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Advaita revisited

thebigthinkg

Active member
Yesterday some sudden intuition struck me regarding the concept of maya and I am sharing it with you. There has been diffciulty to reconcile the concept of maya with nirguna brahman. ?My view is that maya inheres in nirguna brahman but nirguna brahman's reality is itself a unified whole and a single reality. However saguna brahman and maya automatically get projected as a lower level reality. Saguna brahman has the same experience with maya as nirguna brahman has but maya does not inhere in saguna brahman but weilded by saguna brahman upon itself to turn into many. Then saguna brahman as Atman becomes the silent witness and experiencer of everything. The only difference between nirguna brahman and saguna brahman's experience is that whereas maya inheres in the former , it is not the case in the latter but saguna brahman uses maya to get the same experience, The nature of reality lends itself to projection of lower realities and hence we have both nirguna brahman and saguna brahman.

I believe qualitatively the experience of brahman would be the same in both, but for nirguna brahman the experience is a unified whole whereas in the case of saguna brahman it unfolds through space and time.
Yesterday some sudden intuition struck me regarding the concept of maya and I am sharing it with you. There has been diffciulty to reconcile the concept of maya with nirguna brahman. ?My view is that maya inheres in nirguna brahman but nirguna brahman's reality is itself a unified whole and a single reality. However saguna brahman and maya automatically get projected as a lower level reality. Saguna brahman has the same experience with maya as nirguna brahman has but maya does not inhere in saguna brahman but weilded by saguna brahman upon itself to turn into many. Then saguna brahman as Atman becomes the silent witness and experiencer of everything. The only difference between nirguna brahman and saguna brahman's experience is that whereas maya inheres in the former , it is not the case in the latter but saguna brahman uses maya to get the same experience, The nature of reality lends itself to projection of lower realities and hence we have both nirguna brahman and saguna brahman.

I believe qualitatively the experience of brahman would be the same in both, but for nirguna brahman the experience is a unified whole whereas in the case of saguna brahman it unfolds through space and time.
Yesterday some sudden intuition struck me regarding the concept of maya and I am sharing it with you. There has been diffciulty to reconcile the concept of maya with nirguna brahman. ?My view is that maya inheres in nirguna brahman but nirguna brahman's reality is itself a unified whole and a single reality. However saguna brahman and maya automatically get projected as a lower level reality. Saguna brahman has the same experience with maya as nirguna brahman has but maya does not inhere in saguna brahman but weilded by saguna brahman upon itself to turn into many. Then saguna brahman as Atman becomes the silent witness and experiencer of everything. The only difference between nirguna brahman and saguna brahman's experience is that whereas maya inheres in the former , it is not the case in the latter but saguna brahman uses maya to get the same experience, The nature of reality lends itself to projection of lower realities and hence we have both nirguna brahman and saguna brahman.

I believe qualitatively the experience of brahman would be the same in both, but for nirguna brahman the experience is a unified whole whereas in the case of saguna brahman it unfolds through space and time.
There are multiple perspectives with multiple people and for everyone their perspective is the truth. So this is my perspective.

Brahman means expansion. Expansion of spacetime causes all the 'evolution' or evolutionary changes in Universe. Brahman causes 'ati sRsti' or super creation, which is creation of more and more intelligent beings.

Thus expansion of spacetime is Brahman. It is called the 'Nirguna' Brahman. The 'evolution' of forms of Universe is also Brahman. It is called 'Saguna Brahman'.

Gunas of Universe are Sattva (Increase in Entropy), Rajas (Increase in Energy) and Tamas (decrease of Entropy and energy).

The Nirguna Brahman, the 'expansion of spacetime' keeps happening always. It is not associated entropy or energy or changes in them.

The Saguna Brahman, the evolution in the forms of Universe is associated with changes in entropy and energy. This evolution keeps creating more complex/intelligent beings.

The Saguna Brahman (evolution) leads to 'mAyA'.

mAya means perception of 'change of form'. The evolution leads to continuous perception of change of forms.

The change of form can occur due to mere observation or superimposition (like wavefunction collapse) called adhyaropA.

It could be due to acquisition of new attributes in existing forms that makes it alternately known (anyatha AkhyAti).

It could be due to acquisition of totally new forms (Atma AkhyAti). It could be due to just being unknown (akhyAti) or simply erroneous perception.

Since mAyA is a perception in change of form, it could be translated as deception or illusion. But that's only one dimension of mAyA (the akhyAti).

The one who lords over the change of the forms (mAya) is Isvara. It is the bonding between the forms. At chemical level, it is the Electromagnetic force. At biological level it is the 'priyam' or love between beings.

The Saguna Brahman causes the 'Sat' (Existence), 'Cit' (consciousness) and 'Ananda' (defined as offspring or next generation)

The nirguna Brahman, the expansion of spacetime is beyond all these.

-TBT
 

a-TB

Well-known member
This kind of topic gets revisited and the usual participants say the same thing only to come back again. It is like birth-death-birth cycle.

Here is my take and like all other posts in the thread it is also wrong.

(Confused) Advita people of this forum: Nirguna Brahman is like Idli, you have to just marvel and taste this Idli. Saguna Brahman is just Idli with Sambar. But this sambar flows and is deceptive. It hides the Idli and we are fooled into drinking the Sambar

Dualists: There is Idli that goes with Sambar, Chutney, Thokku etc. We want to taste them but can only smell and we live our life in that smell and worship it

Special case of dualists (though some insist they be called special case of non-dualists, though there is nothing non-dual about their beliefs). They say Idli without sambar does not make sense. Idli is always with sambar (like Lakshmi and Narayana are always together). In addition to smell they can taste the Idli & sambar together and want to go to a place called Vaikunta where they can be tasting bits of sambar-idli all the time. They laugh at the idea of talking about Idli alone


Advita - non-dual exist to fight with dualists and special case of dualists.
If dualists are dismissed the Advita people will have nothing to do. So they keep generating words and keep asserting their points to each other every so often

What is then the reality? The reality is there is only Idli everywhere and you are that Idli. How can Idli taste itself - not possible. There is no one to taste. Idli only remains and all these ideas of sambar, chutney are just like a dream. Everyone is actually the only Idli there is
 

renuka

Well-known member
This kind of topic gets revisited and the usual participants say the same thing only to come back again. It is like birth-death-birth cycle.

Here is my take and like all other posts in the thread it is also wrong.

(Confused) Advita people of this forum: Nirguna Brahman is like Idli, you have to just marvel and taste this Idli. Saguna Brahman is just Idli with Sambar. But this sambar flows and is deceptive. It hides the Idli and we are fooled into drinking the Sambar

Dualists: There is Idli that goes with Sambar, Chutney, Thokku etc. We want to taste them but can only smell and we live our life in that smell and worship it

Special case of dualists (though some insist they be called special case of non-dualists, though there is nothing non-dual about their beliefs). They say Idli without sambar does not make sense. Idli is always with sambar (like Lakshmi and Narayana are always together). In addition to smell they can taste the Idli & sambar together and want to go to a place called Vaikunta where they can be tasting bits of sambar-idli all the time. They laugh at the idea of talking about Idli alone


Advita - non-dual exist to fight with dualists and special case of dualists.
If dualists are dismissed the Advita people will have nothing to do. So they keep generating words and keep asserting their points to each other every so often

What is then the reality? The reality is there is only Idli everywhere and you are that Idli. How can Idli taste itself - not possible. There is no one to taste. Idli only remains and all these ideas of sambar, chutney are just like a dream. Everyone is actually the only Idli there is
Its not as easy as you think it is.
Drag in maya matrix and the Idli starts to have an identity crisis.

Idli starts to think "Who am I?" KaH Aham?
Am I urad dhal or am I rice?

Why did the dualistic thought get into the mind of idli?
Then it sinks further in the ocean of Sambar(a) {Samsara)...unable to get beyond maya matrix.

It get's soggy and looses its true fluffy identity.
Then idli totally gives up and surrenders!
He calls out to God and God tells it "I have always been next to you as a livesaver..round with a hole in the middle for you to hold on and not drown..I am the Medu Vada which you failed to see"

Idli finally goes beyond duality..it is no more urad dhal or rice.
It finally realizes that there is only Idli and Vada made for each other.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Some misconceptions about maya. Maya's job is not creating ignorance. Its job is to blind you temporarily so that you are able to see the truth in the long run. That is also one of the reasons why maya has no relevance at the level of nirguna brahman reality. One can aptly say that maya is a spiritual force in that its methods are punitive but the goal very noble.
 

sravna

Well-known member
Only with respect to our reality the two entities of maya and saguna brahman exist. The ultimate reality is only nirguna brahman and has no second. Reality at that level is one and is only pure consciousness experiencing perfect bliss.

Maya and saguna brahman can be explained as playing out a law of the ultimate reality that only one reality is the ultimate truth. Remember if thoughts are powerful, nirguna brahman is beyond thoughts and omnipotent. Things happen without the brahman thinking. So one can say it is the thoughtless intention of nirguna brahman that results in the existence of saguna brahman and maya

Why should our reality be played out in converse methods ? May be because that what made the experience of nirguna brahman complete by covering the whole spectrum of thinking from the most negative to the most positive and resulting in perfect balance or nirguna.

We can say that the unified highest experience is the experience of nirguna brahman and the rest being projected as lower level realities.
 

sravna

Well-known member
The lower realities existing with synergy when synchronized there being a unified higher reality solves the problem of higher and lower level realities existing together.

For a soul the experience in the lower reality is transient because it constantly learns and evolves and moves up and finally merges with the highest reality.
 

sravna

Well-known member
The reality of nirguna brahman is still. Then comes the reality of saguna brahman and maya which create the dynamic lower reality of the universe all of which finally merge with the highest reality of nirguna brahman. So from the point of view of timeless reality of nirguna brahman the lower realities do not exist separately. they form the unified experience of nirguna brahman.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
Its not as easy as you think it is.
Drag in maya matrix and the Idli starts to have an identity crisis.

Idli starts to think "Who am I?" KaH Aham?
Am I urad dhal or am I rice?

Why did the dualistic thought get into the mind of idli?
Then it sinks further in the ocean of Sambar(a) {Samsara)...unable to get beyond maya matrix.

It get's soggy and looses its true fluffy identity.
Then idli totally gives up and surrenders!
He calls out to God and God tells it "I have always been next to you as a livesaver..round with a hole in the middle for you to hold on and not drown..I am the Medu Vada which you failed to see"

Idli finally goes beyond duality..it is no more urad dhal or rice.
It finally realizes that there is only Idli and Vada made for each other.
It is not be as complicated as you may say LOL

Idlis in Sambar (maya) are comparing with each other. That is a bigger and fluffier Idli etc. They are immersed in sambar. Now totality of all Idli is God. Total of Idli can absorb all the sambar, so each Idli is praying to totality of all Idli

Then realization sets in - No vada - etc. That small and big idli does not matter. They are all Idli material only. Realization sets in and that is liberation. In that part what you have written I can relate to.
 

sravna

Well-known member
I will propose a more refined understanding of maya. Maya as many know operates so that one learns and evolves. Taking it to the extreme, the strongest maya helps one learn instantly, totally and permanently. In other words it makes one omnipotent and omniscient. Maya then becomes one within the omnipotence. I think now we can understand how maya can be explained in the context of nirguna brahman without contradiction.
 

a-TB

Well-known member
This kind of topic gets revisited and the usual participants say the same thing only to come back again. It is like birth-death-birth cycle.(#23)
This is different by Meena & looks true

Very correct question in that poem.
If Atma is same then why all these divisions. Some of the super religious people in all religions are the biggest hypocrites I have come across. Even here, there are LGBTQ haters talking about Brahman, Nirguna and Saguna, god and all kinds of word soups. One fellow eagersly wants to tell everyone his pet beliefs and that he is the advocate for 'his God' LOL This forum provides humor in the least expected threads LOL
 

a-TB

Well-known member
I will propose a more refined understanding of maya. Maya as many know operates so that one learns and evolves. Taking it to the extreme, the strongest maya helps one learn instantly, totally and permanently. In other words it makes one omnipotent and omniscient. Maya then becomes one within the omnipotence. I think now we can understand how maya can be explained in the context of nirguna brahman without contradiction.
If Maya is another word for your imagined spirituality and power - please NO. Spare some of us, please
 

sravna

Well-known member
a-TB,
For you everything of others which you do not want to accept, is imagined. But you will also learn . That is maya for you
 

Janaki Jambunathan

Well-known member
If Maya is another word for your imagined spirituality and power - please NO. Spare some of us, please
Is everything Maya ? Deavadoss!
The water scarcity is a Maya created by opposition according to Minister Velumani. if Maya is another name for someone's spiritual power - he can solve the problem - which has failed time and again like Ramar mooligai petrol! Maya stuck men have no clear vision They cannot see truth - have many levels of illusion lower higher and updating every day ! Revisit on daily basis to come with a refined understanding - back to square 1
 

renuka

Well-known member
Sravna,..check this out.
I am sure you can relate to this...its Advaita Revisited too.
Really well explained by Dr. Joseph Lumbard.

 
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