some chat room and nothing more.

 

[praveen]

namaste shrI Ravi.

Thank you for your concern. I have sent a PM to Praveen about some posts. Until he takes action on them, I cannot participate here. Now he has also denied access to my Profile.

Just to clarify, your access has not been denied. There is a backup that is being taken so all profile details are temp not available. Check back in 5 -10 mins (around 11.50am IST)

 

[praveen]

I have sent a PM to Praveen about some posts. Until he takes action on them, I cannot participate here.

I have no intention to act on them simply because it is a case of he said this here, so why didnt you take action... i said this here but you took action scenario.

If something was not right, it should have been pointed out at that time itself not now.

 

[sangom]

Good point!

I wrote here sometime back that the theists can talk about religion/ theism/ spirituality etc without as much a mention about atheism. Can the atheists do that? No, because an atheist defines himself relative to a theist: absence+theism = atheism. It is the atheist who has bones to pick against a theist. It is the atheist who reveals a crass attitude when it comes to anything related to theism or theists all for the glorification of his massive ego.



In the last month or so, the following members have either quit the forum or stopped participating actively.

1. Dr. Barani
2. TKS
3. Nacchinaarkiniyan
4. TBS
5. Pviyer

Suraju bid goodbye but has since come back.

These are the members that I am aware of; perhaps there are more.

None of these members are atheist or a NB. So who is being hounded out?!!

As far as this forum is concerned, it is not the theists who are in need of introspection.

Shri Kalabhairavan,

Out of the 5 names you have given above, at least four exhibited condescension towards those whom you have called "brabas" or "bbs" or some such acronyms. IMHO, none of these atheists or agnostics show such an attitude in their posts. Moreover, none in the atheist camp is trying, even remotely, to convert any believer; what they are trying to say is that life has become simpler and more enjoyable for them once they left the "old man of the sea" (sinbad's version) clinging on to their shoulders and clasping their neck - religion and God. It is for each reader to judge for himself or herself to decide what to follow and how much to follow.

The younger generation, throughout the world, I will say (though I have little first-hand knowledge of foreign countries except what my sons tell me) are not in need of religious teachings but inputs which will equip them to lead their lives in this material world in such a way that they are successful (materially, that's what I mean) in their life and also spend their lives as good human beings. Religion has become imho, very inadequate as an instrument in shaping human lives in this manner.

As Shri Kunjuppu said in one or two of his posts (K, please correct me if I am wrong.) there are many tabra women living abroad happily and contentedly without following any of the conventional achaarams, shuddham or other practices. But many of them will not like to put forward their life experiences boldly to the outside world for fear of criticism by their relatives who have inhibitions in so doing. Some of us here try to present that the so-called religious, hindu, tamil-brahmin, spiritual way is not the only commendable way to live.

The present problem has arisen because to me at least, it appears that the theist group resorts to ingenious ways of one-up-man-ship and scoring over the opposition, and, lastly, when no other way remained, they have picked upon the use of words such as "inner self" by atheists and by claiming that it is their property, so to say, they want to establish that by using such words, they unwittingly become theists. So, you may very well judge which side is trying to convert which.

It is my suggestion that unless an atheist asks a specific question, there is no need for the theist side to take note of any of their posts; if someone wants to reply let it be on the basis of arguments, points and specific facts — and not such unrelated items as use of words.

 

[praveen]

No one asked them to leave.

It is their choice and their choice alone. We cannot stop people from leaving.

Views are going to be opposed, sometimes in a light way and sometimes in a very hard way. Thats fact of life and it happens every where and in every walk of life.

This forum is quite clear on where it stands and time and again i have said it is you, members, who decide on the actions and who are the backbone of this site.

So if the forum has a problem then its the members who have a problem and if the members have a problem, then what can i say...

Good point!

I wrote here sometime back that the theists can talk about religion/ theism/ spirituality etc without as much a mention about atheism. Can the atheists do that? No, because an atheist defines himself relative to a theist: absence+theism = atheism. It is the atheist who has bones to pick against a theist. It is the atheist who reveals a crass attitude when it comes to anything related to theism or theists all for the glorification of his massive ego.



In the last month or so, the following members have either quit the forum or stopped participating actively.

1. Dr. Barani
2. TKS
3. Nacchinaarkiniyan
4. TBS
5. Pviyer

Suraju bid goodbye but has since come back.

These are the members that I am aware of; perhaps there are more.

None of these members is an atheist or a NB. So who is being hounded out?!!

As far as this forum is concerned, it is not the theists who are in need of introspection.

 

[C RAVI]

I have no intention to act on them simply because it is a case of he said this here, so why didnt you take action... i said this here but you took action scenario.

If something was not right, it should have been pointed out at that time itself not now.

That's OK Mr.Praveen. I believe the above point is applicable to every member of this forum.

I would request all the members to keep this valid point in record and assert oneself to not to overrule the above conduct even by mistake

 

[renuka]

Shri Kalabhairavan,

Out of the 5 names you have given above, at least four exhibited condescension towards those whom you have called "brabas" or "bbs" or some such acronyms. IMHO, none of these atheists or agnostics show such an attitude in their posts. Moreover, none in the atheist camp is trying, even remotely, to convert any believer; what they are trying to say is that life has become simpler and more enjoyable for them once they left the "old man of the sea" (sinbad's version) clinging on to their shoulders and clasping their neck - religion and God. It is for each reader to judge for himself or herself to decide what to follow and how much to follow.

The younger generation, throughout the world, I will say (though I have little first-hand knowledge of foreign countries except what my sons tell me) are not in need of religious teachings but inputs which will equip them to lead their lives in this material world in such a way that they are successful (materially, that's what I mean) in their life and also spend their lives as good human beings. Religion has become imho, very inadequate as an instrument in shaping human lives in this manner.

As Shri Kunjuppu said in one or two of his posts (K, please correct me if I am wrong.) there are many tabra women living abroad happily and contentedly without following any of the conventional achaarams, shuddham or other practices. But many of them will not like to put forward their life experiences boldly to the outside world for fear of criticism by their relatives who have inhibitions in so doing. Some of us here try to present that the so-called religious, hindu, tamil-brahmin, spiritual way is not the only commendable way to live.

The present problem has arisen because to me at least, it appears that the theist group resorts to ingenious ways of one-up-man-ship and scoring over the opposition, and, lastly, when no other way remained, they have picked upon the use of words such as "inner self" by atheists and by claiming that it is their property, so to say, they want to establish that by using such words, they unwittingly become theists. So, you may very well judge which side is trying to convert which.

It is my suggestion that unless an atheist asks a specific question, there is no need for the theist side to take note of any of their posts; if someone wants to reply let it be on the basis of arguments, points and specific facts — and not such unrelated items as use of words.

Fair enough but make sure everyone practices this.

Its not politically correct to slander all Theist as Immoral too.See what I mean?
Immorality can be found in anyone be it Theist or Atheist.

Well if a Theist can be immoral on grounds that God can bail him out so an Atheist can also be immoral on the grounds that a Lawyer can bail him out.

Options are always there for the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom, Shri Yamaka

What is the point again in contributing to humanity if the human race itself is going to perish someday? How different are you from a bubble or a wave that appears and disappears? Without the underlying ocean it does not make any sense? It is only sensible to assume that there is something eternal and all the transcience emerges from and merges into that eternal thing. That is the only way one can possibly make sense of our existence.

Shri Sravna,

Is it absolutely necessary for each individual to believe that there is something eternal and that all the transcience emerges from and merges into that eternal thing, thus making a sense of our existence? Is it possible, in any army, for each jawan to be told about the master plan being given shape to at the highest control room and all its minutest details? Can any jawan expect or insist that unless he is given such a detailed briefing, he won't pick up his gun?

I interpret the Gita verse—

सह यज्ञाः प्रजाः सृष्त्वा पुरॊवाचः प्रजापतिः ।
अनॆन प्रसविष्यध्वं ऎषवोऽस्त्विष्ट कामधुक् ॥ भ.गी.३. १०

saha yajñāḥ prajāḥ sṛṣtvā purovācaḥ prajāpatiḥ |
anena prasaviṣyadhvaṃ eṣavo:'stviṣṭa kāmadhuk || bha.gī.3. 10

as follows:
prajāpati, created, in the olden days, people along with "yajñas" or co-operative endeavours. He (prajāpati) said, "May you with the help of these "yajñas", (co-operative endeavours) prosper more and more; may these endeavours become the "kaamadhenu" for your desires."

Our role in this world need be nothing more than that of the ordinary jawan, who carries out the orders given to him by his superior without questioning about what the highest command has planned for. If you read sufficiently enough, you will discern that it was the brahminist interpretation that made the word " yajña" to mean the vedic fire-sacrifices, thus making the brahmins as the sole custodians of whatever prajāpati had bestowed to humanity as a whole in the beginning.

May I also point out that even according to the brahminical codes for the society, the Sudras were supposed to "obey" and not to ask any questions. For example, suppose a Shudra had tried to find out about the "eternal thing whence transcience of this world arose and into which it merges" so that he would be able to make some sense of his existence, he might have been killed if he happened to live in the period of Lord Rama's rule, or molten lead would have been poured into his ears and his tongue cut-off, if he lived in subsequent periods. So, this obsession with the "making sense out of life" is not a sine qua non for an ordinary sudra-type life which most of us - despite all our pretensions and claims to the contrary - are living today.

Let each one of us do our duty in this world afforded to us as a result of our efforts (like studies, job-hunting, getting passport/visa and so on)as true and sincere human beings in a cooperative endeavour in this world and leave out all the unnecessary baggae of religion out. We then will not need any "eternal something", absolute Reality, conditioned Reality and so on and so forth.

 

[sarang]

In TV program sometime back, I think in vijay tv, in a discussion on astrology, one DK panel participant was hooked on one single point - how can you say that both sun and say moon are grahas; even a child knows that sun is a star and moon is a planet. His argument was since the basic assumption is wrong all astrology is wrong and the usual believers are fools, and astrologers are cheating everybody. He wouldn't accept that import of western definitions to explain indic terms are not correct and indian meanings for these are different. Anyway he was happy that he was right since no one could convince and convert him and his rationalist credentials could not be shaken.

Out atheists are in a similar concrete pile foundation. They are free to hold their views and work hard to explain the rationality of their convictions; they don't do this. Instead they blame the theists as irrational and often end up in criticizing or making derogatory comments about the traditions, culture and practices of theists and the sub set groups, tambrams in our case.

My request to non-atheists is to put forward our views, and not to get into one to one argument or get lost in answering/retaliating all irrelevant points (though very tempting). That is counter productive and will only result more insults thrown at us.

The atheists are in an better position because they don't have to prove anything except trying to convince you that you are wrong. So it is better to ignore barbs and wise cracks and concentrate on stressing positives; no harm in coming down hard on them once in a while when they slip or are patently wrong.

 

[sangom]

Fair enough but make sure everyone practices this.

You see I cannot "make sure" that everyone practices. You may like to report violations to Shri Praveen.

Its not politically correct to slander all Theist as Immoral too.See what I mean?
Immorality can be found in anyone be it Theist or Atheist.

Well if a Theist can be immoral on grounds that God can bail him out so an Atheist can also be immoral on the grounds that a Lawyer can bail him out.

Options are always there for the good, the bad and the ugly.

I presume that the above comments are in relation to Shri Yamaka's post reproduced below:

"Here it says "Hindu Dharma is Supreme"... This is what I call creating Conflict and Mayhem...

From this one would ask what happens to Christian Dharma or Islamic Dharma?

The mayhem is unfolding before our eyes in India: Hindu Supremacists fighting the Islamists, who want to wound India by 1000 cuts a day!

Here it says, "Morality will be destroyed if Hinduism is destroyed".... Hinduism or any other religion is NOT a necessity to lead a MORAL and Ethical life. This mindless blather is a marketing propaganda for Theists!

In fact, Poojas, bhajans and Prayers in Hinduism perpetuate or encourage debauchery, immorality and intemperance.

Because, immoral people believe that after each prayer, pooja and bhajans, their God has pardoned them... then they start to behave the same immoral way the next day!

Be careful, what you wish for!"

I agree that only Shri Yamaka can have the final say on what exactly he meant, but, to me it appears that he was referring to those people who indulge in immoral acts but try to convince themselves (and the society) that they are "pure" despite all their moral weaknesses, because they have done pooja, bhajan and prayer to God. God being all-powerful, He should be considered able to bail out these self-hypnotizing devotees from any problem or "paapam" whatsoever.

I agree atheists too can be immoral and they may, or will, try to get bail through a Lawyer. But unlike God's case, where no crime is beyond God's bail, the poor mortal Lawyer cannot even think of bail in a non-bailable offence, of which there are many in most countries, I believe; same applies in the case of non-bailable arrest warrants. Above all a Lawyer will not be satisfied with a bhajan on him or praying to him tears in the eys or doing poojas with "patram, pushpam, phalam, thoyam, yo me bhaktya prayacchati"; Lawyer will demand hard cash and the atheist may therefore find that his ability to get bail gets increasingly eroded with time.

Decotees have infinite ability to get "self-bail" through God and hence they can continue their immoral acts ad infinitum. Even if no cash is left, "naamasamkeertanam" will do, in Kaliyuga, especially; ajaamila is standing testimony for the entire humanity!

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

What I was trying to say is there can be no purpose in a reality where everything is transient. Period. So it is not the question of worrying about purpose.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

What I was trying to say is there can be no purpose in a reality where everything is transient. Period. So it is not the question of worrying about purpose.

There are very many transient phenomena even in this observable world—falling meteors, lightnings, soap bubbles, rainbows, and so on. And you say the universe itself is transient, in the sense it has an end. Hence when we think about "purpose" of transient phenomena we have to accept that they also have some purpose; otherwise they arise as a corollary of some other purposeful phenomenon. You may like to think of alaata saanti - shape made by the fire-brand.

 

[sravna]

Shri Sangom,

A purpose of a transient reality doesn't make sense. Also the impact that is made in a transient reality doesn't last just as in the case of a dream. Do you really take dreams seriously as a reality? So is the nature of any transient reality.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Sravna,

The foundation of any belief can be strong unless one realizes it some way. Unless one realizes God and spirituality and does not reject the posibility of holding on inner spiritual self and leading a reghteous life coping with the changing environment and to be gragmatic, one can not accept and understand the concept of "Best of both Worlds".

Atheists points are very clear. They reject the relevence of GOD and spirituality in human life. Not just irrelevancy, but the point is that there is nothing called GOD and obviously spirituality does not make any sense. So the idea of focusing on utilizing the best of both the spiritual world and materialistic/scientific world would make no sense, in terms of Atheist.



Theists as well are very clear that one need not to be in spirituality to lead a righteous life with good deeds. The Karma and its outcome are relevant, meaningful and powerful for the soul to bear sweet or bitter fruits.


Generally Theists are into spirituality owing to strong belief in God and Karma Theory. We beleive in practicing spirituality in true sense (not as a tool to escape the bitter fruits of bad deeds, committed with clear consciousness for some sort of benefit) with the hope of purifying our soul/consciousness that mostly acts in this present life reacting to external forces. So that we don't end up committing bad karma out of greediness, jelousy, tit for tat to the extent of ruining others. etc..

Thus your points in line with your thread "Best of both Worlds" are apt and imparative for the theists to retain inner spiritual self in tact while living this life pragmatically amids various avaliable options and complex humans. This inner spiritual self will better lead we theists under each challenging situations and would help us work towards good karma, purifying our soul. As such the external revelation of self (not harming onself and the other) to be in harmony in demanding situation and be pragmatic would be a sort of hypocritical approach for the better.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

There are two , vyavariha and paaramaarthika sathyam. Theists believe in both
while atheists reject paaramaarthika. Whether one rejects it or not, he ultimately
merges with Brahman if not in this birth , at least in some other birth. The time
factor is the only difference.

Afterall, you can't say atheists live a life full of strife,quarrel and sorrow. They may just do their duty without accepting the concept of God because HE is not visible to the naked eye. For all you know, they may reach the destination earlier than theists. We may not know where Mr.X will be in his next birth or where we will be in our next birth.

 

[C RAVI]

There are two , vyavariha and paaramaarthika sathyam. Theists believe in both
while atheists reject paaramaarthika. Whether one rejects it or not, he ultimately
merges with Brahman if not in this birth , at least in some other birth. The time
factor is the only difference.

Afterall, you can't say atheists live a life full of strife,quarrel and sorrow. They may just do their duty without accepting the concept of God because HE is not visible to the naked eye. For all you know, they may reach the destination earlier than theists. We may not know where Mr.X will be in his next birth or where we will be in our next birth.

Well said Sri N.R.Ranganathan


It's all one wants or don't want as driving / guiding force. A person who wants and follows are many who can realize it's validity. A person who don't want and don't follow though do not realize has nothing to do with his/her deeds. The deeds and its impacts will take place in its own order.

Within no time I can decide to reject the conept of God and spritiuality but my individuality would no way gonna make me different as long a I believe in Karma impacts (as you sow so you reap). Many Atheist believe that theist can be righteous and moral only with their belief on GOD. Many atheist fail to realize that many theist are into spirituality to revere and glorify/honor GOD as well, being mesmerized by the qualities of divinity.

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom,

A purpose of a transient reality doesn't make sense. Also the impact that is made in a transient reality doesn't last just as in the case of a dream. Do you really take dreams seriously as a reality? So is the nature of any transient reality.

Dear Shri Sravna,

When you use the word "last" it implies that the said phenomenon does not continue to exist for a long time. Now, time is a relative phenomenon and what appears as "transient" to one observer in the space-time continuum may be eons for another observer. I suppose you will have to agree with this in view of the concept of a "brahma dina" and so on.

My knowledge is that Ramanujacharya held that even dreams are real in their own way; that was one point in which he differed from Sankara. (Shri Nara may kindly correct me if I am wrong.) In my own small way, people do "act" on the basis of their emotions in a dream; many people scream due to fear evoked during their dreams, some laugh, some utter long parts of their conversations incoherently, and so on. Therefore, dreams are real. And many things in real life become dream - like desire to become a Bill Gates or Obama.

Therefore, there is reality in transient phenomena and there is a purpose in all of them. A small electric shock of a fraction of a second can give the lasting effect of death; a sufficiently high dose of radiation can also give a lasting effect - though bad.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

When you use the word "last" it implies that the said phenomenon does not continue to exist for a long time. Now, time is a relative phenomenon and what appears as "transient" to one observer in the space-time continuum may be eons for another observer. I suppose you will have to agree with this in view of the concept of a "brahma dina" and so on.

My knowledge is that Ramanujacharya held that even dreams are real in their own way; that was one point in which he differed from Sankara. (Shri Nara may kindly correct me if I am wrong.) In my own small way, people do "act" on the basis of their emotions in a dream; many people scream due to fear evoked during their dreams, some laugh, some utter long parts of their conversations incoherently, and so on. Therefore, dreams are real. And many things in real life become dream - like desire to become a Bill Gates or Obama.

Therefore, there is reality in transient phenomena and there is a purpose in all of them. A small electric shock of a fraction of a second can give the lasting effect of death; a sufficiently high dose of radiation can also give a lasting effect - though bad.

Your arguments don't sound convincing.

My point is when the reality is gone just like universe coming to an end, all that happened whether in dreams or otherwise is nothing more than a bubble emerging and bursting.

 

[renuka]

You see I cannot "make sure" that everyone practices. You may like to report violations to Shri Praveen.



I presume that the above comments are in relation to Shri Yamaka's post reproduced below:

"Here it says "Hindu Dharma is Supreme"... This is what I call creating Conflict and Mayhem...

From this one would ask what happens to Christian Dharma or Islamic Dharma?

The mayhem is unfolding before our eyes in India: Hindu Supremacists fighting the Islamists, who want to wound India by 1000 cuts a day!

Here it says, "Morality will be destroyed if Hinduism is destroyed".... Hinduism or any other religion is NOT a necessity to lead a MORAL and Ethical life. This mindless blather is a marketing propaganda for Theists!

In fact, Poojas, bhajans and Prayers in Hinduism perpetuate or encourage debauchery, immorality and intemperance.

Because, immoral people believe that after each prayer, pooja and bhajans, their God has pardoned them... then they start to behave the same immoral way the next day!

Be careful, what you wish for!"

I agree that only Shri Yamaka can have the final say on what exactly he meant, but, to me it appears that he was referring to those people who indulge in immoral acts but try to convince themselves (and the society) that they are "pure" despite all their moral weaknesses, because they have done pooja, bhajan and prayer to God. God being all-powerful, He should be considered able to bail out these self-hypnotizing devotees from any problem or "paapam" whatsoever.

I agree atheists too can be immoral and they may, or will, try to get bail through a Lawyer. But unlike God's case, where no crime is beyond God's bail, the poor mortal Lawyer cannot even think of bail in a non-bailable offence, of which there are many in most countries, I believe; same applies in the case of non-bailable arrest warrants. Above all a Lawyer will not be satisfied with a bhajan on him or praying to him tears in the eys or doing poojas with "patram, pushpam, phalam, thoyam, yo me bhaktya prayacchati"; Lawyer will demand hard cash and the atheist may therefore find that his ability to get bail gets increasingly eroded with time.

Decotees have infinite ability to get "self-bail" through God and hence they can continue their immoral acts ad infinitum. Even if no cash is left, "naamasamkeertanam" will do, in Kaliyuga, especially; ajaamila is standing testimony for the entire humanity!

Dear Sangom,

You wrote :

Decotees have infinite ability to get "self-bail" through God and hence they can continue their immoral acts ad infinitum. Even if no cash is left, "naamasamkeertanam" will do, in Kaliyuga, especially; ajaamila is standing testimony for the entire humanity!

Ajaamila syndrome as I call it...so "Vaishanavas" before and after do have the last word huh??

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Sangom, Shri Yamaka

What is the point again in contributing to humanity if the human race itself is going to perish someday? How different are you from a bubble or a wave that appears and disappears? Without the underlying ocean it does not make any sense? It is only sensible to assume that there is something eternal and all the transcience emerges from and merges into that eternal thing. That is the only way one can possibly make sense of our existence.

Dear Sravna:

What makes you think that "the human race itself is going to perish someday?".

As an eternal optimist, I don't think the human race will perish at all. Even if your God wills! Lol.

Waves and bubbles appear and disappear according to the laws of physics and chemistry (like surface tension, and the interface of water and air etc)...

If you assume that the underlying ocean "is your God", that's your FANTASY... an ILLUSION.

I don't subscribe to what you believe as "Eternal" The God, as described in the Holy Books of Koran, Bible or Vedas.

I believe that Sun will be the Eternal Source of Energy, and Nature will be our Eternal Thing... all living being including humans will survive eternally...

I don't need to subscribe to any TRADITION, FEAR or Superstition.

Peace.