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பூணூல் மாலையாக போடவேண்டும் - A Controversial topic

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Raji Ram

Active member
Dear Rishi sir,

These are named 'threads' because they can grow to any length and also have twists and turns, till the brahma's knot is

bestowed by our moderator. Let us try to learn what others know!

Samgom Sir is very well versed in our traditions and gives correct explanations for queries. Here he is testing P J Sir! :)
 
Brilliant. In our engineering college we had a lecturer with left leaning, who often said - your heart is on the right side by being on the left side.

I remember what my sister in law living in the U S of a told me once about guys wearing only one ear stud!

The formula is 'Left is right; right is wrong!' That time I remembered the poonool only! :)
 
Dear Rishi sir,

These are named 'threads' because they can grow to any length and also have twists and turns, till the brahma's knot is

bestowed by our moderator. Let us try to learn what others know!

Samgom Sir is very well versed in our traditions and gives correct explanations for queries. Here he is testing P J Sir! :)

Smt. Raji Ram,

I am not testing Shri PJ. We know that an upaveetham was compulsory for the yajamaanan (and also perhaps the other priests of four categories, but this is not clear from our available scriptures) of a vedic sacrifice. We also see that many of the Srauta- and Grihya- Sutras give detailed instructions regarding the making, wearing etc., of the Poonal. Even then it is observed that the Namboothiris, while doing the vedic yaagams, wear their yajnopaveetham in their own traditional way, in addition to the poonals. And, since Shri PJ has a Sastrigal and is also knowing the moderator of the Kanchi Forum, I was sincerely requesting him to find out, from his sources, about why and when the yajnopaveetham morphed from a மேல் வேஷ்டி (mel veṣṭi) as the name upaveetham implies, into a string of cotton threads.

The possibility is that when our vedic people came into contact with the Zorashtrians at some point in history, and their Kushti (Kushti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) which is made up of 72 fine, white woollen threads representing the 72 chapters of their sacred text Yazna. Accordingly, our people could have thought of three cotton threads representing the three vedas which alone were recognised even perhaps at the time of composition of the Bhagavadgeetha. Subsequently, the two-poonals on marriage, and three-poonals on birth of child might have been made so that merely by looking at a male person one can say whether he was married, etc. Of course, these are my personal guesses and there is nothing to substantiate these in our religious books AFAIK.
 

prasad1

Active member
Compared with the pool of knowledge on this site, I know nothing about the Janue or poonal.
I even missed this thread till now. Then I saw Sangomji participating, and I had to investigate as he provides detailed and scholarly explanations, and is usually very objective in his reasoning.

This is what I found in the internet.
Janeu Thread Material
This sacred thread of the Brahmins is made of cotton, that of a Kshatriya of hempen threads and that of a Vaisya of woollen threads.


Form of the Janeu
The form of the Janeu is different for different caste groups or sects. These forms are as follows :
Brahmgandh : With 5 knots for the higher grades of Brahmins and 3 knots for the lower grades Brahmin
Vishnugandh : The thread is with one knot for all other castes.
Meaning of the Three Strands of the Janeu
The janeu thread used by the Brahmins consists of three strands. There are various interpretations of the three strands of the janeo. These are as follows :


The three strands symbolizes the Hindu trinity-Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma.
Some symbolizes with Mahasarasvati, Mahalakshmi and Mahakali.
Some interpret with past, present and the future.
The three qualities-sattva, rajas and tamas.
The three states-wakefulness, dream and deep sleep.
The three dimensions-Heaven (swarga), Earth (mrityuloka) and nether regions (pataloka).
The most important of all is-ida, pingala and susumna nadi, through which the kundalini energy manifests as prana and consciousness.
Different Methods of Wearing the Thread
There are different methods of wearing the Sacred Thread at different occasions. For example :


While performing an auspicious ceremony one should be Upaviti that is, the Sacred Thread should hang from his left shoulder.
While performing an inauspicious ceremony one should be Prachnaviti, that is, the Sacred Thread should hang from the right shoulder.
At times he is called Niviti when the Sacred Thread is worn round the neck like a garland.
The thread should be lifted and the upper part should be put behind ears when a person goes for his daily ablutions or doing impure tasks.
Both males and females can wear the thread. However, the woman should wear it on the neck. Otherwise, she may wrap it on a naariyal (brown coconut), and place it in worship place.
After a birth or death in the family, it should be taken out and then a new thread should be worn 15 days after the event.
Old, or broken thread should be replaced etc.
HinduOfUniverse

In effect it seems you can make up any story - and that becomes the "culture".
 

.... Subsequently, the two-poonals on marriage, and three-poonals on birth of child might have been made so that merely by looking at a male person one can say whether he was married, etc. Of course, these are my personal guesses and there is nothing to substantiate these in our religious books AFAIK.
Shri Sangom,

Is the practice - three poonals on birth of child universal or do differences exist in this? Our vaadhyar said that boys whose father is alive should wear only two... even after birth of child.

Regards,
 
Shri Sangom,

Is the practice - three poonals on birth of child universal or do differences exist in this? Our vaadhyar said that boys whose father is alive should wear only two... even after birth of child.

Regards,

Shri auh,

There are variations, even within the same enlarged paternal family circle. Some people follow the custom which you cite, some others wear only one poonal of 3 strands throughout life. So, it's better to follow your family custom.
 

CHANDRU1849

Active member
Getting the explanation from one of the two junior seers in the same mutt would be more apt

than going in search of knowledgeable thAthA / pAtti !!


In which Mutt, do we have two junior Seers - Kanchi or Srigeri? Please tell.
 

Raji Ram

Active member
In which Mutt, do we have two junior Seers - Kanchi or Srigeri? Please tell.
Many consider only MahAperiyavA as the senior.

And this thread deals with an instruction from Kanchi mutt.
icon3.png
 

CHANDRU1849

Active member
Many consider only MahAperiyavA as the senior.

And this thread deals with an instruction from Kanchi mutt.
icon3.png


I think Kanchi Mutt is being treated as a Public Sector Undertaking - with Senior or Junior titles. Mahaperiava handed over the mantle ship to Jayendra Saraswathi who, in turn, transferred to Vijendra Saraswathi. Mahaperiava got it from his Senior. Then, how will you call his senior?

The present generation has placed Mahaperiava with high esteem with that Title, since it has come across his presence. Hence, there is no Senior or Junior titles.
 
Shri auh,

There are variations, even within the same enlarged paternal family circle. Some people follow the custom which you cite, some others wear only one poonal of 3 strands throughout life. So, it's better to follow your family custom.

Thanks for the reply, sir !
 

Raji Ram

Active member
I think Kanchi Mutt is being treated as a Public Sector Undertaking - with Senior or Junior titles. Mahaperiava handed over the mantle ship to Jayendra Saraswathi who, in turn, transferred to Vijendra Saraswathi. Mahaperiava got it from his Senior. Then, how will you call his senior?

The present generation has placed Mahaperiava with high esteem with that Title, since it has come across his presence. Hence, there is no Senior or Junior titles.
Thank you very much for enlightening me!
icon3.png


P.S: I don't like to be a fight monger! :)
 
This site has discussed a lot on the subject thread-bare. But the OT is a new or different question. But it is also a fact that there had been a few one-sided tug-of-war. Upaveedham is Sanskrit name for poonool –is it because of nool of poo, i.e to be handled as one will handle a poo. In the fifties DK people went on rampage on this account. Maybe they thought the simple string of threads was marked with “666”. அரண்டவன் கண்ணுக்கு இருண்டதெல்லாம் பேய்.
The threading (not the many threads we spin in this site) ceremony or Upanayanam is conducted at ordained time (now at convenient time). The function or the ceremony facilitates the initiation of the boy or BOY into learning process. He should qualify for the initiation and require an identity card or chord just as these days nursery students have. The thread (3-strands with Brahma knots and a piece of deer’s hide ( I do not know whether Maneka Gandhi allows it) is known as yangyOpaveedham. I request Sri Sangom sir to explain the words – Yangya + Upaveedham. The boy should learn Brahma Vidhya and become eligible or qualified to conduct Yangyam.
Upaveedhi is ‘style’ to wear the poonool. It should be worn by all from one’s left shoulder to his right flank reaching at least the pelvis bone. Now on occasions the style of wearing changes. When doing TarpaNam or other pitru karyangaL AFTER sankalpam we wear the poonool pracheena veedhi (wearing from right shoulder to left flank)and return to upaveedhi after finishing sankalpa kaaryam. During AavanNi Avittam generally people do Brahmayangyam. During that we do Deva Tarpanam wearing upaveedhi style. When doing Rishi Tarpanam we wear in ‘maala’ style and during Pitru Tarpanam we wear it in pracheena veedhi. At the end we return to Upaveedhi style. During receiving Aashirvadam we have the Angavastram flowing down from left shoulders and spread out at the other end between 2 hands.
I have also read the quote by somebody as to what Maha Muni advised that you may wear the poonal in Maala style if not engaged in any of the above occasions. I am not sure whether he said that one should wear in Mala style compulsorily. I think somebody asked Periyava this question.
Those days purohits explained that the set of 3 poonools consisting of 3-stranded pieces each represent a Veshti, an Angavastram and “kaipudi” thuni. Not convincing. Just imagine how Adam and Eve went about stark naked because there was no clothes available. When Abel was born the couple would have become possessive and got the ingenuity to wear strung leaves. Though only nool was available man must have learnt weaving the nools much later. Dyes and chemicals must have come still later. No wonder married women of that era might have worn white sarees with perhaps splashed turmeric. And yet wearing washed lungi, pants and banian (briefs are out of question) are considered sacrilegious by most people. It is these ideas of our tribe that portray us to be possessed. The NBs say as a saying “பாப்பானுக்கு பயித்தியம் பிடிச்சப்போலே.”. Many would wonder what I do. Me, do in Rome as Romans do. Sri Krishna said that change is inevitable in the universe. But we argue Krishna said those things to Arjuna.
Now going back poonool wearing style. In our domestic routine we are not supposed to do certain acts which are performed only during certain rites. There are many. When parents are alive you are not supposed tap your outside thighs. You cannot sit in sort of a padmasana position either like above. Like-wise you cannot wear your poonool in prachinaveedhi style at other times. I think then how come you wear “neeveedhi style” poonool unless you are next going to do pitru tarpanam. At least wearing upaveedhi style is upaveedham. Whichever way there are problems. Many people lose their poonool after doffing off their banian/dress particularly on getting up from bed. The poonool ‘elopes’ with your dress/undergarment. Of course next day the poonool smiles at you brightly having had a wash once. In those days vakils used to hang the poonool on the coat-stands. Unwashed poonool can attract fungus. Is it okay if you use bath-soap lathers to cleanse it of grime,etc? There may be many questions bugging. I can only quote “the purpose of educating a child is to enable him to get on without a teacher”. There is another saying probably in other groups:நாடறிந்த பாப்பானுக்கு பூணூல் எதற்கு? Past was present, present was future and future would be past after being present. I have not intended to hurt anyone or challenge the learned but only attempted to say that we should not miss the core.
 
தேவகாரியமும் பித்ரு காரியமும்

தேவகாரியமும் பித்ரு காரியமும்

தெய்வ காரியங்களுக்கு பக்தி வேண்டும். பித்ரு காரியங்களுக்கு சிரத்தை வேண்டும். பக்தியோடு செய்வது யக்ஞம்; சிரத்தையோடு செய்வது சிராத்தம்.

தெய்வகாரியங்களைப் பண்ணும்போது சிகையை நன்றாக முடிந்து கொண்டு, யக்ஞோபவீதம் (பூணூல்) இடது தோளில் இருக்கும்படியாக, சிரத்தையோடு செய்ய வேண்டும்.
இதற்காகத்தான் சிகை, யக்ஞோபவீதம் இரண்டும் இருக்கின்றன. சந்நியாசிகளுக்கு இவை இரண்டும் இல்லை.

பித்ரு காரியத்தையும், பல தேவதைகளின் உபாஸனையையும் விட்டுவிட்டு, நேரே பரமாத்ம உபாஸனையை எந்தவிதமான லௌகிக அபேக்ஷயும் இன்றிச் செய்பவர்கள் அவர்கள். நேராகவே கடவுளிடம் போகிற பிற மதஸ்தர்களுக்கும் சிகை, யக்ஞோபவீதம் இல்லை.

ஏன் இப்படித் தேவர்களுக்கு இடது தோளில் பூணூலோடும், பித்ருக்களுக்கு வலது தோளில் பூணூலோடும் காரியம் பண்ணி வேண்டும் என்று சொல்கிறேன்:

கிழக்கு முகமாக இருந்து கொண்டே காரியங்களைச் செய்ய வேண்டும். வடக்கு தேவர்களிடம் போகிற திசை, உத்தராயனம் என்பது அதுதான். உத்தரம் என்றால் வடக்கு. தெற்குதான் பித்ருக்கள் இருக்கும் பக்கம். ' தென்புலத்தார் ' என்று திருவள்ளுவர்கூடச் சொல்கிறாரல்லவா? தக்ஷிணம் என்றால் தெற்கு. தக்ஷிணாயனம் என்பது பித்ரு லோக மார்க்கம்.....

' உத்தராயணம் ' என்பதில் மூன்று சுழி ' ண ' போட்டும்,
' தக்ஷிணாயனம் ' என்னும்போது இரண்டு சுழி ' ன ' என்பது
' ண ' வாக மாறிவிடும். இது வியாகரண விதி. தற்காலத்தில் மனம் போனபடி பத்திரிகைகளில் எழுதுவதால் இதைச் சொல்ல நேர்ந்தது.

உத்தராயண தேவ மார்க்கத்தையும், தக்ஷிணாயன பித்ரு மார்க்கத்தையும் பற்றிப் பகவான் கீதையில் சொல்லியிருக்கிறார். நாம் கிழக்குமுகமாக இருந்துகொண்டு பித்ரு காரியம் பண்ணும்போது, எந்தத் தோள் தெற்குப் பக்கமாக இருக்கிறது? வலது தோள்தான். அதனால்தான் பித்ரு காரியத்தில் யக்ஞோபவீதம் அந்தத் தோளின்மேல் இருக்கும்படியாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும் என்பது.

" பிரதக்ஷணம் பண்ணுவது" என்கிறோமே, இதற்குக் கூட தக்ஷிண (தெற்கு) திசையை நோக்கி என்றுதான் அர்த்தம். முக்காலே மூன்றுவாசிக் கோயில்களில் ராஜகோபுரம் கிழக்குப் பார்த்தான் இருக்கும். அதற்குள் நுழைந்து நாம் பிரதக்ஷிணம் ஆரம்பிக்கும்போது, முதலில் தெற்குப் பார்க்கத்தான் போவோம்.

இதே மாதிரி, நாம் கிழக்குமுகமாக இருந்துகொண்டு தேவகாரியம் பண்ணும்போது, தேவர்களின் திசையான வடக்கு திசையைப் பார்க்க இருப்பது நம்முடைய இடது தோள்தான். அதனால்தான், தேவ காரியங்களில் பூணூல் இடது தோள்தான். அதனால்தான், தேவ காரியங்களில் பூணூல் இடது தோள்மேல் இருக்க வேண்டும் என்பது.

தேவகாரியம், பித்ரு காரியம் இரண்டும் செய்யாத மற்ற வேளைகளில், அதாவது உத்யோக வேளை முதலானதுகளின் போது, பூணூலை ஒரு தோளின் மேலேயும் இல்லாமல், கழுத்திலிருந்தே மாலைமாதிரித் தொங்கவிட்டுக் கொள்ள வேண்டும். இதை யாரும் அனுஸரிக்கக் காணோம். பித்ரு காரியம் தவிர மற்ற எல்லா ஸமயங்களிலும் இடது தோள் மேலேயே யக்ஞோபவீதத்தைப் போட்டுக் கொள்கிறார்கள்.

தேவ காரியத்தின் போது இடது தோளுக்கு மேல் பூணூல் இருப்பதற்கு ' யக்ஞோபவீதம் ' என்றும், பித்ரு காரியத்தின் போது வலது தோளுக்கு மேல் இருப்பதற்கு ' ப்ராசீனாவீதம் ' என்றும், மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான லோக காரியங்கள் செய்யும் மற்ற எல்லா ஸமயத்திலும் மாலை மாதிரித் தொங்குவதற்கு

' நிவீதம் ' என்றும் பெயர். பிருஹதாரண்யக உபநிஷத்தில் ஒரு ஞானி இந்த எல்லாத் தினுஸுக் கர்மாக்களையும் விட்டு விட்டுப் பிச்சைக்கார ஸந்நியாஸியாகப் புறப்படுவதைப் பற்றி வருகிறது. ( III.5.1) .


அதற்கு ஆசார்யாள் பாஷ்யம் பண்ணும் போது, தேவ-பித்ரு-மநுஷ்ய கர்மாக்களை பண்ணுவதற்காகவே க்ருஹஸ்தனுக்குப் பூணூல் இருக்கிறதென்றும், எனவே, இந்த கர்மாக்களை விட்டுவிட்ட ஸந்நியாஸிக்குப் பூணூல் கிடையாதென்றும் ச்ருதி வாக்யங்களைக் காட்டி ஸ்தாபிக்கிறார். அந்த அலசலில், " நிவீதம் மநுஷ்யாணாம் " - மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான காரியத்தின்போது (பூணூலை) மாலையாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். என்று ச்ருதி ப்ரமாணமே இருப்பதாகக் காட்டியிருக்கிறார். ஆனாலும் நடைமுறையில் பலகாலமாகவே அந்த வழக்கம் எடுபட்டுப் போயிருக்கிறது.
 
நமஸ்காரங்கள்இஙகே பெரியவா உத்யோக வேளை என்று சொல்ல காரணம் என்ன? சாதாரணமாக நாம் உத்யோகத்திற்கு செல்லும் போது பூணலுக்கு மேல் பனியன் சட்டை எல்லாம் போட்டுக்கொள்கிறோம். அலுவலகத்தில் மலஜலம் கழிக்கும்போது பூணல் நிவீதி போட்டுக்கொள்ள முடியாது. இதனாலேயே உத்யோக வேளையில் முன்கூட்டியே மாலையாக போட்டுக்கொள்ள சொல்லப்பட்டிருக்கிறது. உத்யோக வேளையின் போது நாம் தேவ பித்ரு காரியங்கள் செய்வதில்லை.
 
Just one point and very important one at that

The Poonool should be worn in Upaveetham while sexual intercourse aimed at giving birth to a child (creation of vaarisu). It should be worn Niveetham when sexual intercourse done for pleasure

This is very important as (y)our children only going to represent TB in future world
 
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