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about days of the week

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drsundaram

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Greetings. This is a question I have had for a long time.
Did ancient tamils have the concept of the seven days of the week (Sunday - Saturday) or was it introduced by outsiders?
Calendars vary from region to region when it comes to months and years. But worldwide there is a standardization on the weekly seven days. The names that represent sun, moon and the 5 planets are also uniformly used.
I tend to think that this was introduced by foreigners such as the British, or the coincidence seems impossible.
If that is indeed the case (that it was brought in by foreigners), I have another question. Is there any meaning in linking the days of the week with Hindu religious festivals and other ceremonies? Such as considering Purattasi Sani or Thai Velli as special? Or in not conducting marriages on saturdays?
I would like to get our learned member's inputs.
Regards
 
Dear Dr. Sundaram,

You have raised an interesting topic. There are numerous calendars in the world. While the calendars differ in many aspects, for eg: the day when the year begins in every calendar, the number of months, the number of days in the months etc, strangely all the calendars are agreed in the number of days in a week and also on the first day of the week. For eg: the first day of the week in Tamil Calendar coincides with the first day of the week in Gregorian Calendar. When the day of the week is 'Gnayiru', the first day in Tamil Calendar, the same day is Sunday, the first day of the week in Gregorian Calendar. The same day is the first day of the week in Telugu, Islamic and every calendar in the world. One of my christian friends says that it is written in their Old Testament that God took Six days to create the entire universe and the Seventh day He took rest. However in India we should be having a different explanation/story for a seven-day-week plan, perhaps the days are after the Saptha Rishis. I don't reckon, the seven-day-week plan in Indian calendars is an influence from the west. When it comes to matters of measuring time, calendars, astronomy etc., Indians are far advanced than the westerners. Perhaps the westerners learnt from us and are following us on the seven-day-week plan.
 
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Dr.sundaram, our ancient tamils had this seven day a week-i am quoting here the first stanza of thirugnana sambandhar swamigal's kolaru thirupathigam(incidentally thirugnana sambandhar is considered as avathar of lord muruga, popularly known as tamizh kadavul)-
"veyuru tholibankan vidamundakandan miganalla veenai thadavi masaru thingalgangai mudimel aninthen ulame pugantha ahanal gnayuru thingal chevvai budhan vyazhan velli sani pambirundumudane asaru nallanalla avai nallanalla adiyaravarku migave"
sambandhar's period has been estimated as 7th century, but this practice would have started long long ago.
Balagopal
 
In February 2010 there was 4 Mondays, 4 Tuesdays, 4 Wednesdays,4 Thursdays, 4 Fridays , 4 Saturdays and 4 sundays. This comes once in 11 years it seems
 
re

The ancient Indians did not use the seven day week. The most ancient usage of day names used in India was that of the Nakshatra. There are twenty seven lunar asterisms or constellations in the old lunar zodiac. This number was derived from the average number of days it took the Moon to complete one circuit of the heavens in relation to any particular star (one sidereal revolution). Since the Hindus didn't use hours to divide their day, the natural consequence of using a seven day week would not follow. Instead they divided a day into 60 equal parts called ghatikas. Each ghatika is equal to 24 minutes. The word "ghatika" means little jar and thus the use of water clocks suggest itself. A ghatika is further divided into 60 vinadikas. So between the two cultures, it was the Hindus who made direct use of the sexagesimal system whereas the Chaldeans used an indirect method of 24 hours.
It wasn't until much later in the third century AD where we find the first usage of the seven day week in India. Indeed much of the rest of the world had not adopted it until after the first century AD. It was unknown to the writers of the New Testament who did not mention anything about the day of the week on which Christ was crucified or the the week day which he is alleged to have ascended to heaven. The fixing of Friday and Sunday for these incidents is a later concoction, dating from the fifth century after Christ. All that the New Testament books say is that he was crucified on the day before the Hebrew festival of Passover which used to be celebrated and is still celebrated on the full‐moon day of the month of Nisan. The continuous seven day week was unknown to the classical Greeks, the Romans, the Hindus and early Christians. It was introduced into the Christian world by an edict of the Roman emperor Constantine, about 323 AD, who changed the Sabbath to the Lord's Day (Sunday), the week day next to the Jewish Sabbath. Its introduction into India is about the same time and from the same sources. The week days are not found in earlier Hindu scriptures like the Vedas of the classics like the great epic Mahabharata. They occur only from 484 AD, but not in inscriptions of 300 AD or earlier. Even now, they form but an unimportant part in the religious observances of the Hindus which are determined by the Moon's phases and lunar asterisms.
In the schema of the Moon's phases we see a repeated pattern to that of Jupiter and Saturn. A lunar month is made up of 30 tithis. Each tithi is determined when the moon moves in advance of twelve degrees ahead of the Sun. Here we see the numbers 30 and 12 that are common with Saturn and Jupiter. A complete synodic period (a complete revolution around the zodiac in relation to the Sun) of the Moon, however, takes only 29 civil days. (A civil day for the Indians is reckoned from sunrise to sunrise). It is quite a regular occurrence for a tithi to be expunged from the consecutive civil day count. This characteristic of the Hindu calendar is not found in the Greek, Chinese or Mesopotamian calendars. Other cultures, without exception, use solely a civil day count of 28, 29 and 30 days for their lunation cycles and had not even considered a pure lunar day count independent from the civil reckoning. The consistency of the Hindu astronomical methods make it unlikely that they borrowed their knowledge from other sources. And the repeated usage of the sexagesimal measurement makes it more like that they were the inventors of the system.
The lunar asterisms (nakshatras) are derived from the average daily motion of the Moon's mean sidereal cycle, which is 13° 20′ of arc. In a circle of 360 degrees this would make twenty seven nakshatras. Each nakshatra has a planetary ruler and they are shown as follows:

The Six Thousand Year Barrier — An Essay on Hindu Astrology

nachi naga
 
Sri nachi naga's post is scholarly. I wish to add one more thing. The earliest reference to days of the week in Tamil is in Thirumanthiram and Appar Thevaram. The Thirumanthiram reference is unreliable since there are many interpolations in it and one can not find when the particular verse was created, whether it was the original work of Thirumoolar or whether it was interpolated later. Of Appar's poem, there seems to be no interpolation and he mentions, once, about god being the seven days of the week. கொள்ளும் கிழமை ஏழானாய் போற்றி. His contemporary, Thirugnanasambandar lists the nine planets but does not mention the days named after them. No sangam age work contains mention of the days of the week. No sanskrit work either has any.
In Yajur veda, there is a mention of a six day cycle meant for a particular kind of yaga. But the days were not named.

It seems that the practice of naming the days of the week originated in Greece and was spread by Arabian merchants. Since the Arabs were known to have travelled to east west widely, they could have spread the system. The uniformity of the days of the week beyond the barriers of country and religion can not otherwise be explained.
 
Sambandhar do not know his day of birth!

Dr.sundaram, our ancient tamils had this seven day a week-i am quoting here the first stanza of thirugnana sambandhar swamigal's kolaru thirupathigam(incidentally thirugnana sambandhar is considered as avathar of lord muruga, popularly known as tamizh kadavul)-
"veyuru tholibankan vidamundakandan miganalla veenai thadavi masaru thingalgangai mudimel aninthen ulame pugantha ahanal gnayuru thingal chevvai budhan vyazhan velli sani pambirundumudane asaru nallanalla avai nallanalla adiyaravarku migave"
sambandhar's period has been estimated as 7th century, but this practice would have started long long ago.
Balagopal

This cannot be a proof for this is about Navagrahas and Navam stands for number Nine. But a week has got only seven days. But the order in which the planets are listed is same and it is from astrology.

இந்திய பஞ்சாங்கம் தான் கரெக்ட்

இந்தியப் பருவங்கள் சூரியனை அடிப்படையாகக் கொண்டும், மாதங்கள் சந்திரனை அடிப்படையாகக் கொண்டும், நாட்கள் சூரிய சந்திரர்களை அடிப்படையாகக் கொண்டும் கணிக்கப்படுகின்றன.பொதுவாக இந்தியப் பஞ்சாங்கங்களின் படி, சந்திரனை அடிப்படையாகக் கொண்டு 12 மாதங்கள் கணிக்கப்படுகின்றன. ஒரு மாதம் என்பது சந்திரனின் இயக்கப்படி 29 நாட்கள், 12 மணிநேரம், 44 நிமிடங்கள், 3 வினாடிகள் கொண்டது. ஆக, இந்தக் கணிப்பின்படி, ஒரு ஆண்டு என்பது, 354 நாட்கள், 8 மணிநேரம், 48 நிமிடங்கள், 36 வினாடிகள் கொண்டதாக இருக்கும்.ஆனால், ஐரோப்பிய நாடுகளின் காலண்டர் படி, ஒரு ஆண்டு சூரியனை அடிப்படையாகக் கொண்டு கணிக்கப்படுகிறது. அதன்படி ஒரு ஆண்டு என்பது, 365 நாட்கள், 5 மணிநேரம், 48 நிமிடங்கள், 46 வினாடிகள் கொண்டதாக இருக்கும். இந்த இரண்டு கணிப்புகளுக்கும் இடையில் 10 நாட்கள் வித்தியாசம் இருக்கிறது.இதைச் சுட்டிக்காட்டும் பிரபல ஜோதிடர் பரத் பூஷன் பத்மதேவ் கூறியதாவது:சூரியன் மற்றும் சந்திரனுக்கு இடையில் உள்ள தூரத்தின் அடிப்படையில் இந்தியப் பஞ்சாங்கங்கள் கணிக்கப்படுகின்றன. மேலும் ஆண்டில் நிகழும் பருவங்களை மையமாகக் கொண்டும் கணிக்கப்படுகின்றன. அதன்படி, கடந்த ஆண்டு மார்ச் 11ம் தேதி வந்த ஹோலிப் பண்டிகை, இந்த ஆண்டு 10 நாட்கள் முன்னதாக மார்ச் 1ம் தேதி கொண்டாடப்படுகிறது. அதன்படி, இந்தியப் பஞ்சாங்கம் மிகச் சரியாகக் கணிக்கப்பட்டுள்ளது என்பது உறுதியாகிறது.மேலும், இந்தியப் பஞ்சாங்கங்களின் படி, பண்டிகைகள் பருவகாலத்தோடு தொடர்புடையவை. அதனால் அந்தந்தப் பருவத்துக்குரிய பண்டிகைகள் மிகச்சரியாக அந்தப் பருவகாலத்தில்தான் கொண்டாடப்படும். ஆனால், ஐரோப்பிய காலண்டர் படி, தேதிகளின் அடிப்படையில் பண்டிகைகள் கொண்டாடப்படுகின்றன. அதனால், பருவகாலப் பண்டிகைகளை அவர்கள் பருவம் தப்பியும் கொண்டாட நேரிடுகிறது.
 
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moons 10 day difference in comparison to suns 365 days/year is compensated with a adhika masam frequently.there are 60 year cycles of hindu calendar,this april it will be vikruthi for tamils :) similiarly jupiter or guru bhagavan and saturns cycle is also used,gods leelas are scientific in nature :)
 
Though 'navgrahas' are mentioned in astrology, there have only been 7 grahas physically accepted and the Rahu and Ketu are shadow planets. I have read somewhere before even name of certain days of the week was not same what we call them as such today.
 
Over reacting the ordinary thing!

In February 2010 there was 4 Mondays, 4 Tuesdays, 4 Wednesdays,4 Thursdays, 4 Fridays , 4 Saturdays and 4 sundays. This comes once in 11 years it seems
Any February with 28 days should have this feature! I think you are wrong sir.
 
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