The dance of Shiva..

[renuka]

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Vishnu the Inertia as the re-born Atma,
-TBT

Just need some clarification..what exactly do you mean by re-born Atma?

Atma as we know is :

na jayate mriyate va kadacin
nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah
ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano
na hanyate hanyamane sarire


​

For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.



Techincally an Atma is Ajah..unborn..so what is re-born Atma?

 

[renuka]

Vishnu the Inertia as the re-born Atma, as a property of matter, is what 'preserves' the Universe. It is a fundamental property that sustains the Universe as we see it now. To be at rest, when in rest and to be in motion, when in motion is actually 'PRESERVING'.



-TBT

Just a few posts ago today when I said this :"Becos Vishnu principle is seen as the Preserver..so there is an attempt to link inertia to Vishnu purely based on that fact that Vishnu seems to give the perception of a non changing state"


To which you replied: "Just to be clear, I am only presenting a summary of my understanding here. I never linked Vishnu to a preserver in my understanding. I did not derive Vishnu to be inertia from it. That's probably your understanding"



How come now I see that you are echoing what I brought up in my earlier post and contradicting your earlier statement.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Just a few posts ago today when I said this :"Becos Vishnu principle is seen as the Preserver..so there is an attempt to link inertia to Vishnu purely based on that fact that Vishnu seems to give the perception of a non changing state"


To which you replied: "Just to be clear, I am only presenting a summary of my understanding here. I never linked Vishnu to a preserver in my understanding. I did not derive Vishnu to be inertia from it. That's probably your understanding"



How come now I see that you are echoing what I brought up in my earlier post and contradicting your earlier statement.

Atma is aja

Vishnu (inertia) in equivalence with mAyA (rest-mass) is Tamasic.
Vishnu (inertia) in equivalence with Brahma (Gravity) is Sattvik.
mAyA/Vishnu (rest-mass) in equivalence with shakti (momentum) or Shiva (Energy) is Rajasik.

Vishnu, the Atma is all put together or above all of these gunas.

The Atma is Unborn (aja). But it manifests in different ways.

Sankhya hypothesized that each manifestation has a preponderance of a particular 'Guna'. With preponderance of Sattvik it is Brahma, Rajasik it is Shakti, Tamasic it is mAyA.

Atma never manifests without a preponderance of a 'Guna'.

I said these also:

Vishnu the Inertia as the re-born Atma, as a property of matter, is what 'preserves' the Universe. It is a fundamental property that sustains the Universe as we see it now. To be at rest, when in rest and to be in motion, when in motion is actually 'PRESERVING'.

This preserving is what is called as 'Inertia' in science.

I also said these:

Actually the functions of trinity are well represented in Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva. (But that is not the 'reason' why I mapped them with Gravity, Inertia and Energy).

-TBT

 

[thebigthinkg]

May be precise definitions will help as you intend to give at least quasi-scientific explanations?

By Shiva do you mean energy or potential?

If you give the meaning as "energy" then it runs counter to almost all the meanings attributed to Siva in any of the scriptures, be it Vedas, upaniSads, purANams or slOkams. Just to give a sample case:

/ shiva shaktyA yuktO yadi bhavati shakta: prabhavituM
Na chE dEvam dEvO na khalu kushalah: spanditum api
Atah:stwAm ArAdyAm hari hara virinchi Adibhirapi
praNantum stOtum va kaTham akrata puNyah: prabhavati // 01 //

says the first sloka of Soundarya Lahari, meaning Shakti getting involved with Siva.

If Siva himself/itself is energy, then what is the second energy or force you are alluding to?

The translation of first few lines of that Sloka you referred is:

"Manifestation (Bhavati) becomes capable (shakthaH prabhavituM) when Energy Momentum are in Union (shiva Shaktya Yukto). If not (evam na che) the deva is verily not competent (na khalu kushalah) even to move (spanditum api)".

The above is absolutely true. Shiva is Energy. Shakti is Momentum. If Energy is not accompanied by momentum, it cannot even move. (only when it moves it acquires momentum). When energy is not accompanied by momentum, nothing changes, evolves. Such a state is not possible.

-TBT

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Zebra,

I did some research on shakthi. I got this from Art of living website: http://www.artofliving.org/wisdom/knowledge-sheets/who-are-you-brahma-vishnu-mahesh-or-guru

My understanding now is that what you say as vishnu shakthi may refer to the consort of vishnu or goddess Lakshmi and so on. But maya in general may refer to any of the shakthis is what I think and not just vishnu shakthi.

 

[prasad1]

The word maya has various meaning. The term maya came in common lexicon with the Advaita Philosophy of Sankara.
Māyā is a fact in that it is the appearance of phenomena. Since Brahman is the sole metaphysical truth, Māyā is true in epistemological and empirical sense; however, Māyā is not the metaphysical and spiritual truth. The spiritual truth is the truth forever, while what is empirical truth is only true for now. Since Māyā is the perceived material world, it is true in perception context, but is "untrue" in spiritual context of Brahman. Māyā is not false, it only clouds the inner Self and principles that are real. True Reality includes both Vyavaharika (empirical) and Paramarthika (spiritual), the Māyā and the Brahman. The goal of spiritual enlightenment, state Advaitins, is to realize Brahman, realize the fearless, resplendent Oneness.

If you are talking of that Maya associated with Advaita school, then there is no Brahma, Visnu, Siva etc as separate identity. Brahman is the only reality.

brahma satyam jagan mithya
jivo brahmaiva napara
Brahman is the Reality, the universe is an illusion,
The living being is Brahman alone, none else.


This means that there is only one supreme reality, a reality called Brahman, the supreme being. Brahman is infinite and omnipresent (present absolutely everywhere), therefore nothing can be added to it and furthermore, there cannot be a place where he is not. Therefore, Brahman being non-dual in nature, there is no place for the world or man or any creature outside Brahman. It transcends all pairs of opposites and descriptions.
The reality of the world, or jagat, is then relative as opposed to the absolute nature of Brahman. In that sense, and in comparison with Brahman, the world is unreal. By unreal is meant illusory, very much like a dream, which has its own subjective reality but which is illusory compared with the waking state.
The last of the three statements asserts that the true nature of each individual is Brahman. Because of avidya, the orginal spiritual ignorance, we have forgotten our true identity and mistakenly believe that we are little, limited individuals.

How can that jive with this Vishnu principle or shiva Principles or Shakti.
They are attributes of same Brahman, and not different from Brahman. There is nothing other than Brahman. This is not the limited god of Mythology.

 

[renuka]

Atma is aja

Vishnu (inertia) in equivalence with mAyA (rest-mass) is Tamasic.
Vishnu (inertia) in equivalence with Brahma (Gravity) is Sattvik.
mAyA/Vishnu (rest-mass) in equivalence with shakti (momentum) or Shiva (Energy) is Rajasik.

Vishnu, the Atma is all put together or above all of these gunas.

The Atma is Unborn (aja). But it manifests in different ways.

Sankhya hypothesized that each manifestation has a preponderance of a particular 'Guna'. With preponderance of Sattvik it is Brahma, Rajasik it is Shakti, Tamasic it is mAyA.

Atma never manifests without a preponderance of a 'Guna'.


-TBT

The traditional time tested understanding is... Brahma represents Rajas becos the Brahma principle denotes Creation.
Creation is ACTION..It makes sense that its Rajas.

BTW even if you want to speculate that Brahma is Gravity...Gravity itself is a Force..Force is EXERTIVE....once again a property of Rajas



Since the Brahma principle itself is Rajas and not Sattva as you denoted..automatically your assumption of Vishnu/Maya is Tamas..Maya/Shiva/Shakti is Rajas is not accurate anymore.

Now I totally understand why the Bhakti Marg is the recommended Marg!

 

[sravna]

Vishnu and Shiva are the same and is brahman. So the reality is one but the projection of two aspects as ones responsible for destruction and preservation happens to create the antagonism that is necessary for evolution.

 

[thebigthinkg]

The traditional time tested understanding is... Brahma represents Rajas becos the Brahma principle denotes Creation.
Creation is ACTION..It makes sense that its Rajas.

BTW even if you want to speculate that Brahma is Gravity...Gravity itself is a Force..Force is EXERTIVE....once again a property of Rajas



Since the Brahma principle itself is Rajas and not Sattva as you denoted..automatically your assumption of Vishnu/Maya is Tamas..Maya/Shiva/Shakti is Rajas is not accurate anymore.

Now I totally understand why the Bhakti Marg is the recommended Marg!

Brahma or Gravity is not a force. It is the bending or vibration of spacetime curvature. When Energy with momentum (shiva-sakthi) moves on it, spacetime curvature bends or vibrates and in turn affects the movement of the object (shiva-sakthi) itself. This movement getting affected is what is seen as 'force' of gravity.

That's why I understand Puranas say Brahma produces a Rudra (force-field in my view).

I repeat I did not say Vishnu is Tamas. I said Vishnu is Atma and either is combination of all Gunas or above all Gunas. Vishnu in equivalence with mAyA is Tamas, in equivalence with Shiva/Shakti is Rajas, in equivalence with Brahma is Sattva.

The Atma or Vishnu in itself does not have a prepondarance of a Guna. But the manifestations do have a prepondarance of a Guna. This is what I wrote.

In fact I can map even the Gunas to specific attributes of matter as in science, but I don't want to jump too many hops now..

What I am writing has nothing for or against Bhakti marg. I am just trying to Vedas are pure science and nothing more.

-TBT

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue:

Brahma or Gravity is not a force. It is the bending or vibration of spacetime curvature. When Energy with momentum (shiva-sakthi) moves on it, spacetime curvature bends or vibrates and in turn affects the movement of the object (shiva-sakthi) itself. This movement getting affected is what is seen as 'force' of gravity.


Well Gravity is not a force if you wish to go Einsteinion but Gravity is a Force if we go Newtonian.So both theories have their own gravitational effect on our understanding..but either way both theories involves a lot of Activity..activity is Rajas.Its pretty clear.

That's why I understand Puranas say Brahma produces a Rudra (force-field in my view).

I repeat I did not say Vishnu is Tamas. I said Vishnu is Atma and either is combination of all Gunas or above all Gunas. Vishnu in equivalence with mAyA is Tamas, in equivalence with Shiva/Shakti is Rajas, in equivalence with Brahma is Sattva.

Yup..I know you did not say Vishnu is Tamas...Its you multiple combinations that leads too varied Gunas scenarios.

The Atma or Vishnu in itself does not have a prepondarance of a Guna. But the manifestations do have a prepondarance of a Guna. This is what I wrote.

Absence of Gunas or Beyond Gunas?

BTW you seem to be Vishnumayi now..how does Brahman fit into your understanding?

In fact I can map even the Gunas to specific attributes of matter as in science, but I don't want to jump too many hops now..

Kah Api Samasya Na Hi...Kurdanam Karotu Bhavan..I am waiting to read more.

What I am writing has nothing for or against Bhakti marg. I am just trying to Vedas are pure science and nothing more.

Yup...there is nothing against Bhakti marg..but at times too much detail might just be mind games.

-TBT

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri TBT Ji,

To start with, I salute your intuitions. There are certain mapping of yours which seem to possess a lot of substance. I am also trying to understand how the trinity given their functions operate as gravity, inertia and energy.

I have some differences given your presentation and my understanding of physics.

Let us start with brahma. Brahma is the creator. Now if gravity is the cause of the physical world, I think it should also include the creation of space and time, then one can possibly say that gravitational energy is brahma.

Gravity exists between masses. My understanding is that the four fundamental forces including gravity would have come into existence only after the properties of mass and charge emerged. Before that differentiation there would have been just one force.

You adhere to Einstein's view of gravity which is due to spacetime curvature. There are problems with this which physicists are not able to resolve yet because Einstein used the classical model of reality and not the quantum model. So Einstein's theory is not complete and may not be a reliable model of reality.

Again my view is that the quantum nature of reality is a correct understanding and Einstein's theory may have to be revisited. So unless one is sure that Einstein was right, one cannot reliably use his theory.

So can you give a compelling argument why gravity is the cause of the physical world including space and time?

 

[thebigthinkg]

The word maya has various meaning. The term maya came in common lexicon with the Advaita Philosophy of Sankara.
Māyā is a fact in that it is the appearance of phenomena. Since Brahman is the sole metaphysical truth, Māyā is true in epistemological and empirical sense; however, Māyā is not the metaphysical and spiritual truth. The spiritual truth is the truth forever, while what is empirical truth is only true for now. Since Māyā is the perceived material world, it is true in perception context, but is "untrue" in spiritual context of Brahman. Māyā is not false, it only clouds the inner Self and principles that are real. True Reality includes both Vyavaharika (empirical) and Paramarthika (spiritual), the Māyā and the Brahman. The goal of spiritual enlightenment, state Advaitins, is to realize Brahman, realize the fearless, resplendent Oneness.

If you are talking of that Maya associated with Advaita school, then there is no Brahma, Visnu, Siva etc as separate identity. Brahman is the only reality.

brahma satyam jagan mithya
jivo brahmaiva napara
Brahman is the Reality, the universe is an illusion,
The living being is Brahman alone, none else.


This means that there is only one supreme reality, a reality called Brahman, the supreme being. Brahman is infinite and omnipresent (present absolutely everywhere), therefore nothing can be added to it and furthermore, there cannot be a place where he is not. Therefore, Brahman being non-dual in nature, there is no place for the world or man or any creature outside Brahman. It transcends all pairs of opposites and descriptions.
The reality of the world, or jagat, is then relative as opposed to the absolute nature of Brahman. In that sense, and in comparison with Brahman, the world is unreal. By unreal is meant illusory, very much like a dream, which has its own subjective reality but which is illusory compared with the waking state.
The last of the three statements asserts that the true nature of each individual is Brahman. Because of avidya, the orginal spiritual ignorance, we have forgotten our true identity and mistakenly believe that we are little, limited individuals.

How can that jive with this Vishnu principle or shiva Principles or Shakti.
They are attributes of same Brahman, and not different from Brahman. There is nothing other than Brahman. This is not the limited god of Mythology.

I am not sure this will answer all your questions. But atleast elaborate my line of thinking or the thought process..
http://vedabhasya.blogspot.in/2016/02/aditya-hrdayam-part-35-quantum-and.html

The mAyA I refer to is from references of mAyA in Rg Vedic slokas. But that's what Sankara also refers. I think I tried to explain it in that blog.

-TBT

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Shri TBT Ji,

To start with, I salute your intuitions. There are certain mapping of yours which seem to possess a lot of substance. I am also trying to understand how the trinity given their functions operate as gravity, inertia and energy.

I have some differences given your presentation and my understanding of physics.

Let us start with brahma. Brahma is the creator. Now if gravity is the cause of the physical world, I think it should also include the creation of space and time, then one can possibly say that gravitational energy is brahma.

Gravity exists between masses. My understanding is that the four fundamental forces including gravity would have come into existence only after the properties of mass and charge emerged. Before that differentiation there would have been just one force.

You adhere to Einstein's view of gravity which is due to spacetime curvature. There are problems with this which physicists are not able to resolve yet because Einstein used the classical model of reality and not the quantum model. So Einstein's theory is not complete and may not be a reliable model of reality.

Again my view is that the quantum nature of reality is a correct understanding and Einstein's theory may have to be revisited. So unless one is sure that Einstein was right, one cannot reliably use his theory.

So can you give a compelling argument why gravity is the cause of the physical world including space and time?

There is no conflict between Newtonian Gravity and Einstein Gravity. They are actually saying the same thing.

I will try to present them in a mixture of my terms and scientific terms here.

Newton viewed Gravity as an attractive force (Rudra) between two bodies of mass (mAyA). He theorized that this force is inversely proportional to square of distance between the bodies.

Einstein saw Gravity as just the warping/bending of spacetime (Hiranyagarbha), as a fabric that warps/vibrates (kA-Ancha) due to these two objects moving in it. Gravity is not a true force in his view.

An body of mass or an object here can be viewed as Energy/Momentum (Shiva-Shakti), which manifests to us with 'rest-mass' (mAyA). Because Hiranyagarbha bends to shiva/shakti, Brahma is called ka-ancha in Puranas.

Because two moving objects fundamentally warp the spacetime on which they are travelling, their path of movement get altered in such a way that it is is seen as a 'force of attraction' between these two bodies. This force of attraction between the bodies is obviously dependent on the distance between the bodies (inversely proportional to square of distance). Thus newtonian gravity is a special class of Einstein Gravity.

In other words, the Gravity (Brahma), which is a warping of spacetime fabric, works by creating an apparent force-field (Rudra), between the objects. Brahma (Gravity) in himself is not a Rudra (force-field). But it is Brahma who creates the Rudra (This is what is said in the Puranas).

From a quantum view-point, all force-fields (Rudras) can be visualized as having a 'quanta' (Rudra-Gana) of their forces. , which have seven characteristics. They are mass, helicity(spin), electric charge, color charge, velocity, chirality and frequency.

In my understanding, if Rudras are force-fields, Rudra Ganas are their quanta. All Rudras have Rudra Gana. Hence all force-fields can be quantized.

Can we quantize the force-field of Gravity, whose quanta can be depicted as 'Graviton' and if yes, what are its Sapta-Ratnas or seven characteristics is still a debate going on in scientific world.. It is also almost seen that its mass is zero, helicity is 2, does not have any electric or color charge, the frequency range could be from 10^-7 to 10^11hz.

Whether it is feasible to be detected is the question remaining..


-TBT

 

[sravna]

Thank you Shri TBT Ji. Looks like some neat mapping. Are sapta ratnas mentioned in the vedas?

Also could brahma be some unified force instead of gravity which science has not discovered because I think even space and time were the creations of brahma?

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

Ever wondered??

If from the above speculation that Maya is Rest Mass...how does the Illusion nature of Maya come about? Why would Rest Mass exert illusion on entire creation?

Frankly speaking no seer had even mentioned what Maya actually is..everyone just mentioned its effect.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Ever wondered??

If from the above speculation that Maya is Rest Mass...how does the Illusion nature of Maya come about? Why would Rest Mass exert illusion on entire creation?

Frankly speaking no seer had even mentioned what Maya actually is..everyone just mentioned its effect.

Dear Renuka,

I would think, that not only rest mass but other fundamental properties of matter would be the effects of maya.

We need to understand that Shri.TBT's initiative is commendable and so would be helped a lot by suggestions and feedback from others.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,


We need to understand that Shri.TBT's initiative is commendable and so would be helped a lot by suggestions and feedback from others.

I do not know if I would agree here..all I can say that its a different perspective...but many black holes that has gravity so powerful that it does not even allow logic to get out.

 

[sravna]

I do not know if I would agree here..all I can say that its a different perspective...but many black holes that has gravity so powerful that it does not even allow logic to get out.

Dear Renuka,

Actually opposing point of view helps a lot in the development of a theory. Your thoughtful comments and differing view definitely help a lot.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Actually opposing point of view helps a lot in the development of a theory. Your thoughtful comments and differing view definitely help a lot.

Dear Sravna,

Agreed that various views help in development of any theory.

But I do not feel too comfortable seeing some obvious facts being distorted to fit into our imagination.

Jargon of any kind can sound very impressive. Truth seldom sounds as impressive.

 

[renuka]

All the talk about Dance of Shiva...we are forgetting the Dance of Vishnu with Bhasmasura.

So what about that?

What is the scientific explanation of the Dance of Vishnu and Bhasmasura?

Bhasma is ash as we know...so any takers? Any theories?

 

[sravna]

All the talk about Dance of Shiva...we are forgetting the Dance of Vishnu with Bhasmasura.

So what about that?

What is the scientific explanation of the Dance of Vishnu and Bhasmasura?

Bhasma is ash as we know...so any takers? Any theories?

Before that, let me try to summarize my understanding of all the contributions including those of Smt.Renuka. I will in the style of Shri TBT use a mix of terms from science and spirituality.

The fundamental properties of matter were created by brahma using maya. The effects of such properties as mass, charge etc started the principles of trinity to be manifest. Force field emerged between different masses and different charges. One type of force acted towards destruction and the other towards evolution. And there was creation also with all together sustaining the cycle of creation, sustenance and destruction.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Thank you Shri TBT Ji. Looks like some neat mapping. Are sapta ratnas mentioned in the vedas?

Also could brahma be some unified force instead of gravity which science has not discovered because I think even space and time were the creations of brahma?

Yes Sapta Ratnas are in Vedas.

-TBT

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Sravna,

Agreed that various views help in development of any theory.

But I do not feel too comfortable seeing some obvious facts being distorted to fit into our imagination.

Jargon of any kind can sound very impressive. Truth seldom sounds as impressive.

You are absolutely right (Truth seldom sounds as impressive).

mAyA in Vedas has indeed been intuitively well understood by Seers like Sankara, but not as a measurable parameter in science.

mAyA has been traditionally treated as illusion. mAyA is indeed illusion.

As I described before, what we see in all the matter and beings around us, is mAyA or illusion. We think they are real. They are not. The reality is the Shiva-Shakti (Energy-Momentum) that is present or the Atma/Consciousness/Vishnu that is present.

For eg. our body is a colony of atoms in which nucleons are zipping at light speeds, electrons are dancing around at light speeds. Our body is an union of energy (shiva) and momentum (shakti), which manifests as atoms, compounds, cells (those with a 'mass'). This is reality.

But what we see is an external body with a rest-mass (mAyA) of X kgs.

Energy-Momentum is reality, rest-mass is perception or illusion. This is applicable to all matter and beings in the Universe.

This is what is being said by seers. Shiva-Shakti (Energy/Momentum) or the Vishnu (which VSN says is the Atma/Consciousness, which manifests as a property inertia) are the reality behind, while all the bodies with rest-mass that we see, be it ourself, stone, tree, river, wind, sky et al are all perceptions or illusions or mAyA.

That's why Truth is seldom impressive.


-TBT

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri TBT,

I am able to see the logic when you say that Vishnu manifests as inertia. Here is what I understood. There is a binding energy in matter and it is responsible for the resistance in the matter. Matter is one level but at higher levels of existence such as life and mind, there would be similarly higher level expressions of inertia and would correspond to the binding energy at those levels. For example in the case of mind the binding energy would be spiritual energy, don't you think?

 

[renuka]

You are absolutely right (Truth seldom sounds as impressive).

mAyA in Vedas has indeed been intuitively well understood by Seers like Sankara, but not as a measurable parameter in science.

mAyA has been traditionally treated as illusion. mAyA is indeed illusion.

As I described before, what we see in all the matter and beings around us, is mAyA or illusion. We think they are real. They are not. The reality is the Shiva-Shakti (Energy-Momentum) that is present or the Atma/Consciousness/Vishnu that is present.

For eg. our body is a colony of atoms in which nucleons are zipping at light speeds, electrons are dancing around at light speeds. Our body is an union of energy (shiva) and momentum (shakti), which manifests as atoms, compounds, cells (those with a 'mass'). This is reality.

But what we see is an external body with a rest-mass (mAyA) of X kgs.

Energy-Momentum is reality, rest-mass is perception or illusion. This is applicable to all matter and beings in the Universe.

This is what is being said by seers. Shiva-Shakti (Energy/Momentum) or the Vishnu (which VSN says is the Atma/Consciousness, which manifests as a property inertia) are the reality behind, while all the bodies with rest-mass that we see, be it ourself, stone, tree, river, wind, sky et al are all perceptions or illusions or mAyA.

That's why Truth is seldom impressive.


-TBT

Once I was in my car and the car next to me starting reversing..it gave me an impression as if my own car was moving backwards..it made me worried for a while in case had engaged reverse gear by mistake.

I had not even started my car engine yet fear gripped me....O' what an illusion...my car was actually "resting" but it was the other car that was "moving"

Which was real? Why did I feel my car was moving? Why did I get worried? Why Why Why?

MAYA...Maya was my car...It was stationary...resting...yet I thought it was moving.

O' God...Thou art the atoms in my car...thou art my Shiva(Battery and petrol)..thou art my Shakti momentum(when my car accelerates)..thou art my Vahanadhara(the supporter of my car)..the road..supplying the momentum when the car pushes the road and when the road pushes back.

What a revelation...Is it my thoughts depolarizing at a -70mV that has given me this revelation?

I see it now...the dance of You in my mind..the rocking of my CSF lightly caressing the neurons...just like the ocean of milk that lightly cradles Vishnu.

There is no more Maya to decipher..Maya you are my CAR!