ஸ்மார்த்தர்களும் தேவாரமும்

[vikrama]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

ஸ்மார்த்தர்களும் தேவாரமும்

வைஷ்ணவர்கள் திவ்ய பிரபந்தத்திற்குக் கொடுக்கும் முக்கியத்துவம், ஸ்மார்த்தர்கள் ஏன் தேவார திருவாசகங்களுக்குக் கொடுப்பதில்லை? இனியாவது ஏன் கொடுக்கக் கூடாது? அவ்வாறு கொடுப்பது பிராமணர்- அல்லாதாரிடையே உள்ள பிளவை நீக்கும் என்று கருதுகிறேன். முற்காலத்தில் அந்தணர்களும் கோவிலில் ஓதுவார்களாக இருந்திருக்கிறார்கள் என்று லால்குடிக் கல்வெட்டு கூறுகிறது.
விக்ரம

 

[RVR]

Both Thirugnana Sambandar and Sundararmoorthi Nayanar are suppose to belong to our community. Arunagirinathar belonging to our community has composed Thiruppugazh.
I personally recite Devaram, Divya Prabhandam and Thiruppugazh daily.

I am a devotee of Vaishnavi temple, Thirumullaivayil, Chennai. The Vaishnavi idol was installed by Vallimalai Swamigal (again belonging to our community by birth) reciting Tiruppugazh. Even today Tiruppugazh is recited in the temple regularly. Incidentally founder of the temple Swamy Anvanandaji (Parthasarathy Iyengar) is a
vaishavite

Please visit the following website for further details

Sri Vaishnavi Shrine, Aavadi (Chennai)

I feel smartha`s can recite not only Devaram & Thiruvasagam but also Divya Prabandham and Thiruppugazh daily

 

[akura]

ஒன்று

வைஷ்ணவர்கள் திவ்ய பிரபந்தத்திற்குக் கொடுக்கும் முக்கியத்துவம், ஸ்மார்த்தர்கள் ஏன் தேவார திருவாசகங்களுக்குக் கொடுப்பதில்லை? இனியாவது ஏன் கொடுக்கக் கூடாது? அவ்வாறு கொடுப்பது பிராமணர்- அல்லாதாரிடையே உள்ள பிளவை நீக்கும் என்று கருதுகிறேன். முற்காலத்தில் அந்தணர்களும் கோவிலில் ஓதுவார்களாக இருந்திருக்கிறார்கள் என்று லால்குடிக் கல்வெட்டு கூறுகிறது.
விக்ரம

ஹரியும் சிவனும் ஒன்று .
தேவாரம் திருவாசகம் மற்றும் திவ்ய பிரபந்தங்கள் என்பன
அனைவராலும் பழகப்படவேண்டியவை . கண்ணப்பரின்
பக்திக்கு நாம் முன்னேறவேண்டும் என்ற ஏக்கமாவது
நமக்கு மிஞ்சட்டும்
பிளவு பிராமணர் அல்லாதவர்கள் பிராமணர் என்பது மட்டுமல்ல
பிரமாணர் இடையேயும் இருக்க வேண்டாமே .

--

 

[RVR]

I fully agree with your views. The need of the hour is Unity among all sects of our community. Let us support unity among our community

 

[Sunray]

I would assume everybody in 21st century would be for Unity. Nobody wants to fight the battles of the past. I have seen lot of saivities who recite Vishnu Sahasranamam and Thirupavai - including myself. This has always intrigued me. But I dont have a logical explanation though

 

[kunjuppu]

venkat, sunray,

we should be happy, if we get a broad based support.

there will always be the radicals. somehow, it takes extreme shocks in life, for folks to open up their hearts and minds. my view.

i would tend to point fingers beyond this. hence i stop.

hope for the best.

thank you.

 

[pannvalan]

I too agree. My opinion is this.

1. Except among Tamil Brahmins, there is no deep divide between Saivites and
Vaishnavites, amongst brahmins speaking other Indian languages.

2. Again, those who follow Saiva Siddantham (esp. Mudaliars and Pillais) feel that
brahmins are not part of Tamil society, precisely for the reason that we don't
accord prominence to Tamil literary works which propagated Bhakthi those days
and were powerful and influential amongst all sections of the society. Remember,
cultural and spiritual renaissance was made possible only from South India, that too
Tamilnadu, in 7th and 8th century A.D. Adi Sankara, Ramanuja, other nayanmars
and alwars were from our state. (Kerala was Chera naadu in those days).

3. I feel somehow during the last 5 centuries or so, we were emotionally attached to
Sanskrit only, thereby slowly leaving Tamil in our devotional activities, indirectly
proving the Aryan-Dravidian concept.

4. In Vaishnava Sampradaya, those who recite Divya Prabhandham go first, followed
by (the idols of) Lord Srinivasa and Lakshmi, followed by those who recite Vedas.
So much of importance is given to Divya Prabhandham that it is called Dravida
Vedam.

5. Every Tamil Brahmin, particularly Smarthas, must come forward to revive the old
tradition and practice. As I have been repeatedly writing, Tamil is no way inferior
to Sanskrit. Sanskrit alone is not Deva Basha. Every one can worship, interact
with God in one's own language. That only brings the devotee closer to the Lord
and develops intimacy between them.

6. As I have observed, no other language in the world, I can swear, contains so
much of Bakthi literature in great abundance, than Sanskrit and Tamil (in equal
measure). (Perhaps, too much of bakthi only produced 'nihilism' in Tamilnadu
alone in South India).

7. Let us not feel shy to call ourselves 'Tamil Brahmins'.

Thamizhan endru sollada; Thalai nimirndhu nillada!

 

[tbs]

i too agree. My opinion is this.

1. Except among tamil brahmins, there is no deep divide between saivites and
vaishnavites, amongst brahmins speaking other indian languages.

2. Again, those who follow saiva siddantham (esp. Mudaliars and pillais) feel that
brahmins are not part of tamil society, precisely for the reason that we don't
accord prominence to tamil literary works which propagated bhakthi those days
and were powerful and influential amongst all sections of the society. Remember,
cultural and spiritual renaissance was made possible only from south india, that too
tamilnadu, in 7th and 8th century a.d. Adi sankara, ramanuja, other nayanmars
and alwars were from our state. (kerala was chera naadu in those days).

3. I feel somehow during the last 5 centuries or so, we were emotionally attached to
sanskrit only, thereby slowly leaving tamil in our devotional activities, indirectly
proving the aryan-dravidian concept.

4. In vaishnava sampradaya, those who recite divya prabhandham go first, followed
by (the idols of) lord srinivasa and lakshmi, followed by those who recite vedas.
So much of importance is given to divya prabhandham that it is called dravida
vedam.

5. Every tamil brahmin, particularly smarthas, must come forward to revive the old
tradition and practice. As i have been repeatedly writing, tamil is no way inferior
to sanskrit. Sanskrit alone is not deva basha. Every one can worship, interact
with god in one's own language. That only brings the devotee closer to the lord
and develops intimacy between them.

6. As i have observed, no other language in the world, i can swear, contains so
much of bakthi literature in great abundance, than sanskrit and tamil (in equal
measure). (perhaps, too much of bakthi only produced 'nihilism' in tamilnadu
alone in south india).

7. Let us not feel shy to call ourselves 'tamil brahmins'.

thamizhan endru sollada; thalai nimirndhu nillada!

திரு பன் வலன் அவர்களெ
தமிழ் நமக்கு உயிர்...வைணவத்திற்க்கு
திவ்யபிரபந்தம் உயிர் நாடி என்று சொன்னால்
மிக ஆகாது...தமக்குள் 'ழ' என்ற சிற்ப்பு எழுத்து
இருப்பதால் தமிழுக்கு சிறப்பு..தமிழன் என்று
சொல்லடா ...தலை நமிற்ந்து நில்லடா...
இப்படிக்கு
தபிஸ்

 

[RVR]

There are plenty of Tamil Scholars well versed in Tamil Literature even today.

Mr.Ramachandran is the present Director of Saiva Sidhantha research centre at Dharmapuram Adheenam. Popularly known as Sekkizhar Adipodi, Sri Ramachandran has done enormous research in `Panniru Thirumurai' consisting of Devaram, Thiruvachagam & other saiva literature. He has published several research papers. He presented papers in the last world tamil conference at Tanjore.

Vallimalai Sri Sachidananda Swamigal was responsible for revival of Thiruppugazh composed by Arunagirinathar on Lord Muruga.

Even today, smartha's contribute very much for tamil literature and through this forum I request all of you get involved in the development of tamil literature.

However I was shocked when unnecessary controversy was created at Chidambaram temple were the local Dikshidars objected to reciting of Devaram inside Sri Nataraja temple. Unnecessarily we were projected in the eyes of general public that TB is against tamil.
Lord Nataraja has initiated Sekkizhar with the word `Ulagelam' for composing Thiruthondar Puranam and objecting Devaram inside Sri Nataraja temple is as good as insulting Lord Nataraja.

It is high time, we correct these aberations and work for Tamil Development. Tamil is not the property of Dravidan movement people and TB has contributed enormously

 

[pannvalan]

It has been proved time and again that the contribution of brahmins to Tamil literature is immense and unquestionable. Tamil literature minus works of brahmins in it will be a small quantity.

Regarding Chidambaram temple episode, full facts are yet to come out, as the entire media coverage was biased.

But what I understood was -

1. Dikshidars themselves were reciting Thevara pathigangal at the appointed hours.

2. They only objected to some people with dubious background climbing the 'Sabha
nayagar medai' and interfering with the functioning of dikshidhars, in the name of
singing thevaram.

3. Dikshidhars felt it was an infringement of their rights.

4. Most notably, the DK activists and some Dalits (read as anti-brahmin groups in this
context) were in the forefront, inciting and whipping up passions on both sides, thereby creating
unprecedented nuisance and irritation to everybody.

So, my inference is none of the dikshidhars objected to recital of thevaram per se, by any person or group. I think this is the crux of the arguments put forth by Subramaniam Swamy too.

 

[RVR]

People who wanted to recite Devaram had a court order permitting them to recite inside temple. If the Dikshadars felt that this group is dubius, they should have challenged it in the higher court and got a stay. Instead there was voilence inside the temple involving Dikshidars and others. Some of the Dikshidars were arrested and later released.

I earnestly feel that such incidents create bad name for our community. We should fight for our cause peacefully in the proper forums and street fight is not the solution.

 

[pannvalan]

Agreed. But, look at the issue from the Dikshidhars viewpoint. They felt a real threat to their survival. Unfortunately the state government was also hand in glove with the culprits and silently encouraged them and goaded them. All the lower courts in Tamilnadu, or any state for that matter, are only puppets in the hands of the ruling party, whoever it could be.

Nobody answered the question:

What job the atheists had inside a (Hindu) temple? What was their locus standi in the issue involved?

 

[RVR]

I also agree that judiciary is not independent and corrupt at lower levels. However at higher levels, still some dignity is preserved. My point is why Dikshidars didn't appeal against the order and got a stay? Generally any agrived party appealing against the lower court order can get a stay at higher court pending disposal of the case.

Subramanyam Swamy got a stay against demolition of Rama Sethu at Supreme court and now the Government is willing to consider alternate path without demolition of Rama Sethu.

Dikshidars should have adopted same technique instead of physical fight inside the temple

 

[pannvalan]

This kind of 'odhungi pogum' attitude only has brought us to this condition. Bharathi said "Raudhram Pazhagu". Many defence chiefs in India were brahmins. Offence is the best form of defence, if things come to such a pass. When rowdies barge into my house and indulge in all kinds of violence, you want me to first file an FIR? If the police is also not obliging or even hostile, should I have to go to a court? What will happen in the meantime?

Even criminal laws say that killing another, with a view to safeguard one's life is not a murder and it is an act of self-defence. But, it an extreme step. When there is a danger or grave threat to our life, we can not act like a sane person, can we?

 

[kunjuppu]

folks,

my take on the dikshithars' issue is this:

we all have to be aware of the world in which we live, with the current stream of social and political currents. to ignore this, and put ourselves into a shell, is akin to suicide.

the dikshithars might have had exclusive hereditary rights to sing devaram in the temple, but the fact remains that it is a public place of worship, and within the hindu norms, it is ok for folks to walk around singing hymns.

just visit kapali temple at any time, and there are always elderly gentlemen with ringing tones at the top of the voices, invoking the almighty in tamil verses. personally i love it.

the dikshithars might have felt besieged by the political ruckus, but i think, they were politically naive and probably received bad or no advice to deal with this situation.

in this day and age, entitlement especially based on caste and creed does not hold water. this is the reality. based on this, compromises should be reached. after all it was devout hindu singing our own hymns.

somewhere there, i think, we have missed the point, that invoking the Lord should be done in commune with the community that we serve. the dikshithars too seem to have forgotten that.

all in all, the losers are the dikshithars. they might have won a pyrrhic victory through the courts. but in the hearts of the average tamil, this has been yet another example of brahmin arrogance and exclusivity.

we should know where, when and how to pick our battles. i think we erred here.

thank you.

 

[anandb]

My knowledge on this is quite limited but came across these 2 interesting articles on the Podu Dikshitars case.

Vijayvaani.com
Vijayvaani.com

My only question is the secular government in our country spends Rs 700 crores on subsidizing the Haj pilgrimage for Muslims and allows the Church to become the 2nd biggest landowner in the country after the government but then has all the time to meddle in Hindu affairs.

 

[RVR]

Sri Kunjuppu ji,

You are absolutely right that Dikshidars have spoiled the whole atmosphere. General public think that we are against Tamil Language where as even today lot of our people are doing wonderful service for the development of Tamil Language.

Violence inside the temple is highly condemnable and we have not achieved anything at the end.

 

[Ramacchandran]

According to Vedam, The Smarthas are writters of Smruthi., and they should see only science in their approach. The AAgama/ the activation of rays from the Planets of the Universe is studied by the seers (The Person who feels the side effect of his experiment) chanted and discussed with satha Patha Brahmana (Hundreds of Bramans) and written as manthra.

The Yajur Vedis should not mingle with god and his skin should have the alertness that he gets the vibrations and feels and he should be able to find the difference of vibration from each Planets. For this Gayathri is the base, next there are 10 more steps.

This I had written in Tamil in a book thesis form, will be happy to lend to any one who promises me that he will return back at the earliest in good condition.

 

[kunjuppu]

This I had written in Tamil in a book thesis form, will be happy to lend to any one who promises me that he will return back at the earliest in good condition.

congrats rama.

perhaps it might be a good idea, to digitalize it. that way, you can keep it forever, load it in a website for the public, and still keep your precious copy as a potential heirloom.

thank you.

 

[Ramacchandran]

I am not having that skill in Comp. to upload.

Those who read my thesis said it is very excellent! and informative. This you can publish and give them to the Vedic schools in Tamil Nadu.

But I am not sure who will take that responsibility and expanses!

 

[Ramacchandran]

I also written a thesis on Dhakshina Moorthy in English. This is 120 Pages, the origin of dhakshina Moorthy, and how it developed in time etc., why it had put right leg down in some places why it had put down left leg in some places, some has six , four and eight hands etc., are analyzed in detail. It is with 100 pic., and hard to send by mail.

 

[RVR]

Very good sri Ramacchandran ji, I can help you in uploading. Please send a personal mail to me.

எண்ணாயிரமாண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டரிவாரில்லை உள்நாடி ஒளிபெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

I am not having that skill in Comp. to upload.

Those who read my thesis said it is very excellent! and informative. This you can publish and give them to the Vedic schools in Tamil Nadu.

But I am not sure who will take that responsibility and expanses!

 

[ambes]

I would like to learn sanskrit slokas. i stay at mylapore chennai. anybody to teach

 

[narayanancdm]

There are plenty of saivities reciting Devaram, Thiruvasagam and as well Vishnu Sahasranamam, etc....

Divya prabandham is equal to four vedas (Periya Thirumozhi, Eyerpa, Thiruvaimozhi, Thirumozhi).

For timing concern most of the vaishnavites are not reciting Divya Prabandham in a daily manner.

From my vaishnavite friend I hear that, before starting of Divya Prabandham it has many thing to be followed, which is not easy for this rushing world. It will take around 6 to 7 hours as performed in full manner. (The mantras will start when we start bathing).

Thanks and regards.....

 

[ambes]

I agree. Unity in our community is very important. lets forget all divisions in the classifications and be one as a community.