animal sacrifices by brahmins

[Eastern Mind]

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Sorry eastern mind, i disagree.

Athletes need a lot of protein to help replace, build or repair worn out tissue or muscle: http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/caryn/protein.html

Soccer / hockey players eat carbs before a match, bcoz it helps give them a burst of energy. For the same reason, athletes also consume energy drinks to help sustain energy levels during a match or training session.

And yep, i also disagree with apunathan that veggie food results in satwik life. Wonder what makes veggie ppl as much corrupt as non-veggie ppl....

Please do a search on 'famous vegetarian athletes. Here is one list. Note that is is vegan, not just vegetarian. I won't discuss this any further.

Vegan unless otherwise noted:
Carl Lewis (Track and field )
Scott Jurek (Ultramarathon athlete)
Brendan Brazier (Ironman triathlete)
Kenneth Williams (Bodybuilder)
Prince Fielder (Major League Baseball player)
Tony Gonzalez (Baseball player)
Jonathan Daniel (Major League Baseball relief pitcher)
Edwin Moses (track and field, vegetarian)
Pat Neshek (Baseball player)
Mac Danzig (Mixed martial arts fighter )

You have the right to disagree, but please note that you're not just disagreeing with me, but a wide range of scientific research.

Then again maybe I'm misinterpreting, and you're only disagreeeing to my comments about carbs and protein, not about the meat. If so, I apologise in advance.

Aum Namasivaya

 

[RVR]

Sri Easternmind ji,

I am really surprised to see a big list of leading vegetarian athletes. Thanks for your valuable information

All the best

 

[anandb]

Dear Eastern Mind

Please do a search on 'famous vegetarian athletes. Here is one list. Note that is is vegan, not just vegetarian. I won't discuss this any further.

Vegan unless otherwise noted:
Carl Lewis (Track and field )
Scott Jurek (Ultramarathon athlete)
Brendan Brazier (Ironman triathlete)
Kenneth Williams (Bodybuilder)
Prince Fielder (Major League Baseball player)
Tony Gonzalez (Baseball player)
Jonathan Daniel (Major League Baseball relief pitcher)
Edwin Moses (track and field, vegetarian)
Pat Neshek (Baseball player)
Mac Danzig (Mixed martial arts fighter )

You have the right to disagree, but please note that you're not just disagreeing with me, but a wide range of scientific research.

Then again maybe I'm misinterpreting, and you're only disagreeeing to my comments about carbs and protein, not about the meat. If so, I apologise in advance.

Aum Namasivaya

You are bang on. Adding to this list a few more names.

The famed bodybuilder, Andreas Cahling is also vegan.
Ditto for former Mr. USA and Mr. America, Jim Morris. (Also see YouTube video from 2007 of Morris, now 72, who is still buff as ever and who still swears by his vegan diet.)
Ruth Heidrich, a vegan Ironman triathlete and marathon runner has racked up more than 700 first-place trophies and set several performance records. She was also named One of the 10 Fittest Women in North America.

Source: Humans are natural plant-eaters -- in-depth article

I request everyone to read the above link which shatters quite a few notions. I had mentioned this in another thread as well.

Also read this link "How to Win an argument with a Meat-eater"
International Vegetarian Union - How to Win an Argument with a Meat Eater. Its got hardcore statistical evidence.

 

[happyhindu]

Anand and Eastern Mind,

I do not, for once, disagree that veggie diet is indeed the healthiest of all diets.

Research papers can be found both ways, coz research is all about swinging and exploring both ways. Its about take your pick - its like whether you want coffee to be considered harmful or having health benefits.

I agree with everything that the hyperlink on International Vegetarian Union says.

However, on a general basis there are only 2 things i disagree with:

a) That hinduism promotes veggie diet as something scripturally sanctioned:
To me, a chunk of the scriptures were only interpreted as such. My take is, hinduism accomodates ppl of all dietary practices.

b) That satwik qualities are promoted by a veggie diet:
My take is, satwik qualities can exist in a person irrespective of veggie or non-veggie diet.

Regards.

 

[kunjuppu]

You are bang on. Adding to this list a few more names.

The famed bodybuilder, Andreas Cahling is also vegan.
Ditto for former Mr. USA and Mr. America, Jim Morris. (Also see YouTube video from 2007 of Morris, now 72, who is still buff as ever and who still swears by his vegan diet.)
Ruth Heidrich, a vegan Ironman triathlete and marathon runner has racked up more than 700 first-place trophies and set several performance records. She was also named One of the 10 Fittest Women in North America.

Source: Humans are natural plant-eaters -- in-depth article

I request everyone to read the above link which shatters quite a few notions. I had mentioned this in another thread as well.

Also read this link "How to Win an argument with a Meat-eater"
International Vegetarian Union - How to Win an Argument with a Meat Eater. Its got hardcore statistical evidence.

ok, but please note, that these are only a miniscule number of all athletes.

the general impression is that only meat provides the proteins to build a strong body (apart from steroids..hee hee).

we now have an arguement, that only can be veggie and still be mr. universe or mr. tamilbrahminsforum

 

[Eastern Mind]

the general impression is that only meat provides the proteins to build a strong body (apart from steroids..hee hee).

Yes that is the general impression. Fifty years back the general impression was that smoking was good for you. Look where that got us. The tobacco industry has been successfully sued several times over.

One thing that is missing here is the power of government lobbyists and advertising. I'm not sure how India operates, but here in Canada, both the meat and dairy industries have powerful lobby groups who work for the industry with government officials. Some also make financial contributions. I'll give you an example. Here in Canada the health department formed a committee to take a look at the Canada Food Guide, which is a document used mostly in schools and the medical profession to educate people in a quick simple way about nutrition.

There were some fairly large changes that were recommended by the scientists and nutritionists, most of which were aimed at reducing meat consumption, and the portion recommendations. Guess what? The meat and dairy industries got wind of it, and sent out their lobbyists, and propaganda experts, seeking to withdraw the changes. They were mostly successful, and the work of the committee paid for by the taxpayers by and large went down the drain.

What I'm talking about here is the political side of food. Of course the meat industry wants you to think its healthy. This is really no different than the puncture shop guy in India going out at night and throwing nails on nearby streets, to keep his business going. So I urge everyone to read between the lines. Don't trust what your government tells you.

Aum Namasivaya

 

[anandb]

HHji

Anand and Eastern Mind,

I do not, for once, disagree that veggie diet is indeed the healthiest of all diets.

Research papers can be found both ways, coz research is all about swinging and exploring both ways. Its about take your pick - its like whether you want coffee to be considered harmful or having health benefits.

I agree with everything that the hyperlink on International Vegetarian Union says.

However, on a general basis there are only 2 things i disagree with:

a) That hinduism promotes veggie diet as something scripturally sanctioned:
To me, a chunk of the scriptures were only interpreted as such. My take is, hinduism accomodates ppl of all dietary practices.

b) That satwik qualities are promoted by a veggie diet:
My take is, satwik qualities can exist in a person irrespective of veggie or non-veggie diet.

Regards.

a.) When Hinduism talks about Varna where a couple of them are allowed to eat meat, goes without saying that the Scriptures did allow meat eating by them. But the general tone of the Scriptures is ahimsa and it was also expected that if a person wants to gravitate towards understanding the Brahman meat eating should be shunned and given up.
b.) Kind of tied with my previous comment. Diet is ONE of the contributing factors to satwik or non-satwik quality. It has been scientifically proven that what we consume has a direct impact on our mental state. Agreed a murderer could be a vegetarian by choice. But again if one has to find the true purpose of one's existence and move up the spiritual ladder, we find essentially meat eating is shunned. Examples abound even among true gurus. As far as I know none of them eat meat. Hatha Yoga clearly states that if one were to practice yoga meat eating has to be given up at some stage. I personally know meat eaters who took to yoga in a big way and made a transition to being vegetarians and were not even aware of the transition as it was quite subtle.

 

[RVR]

Sri Esternmind ji

What I'm talking about here is the political side of food. Of course the meat industry wants you to think its healthy. This is really no different than the puncture shop guy in India going out at night and throwing nails on nearby streets, to keep his business going. So I urge everyone to read between the lines. Don't trust what your government tells you.

Politics in India is also no different. Liquor lobby here is all powerful. They control politicians and bureaucrats. Chief Justice of Karnataka Highcourt has amazed enormous wealth (only thing is he is foolish enough to get caught). Police is also highly corrupt. We don't know where we are going.

All the best

 

[Eastern Mind]

Politics in India is also no different. Liquor lobby here is all powerful. They control politicians and bureaucrats. Chief Justice of Karnataka Highcourt has amazed enormous wealth (only thing is he is foolish enough to get caught). Police is also highly corrupt. We don't know where we are going.

All the best

That's what I kind of figured, but thanks for confirming it. So its kind of the blind leading the blind, then. Fortunately some of us can see through all that with a bit of critical thinking.

The booze lobby here is huge also. Big problem.

Aum Namasivaya

 

[KRS]

It has been well researched and documented that the nutrients required by humans can be had with both vegetarian and vegan foods. However, on the same foot, it can be acheived by eating a variety of non vegetarian food.

The problems occur when one is not careful with all food lifestyles.

If I were a Vegan, I would worry about getting the RDA of protein(especially being aware of the combinations of grains, legumes and nuts to get 'complete' proteins) and B12 vitamin.

If I were a vegetarian, I would worry about again getting the RDA of protein and B12 vitamin.

Usually, the problem one has to be careful of when eating both Vegan and Vegetarian foods - that one does not take too much of carbohydrates with high glycemic indexes. This usually leads to Diabetes, as it is widely seen in our TB community.

For a non vegetarian though the problem is perhaps more complex - while they easily get all the nutrients, they tend to consume much more protein than what the body needs, because of the easy availability of meat/fish etc. Too much intake of protein, over time taxes the kidneys and then other complexities enter in to the picture. Also, it has been shown that too much in take of red meat creates other problems associated with cholesterol through fat. Also, just because one is non-vegetarian, it does not necassarily follow that they won't contract diabetes - they can through consuming high glycemic carbohydrates in large quantities.

So, this is why some communities around the globe live markedly longer than others, most notably the Mediterranen people whose food culture involves eating a variety of meat, but limiting red meat, along with legumes, pulses, nuts, vegetables and fruits. They also consume a moderate amount of red wine. One can also add the Japanese eating habits to this type of culture.

Community that is markedly affected by eating too much red meat and contracting associated diseases is the Anglo Saxon culture of Britain.

Most of the non vegetarian cultures around the world will continue on, because food is a part and parcel of a culture. It will not be given up easily. It is like religion!

Regards,
KRS

 

[akura]

living long

Once a journalist wanted to interview a man who completed hundred
years .The interview was taken at the residence of the Centenarian.

Journalist.. "How is that you are so healthy living 100 years ?"

Centenarian ," I never eat meat , I am a strict vegetarian, no meat,
no alcohol , no smoking , don't go to brothels ..etc ".

Suddenly there was lot of noise from the upstairs of the house.

Journalist, "What is this, so much noise from upstairs ?"

Centenarian .. "That is my father , he has all habits .. drinking, smoking meat eating and now he is enjoying his time with women of all sorts ,that is the noise all about ."

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Anand,

a.) When Hinduism talks about Varna where a couple of them are allowed to eat meat, goes without saying that the Scriptures did allow meat eating by them. But the general tone of the Scriptures is ahimsa and it was also expected that if a person wants to gravitate towards understanding the Brahman meat eating should be shunned and given up.

Not sure about varnas, lets let go of it in this matter... However, the general tone of the scriptures being ahimsa is debatable. As mentioned before vedic rituals involved animal sacrifice and included meat consumption; and rishis too accepted anything given in bhiksha.

b.) Kind of tied with my previous comment. Diet is ONE of the contributing factors to satwik or non-satwik quality. It has been scientifically proven that what we consume has a direct impact on our mental state. Agreed a murderer could be a vegetarian by choice. But again if one has to find the true purpose of one's existence and move up the spiritual ladder, we find essentially meat eating is shunned. Examples abound even among true gurus. As far as I know none of them eat meat. Hatha Yoga clearly states that if one were to practice yoga meat eating has to be given up at some stage. I personally know meat eaters who took to yoga in a big way and made a transition to being vegetarians and were not even aware of the transition as it was quite subtle.

There are variations in practices amongst various yogi sects. while a section also shuns veggie food, another section shuns everything but water. Agree with you that what we consume has an impact on our mental state. Consuming too much of veggie food, esp sweets or high carb diet, does no good to the health either. To me its all about moderation.

 

[renuka]

isnt animal sacrifice supposed to mean sacrificing our animal qualities at the divine altar and cutting all delusions caused by Maya with the knife of the intellect sharpened by constant Sadhana.

we at times should not take every word literally, it might have a hidden meaning which needs further understanding.
"pashu" stands for animals including man.
Hence Lord Shiva is called Pashupathi.

Lord Buddha had come to set right the deviant practice and wrong intepratation of the Vedas.
Vegetarianism isnt the only aspect of Ahimsa.
Ahimsa means not hurting any living entity by thought, word and deed.
Vegetarianism is only a part of it.
I on my own accord am a pure vegetarian and do not use leather products or even wear silk sarees because modern silk production involves the boiling of the cocoon of the silk worm which contains a very much alive but metamorphosing pupa and imagine the amount of lifes it takes to make a silk saree.
loss of lifes takes place even when we eat vegetables but at least since there is no well defined Central Nervous System acute pain is not fully or really felt.(plants do have tactile response)
loss of lifes also takes place during deforestation, taking antibiotics, walking on unseen insects etc....list can go on but at least we should try to refrain from causing loss of life knowingly.

like in a certain country buffalo is sacrificed during durga pooja.
i guess they are just repeating the whole durga devi mahishasura episode on their own accord.
i'll give you another example of misinterpratation:
did Ravana really have Ten Heads.
He was called so because he was the Master of the 4 Vedas and the 6 Shashtras.

by the way can anyone tell me what was Ravana's actual name.
Ravana was given to him when he was supposed to be the cause of people screaming/wailing whenever he came or another version says he was shouting so loud when he was pinned down by Lord Shiva.
his other name is Paulastya is a common name he shared with his brothers since they were sons of Sage Pulastya.
kindly give a feedback

 

[DURGADASAN]

Hi ppl,

In India in olden times we have heard that Brahmins used to have meat, Agastya for one (remember the Ilhanan, Vathapi story).

Sir,

1. Agasthya ate vathapi, only in the form of mango (Sage Agasthya is not a cannibal).
2. Yagna karthas ate meat that time after performing yagas. That is not a kinda non-vegeterianism. Don't degrade ourselves.

Please go through the verses of Kanchi Paramacharya
http://www.kamakoti.org/tamil/kural39.htm
Tamil Content : kamakoti.org:
in Deivathin kural Part 2. He has clearly explained each and everything. I thought of posted them here. But some font mismatch is not allowing me. Anyhow, it is in that link.

Pranams

 

[RVR]

Paramacharyal's explanation

Very good Durga,.

I fully read Paramacharyal explanation on animal sacrifice.

People are misguided by wrong information.

Thank you for bringing the right perspective of the whole issue.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Horse sacrifice (ashvamedha), one of the sacrifices (involving animals): Ashvamedha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interpretations changed from the puranic period onwards. However, details of how the actual ritual was performed is available.

Please refer from page 103 to page 245 in the book "Heat and sacrifice in the Vedas" by Uma Marina Vesc. It provides verses with near complete details of how various pasuyajnas or animal sacrifices were done.

The book "Srauta sacrifice in the Atharva-Veda" by BS Mehra is another interesting read.

 

[anandb]

Shri. Durgadasan,

Thanks very much for this link from Kamakoti.org. I had read the English translation of this but nothing like reading it in Tamil. Apparently some of this was missed out in the English. thanks again.