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பூணூல் மாலையாக போடவேண்டும் - A Controversial topic

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பூணூல் மாலையாக போடவேண்டும் - A Controversial topic

We can see that all the present day tambrahms are wearing the Poonal criss cross . However sastra's are very clear that we have to wear Poonal only as a "Mala"

Poonal can be worn in three ways explains Kanchi Paramacharya in Deivathin Kural Part II. The ideal way he says is to wear it as a "Mala"
???????????? ?????? ????????? : ( ??????????? ????? - ???????? ????? ) : kamakoti.org:

I had read this 2 months and had changed wearing my Poonal as "Mala". For me when Periyava says, it is final. I don't have to go and look at the sastra's. He is the sastra's himself. I have been questioned by many of my relatives about the change. I found it difficult to explain that the right way is THIS. But stood my ground and explained them. Thanks periyava for giving me the courage to change to "what is right".

I don't want long explanations what sastra says etc etc. ACTION is better than 1000 words.

TAMBRAHMS: I have changed...Let me know if you have changed it to "Mala". Otherwise please explain why you are not wear it as a "Mala". Some of the answers can be

a. It has been like this, hence so be it
b. It tough to change (...LOL)
c. It is very difficult to explain to others (Is it?)
d. My acharya's and others have not opined on this (Ask them please..)
e. There is no procedure how to change this (Oh god..)

Don't we have the courage atleast to do this SIMPLE CHANGE..??

This forum is practical!!..Is it? Let us see how many have changed as "Mala" from the responses..
 
my son at his inlaws place was asked to change his poonool on avaniavittam

he was in a predicament . He had a hard time explaining that he was not wearing a poonool in the first place .

Iwill ask him whether he will wear it like a mala to enable a response to this interesting post.lol
 
If he was not wearing poonal...how did he get married? And can you please explain the reason for "lol" at the end of your reply.
 
We can see that all the present day tambrahms are wearing the Poonal criss cross . However sastra's are very clear that we have to wear Poonal only as a "Mala"

Poonal can be worn in three ways explains Kanchi Paramacharya in Deivathin Kural Part II. The ideal way he says is to wear it as a "Mala"
???????????? ?????? ????????? : ( ??????????? ????? - ???????? ????? ) : kamakoti.org:

I had read this 2 months and had changed wearing my Poonal as "Mala". For me when Periyava says, it is final. I don't have to go and look at the sastra's. He is the sastra's himself. I have been questioned by many of my relatives about the change. I found it difficult to explain that the right way is THIS. But stood my ground and explained them. Thanks periyava for giving me the courage to change to "what is right".

I don't want long explanations what sastra says etc etc. ACTION is better than 1000 words.

TAMBRAHMS: I have changed...Let me know if you have changed it to "Mala". Otherwise please explain why you are not wear it as a "Mala". Some of the answers can be

a. It has been like this, hence so be it
b. It tough to change (...LOL)
c. It is very difficult to explain to others (Is it?)
d. My acharya's and others have not opined on this (Ask them please..)
e. There is no procedure how to change this (Oh god..)

Don't we have the courage atleast to do this SIMPLE CHANGE..??

This forum is practical!!..Is it? Let us see how many have changed as "Mala" from the responses..

The statement in that Deivathin Kural viz.," நிவீதம் மநுஷ்யாணாம் " - மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான காரியத்தின்போது (பூணூலை) மாலையாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். என்று ச்ருதி ப்ரமாணமே இருப்பதாகக் காட்டியிருக்கிறார்., is or has been held by our ancient tambrahms as meaning "when one does religious rites for other humans" just on the lines of doing pithrujarmas and Devapoojas or Deva Kaaryams. If you go through the details of after-death ceremonies, you find in several places the Kartha is required to have neeveetham. In respect of other brahmanas the usual practice is and has been, for a long, long time, that when you come in contact with a dead body (like carrying the body or the stretcher on which it is placed, accompanying a dead body to the cremation ground, etc., we wear our poonal as a garland.

By convention and practice among the vast majority of tabras, your wearing the poonal as a garland will look like a bad omen to most people and they may suspect some death in your family or close relatives and that you have not yet takken bath (and changed your poonal) after attending some death ceremony.

Now, you have taken the advice about Poonal. But what about Shikhai? Should we not follow the prescriptions relating to that also?
 
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Dear Sangom Sir,

I apologize, I give below the quote given by paramacharya..The bolded part is clear..Is it not?

தேவகாரியம், பித்ரு காரியம் இரண்டும் செய்யாத மற்ற வேளைகளில், அதாவது உத்யோக வேளை முதலானதுகளின் போது, பூணூலை ஒரு தோளின் மேலேயும் இல்லாமல், கழுத்திலிருந்தே மாலைமாதிரித் தொங்கவிட்டுக் கொள்ள வேண்டும். இதை யாரும் அனுஸரிக்கக் காணோம். பித்ரு காரியம் தவிர மற்ற எல்லா ஸமயங்களிலும் இடது தோள் மேலேயே யக்ஞோபவீதத்தைப் போட்டுக் கொள்கிறார்கள்.

தேவ காரியத்தின் போது இடது தோளுக்கு மேல் பூணூல் இருப்பதற்கு ' யக்ஞோபவீதம் ' என்றும், பித்ரு காரியத்தின் போது வலது தோளுக்கு மேல் இருப்பதற்கு ' ப்ராசீனாவீதம் ' என்றும், மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான லோக காரியங்கள் செய்யும் மற்ற எல்லா ஸமயத்திலும் மாலை மாதிரித் தொங்குவதற்கு ' நிவீதம் ' என்றும் பெயர். பிருஹதாரண்யக உபநிஷத்தில் ஒரு ஞானி இந்த எல்லாத் தினுஸுக் கர்மாக்களையும் விட்டு விட்டுப் பிச்சைக்கார ஸந்நியாஸியாகப் புறப்படுவதைப் பற்றி வருகிறது. ( III.5.1) . அதற்கு ஆசார்யாள் பாஷ்யம் பண்ணும் போது, தேவ-பித்ரு-மநுஷ்ய கர்மாக்களை பண்ணுவதற்காகவே க்ருஹஸ்தனுக்குப் பூணூல் இருக்கிறதென்றும், எனவே, இந்த கர்மாக்களை விட்டுவிட்ட ஸந்நியாஸிக்குப் பூணூல் கிடையாதென்றும் ச்ருதி வாக்யங்களைக் காட்டி ஸ்தாபிக்கிறார். அந்த அலசலில், " நிவீதம் மநுஷ்யாணாம் " - மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான காரியத்தின்போது (பூணூலை) மாலையாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். என்று ச்ருதி ப்ரமாணமே இருப்பதாகக் காட்டியிருக்கிறார். ஆனாலும் நடைமுறையில் பஹ§காலமாகவே அந்த வழக்கம் எடுபட்டுப் போயிருக்கிறது.

மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான காரியத்தின்போது (பூணூலை) மாலையாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். - Meaning while doing the household work, office work etc he meant.

I think our understanding and practice is wrong here.. Can you please explain more..
 
Dear Sangom Sir,

I apologize, I give below the quote given by paramacharya..The bolded part is clear..Is it not?

தேவகாரியம், பித்ரு காரியம் இரண்டும் செய்யாத மற்ற வேளைகளில், அதாவது உத்யோக வேளை முதலானதுகளின் போது, பூணூலை ஒரு தோளின் மேலேயும் இல்லாமல், கழுத்திலிருந்தே மாலைமாதிரித் தொங்கவிட்டுக் கொள்ள வேண்டும். இதை யாரும் அனுஸரிக்கக் காணோம். பித்ரு காரியம் தவிர மற்ற எல்லா ஸமயங்களிலும் இடது தோள் மேலேயே யக்ஞோபவீதத்தைப் போட்டுக் கொள்கிறார்கள்.

தேவ காரியத்தின் போது இடது தோளுக்கு மேல் பூணூல் இருப்பதற்கு ' யக்ஞோபவீதம் ' என்றும், பித்ரு காரியத்தின் போது வலது தோளுக்கு மேல் இருப்பதற்கு ' ப்ராசீனாவீதம் ' என்றும், மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான லோக காரியங்கள் செய்யும் மற்ற எல்லா ஸமயத்திலும் மாலை மாதிரித் தொங்குவதற்கு ' நிவீதம் ' என்றும் பெயர். பிருஹதாரண்யக உபநிஷத்தில் ஒரு ஞானி இந்த எல்லாத் தினுஸுக் கர்மாக்களையும் விட்டு விட்டுப் பிச்சைக்கார ஸந்நியாஸியாகப் புறப்படுவதைப் பற்றி வருகிறது. ( III.5.1) . அதற்கு ஆசார்யாள் பாஷ்யம் பண்ணும் போது, தேவ-பித்ரு-மநுஷ்ய கர்மாக்களை பண்ணுவதற்காகவே க்ருஹஸ்தனுக்குப் பூணூல் இருக்கிறதென்றும், எனவே, இந்த கர்மாக்களை விட்டுவிட்ட ஸந்நியாஸிக்குப் பூணூல் கிடையாதென்றும் ச்ருதி வாக்யங்களைக் காட்டி ஸ்தாபிக்கிறார். அந்த அலசலில், " நிவீதம் மநுஷ்யாணாம் " - மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான காரியத்தின்போது (பூணூலை) மாலையாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். என்று ச்ருதி ப்ரமாணமே இருப்பதாகக் காட்டியிருக்கிறார். ஆனாலும் நடைமுறையில் பஹ§காலமாகவே அந்த வழக்கம் எடுபட்டுப் போயிருக்கிறது.

மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான காரியத்தின்போது (பூணூலை) மாலையாகப் போட்டுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். - Meaning while doing the household work, office work etc he meant.

I think our understanding and practice is wrong here.. Can you please explain more..

Srimadhan sir,

I understood the portion well. What I wanted to convey was that the expression மநுஷ்யர்களுக்கான லோக காரியங்கள் செய்யும் has been interpreted by our elders and, possibly by those who wrote our Grihya Sutras, like Aapasthambar, etc., to mean times when we are required to do religion-prescribed duties to neither the Devas, nor our Pithrus; that will take us to Praetha Kaaryams only. Among our people here, the poonal is to be worn as a garland-like when we perform the Thila Tharpanam for a deceased person on the 10th. day. I do not know the custom elsewhere. This is because, on the tenth day we are offering sesame & water to the "praetha" of the dead person ( as per our religious beliefs) and not to a pithru.

I have respect for the Kanchi Periyaval but since he has not cited any smriti for his conclusion and since I believe that our smrithi/grihya sutra kartas were of equal eminence and greatness it is better to follow the custom observed by brahmins universally instead of depending solely on a sentence by the Periyaval.

If you trace the origins of "Yajnopaveetham" into the vedic times, you will find that the word itself means "an upper cloth (specially) for yajna that is, the vedic sacrifices"; it does not refer to three threads or nine threads alone. Since all those vedic sacrifices (Yaagas) required the yajamaanan and the other priests to work for long hours in the close vicinity of burning fire (especially when the "vapaa" of the sacrificial animal/s were offered to Agni, it is possible that those ancient people rolled up their upper clothes as much as possible like what Namboothiris do even now before performing any vedic or special duties/poojas/functions in temples. With passage of time this could have transformed into the present custom of spun threads with Brahma Mudichu etc.

Further, a brahmin's daily routine required him to be engaged with Deva Kaaryams right from pre-dawn till the noon when he was required to take his meals, which again involved Parishechanam, an offering to Brahman (ப்ரஹ்மணே ஸ்வாஹா - brahmaṇe svāhā) and hence became a deva kaarya. On days in which pithru kaaryams like Shraaddham, Maasikam, etc., were to be performed, the meal was postponed till the completion of the pithru karma was over and finally the person changed his poonal on to his left shoulder and recited "Kaayena vaachaa... etc." Again the evening Sandhyaavandanam is to be performed so that arghyam is offered before the sunset, and then the gaayathree japam and other japams like Vishnusahasranaamam, various Sookthams, Rakshoghnam & Aprathiratham etc., have to be recited, etc. Hence there will be hardly any time for a true brahmin to wear his poonal as garland even if we follow Periyaval's advice. In any case, Dharma Saastras prescribe the "poonal as maalai" during sexual intercourse.

Coming to Shikhai, every true brahmin is required to keep hair only on an area of about his palm, just surrounding the vortex or Chuzhi on his head and clean shave the rest. The hair on the prescribed area is never to be cut or shaved but tied up as the tuft. Here again, there were Munkudumi brahmins who shaved the rear portions of the head. Don't you think we should follow the correct norms for the pigtail (Kudumi) also if we are to be true brahmins and not counterfeit brahmins as we seem to be today?
 

Raji Ram

Active member
Once a brahmin wanted to participate in the upAkarmA ceremony held in batches, at a river bank.

He was not wearing his poonool for a long time and hence wanted his servant to find out how to wear it

- on the right or left shoulder! The servant went to that place and returned totally confused! He said politely,

''theriyaleenga sAmi! oruvAtti ippadip podarAnga; innoruvAtti appadip podarAnga!!'
 
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Sangom Sir

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. I am sure if Paramacharya says that "The practice of wearing generally is mala", I think he must have read it himself somewhere.

Also, recently a sanskrit scholar who met my Periyappa (75 years old) in a temple what kanchi periyava said. My periyappa couldn't remember who he was.

If knowledgeable thattha/patti or anyone, can explain where from he picked up it would be helpful.

Nowadays most of the tamil brahmins do not spend considerable time PRACTICALLY (as you have explained). Hence would it not be PRACTICALLY correct to wear it as a Mala.

Kudumi: After this post, I am thinking that I should take it up as my next post and action as well. I am sure that for everything we do (like the poonal) we give an explanation that satisfies our doings. Some might say what is the use of kudumi..etc etc. Let us wait and watch..
 
I totally agree with you, There is no other explanation or refusal for Guru word, when he qouts it must be right. I will follow his word


Ramanathan Krishnan

Chennai
che
che
 

Raji Ram

Active member
........... If knowledgeable thattha/patti or anyone, can explain where from he picked up it would be helpful. ..
Getting the explanation from one of the two junior seers in the same mutt would be more apt

than going in search of knowledgeable thAthA / pAtti !!
 
Normally Poonool is worn ,with one end on rt. side When occasion demands, we do Prachinaveedam & then back to Upaveedam. If Sri Periaval had mentioned --what you have written, please read again if there is any Rider ?

Rishikesan
 
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Normally poonool is to be worn as "Mala" that is what Periyava quotes. Neevitham is the right way to wear a Poonool.

He says that we all are wearing it one end on the left shoulder and the other on the right hip.
 
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For Devakariyam, Poonal has to be worn from Left Shoulder to Right Hip
For Pitrukaryam, Poonal has to be worn from Right Shoulder to Left Hip

For Manusha karyam like doing office work, household work etc, Poonal has to be worn as Mala
 
The sacred thread (yagnopaveetam or Poonal, as it is called in Tamil) is bestowed upon an eligible brahmachari with the blessings of Guru(s), Parents and many other pundits, and is never to be removed.

The Sastras prescribe different ways of wearing the sacred thread, based on the situation we are in. Here is an extract from Wiki:

Ancient texts refer to the wearing of the Yajñopavītam in three forms:
- Upavītam, where the Yajñopavītam is worn over the left shoulder and under the right arm. This is for Gods. Upavītam is also called savya (Katyayana Shrauta Sutra, etc.).
- Nivītam', where the Yajñopavītam is worn around the neck and over the chest. Nivīta form is to be used during Rishi Tharpana, sexual intercourse, answering the calls of nature, etc., and during ancestor worship/funeral rites (Shadvimsha Brahmana, Latyayana, etc.).
- Prachīnavītam is where the Yajñopavītam is worn above the right shoulder and under the left arm. This is for Spirits and is used by men when performing the death ceremonies of an elder. Prachīnavītam is also called apsavya (Katyayana Shrauta Sutra, Manusmriti, etc.).

I also recall reading somewhere in Deivathin Kural about how Periva makes it easy for us to remember the different ways of wearing it. So simple - just read this rough translation below.

When you sit facing east (as you would normally do for any poojas), your left shoulder would be pointing to north - North is a direction of the Devas, and you would wear the Poonal on the left shoulder (Upaveetam), pointing to the Devas when you do things related to them.

While sitting in the same posture (towards east), your right shoulder would be pointing to South, and South is the direction of Pitrus. So, any kind of karmas done for the Pitrus should be done with the Poonal on the right shoulder (prachinaveetam)

When you are doing other lowkeeka (worldly) karmas, the entire karmas are just focused around you - yourself only. And hence the sacred thread can be worn around your neck (worn over both shoulders - like a garland), instead of focusing on Pitrus or Devas, you are focusing it on Humans including Rishis (also applies to karmas done for your own self).
 
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PJ sir

Nice summary. The question here is about knowing to some extent

FOLLOWING it is the question. Needs Courage ofcourse
 
Sri Sridharan sir

I also discussed this issue with Sasthrigal, He says, it is how he also does it.


Raji Madam,


My reply is based on Kanchi Periyava Forum answered by senior moderator.
 
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Do you remember this, Sir?

I am awaiting your post after you meet the seers of Kanchi mutt. :)

Raji Madam

I am not "So Big" to influence someone to ask these questions. I am a "Nobody".. I don't have any connections as wellI am sure I will approach them in Kanchi when I go there. I am not sure when I will go due to my training and other commitments in Chennai.

PJ sir has responded that the Sastrigal has stated the same. Will request PJ sir to throw us some light on this as well
 
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Sri Sridharan sir

I also discussed this issue with Sasthrigal, He says, it is how he also does it.

Dear PJ Sir

I had written to few MUTTS. But they insist on seeing something concrete in the Smruthi and Vedas.

If possible, can you please request the Sastrigal to throw us some light on how he has garned this information.

Also if possible, request the senior modertor of Kanchi Paramachary forum to give us more details.

Thanks very much sir.

Once we get this, we will have to take this up with all the "MUTT heads" and "Press" as well.
 
Sri Sridharan sir

I also discussed this issue with Sasthrigal, He says, it is how he also does it.


Raji Madam,


My reply is based on Kanchi Periyava Forum answered by senior moderator.

Dear PJ,

Is it possible to find out when and why the Yajnopaveetham (Poonal) became a simple 3-6-9 strands of cotton yarn instead of being an "upaveetham" or upper cloth?
 
# 18 is clear as it cogently explains in simple terms, what we practically practice . My point is , when this is being practised by ALL. ( different from Acharyas/ Sadhus Etc ), & no inconvenience is experienced, why to ask people to wear it as MALAI ? I fee Maalai may not be as convenient as Upaveedam. It is like opening of Pondora's Box , at this inappropriate time, when Tamil brahmins are reluctant & mjority do not even regularly wear Poonool, let alone performing Sandhyavandanam.?
Rishi. One of our veteran has chosen to lengthen the Topic , by raising , related / relevant query as to when exactly Poonal with 3 strands/ & single/ Double etc.
O. K. Let us have Fun, even if nothing useful comes out ?
Rishikesan
 
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