old tamil saying/tamil proverb

[kunjuppu]

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dears NAMO NAMAHA.(for kind attention of shrikunjuppu) the first two words in capital means salutation in success to the elderly,scholarly,respectable persons{prostration to the deity as we perform in the temples}the lost sentence in capital is a RIGVEDHA manthra.in nutshell it may mean" LET NOBLE THOUGHTS COME FROM ALL SIDES/SOURCES".thanks to shri pannvalan.(his indication - the sources of 25000 proverbs.appreciated for his information)thanks to shri vijraman as well as shri tv varathan. namaskars to all."AA KNOW BHADHRA KRATHVO YANTHU VISWATHAHA."v.lalithakumar

thanks lalitha.

unfortunately, i do not deserve namo namaha, because i am not of the group 'eleerly, scholarly (heaven forbid), respectable (absolutely not)..

in such cases. may be an ordinary வணக்கம் or வந்தனம் is flattering enough a salutation.

also, why not say plainly, about noble thoughts from all sides...

the point i am trying to make, is, keep your communication simple.

be understood, the same way, as you meant it to be. which is why prakrit flourished. sanskrit became the domain of exclusiveness.

thank you.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear all,

The actual meaning of the tamil proverbs are like that only. Certainly we are not taking the right meaning. When doing my M. Phil dissertation in tamil, initially I worked in proverbs. For example, the proverb, "Arasanai nambi purushana vittadu pola". It seems that a girl believing a king, left her husband. But, the actual meaning is, "a girl believes the arasa tree (sacred ashvatha- Fig tree) to bear a child than her husband". Other proverb, "Kazhudaiku teriyuma karpoora vasanai?" Infact I dont know whether a donkey smells camphor or not. But the real meaning is: There are two kind of grasses for sewing mats. One is a cheap quality (KAZHU PUL or Kazhu grass) other is Karpoora grass of higher quality and smell. If a mat has been prepared with Kazhu pul, then how can you expect the camphor smell from that? This is what the real meaning. The other example, "Pillaiyar pidika kuranga mudinjadu" everyone knows the actual and presnt-day meanings.

Similarly, "Pennuku idam kodale" It is KODALE only. I mean "should not give". But the actual meaning here "idam" totally means the left side only. Dont make her to take a place on your left side. I dont know the reason behind that. But actual meaning is this. In Tamil, single word have many meanings. If you are not taking the right meaning, the total concept will turn around.

Pranams.

 

[pannvalan]

Here are the details of the book I had referred to.

1. Title: Thamizh Pazhamozhigal

2. Author: Ki. Va. Jagannathan

3. Publisher: General Publishers, 244, Ramakrishna Mutt Road,
Post Box No. 617, Mylapore,
CHENNAI - 600 004. (Tel: 044-4941314)

4. Edition: First - December, 2001

5. Price: Rs.300/- (all the 4 volumes put together)

Since the telephone number printed on the book is very old, please find out the correct number now.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Thanks Pannvalan...:wof:

 

[tvvaradan]

proverbs

Thank you sirs. The thread is interesting.
I understand that kivajas proverbs book has come as CD also. Any information?
As mr durgadasan points out many proverbs have their meaning twisted.
how about these.
man kudirai nambi aatril irangadhe. It is man kudhir ( a manal medu) and NOT man kudirai A horse made of mud.
sozian kudumi summa aaduma? It is sozhian kudumi summaadu aaguma meaning the front tuft cannot be equal to the summadu a spiral of cloth used for carrying loads on head.

kurivukkuththakka rameswaram ..... kuri vaikkaththakka ramasaram . It praises the arrow of Lord Rama and it has nothing to do with kuruvi or sparrow.
Lazaraus has translated 10000 provebs in English. The book may be available from higgin bothams
marimalai adigals daughter neelambigai had brought out a book araindhu eduththa arunooru pazamozhigalum avatrin aangila aakkamum.
it is avialable from saiva sidhdhantha noorpadhippuk kazhagam
Thanks a lot for the useful information and opportunity to interact.

 

[DURGADASAN]

A lot more sir,

"siva pujaila karadi" Karadi here means a type of instrument- not a bear.
"Ayiram perai kondral arai vaithyan" - actually it is ayiram verai kondral arai vaithyan. It means the doctor has atleast know about 1,000 kinds of herbal roots.
Even a saying "sattyil irundal agapaiyil varum" has a real meaning of if you perform Shashti vrida, you will get a child.
Many more like this sir...

Pranams.

 

[pannvalan]

1. It is 'Ayiram verai kandavan arai vaithiyan' - meaning a person who has found roots
of 1000 different herbal plants is at least half a doctor .

2. 'Chattiyil irundhal agappaiyil varum', I think, is used in the right context even today.

3. 'Karadiyam' was a kind of musical instrument of yore. It is a string instrument.

 

[akura]

பெண்ணுக்கு இடம் கொடேல்

Thanks Sri Durgadasan
IF it is ....
பெண்ணுக்கு இடம் கொடேல் (pennukku edam kodael)
meaning can be this ...
You give her the left side after marriage (after you tie mangalasoothra )
Before that she is on your right side .

So it can be that you donot get married .
மணம் முடிந்தபின்னர் இடபாகம் அமர்கிறாள் பெண் .

ஒரு பெண்ணை மணம்புரிய வேண்டாம் என்பதாக கொள்ளலாம்

சிவனும் உமையும் சேர்ந்தபின்னர் உமை இடபாகம் அடைகிறாள் .
Donot give equality. சரிபாகம் கொடுக்காதே எனவும் கொள்ளலாம்

 

[pannvalan]

It is a wrong inference, Akura.

 

[tvvaradan]

proverb

Sirs
so we gather several meanings.Though in my heart of hearts I agree with mr durgadasans intrepretaion, i may venture to understand it in mutiple ways as proverbs do not have a particular author and many are like otraiyadip paadhai without name signboard etc
As the right side is accepted for women in all customs the proverb will now mean pennukku idam kodel. Do not give the left side to another woman(oruvanukku oruththi)
We should not confuse with gods and goddesses. they have deep allegorical and inner meaning like sidhdhi budhdhi and daya etc ichcha kriya etc.
pennukku idam kodel may also mean total bnegation of desire to woo a woman (maruvu pen aasaiya marakkave vendum .. Vallalar. this is applicable for monks and ascetics.
In all practical life pennukku rombha idam kodukkadhe would be suitable.There should be mutual understanding and support and no exploitation on either side.
karadiyam explanation is fine. yes it is true . In siva poojas samavedam is chanted. that is the most musical and holy and sacred of all vedas. Vedangalil naan saama vedam .... Lord Krishna. in Geetha. it seems karadium will give very rough sound . so the two extremes are cited in the proverb very aptly
Am I correct sir.
Further it may be interesting to note that the whole of india can be classified into three worship domains. 1. shaivam 2. vaishnavam and 3. shakthi . These three are enshrined in the four vedas
In vaishnavam mahalaksmi is in the chest of maha vishnu A portion of man is for woman
In ardhanareeswarar kolam 50 percent is for women
in shakti worship shakthi is all powerful 100 percent.
Do these things have anything to do with the thought process of mankind?

 

[RVR]

Here are the details of the book I had referred to.

1. Title: Thamizh Pazhamozhigal

2. Author: Ki. Va. Jagannathan

3. Publisher: General Publishers, 244, Ramakrishna Mutt Road,
Post Box No. 617, Mylapore,
CHENNAI - 600 004. (Tel: 044-4941314)

4. Edition: First - December, 2001

5. Price: Rs.300/- (all the 4 volumes put together)

Since the telephone number printed on the book is very old, please find out the correct number now.

Thanks for your information.

I shall try to get a copy of the entire set.

All the best

 

[pannvalan]

Dear Varadan,

Every man has some kind of femininity in him and likewise, every woman has some element of masculinity in her. As long as these are in the right proportions, their gender will be beyond doubt.

That apart, every human being must possess both the qualities - man is associated with bravery, being assertive, taking care of all who seek his support and protection, socially active, meeting the financial and material requirements of the whole family, providing education to the children and marrying of the youngsters at the right age etc.

Woman is associated with love, care and concern for all under her nurturing, driving away the hunger in the family by feeding, inculcating the traditions and customs in every individual of the family, particularly children and safeguarding the reputation and integrity of the whole family.

These two are not mutually opposing roles, but complement and support each other.
Only then, the whole family will remain united, satisfied, healthy and attain prosperity and happiness.

A satisfied and happy family symbolises a healthy and responsible unit of the society itself.

 

[tvvaradan]

proverb

100 percent correct sir, thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Varadan,

Every man has some kind of femininity in him and likewise, every woman has some element of masculinity in her. As long as these are in the right proportions, their gender will be beyond doubt.

pann,

a great train. hold that thought.. i should come back to it in a while... wow...the man inside the woman and vice versa..

awesome catalyst of a thought

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

'களவும் கற்று மற' - We have been hearing this old saying since our childhood. 'Learn even to steal and just forget' is the easy meaning we get in most of our minds This is used this way particularly when referring to bad habits by youngsters themselves and by intentional/u nintentional petty wrong doers

The real meaning of this proverb is 'களவும் கத்தும் மற'. 'கத்து' means gambling. 'One should not think about "stealing and 'gambling" in his life is the meaning of this proverb.

"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

'களவும் கற்று மற' - We have been hearing this old saying since our childhood. 'Learn even to steal and just forget' is the easy meaning we get in most of our minds This is used this way particularly when referring to bad habits by youngsters themselves and by intentional/u nintentional petty wrong doers

The real meaning of this proverb is 'களவும் கத்தும் மற'. 'கத்து' means gambling. 'One should not think about "stealing and 'gambling" in his life is the meaning of this proverb.

"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[pannvalan]

Dear Soundara Rajan,

In the proverb "Kalavum Katru Mara", the term 'kalavu' refers to marrying by eloping with a person of one's choice. The Sanskrit equivalent is 'Gandharva Vivaham".
In Sangam age, 'Kalavu Vazhi' has been given lot of importance and coverage. (Don't for heaven's sake evaluate its merits with today's values).

But, your interpretation is also interesting, though I doubt the real meaning of
'kaththum' as used by you in this context.

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Shri Panvalan ji:

Thanks for your views. The lexican meaning for the word 'kaththu' is 'soodhu'. I have gone through an article in Dinamani, sometime back, and I just shared it pls. 'KaLavu vazhi' is Lord Muruga's marriage with VaLLi and 'Karpu vazhi' is the same person's marriage with DeivayAnai. Your interpretation is also quite interesting. Obviouskly, this may not be referring to today's dating culture, as also observed by you,

//

'நாயைக் கண்டால் கல்லைக் காணோம் ; கல்லைக் கண்டால் நாயைக் காணோம் '. This is also one expression we often hear.
'When we find dog, stone is not found and vice versa' is the meaning, we get normally. But this refers to a sculpture of a dog made out of stone. If we know tht this dog is made out of stone, we miss the dog and vice versa. Thirumoolar in his Thirumandhiram quotes as
'மரத்தில் மறைந்தது மாமத யானை'. This means, if wood is seen, the elephant is missing and vice verca.
I think this is the inspiration for the poet who wrote a poem in kamal's Dasavatharam movie -

'கல்லை மட்டும் கண்டால் கடவுள் தெரியாது'. It struct to me that the role of hanging kamal with panchakacham and thirumaN in the attire of a Tamil Brahmin Iyengar adds special meaning to this song and the expression.

Regards.

"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!"
_ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[pannvalan]

The 4 lines in Thirumoolar's Thirumandiram are:

"Maraththai maraithadhu maamadha yanai;
Maraththil maraindhadhu maamadha yanai.

Paraththai maraithadhu parmudhal bootham;
Paraththil maraindhadhu parmudhal bootham".

There is an old film song echoing the same idea.

"Deivam endral adhu deivam; verum
silai endral verum silai than.
Undendral adhu undu;
Illai endral adhu illai". (Paarthaal Pasi Theerum)

To quote one related event, a psychologist conducted an experiment with small kids drawn from various backgrounds. They were shown some faint images, circular in shape, on the screen and were asked to identify them.

Children from poor families told they were coins, kids from rich families said they were
circles and some other kids said clouds, water drops etc. The conclusion was, depending upon one's need, mind interprets the same object differently. In case of poor children, because they were hungry, coins which can buy some food for them were seen in the form of circular images on the screen.

 

[vikrama]

As mr durgadasan points out many proverbs have their meaning twisted.

Proverbs are the essence of the collective experience and wisdom of the society. When we want to express our new experience, sometimes we borrow an old proverb and give it a new meaning. That does not mean that the old is no longer valid. Both represent the experience of the society in two different spheres.

For example, the two meanings given for 'Kalavum Kathu mara' - one version means that one should be proficient in everything, including theft though it is unethical. One should not practice it but should forget it. The unethicalness is brought out by the 'um' which in Tamil grammar is called 'izhivu sirappu ummai'.
In the other version, it means one should avoid theft and gambling. There the 'um' is a conjuction like 'and' and is called 'ennummai'

 

[v.lalithakumar]

dears,wishsing you all a happy deepavali.the old sayings/ proverbs have allways some deep rooted inner meaning and always drive home some moral too.(e.g)"PILLAIYARAI PIDIKKA KURANGAI MUDINDHADHU."at the start of a marriage,or any work we pray lord GANESA and on completion with success we pray&thank shri "HANUMAN".if one starts a work by dedicating to "PILLAIYAR".he can have an happy ending of the job.normally this proverb is misused.that is the case of many old sayings. with namaskars."LET KNOWBLE THOUGHTS COME FROM ALL SOURCES/DIMENSIONS." v.lalithakumar

 

[vikrama]

.normally this proverb is misused.that is the case of many old sayings. with namaskars.

Please don't call it misuse. That is the experience of another group of people. Have we not ourselves experienced it sometimes? -(After all our efforts, something unexpected results.)

 

[pannvalan]

Before any puja is performed to any deity, it is customary to make a small conical figure out of turmeric paste, to denote 'pillaiyar'. Initial brief puja will be done to this figure of pillaiyar only. It is quite likely that this figure turns out to be asymmetrical and may look as ugly as a monkey. This is the import of the proverb "Pillaiyar pidikka poi, kurangaai mudintha kathai".

 

[tvvaradan]

proverb

Kalavum katru mara After learning kalavu how to forget it? It is not possible and it should not be forgotten. The proverb means love a girl and MARRY her. The kalavu (meeting, talking exchange of views etc before marriage)should culminate in karpu (meaning illaram) One should not go on experimenting by forgetting one and taking up another.
the other meaning kaththu.. soodhu is alo there.

paramachryal has written in devatththin kural Start with pillaiyar and conclude with Hanuman.(pillaiyar pidikka...)

 

[v.lalithakumar]

dears NAMO NAMAHA.(dear vikrama ji i am very sorry for calling so)let me put it after this manner.this old saying is used in different sense based on the individuals experience.with namaskars."LET KNOWBLE THOUGHTS COME FROM ALL SOURCES/DIMENSION/SIDES." v.lalithakumar.