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After Death - What?

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Dear Shri Subramanian,

I certainly agree that the similarities are too overwhelming to just to ignore them as mere coincidences. But what about your Haaji friend? Are you able to convince him, at least to the extent, that all these cannot be just coincidences and there should be some thing more to it?
 
Dear Shri.CLN ji,

Apropos to the massacre of millions of Jews in Gas Chamber by Adof Hitler (Holocuast), the Jews in the world got united and formed their own land of Israel (Isara El - Abode of God) on 14th May 1948.

Pranaam.

B.Subramanian.
 
Dear Shri.CLN ji,

As you know very well, and as I have experienced during my stay for more than 2 decades in Tamilnadu, it is not easy to convince a NB (Dravidar Kazhaga Hindu) let alone a Muslim about the past and ancient history of Sanaathana Dharma.

In fact our Hindus are our own enemies. Though they follow very holistic Hindu rituals at home (wearing yellow cloth over their shoulders), they talk of casteless sovereign SECULAR country called India. Like Karunaidhi (Since he is a Aryan hater and Sanskrit hater, I would prefer to call him "ARUTCHELVAM - meaning Karuna- Arul (in Tamil) and Nidhi - Chelvam (in Tamil).

More to come.

Pranaam.

B.Subramanian.
 
Dear Shri.CLN ji,

As I am a regular practicer of Yogasana (Pathanajli Yoga Shasthra), I recite Shri Rudram in Vajraasanam (a variant kind of kneeled form), which is next to Padmaasanam in kindling the Kundalini Shathi and I know through my personal experience that one becomes very violent when facing inimical situations.

Since the Christians and Muslims have a habit of praying in the kneeled form, their patience or tolerance is very low. Moreover the Kattus (the circumsized entities) have a very low tolerance as compared to any other human on this earth, hence it is very difficult to reason with them.

Moreover during the Haj Pilgrimage, the pilgrims are taught about the words of Koran, which says that all non-believers of Allah (Kafirs) have no right to live on this earth and either they should be converted to embrace Islam or should be removed from this Earth.

So where is the chance of reasoning with such entities?

Pranaam.

B.Subramanian.
 
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Dear Shri.CLN ji,

Apropos to the massacre of millions of Jews in Gas Chamber by Adof Hitler (Holocuast), the Jews in the world got united and formed their own land of Israel (Isara El - Abode of God) on 14th May 1948.

Pranaam.

B.Subramanian.

BSubra,

i am not sure that you have 'aproposed' among the vilest of human massacres.

in the online dictionary, apropos is defined as 'fitting; at the right time; to the purpose; opportunely'. i am quite sure you did not realize the gravity of your statement.

perhaps the word 'apropos' was chosen in error on your part?

thank you.
 
Dear Shri Subramanian,
As you have chosen to write 'apropos to', it serves the purpose of only being an adjective here and means exactly what Shri kunjuppu has pointed out. The word 'apropos' nowadays is rarely used and is best left out to remain in the dictionary safely! :)
 
Dear Shri.CLN ji,

Well, Thanks.

By the way, do you receive the emails I send to your personal email address. I hope you like them.

Pranaam.

B.Subramanian.
 
Dear Shri Subramanian,

Not only did I receive your mails (three so far, I think), but one of them as well happens to be an "invitation to open a gmail account" sent to my gmail account itself! ;) Thanks for your 'suggestion', but I have no plan to open another gmail account (with a different id, of course) now!!

Your first mail containing an article likening a nuclear plant to a "shiva linga" is interesting, but I had only skimmed through it and I will read it again more carefully when I get some time for it. I am struck here by the strong resemblance of that interpretation to a 4-year old kid who gets a present of a toy car / bus / train / aeroplane, thrilled and thoroughly enjoying it, moving about pretending to be driving a real car / bus / train / aeroplane, as the case may be, making appropriate sounds from his mouth, for effect!

In another mail you have been kind enough to send me several books on 'Advaitha' in pdf format. I will try reading them one by one, but over a period of time.

Regards.

C. Lakshminarayanan
 
Dear C. Lakshminarayanan ji,

I too do not have any plan to make you open another gmail account, for that matter.
In my work About the Universe, and Maker of the Universe, which I wrote in 2004, I had likened all the 5 interactions which came after the Big Bang, in the sequence Strong Nuclear, Electromagnetic, Gravitational, Weak Nuclear and Electro Weak Interactions, to our Lords. Hope you would have enjoyed it. In it I had compared Lord Shiva to Weak Nuclear (for different reason), but when I read the post comparing Shiva Linga to a Calandria, I was stunned. The same thought emerging to different people across the Globe.

Pranaam.

B.Subramanian.
 
suba42:I had likened all the 5 interactions which came after the Big Bang, in the sequence Strong Nuclear, Electromagnetic, Gravitational, Weak Nuclear and Electro Weak Interactions, to our Lords. Hope you would have enjoyed it. In it I had compared Lord Shiva to Weak Nuclear (for different reason), but when I read the post comparing Shiva Linga to a Calandria, I was stunned. The same thought emerging to different people across the Globe.

I have not gone through your article in detail yet as it is some what longish and I couldn't get to reading it fully. But I remember seeing the other article written by some one else likening the dome in the nuclear plant to a shiva linga. It is possible for some other highly imaginative persons to come up with many other objects shaped like a cylinder with a flat base and a hemispherical top, which is essentially the 'geometry' of a 'lingam', though we find some variations of this general shape in different 'shiva lingas' in different shrines. I have already expressed what I feel about that comparison in my post #159 itself. I feel the comparison of a contraption with intricate working parts inside, like the Calandria, on the basis of the mere similarity in shape, to an object which is essentially a solid piece of stone (from a purely materialistic point of view) is as childish as the four-year old's behaviour I have pointed out in my post. Once that 'piece of stone' is sanctified through prescribed 'Aagama' rituals and regular poojas are conducted, even though the shape still remains the same and is still sitting in front of him, a true devotee is not conscious of the material or its shape any longer. Only the Saannidhyam fills his mind. You are perhaps aware of the famous saying "Kallaikkandaal Naayaikkanom, Naayaikkandaal Kallaikkakanom". No real Shiva Bhaktha can think of the Lingam in the temple as a piece of stone of a particular shape. To him, it is the Lord Parameshwara Himself. So, I feel such comparisons, where the 'shape factor' gets highlighted, are not really adding any 'value' or 'greatness' to either Shiva or His devotees, but on the contrary, they only expose the hollowness of the persons who give any credence to such idle comparisons.

An exception is only in such cases where the devotion is so strong that the sight of the very lingam shape in any thing, not just only the lingam in a Shiva temple, mind you, immediately transports the devotee to the Sannidhyam. Here I recall a story I once read about a young boy who was so devoted to Shiva that he had absolutely no interest in any worldly matters and was always in a state of pious rapture. His parents, who were much worried about him, decided to get a beautiful maiden married to him, hoping that her charms would be powerful enough to bring him back to worldly matters. The boy, not really caring, or even realizing what was actually happening to him, went along with the marriage, but with his mind totally with Shiva only. On the night of the marriage, the young couple were sent to their 'first night' room, with the girl having been adequately instructed to use all her considerable charms to seduce him. Accordingly, after the preliminary sequence of falling at his feet, serving him milk, sweet dishes etc., she unwrapped herself from her attire, exposing her mammaries, and gently drew his hands towards her and placed them on her nipples. What 'our hero' saw in front was not the luring beauty of a young and beautiful woman but only two shiva lingams ! The story goes that he immediately folded his hands and started praying to Lord Shiva he saw in front! Such a liberated soul perhaps would have really seen Shiva in any lingam shape, I concede, be it a calandria in a nuclear plant, or even the mere bald head of an ordinary human being, whoever it is!

Now that you have mentioned yourself about your comparison of different natural forces to different gods, do you have any 'valid reasons'' for such an 'allotment' or 'analogy' of different forces to different Gods, or, is it based purely on your 'intuition', so to say?

PS: I think the Forum has provided an opportunity to all members to use a 'nick name' in the 'public' exchanges for some valid reasons. So, I feel we should all stick to it, though I have been myself 'guilty' some times of not strictly adhering to the use of the nick name only to address others till now, I have decided to observe this discipline now onwards strictly.
 
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I am a novice to this group. I dont have much knowledge about the scriptures and vedic rules but I have been performing annual ceremony of my grandfather (mothers father)Since I was three as I do not have a mama. I have been performing my fathers ceremony including the amavsya tharpanam since death in 1989 and later my grandmother also died and I have been performing her annual ceremony. I am very sincere in doing this regularly.I am not sure as to what is going to happen to me or my forefathers because of these deeds. We go by the belief system and each one has his own belief system and we have no rights to question indivduals belief system. I beleive in god and have not seen him in physical form but I have seen my father , Grandfather and grandmother and I am following our custom of remembering them. There may different ways one can show his respect for the departed souls.
Hope you all can tell me more.
 
Dear Shri B. Suresh Kumar,

More than the knowledge aspect, it is the sincerity of purpose one has in mind that vouches satisfaction to him in any undertaking. That way, I am sure you are doing very fine. As the person who started this thread, I was also wracked by several questions arising in my mind. I think you will benefit much if you have the patience to go through the postings in this thread right from post#1. It is possible that you may feel some of the posts either not to your liking or at least not relevant. Those you may skip and go further. You will certainly find that we have in this Forum a good number of very knowledgeable and well-meaning people who present their thoughts and opinions sincerely, honestly and boldly, though we also have a few who lack civility (to the extent required in a public Forum) or sense of purpose other than their desire to just butt in.

Happy and fruitful browsing!
 
Dear Shri.CLN ji.

The Five Basic Interactions:
The Nirguna Parabrahman (Grand Unified Force which is of a point source of infinite energy) gives rise to Strong Nuclear Force at 10^-35 seconds from the time of Big Bang. This Strong Nuclear Interaction is instrumental in formation of Six Quarks viz. Top, Bottom, Up, Down, Charm and Strange quarks and gluon which connects all quarks. These Quarks have six Anti Quarks and these twelve Quarks & Anti Quarks together with gluons create the Hadrons (Protons & Neutrons) and Leptons (Electrons, Mesons viz. Pi Mesons, Mu Mesons, and Tau Mesons). Hence this Strong Nuclear Interaction is likened to Lord Ganapathi, and Ganapathi is the first to come and is propitiated first in any pooja. Lord Ganapathi is also called Moolaadhaara Moorthi (it means basic building block and also represents the First Chakra - Moolaadhaara Chakra (at the centre point between urinal and stool outlets), of the Six Chakraas of Raaja Yoga, in a human body.


This Strong Nuclear Interaction gives rise to Electromagnetic Interaction by formation of atoms, and molecules, which is Lord Vishnu (The Supreme God). It is also called Naaraayana (Naha – not, Raha – only here, Yanaha – exists). Naarayana Suktham says “Yascha Kinchith Jagathsarvam Drushyathe, Shrooyathe Apiva, Antha bahischa thath sarvam, vyaapya naarayana sthithaha” – The Naaraayana is found inside and outside every part of the Universe. Hence it is Omnipresent , Ubiquitous. It is found that even in deep space consists of many stray electrons. This is instrumental in normal physical, chemical and electromagnetic properties of the Universe.
The Electromagnetic Interaction gives rise to Gravitational Interaction. There are notes that the formation of zygote from sperm and ovum is not possible in Zero or Micro Gravity condition. Hence Gravity is required for birth of any organism. It is also found that Gravitational Interaction is an outcome of Electromagnetic Theory. Similarly in our religious mythology, it is said that Lord Bramma evolved rom the Navel (Naabhi) of Vishnu. That is Gravitational Interaction is an outcome of Electromagnetic Interaction, which is physically true.
Then came Weak Nuclear Interaction, as a result of Gravitational Interaction. On formation of atoms, it is found that atoms of higher atomic number and mass number decay and break into two smaller atoms. Every element has some percentage of unstable- radioactive isotopes. Like in Element Hydrogen, there is 98% of Protium comprising of One Proton in the Nucleus and one electron, whose presence of 98% in normal hydrogen. 2% of Deuterium (with one proton and one electron in the nucleus), and .08% of Tritium (with one proton and two neutrons in the nucleus, this the Neutron / Proton Ration is more than 1, hence the said isotope is radioactive. Thus we have some miniscule % of radioactive isotopes present for each element).
This is true for Carbon, Atomic No.6, it could be 6C12, or 6C13, which is a radioactive isotope of Carbon, (and all other elements). By taking them into our body, our body is affected by the nuclear isotopes of each element which results in decay of any part or full body, which result invariably in death of the person.
Thus Weak Nuclear Interaction, denotes the death of a person, This is the Lord Shiva who is the Destroyer, according to our Vedic Hymns.
Then comes, Electro-weak Interaction, which is a combination of Electromagnetic Interaction and Weak Nuclear Interaction, which is invariably Lord Hari Hara who is the offspring of Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva, which is found prevalent in Nuclear Bombs.
Thus it has been proven beyond doubt that the five basic interactions, denote five Lords of The Five Basic Interactions.

Pranaam.
 
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Dear Shri suba42 ji,

In reply to my query at the end of post #161 whether you have any valid reasons for your likening different natural interactive forces to different Gods of Sanaathna Dharma or you are purely basing your arguments on 'intuition', you have elaborated your ideas in post #165. I get the feeling that you are picking up bits and pieces of information here and there and you contrive to fit them into your pet theory of likening them to some Gods of your choice while leaving the others (for later addition, perhaps, if some more forces are detected in future!).

According to you, the very first force to emerge, viz., 'strong nuclear interaction force' is Ganapathy, because he is propitiated by Hindus in the beginning of any undertaking. That make him the very first God, a 'senior' to every one else, but the Puranas speak of him as Parvathy's creation, which should make him much junior to the Trinity and their consorts!

I am not sure on what experimental findings you are basing your conclusions like "the Electromagnetic Interaction gives rise to Gravitational Interaction" to gain support for your idea that Brahmma came from the naabhikamalam of Vishnu, or, "Weak Nuclear Interaction, denotes the death of a person" to establish that it is nothing but Shiva. I must admit that my Physics is a little rusty, now that I am no more a practising teacher on the subject! Perhaps Shri KRS Sir and some other members can add value here.

Your argument that if the Neutron / Proton Ratio is more than one, the said isotope has radioactivity, citing the tritium example, is somewhat mis-leading. It leads to to an inescapable conclusion that all isotopes in which the neutron number in their nuclei is more than the proton number are radio-active, which is NOT the case. By such shaky arguments, you are trying to establish that only on the basis of this radio-isotope factor Death occurs. Harihara, according to you, represents Electro-weak interaction, which is obtained by a combination of electromagnetic interaction (Vishnu) and Weak Nuclear Interaction (Shiva). By announcing Harihara to be the force behind nuclear bombs, the Devasenapathy Karthikeya has been rendered "forceless" and therefore "jobless"!

I cannot fault you on theorizing about any thing. Science has progressed through both channels - theory preceding experimental evidences in some cases, (a classic example being Einstein's General Theory of Relativity) and experimental evidences leading to formulation of a theory at times (Bohr's Atomic Model accommodating non-radiating orbits being an example). But here you are on a sticky ground where there is no way to carry out any independent experiments under controlled conditions to establish or otherwise what you put forth. So it takes the whole thing away from the realm of Physics and plunges it into the realm of Metaphysics. It is all now a question of some thing you believe in because you have faith in it, or, you don't, because you have none. Sounds very familiar, isn't it? We generally call it 'Religion'.

I wish to add only one thing here: Zeal is a great thing, but over enthusiasm is an altogether different matter. The former sustains a person through thick and thin; but the latter very often tends to trip and bruise him.
 
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I am very happy to go through the arguments in posts 165 and 166. I feel that if I keep on following this thread I can learn many things. I have also started a new thread Amavasya Tharpanam which can also be an extension of the topic here. Hope you go through the thread and offer your opinion
 
Dear Shri suba42 ji,

In reply to my query at the end of post #161 whether you have any valid reasons for your likening different natural interactive forces to different Gods of Sanaathna Dharma or you are purely basing your arguments on 'intuition', you have elaborated your ideas in post #165. I get the feeling that you are picking up bits and pieces of information here and there and you contrive to fit them into your pet theory of likening them to some Gods of your choice while leaving the others (for later addition, perhaps, if some more forces are detected in future!).

According to you, the very first force to emerge, viz., 'strong nuclear interaction force' is Ganapathy, because he is propitiated by Hindus in the beginning of any undertaking. That make him the very first God, a 'senior' to every one else, but the Puranas speak of him as Parvathy's creation, which should make him much junior to the Trinity and their consorts!

I am not sure on what experimental findings you are basing your conclusions like "the Electromagnetic Interaction gives rise to Gravitational Interaction" to gain support for your idea that Brahmma came from the naabhikamalam of Vishnu, or, "Weak Nuclear Interaction, denotes the death of a person" to establish that it is nothing but Shiva. I must admit that my Physics is a little rusty, now that I am no more a practising teacher on the subject! Perhaps Shri KRS Sir and some other members can add value here.

Your argument that if the Neutron / Proton Ratio is more than one, the said isotope has radioactivity, citing the tritium example, is somewhat mis-leading. It leads to to an inescapable conclusion that all isotopes in which the neutron number in their nuclei is more than the proton number are radio-active, which is NOT the case. By such shaky arguments, you are trying to establish that only on the basis of this radio-isotope factor Death occurs. Harihara, according to you, represents Electro-weak interaction, which is obtained by a combination of electromagnetic interaction (Vishnu) and Weak Nuclear Interaction (Shiva). By announcing Harihara to be the force behind nuclear bombs, the Devasenapathy Karthikeya has been rendered "forceless" and therefore "jobless"!

I cannot fault you on theorizing about any thing. Science has progressed through both channels - theory preceding experimental evidences in some cases, (a classic example being Einstein's General Theory of Relativity) and experimental evidences leading to formulation of a theory at times (Bohr's Atomic Model accommodating non-radiating orbits being an example). But here you are on a sticky ground where there is no way to carry out any independent experiments under controlled conditions to establish or otherwise what you put forth. So it takes the whole thing away from the realm of Physics and plunges it into the realm of Metaphysics. It is all now a question of some thing you believe in because you have faith in it, or, you don't, because you have none. Sounds very familiar, isn't it? We generally call it 'Religion'.

I wish to add only one thing here: Zeal is a great thing, but over enthusiasm is an altogether different matter. The former sustains a person through thick and thin; but the latter very often tends to trip and bruise him.

CLN sir,

i have been trying to follow your threads along with suba42.

i am very happy to say that i am very dumb and do not understand most of what you guys write.

but it gives me great pleasure to read through it, and at the number of loaded concepts you guys appear to master. (for example - The Nirguna Parabrahman (Grand Unified Force which is of a point source of infinite energy) gives rise to Strong Nuclear Force at 10^-35 seconds from the time of Big Bang. )

pray continue along thiese lines. someday, a translator may come here, and interpret this in simple abcd for simple xyz like me :)
 
kunjuppu: pray continue along thiese lines. someday, a translator may come here, and interpret this in simple abcd for simple xyz like me

That was a nice wisecrack! Our dear friend suba42 has been striving hard to make his point, correlating different kinds of elusive interactive nuclear forces from Physics to his pet theory involving "Nirguna Parabrahmam" and the pantheon of Gods in Hindu mythology. As he has been keeping asking for my response, both inside and outside the thread (!) I posted my reply to the best of my limited abilities. Perhaps a better and a sensible (!) and more intelligible (!!) reply we can expect from Shri KRS, to whom I have specifically appealed in my post #166. ;) :)
 
Dear Dear Shri.CLN ji,

I the Branhman (Every Aathman is the Brahman) is eagerly waiting for the reply from Shri. KRS ji.

Pranaam.
 
Most welcome, Shri suba42! After all, when every aathman is a Brahman, where is the need for Brahman clashing with Brahman itself, because Brahmaiva Satyam! Any way, if Shri KRS ji decides to quench your eagerness, I will also be happy, because, your post reveals that my reply appears neither 'sensible' nor 'intelligible' to you! If Shri KRS ji also feels the same way as you feel,l he might post his reply as you expect.
 
Dear Dear Shri.CLN ji,

Well, Well, Well. As given in the Maandukya Upanishadh " Sarvagum Hyethath Brahmaha, Ayamaathmaa Brahmaha". (Verse 2). Thus spake Lord Varuna (in the form of a Frog : Maandukya means Frog). The Omnipresent Nirguna Parabrahman does not have to fight with itself. IF SO,

Why were so many competitions and discussions and arguments, between the Seers. If the "Nirguna Parabrahman" is really that Omnipresent, why it can not make itself known to all. Well, Well, Well, There are so many questions.

May be someone can find the answer.

Pranaam.
 
suba42: Why were so many competitions and discussions and arguments, between the Seers. If the "Nirguna Parabrahman" is really that Omnipresent, why it can not make itself known to all. Well, Well, Well, There are so many questions.

May be someone can find the answer.

Who is that 'some one' suba42? Another 'aathman' who is also 'brahman'? I thought it was you who is going to give the 'answer'!

Let me ask you a straight and simple question: Do you really believe that an answer will come from some one else? You have mentioned in your post #170 "I the Brahman". When you are yourself the brahman why do seek answer from outside?

No answer worthy of this profound question can come from outside. What answer are you really seeking here? That 'brahman' is only one and 'aathman' is 'brahman'? But, that is what you are telling yourself, though you are asking again the same question for which you already have the answer!

Can't you see the irony of the whole thing? You ask a question for which you already have the answer because you do not know the answer! 'Knowing' is a tricky word. It is NOT like a teacher asking a student, "How many days are there in a week?" and the student replying, "There are seven days in a week", because he 'knows' the answer. "Knowing" Brahman is not that type of 'knowing'! Knowing Brahman means "realizing" Brahman. And once some one realizes the Brahman, he will not be asking some one else that question, because he needs not an answer any more! By the very same logic, one who simply asks will not get any answer, because the answer is not to be sought outside, but it is within himself, which he only can realize. No amount of reading about swimming or seeing others swim is going to teach some one how to swim. He has to get into the water and start flapping and flailing about. Maybe, if he is lucky enough, after several futile attempts, he may suddenly realize, mark the word, realize that he really knows swimming now. What do you think he will do now onwards? First, he will stop asking any body how to swim ... and then keep on swimmimg, all by himself, without bothering to ask anything about any thing to any one. That is what all those who realized the 'Parabrahman' did. Proof? Jatabharathar, Sadasiva Brahmendraal, Raghavendra, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharshi ... the list is endless!
 
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Dear Shri.CLN ji,

First of all, you should keep the nicecities when addressing someone, you should start the mail with Shri., or Dear Shri. Do not get tensed up unnecessarily.

What makes you lose your patience?

You were the original doubter about the Monothiesm, and the scientific theory raised by me. Only you were the one to say that you were not good, and hence Shri.KRS should answer this question.

You have so many questions and doubts about the maker and your own knowledge, and you are questioning someone else's faith in one self.

Pranaam.
 
Who is that 'some one' suba42? Another 'aathman' who is also 'brahman'? I thought it was you who is going to give the 'answer'!

Let me ask you a straight and simple question: Do you really believe that an answer will come from some one else? You have mentioned in your post #170 "I the Brahman". When you are yourself the brahman why do seek answer from outside?

No answer worthy of this profound question can come from outside. What answer are you really seeking here? That 'brahman' is only one and 'aathman' is 'brahman'? But, that is what you are telling yourself, though you are asking again the same question for which you already have the answer!

Can't you see the irony of the whole thing? You ask a question for which you already have the answer because you do not know the answer! 'Knowing' is a tricky word. It is NOT like a teacher asking a student, "How many days are there in a week?" and the student replying, "There are seven days in a week", because he 'knows' the answer. "Knowing" Brahman is not that type of 'knowing'! Knowing Brahman means "realizing" Brahman. And once some one realizes the Brahman, he will not be asking some one else that question, because he needs not an answer any more! By the very same logic, one who simply asks will not get any answer, because the answer is not to be sought outside, but it is within himself, which he only can realize. No amount of reading about swimming or seeing others swim is going to teach some one how to swim. He has to get into the water and start flapping and flailing about. Maybe, if he is lucky enough, after several futile attempts, he may suddenly realize, mark the word, realize that he really knows swimming now. What do you think he will do now onwards? First, he will stop asking any body how to swim ... and then keep on swimmimg, all by himself, without bothering to ask anything about any thing to any one. That is what all those who realized the 'Parabrahman' did. Proof? Jatabharathar, Sadasiva Brahmendraal, Raghavendra, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Ramana Maharshi ... the list is endless!

Dear Shri CLN,

Permit me to add to the confusion as best as I can. The "nirguna parabrahman" [np] theory which is central to sankara's advaita is, in truth, fallacious. This has been discussed in a separate thread and I do not want to carry all those here once again.

Apart from all the deficiencies which have been discussed in that thread, there is a very basic impossibility, viz., "the knower cannot be known." That is if the np is the only reality which, as atman, perceives then with that atman it will be impossible to realize the np which is its root cause and of which the atman is a modified state.

All talk about "realization of np" is most probably a high stage of self-delusion — deceiving oneself by creating illusory ideas.
 
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