Why some karmAs are to be performed only in India?

[renuka]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) WhatsApp Email Share Link

NBs funeral processions of NB seniors accompanied by thara thappattai ,oppari groups, dancing along with kanneer anjali posters are common in chennai.

.

This does not happen here...no such practices here...thank God!LOL

 

[tks]

Just read the opening post.


The response to such a question has to do with level of beliefs one has versus if one is committed to reason and understanding.

If it is pure belief there is no logic possible to say which belief is better. Also there are million variations to responses subject to who such a question is asked. More often than not the person posing such a question (I do not mean Smt RR) may be driven by insecurity of facing the wrath of some Papa karma or Shapam etc . I have no response to such belief driven question.

If the person posing such a question is available for reason and understanding then the response is that one must (regardless of their caste, creed, national origin etc) should perform what is equivalent to Shraddam every year and do the Pitr Karyams after death. Person carrying out the cremation need not be the ultimate Kartha but the one doing 1 to 12 days is. The 13th Day of Griha Yagnam is fine but not the most significant part anyway. Abbreviating these for convenience is not about Shraddha.

People who are not Hindus can follow their own customs but it is the attitude that is important.

Locations, specific customs are not the significant though one should follow one's tradition. For TB they can do prescribed Karmas within reason and abilities.

This perspective has to do with Vedic reasoning behind declaring Shraddahm etc as Naimitthika karma. There are reasons provided for this in the thread on Sandhyavandanam in the Philosphy sections.

 

[tbs]

We Non Brahmins out here do not have priests for funeral rites..the TB priests out here do not do funeral rites for a NB.

So all these while we depend on a person who is not a priest for funeral rites and its just recital of Tamil Sivapuranam and a host of totally unvedic funeral rites which is deemed more in superstition.

Many Non Brahmins here have taken the bold step to do away with such services and many conduct simple funerals by bathing the body..putting new clothes..lighting lamp and recital of prayers,bhajans,self recital of select Geeta shlokas and some select mantras and off to the electric crematorium

At least its much better than some superstitious rites done by a non priest.

But for the day 13th or day 16th prayer depending on caste of the NB the TB priests comes for that.

hi

according gita/vedanta.....soul takes another body immediately after death according to previous karma....so ....is it

neccessary for 13th or 16th day prayer?...just curious...

 

[renuka]

hi

according gita/vedanta.....soul takes another body immediately after death according to previous karma....so ....is it

neccessary for 13th or 16th day prayer?...just curious...

Geeta does not talk about a time frame as when the soul takes a new body..so no idea if its immediately.

But if birth process for a human takes 40 weeks to develop into a full term baby...I wonder if the process of death to birth again takes sometime..after all the soul has to shed its previous subtle body in order to take a new body.

BTW if what you say is true that one gets instant re birth than why so much obsession with Pitr Karyam?

Pitr Loka would be empty cos no one would be stationed there!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear T K S Sir,

I have belief in previous birth, but only after I spent about four decades on Earth and had some experience - after seeing

good persons suffering in old age, for years together and no so good persons having anAyAsa maraNam! My concern is

because many N R Is suffer because of the instruction from the head of a mutt and it needs to be changed by the present

Guru. It will not happen, I know. But, I wanted to get the ideas from our forum members and hence I opened this thread.

Thanks for your nice post! :thumb:

 

[Raji Ram]

.......1. BTW if what you say is true that one gets instant re birth than why so much obsession with Pitr Karyam?

2. Pitr Loka would be empty cos no one would be stationed there!LOL

Dear Renu,

1. In olden days brahmins had to live only by doing vaidheekam and unless these are enforced, they will not have enough earnings!

Now a days, most of the children in vaideeka families are highly educated and only the very poor brahmin kids are in Vedapatasala.

BTW, it takes about a fortnight to get over any grief. Once the 'subam' is done, the members in the family will resume their routine

with ease. May be that is the reason for the 13 / 16 days karmAs.

2. Does Pitr Loka include narakam? If so, it will be filled with persons, taking the punishments according to GP !! :whip:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

1. In olden days brahmins had to live only by doing vaidheekam and unless these are enforced, they will not have enough earnings!

Now a days, most of the children in vaideeka families are highly educated and only the very poor brahmin kids are in Vedapatasala.

BTW, it takes about a fortnight to get over any grief. Once the 'subam' is done, the members in the family will resume their routine

with ease. May be that is the reason for the 13 / 16 days karmAs.

2. Does Pitr Loka include narakam? If so, it will be filled with persons, taking the punishments according to GP !! :whip:

Dear RR ji,

Other cultures too have similar beliefs of offering food/prayers to departed ancestors but the difference is the priest does not get involved. People just go to graves..offer food and recite some prayers on their own.


Pitr loka should have a Narakam faculty I guess..makes sense.

I am not really a Garuda Purana specialist....lets wait for a Yama Duta to reply!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Hinduism has facilitated the easy survival of the priests by such beliefs. :thumb:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Hinduism has facilitated the easy survival of the priests by such beliefs. :thumb:

Dear RR ji,

Other religion priests/imam are not lone rangers..they are employed by a church or mosque or temples and do not have to live in poverty.

But out here most TB priests are quite rich..one TB priests from India has taken a local NB wife too and brought his 1st wife and 1st wives children all here and all are living here in one house and children are all well placed and working.
NB wife has become veg after marrying him.

He drives a Mercedes Benz!

He is very much sought after cos not many TB priests are here.

 

[krish44]

TB priests who know mantras alone cannot do well in modern days.

They need to have multiple talents.

They need to be good organisers , leaders of team of shishyas , have good human relations, good to make commercial decisions to charge according to the market

conditions.

These types are rolling in wealth.

All this talk about priests not being well off is about the last 10% laggards.

There are as many bad priests as bad engineers.

 

[Raji Ram]

You have left the most important point, Krish Sir! :spy:
Their clients should all be affluent people!! opcorn:

 

[Raji Ram]

Recently, Ram's N R I niece had to shell out nearly Rs. 3 lakhs for the last rites + the 13 day rituals for her dear mother.

The new additions in dhAnam items were a dozen each in three-in-one pressure cookers (three different sized ones

with two fitting lids), plastic containers to hold 10 kg rice and three piece maNai palagais. The demand included silver
cups to hold the nava dhAnyams for navagraha homam and gold bracelet for the main sAsthrigaL. :faint:

 

[GANESH65]

Recently, Ram's N R I niece had to shell out nearly Rs. 3 lakhs for the last rites + the 13 day rituals for her dear mother.

The new additions in dhAnam items were a dozen each in three-in-one pressure cookers (three different sized ones

with two fitting lids), plastic containers to hold 10 kg rice and three piece maNai palagais. The demand included silver
cups to hold the nava dhAnyams for navagraha homam and gold bracelet for the main sAsthrigaL. :faint:

OMG!! Exorbitant!! What do Gold bracelet do with death related functions? Gold dhanam is normal but this is three much!!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Ganesh Sir,

The following month, the sAsthrigaL demanded Rs. 1000/ for each of the 3 participants on each day. But, my brother in law

said that these expenses are NOT paid by his daughter and asked for a 50% discount. Then, the reduced amount was fixed!

 

[GANESH65]

Discounts! Now it is Vadhyars turn to become Corporates !!

 

[tks]

If a Vadhyar has to have a reasonable living supporting a family of four (and assuming his wife is not earning much ) he has to bring home about $90K a year or so. This is not much given he has to pay for his health insurance, home mortgage, save for children's education and save for retirement. Such fellows usually dodge paying much in taxes because it is a business.

They work many hours, often taking multiple jobs to bring home about $7.5 K per month. But then many months are dry and there are not special events all the time. That means they have to bring home about $10K per month over porductve months. They drive all over and travel to very far away places just to do a function.

Considering the skills involved in making all this happen in a remote land their fee is not unreasonable. Our TB types tend to be sort of stingy and do not respect their work as a legitimate profession. So they may book a Sastrigal and few days before will cancel. These people do not know how to take advance etc. so they lose another potential earning. This has made many to be very demanding.

The issue in USA and other places is that many are unqualified and mumble nonsense. But they are still in demand because the clientele is also clueless

 

[renuka]

Recently, Ram's N R I niece had to shell out nearly Rs. 3 lakhs for the last rites + the 13 day rituals for her dear mother.

The new additions in dhAnam items were a dozen each in three-in-one pressure cookers (three different sized ones

with two fitting lids), plastic containers to hold 10 kg rice and three piece maNai palagais. The demand included silver
cups to hold the nava dhAnyams for navagraha homam and gold bracelet for the main sAsthrigaL. :faint:

Dear RR ji,

At least the cups were bought by your niece.

I once had to buy a silver cup for some additional rites after the demise of an in- law.

The priest told me to just give him the money for it cos he would buy the cup himself.

When he came with the silver cup...it was dented and looked old and stained.

I had paid for his flight cos he was from a different state..then when he showed me the cup he said that it got dented in the plane when his bag was stored in the luggage section and he said someone must have thrown his luggage.

I knew he was not telling me the truth cos he came only with hand luggage..and no one throws hand luggage.

So for nothing at all he got free money from me...cos if I had bought the silver cup myself he would have got just a silver cup but if he recycles his old cup claiming he bought it and its new he gets extra money.

I never call him anymore now for any event cos I wonder how he could sit and do Homa after lying to me.

BTW the event needed sarees and gold too and he called me to tell me what type of silk sarees he wants..he was placing order I guess his wife wanted only certain types!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear T K S Sir,

My son has an AsthAna priest from New Hampshire and he talks chaste Tamil and does elaborate poojAs. :thumb:

We were very happy with the Ayush Homam he performed for my second granddaughter, during our recent visit

to Boston. His fee is only $ 150 + fuel charges, which appeared very nominal.

He had brought his 8 year old son along with him and told us that he knows many slOkams. I was curious and asked

the kid to recite a few. He replied, 'Oh, no! I appear weird and so I forgot all of them!'

 

[renuka]

He had brought his 8 year old son along with him and told us that he knows many slOkams. I was curious and asked

the kid to recite a few. He replied, 'Oh, no! I appear weird and so I forgot all of them!'

OMG RR Ji!

You are bullying an 8 year old! You are testing his knowledge instead of encouraging him...poor kid...no wonder he forgot!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Recycling is the order of the day! In Sing. Chennai, this sort of recycling happens.

SAstrigaLs also know how to 'replace' items with money. Go dhAnam = money placed over a mattai thEngAy and

bhoo dhAnam = money placed over a sandal wood piece. Recently, for a seemantham function, cow and calf could not

be brought! So, a coconut was 'made' as a calf and the manthrams recited!

I had to give a blue color vEshti as dhAnam to a poor brahmin and he asked me to give it without removing the price tag

and the receipt for money paid. This is because he wanted to exchange it for a saffron color vEshti, in the same shop!

What an idea, Sir Ji!!

 

[athimber]

Dear RR ji,

At least the cups were bought by your niece.

I once had to buy a silver cup for some additional rites after the demise of an in- law.

The priest told me to just give him the money for it cos he would buy the cup himself.

When he came with the silver cup...it was dented and looked old and stained.

I had paid for his flight cos he was from a different state..then when he showed me the cup he said that it got dented in the plane when his bag was stored in the luggage section and he said someone must have thrown his luggage.

I knew he was not telling me the truth cos he came only with hand luggage..and no one throws hand luggage.

So for nothing at all he got free money from me...cos if I had bought the silver cup myself he would have got just a silver cup but if he recycles his old cup claiming he bought it and its new he gets extra money.

I never call him anymore now for any event cos I wonder how he could sit and do Homa after lying to me.

BTW the event needed sarees and gold too and he called me to tell me what type of silk sarees he wants..he was placing order I guess his wife wanted only certain types!LOL

Unfortunately certain people like those exists and they make the preisthood shameful. They utilize the sentiments for their own advantage. What they don't realize is money made in such a way does not do good to them and most of it won't be spent on a good cause. Such acts are main reason that drive people away from performing our religiuous responsibilities. My suggestion to the affected people is to form a group. There may be many like minded people in your area who wants to perform their religious rites in a dignified and economic manner. What you can do is form a group or co-operative society of such people and contribute a little amount towords on welfare to this society. Appoint one learned person after due veryfication as priest exclusively for your members and pay him a monthly salary out of your contribution. Fix the rules for yourself according to the rules prevelant in the community (Cast system mainly interferes in India only, I think. Out side India people are satisfied with greater Hindu regulations rather than cast specific rituals! at least they are better compared to the sufferings one is subjected to on these occasions,) I have initiated formation of two such group One in Salem and other one in Delhi which are gaining good support and taking care of members very well.

 

[GANESH65]

Unfortunately certain people like those exists and they make the preisthood shameful. They utilize the sentiments for their own advantage. What they don't realize is money made in such a way does not do good to them and most of it won't be spent on a good cause. Such acts are main reason that drive people away from performing our religiuous responsibilities. My suggestion to the affected people is to form a group. There may be many like minded people in your area who wants to perform their religious rites in a dignified and economic manner. What you can do is form a group or co-operative society of such people and contribute a little amount towords on welfare to this society. Appoint one learned person after due veryfication as priest exclusively for your members and pay him a monthly salary out of your contribution. Fix the rules for yourself according to the rules prevelant in the community (Cast system mainly interferes in India only, I think. Out side India people are satisfied with greater Hindu regulations rather than cast specific rituals! at least they are better compared to the sufferings one is subjected to on these occasions,) I have initiated formation of two such group One in Salem and other one in Delhi which are gaining good support and taking care of members very well.

I think this suggestion of yours of forming some society are worth considering. We find shortage of learned priests at many places even in India. Keeping some one employed exclusively for a group of people sounds a good idea as people won't have to run here and there on time of emergency. Problem is finding the right person and his acceptance to the same as these people are very high in demand and short in supply.

 

[krish44]

In older days in delhi there was a vadhyars association to which all vadhyars were affiliated. A monthly membership fee was paid to the association. A vadhyar allocated

to ones house became over time family vadhyar.

I suppose it is dead now. So are the adherance to most rituals other than marriage or deaths.Slow death of rituals is probably good.

 

[Raji Ram]

The learned sAsthrigaLs are really well off. :couch2:

They have packages for every occasion. The advantage for the clients is that they need not roam around buying required stuff
for the hOmam and poojA. The present rate for Ganesh poojA, navagraha hOmam and Ayush hOmam is Rs. 12,000/- opcorn:

P.S: In Boston, the fee was $ 150/ + fuel charges!

 

[GANESH65]

The learned sAsthrigaLs are really well off. :couch2:

They have packages for every occasion. The advantage for the clients is that they need not roam around buying required stuff
for the hOmam and poojA. The present rate for Ganesh poojA, navagraha hOmam and Ayush hOmam is Rs. 12,000/- opcorn:

P.S: In Boston, the fee was $ 150/ + fuel charges!

I can perform all these Poojas, I think I can look forward for a bright future, if migrate to Boston!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: