Is the caste system weakness of Hinduism?

[B.Krishnamurthy]

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Dear Mr.Raghy,
Thank you for your clarification.I am not convinced.In my opinion Shri.R.Parthasarathy should not have said something in his post as if somebody else commented in thread no 839.It is beyond my comprehension that he only intrepreted the earlier views of Mr.Kunjuppu.
Let us bring this issue to an end.Let us agree to disagree.
I cited my experience in 1943 as Mr.R.Parthasarathy holds a different view and vehemently deny that Brahmins never behaved like that in the past.

 

[sravna]

In my opinion this forum is one of the very few forums where civilized exchange of opinions can be seen. We should strive to maintain that at any cost and not let the exchanges become totally devoid of content.

The current situation arose because even a person of Shri.Kunjuppu's standing failed to take enough care in not using language which were provocative. Shri Parthasarathy did almost the inevitable, responding strongly to those comments.

Members should try to show more restraint in the choice of their words and the use of language however strong their emotions may be to a particular message, Shri. Raghy's suggestion of holding their posts till their emotions cool down is one way of exercising self control.

I think the esteemed senior members of the forum have more responsibility in this regard and reiterate that they should show the way to the rest of the members of the forum.

Shri.Kunjuppu ji should be one of those guides and should continue with the valuable contributions he has been making to this forum.

 

[SwamiTaBra]

toDear Mr.Raghy,

When I was 10 years old in 1943 I had occasion to visit my mother's native village'VISHNAMPET' near TIRUKKATTUPPALLI where Brahmins after taking Bath in river 'KOLLIDAM' and returning home used to shout"THEENDATHEY" in tamil and all women labour folk working in the fields will go a distance till the Brahmins leave.LET US BE TRUE TO OUR CONSCIENCE.
/QUOTE]

Dear Sri Krishnamurthy,

I know that you will find it odd that I someone younger to you by more than 30 years coming from the same milieu would look at in a different way.

Untouchability in its very extreme form is reprehensible. But within our homes theethu and madi were observed much more strictly during those days. Women during menses are kept away at a great distance (it was possible those days in villages) and food for them was not served in vessels in common use. Also pickles and appalams were denied to them. Only lead vessels were suppossed not to carry the theethu to others. Incidentally similar practises were observed amongst Jews and Parsis. No one talks about them. Are we not unfair to ourselves by selectively critical of us?

It is very likely you would not like any women (during menses) of your home -- let alone others-- to walk close to you while you do your puja and other pitr samskaras.

With regards,
Swami

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Swami,
This issue was discussed in post no 832, post no 834 and post no 836.I have made my observation after going through those posts..What we do within our house is not affecting outsiders, while what we do in public definitely affect others.I think there is nothing wrong in examining our past actions and learn lessons for the future.

 

[sangom]

toDear Mr.Raghy,
...
Even in my family we have a 10 generation chart.
Still I do not know while doing 'THARPAN' i am required to say the following manthra.
GYATHA AGYATHA pithrun(KNOWN &UNKNOWN FOREFATHERS.

Dear Shri Krishnamurthy,

Namaskaram. The recital of "jñātājñāta pitṝnstarpayāmi" in our tarpana mantra is not because we are unsure about our apparent ancestry. (Why I use the word "apparent" will be clear as you read on.) It is because there may be pitrus about whom people may not be aware; all may not have error-free family charts. Secondly, in the tarpana, we give 'sesamum and water' to only three generations but the concept of pitṛs does not end with these three generations. (I have written about this in another thread on śrāddham in this forum itself, but am not able to locate it immediately.) Hence the 'omnibus' tarpanam to jñātājñāta pitṝs.

Apart from the above, our smṛti kartas were rather ultra realistic and provided for the contingency of the 'apparent' pitṛ not being the actual, de facto, pitṛ, due to unfaithfulness of the women. Kindly see post http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/rituals-ceremonies-pujas/4791-pithru-tharpanam.html#post55502.

Hence your conclusion that none of us may know who our ancestors really were, gets borne out by our smṛtis but in a peculiar way and this perhaps also rebuts the criticism of in-breeding and obviates the need or desirability of infusion of fresh blood, which were points made by Shri Kunjuppu.

Incidentally, with due respect to you, it was the use of capitals by Shri RP which was taken as equivalent to "shouting" by Shri Kunjuppu and a few others, I presume. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) So I would like to have your comments on the "shouting" allegation which was made against Shri RP.

 

[SwamiTaBra]

Dear Shri.Swami,
This issue was discussed in post no 832, post no 834 and post no 836.I have made my observation after going through those posts..What we do within our house is not affecting outsiders, while what we do in public definitely affect others.I think there is nothing wrong in examining our past actions and learn lessons for the future.

By your logic, everyone should be allowed to go to the garba graham including the women in menses, for temple is a public place and touch the idol that is suppossed to represent god. It could be argued that for god perfume and filth are same. People would like to observe certain conventions and these are purely indigenous.Not even someone born as pariah would like to do that, I am sure.

Rgds.,
Swami

 

[R_PARTHASARATHY]

Dear RR sir,
I request you to kindly consider staying back as the ban is lifted. That would give you an opportunity to rectify any mistakes you might have committed knowingly or unknowingly. If you are not interested in posting, that's fine. Stay cool and observe. You can do a lot by just observing things around you. I believe you will do as good a job as anybody else in the forum as time goes on. The toughest thing is to realize our weaknesses. Anybody who has done it can only get better and achieve more. This is my personal request. Thanks and regards.

Dear Shri.Sangom sir and Shri. Raghy sir,

I Thank you again for your wishes and support.

 

[R_PARTHASARATHY]

Dear Shri.Sangom Ji,
Exactly, this was the contradiction that I was also wondering about. If our ancestral women (read tamil brahmin women) could have been a prized booty of invaders or conquerors, now where is the need to go for infusion of fresh blood..? I could not get an answer when I repeatedly posed this question to myself.
That's a very valid observation you have made.Thanks.

PS: Yes. I have since understood the forum decorum better and stopped capitalizing whole sentences, whether or not my points would be made clear.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri Sangom,
I have gone through the postings.Obviously Shri.Parthasarathy is upset and annoyed.Mr.Nara has called the annoyance of Shri.R.P as shouting from an angry man.Here we only express our views in written communication.So the question of 'shouting' may not arise.Perhaps Mr.Nara might have used this term figuratively.Another point I noticed that if you read Mr.Kunjuppu's reply to Mr.Parthsarathy. the word your is not appropriate if you read the full sentence.Perhaps he wanted to use the word 'ours' which would have been appropriate.Even then there is scope for Mr.R.P taking objection.You had also commented about this in your posts.
In retrospect all this unfortunate episodes could have been avoided.
We can only learn lessons for the future from this episode.

 

[C RAVI]

toDear Mr.Raghy,

When I was 10 years old in 1943 I had occasion to visit my mother's native village'VISHNAMPET' near TIRUKKATTUPPALLI where Brahmins after taking Bath in river 'KOLLIDAM' and returning home used to shout"THEENDATHEY" in tamil and all women labour folk working in the fields will go a distance till the Brahmins leave.LET US BE TRUE TO OUR CONSCIENCE.
/QUOTE]

Dear Sri Krishnamurthy,

I know that you will find it odd that I someone younger to you by more than 30 years coming from the same milieu would look at in a different way.

Untouchability in its very extreme form is reprehensible. But within our homes theethu and madi were observed much more strictly during those days. Women during menses are kept away at a great distance (it was possible those days in villages) and food for them was not served in vessels in common use. Also pickles and appalams were denied to them. Only lead vessels were suppossed not to carry the theethu to others. Incidentally similar practises were observed amongst Jews and Parsis. No one talks about them. Are we not unfair to ourselves by selectively critical of us?

It is very likely you would not like any women (during menses) of your home -- let alone others-- to walk close to you while you do your puja and other pitr samskaras.

With regards,
Swami

Well said Sri Swami....

Theetu and Madi among the orthodox brahmins, for their poojai and pitru karyams, were the most important factor irrespective of cast variations. I have seen my grandparents keeping their washed cloths on a bar, up near to the roof, so that no one come to its contract accidentally. And we kids were asked to not to touch them until they finish off with their poojai (elders know, its about theetu/madi).

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Swami,
I think it will be nice if we do not discuss this matter further.You are free to have your view/opinion in the matter.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri.Sangom Ji,
Exactly, this was the contradiction that I was also wondering about. If our ancestral women (read tamil brahmin women) could have been a prized booty of invaders or conquerors, now where is the need to go for infusion of fresh blood..? I could not get an answer when I repeatedly posed this question to myself.
That's a very valid observation you have made.Thanks.

PS: Yes. I have since understood the forum decorum better and stopped capitalizing whole sentences, whether or not my points would be made clear.

Dear Shri RP,

It is not only invasions - in such cases it is highly unlikely that the "booty" would have been left here, or alive - but also the menfolk who alone used to migrate, taking for their wives, women from the local population. After all, in those days women did not enjoy a status higher than that of any other "possession" of the male; so, just as migrants would not take their cattle along with them all the way to the new and strange areas, but buy something new from the new place, the case of women would also have been the same.

Shri. Kunjuppu and others like him believe that the brahmins should now take - even if it is a unilateral move - to intermarry with other castes and thus convince the rest of the hindus that we no longer claim any caste or gene superiority, and this will unite the hindus and be good for India. I say, may be or may not be. I am not against any brahmin boy or girl going for inter-caste marriage, but when it was found that the community in general is not willing to endorse such a move, I felt it is proper not to go on advocating the same step of reform. There was some discussion about this in another, closed thread and Shri Kunjuppu referred to it when he said I might still have some rancour from that discussion, left in me. In truth I have absolutely no ill will but only regards and high opinion about Shri Kunjuppu.

If you want to emphasize some word/s or sentence/s, please make them bold. But making the entire post in bold letters makes reading strenuous for my eyes and so I generally skip such posts.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,
I have gone through the postings.Obviously Shri.Parthasarathy is upset and annoyed.Mr.Nara has called the annoyance of Shri.R.P as shouting from an angry man.Here we only express our views in written communication.So the question of 'shouting' may not arise.Perhaps Mr.Nara might have used this term figuratively.Another point I noticed that if you read Mr.Kunjuppu's reply to Mr.Parthsarathy. the word your is not appropriate if you read the full sentence.Perhaps he wanted to use the word 'ours' which would have been appropriate.Even then there is scope for Mr.R.P taking objection.You had also commented about this in your posts.
In retrospect all this unfortunate episodes could have been avoided.
We can only learn lessons for the future from this episode.

Thank you, Sir. But the point which I tried to bring in was that the use of capital letters is taken as equivalent to shouting in the internet convention. Emphasis is obtained by making the portion/s bold.

 

[ganeshrev]

In following the Theetu and Madi, I feel what Mr B KrishnaMurthy is trying to convey is not regarding following with in one's own house - But the hurt the others feel when disriminated is something we cannot deny.It is a fact.It is Ok what you want to follow within house for cleaniness and practices.

But asking some people to move away because one particular caste is coming (I am just not referring to B - Other sects as well) has/had definitely created animosity and this is proven by various anti-B speeches we hear.

This is MHO

Regards
Revathi

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.inSangom,
I checked in GOOGLE/YAHOO Search.TYPING in BOLD letters is considered as Yelling,Rude,shouting etc.Here also the opinion varies.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri.inSangom,
I checked in GOOGLE/YAHOO Search.TYPING in BOLD letters is considered as Yelling,Rude,shouting etc.Here also the opinion varies.

Dear Shri Krishnamurthy,

I stand corrected. It now looks as if we can only use italics or some other colour for highlighting. But there are members here who insist on posting entirely in bold fonts. Hope Shri KRS will give his ruling in this matter.

 

[Brahmanyan]

In following the Theetu and Madi, I feel what Mr B KrishnaMurthy is trying to convey is not regarding following with in one's own house - But the hurt the others feel when discriminated is something we cannot deny.It is a fact.It is Ok what you want to follow within house for cleanness and practices.

But asking some people to move away because one particular caste is coming (I am just not referring to B - Other sects as well) has/had definitely created animosity and this is proven by various anti-B speeches we hear.

This is MHO

Regards
Revathi

Dear Mrs. Revathi,

This discussion reminds me of an incident claimed to have happened in the Life of Sri Sankaracharya at Varanasi, which brought out the essence of Advita Vedantha in five verses from the Acharya. This is known as "Manisha Panchakam".

According to legend, while on his way to the Viswanatha Temple Sri Sankara came upon a Chandala , untouchable accompanied by four dogs. Pursuant to the practice in those days, he was asked to move aside by Sankara's disciples, the untouchable replied: "Do you wish that I move my ever lasting Atman , or this body made of flesh?" Realising that the untouchable was none other than Lord Shiva himself, Sri Sankara prostrated himself before him, composing five slokas known as Manisha Panchakam.

Now that untouchability is prohibited by Law, the subject has no relevance to present society.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore

 

[SwamiTaBra]

Madam,

But asking some people to move away because one particular caste is coming (I am just not referring to B - Other sects as well) has/had definitely created animosity and this is proven by various anti-B speeches we hear.

Whilst performing religious duties, to observe theetu and madi is justified. Look, if there is a veda parayanam, say in a temple or in other public place, and vadhayars keep a distance from other folks, people do respect that.

Invariably in Kerala temples, the pothis, the priests will throw prasadams from a safe distance and people there have no problems with that. Sri Sangom can vouch that.
In fact EVR's famous struggle for entry of Harijans into temples started at the Vaikom temple.
Contrary to widely held belief, w.r.t religious duties I have found that austere and consistent one is in his/her observances, greater the respect he/she commands in the society notwithstanding all the talk about untouchability--within homes or outside.

With regards,
Swami

 

[ganeshrev]

Madam,


Whilst performing religious duties, to observe theetu and madi is justified. Look, if there is a veda parayanam, say in a temple or in other public place, and vadhayars keep a distance from other folks, people do respect that.

Invariably in Kerala temples, the pothis, the priests will throw prasadams from a safe distance and people there have no problems with that. Sri Sangom can vouch that.
In fact EVR's famous struggle for entry of Harijans into temples started at the Vaikom temple.
Contrary to widely held belief, w.r.t religious duties I have found that austere and consistent one is in his/her observances, greater the respect he/she commands in the society notwithstanding all the talk about untouchability--within homes or outside.

With regards,
Swami

Shri Swami,

iF you see Sri B KrishnaMurthy's origial post regarding this, what he has stated is this:

Brahmins after taking Bath in river 'KOLLIDAM' and returning home used to shout"THEENDATHEY" in tamil and all women labour folk working in the fields will go a distance till the Brahmins leave

in post # 975.He is no where talking about personal madi, Theetu, Rituals in temple etc.

Personal Madi and Theetu are indiviual choices and the homam,rituals are based on scriptures.But his experience is while using public places like roads.

Hope this clarifies.If you still disagree with with Mr BK, that is your right to do so.

We will agree that we disagree

Regards
Revathi

 

[C RAVI]

Smt. Revathi

Shri Swami,
Shri Swami,

iF you see Sri B KrishnaMurthy's origial post regarding this, what he has stated is this:

Brahmins after taking Bath in river 'KOLLIDAM' and returning home used to shout"THEENDATHEY" in tamil and all women labour folk working in the fields will go a distance till the Brahmins leave

in post # 975.He is no where talking about personal madi, Theetu, Rituals in temple etc.

Personal Madi and Theetu are indiviual choices and the homam,rituals are based on scriptures.But his experience is while using public places like roads.

We will agree that we disagree - This is soo cute..



Regards
Revathi

The use of the term 'Theendathey' was obvious to alert women cautiously, working in fields to stay away, while on their way after bathing.

I feel, this behavior of those days brahmins, who were all mostly priests and performing vedic karyams, was with their fellow brahmins too, who come across with uncleanliness/without bathing.

When many of the fellow brahmins, who know the purpose and the reasoning of these sanctity, fail to restrict themselves and need to be re-iterated, it obviously makes the brahmins to strictly practice the usage of 'Theendathey' with others in common, out side the home..

 

[Vivek_V]

Hi, I am new to the forum and I have joined this forum to understand and discuss such points as brahmin role in modern society, how they are viewed, how they view others etc. In regard to this question "Is the caste system weakiness of Hinduism?" my answer is a resounding YES. Others attribute that the caste system that exists even among other religions like Muslims, Christians and Sikhs originated from Hinduism. And since the brahmins have been the legacy-keepers of the Hindu faith or Indian philosophical cannons in general -we are scrutinized.

This is one of the reasons mass convertions have happened too, we have made our position too exclusive and not shared our legacy with others. Not given them the chance to be with us, culturally or otherwise. Others however have had a more egalitarian approach to spreading their religion. India has always been a secular society and naturally people will adhere to that which keeps treats them with some dignity, respect and provides them hope to a better life.

Unfortunately, even a person like Shankaracharya of Kanchi who respresents tamil brahmins, is not affected by issues like untouchability or bad casteist conditions. He speaks like it is okay. Let us think, how does this reflect on our community? On how we would treat people?

We or any people for that matter must presently define ourselves/themselves and come to understand what they stand for (as is the case in every era).

Regards,
Vivek.

 

[sangom]

A lot of efforts are now going on to preserve the culture and customs of tribals in many parts of India. I learnt from a Scheduled Tribe colleague of mine that among his tribe (in Gujarat) they practise untouchability within the house and outside as well; within the house, for menses, birth, death, including the death of paternal relatives, and outside the house for these categories plus among some few other tribes. He said that women during menses are confined to an outhouse sort of structure and cannot come out into the open ways. He himself could not observe this in his small quarters but when his father from their tribal village came to stay with him, they observe the custom meticulously and food is prepared only by himself and his father, his wife confining herself to the bedroom with attached bath.)

I do not know whether the GOI is educating the tribals in regard to untouchability being a punishable offence!

 

[sangom]

Hi, I am new to the forum and I have joined this forum to understand and discuss such points as brahmin role in modern society, how they are viewed, how they view others etc. In regard to this question "Is the caste system weakiness of Hinduism?" my answer is a resounding YES. Others attribute that the caste system that exists even among other religions like Muslims, Christians and Sikhs originated from Hinduism. And since the brahmins have been the legacy-keepers of the Hindu faith or Indian philosophical cannons in general -we are scrutinized.

Shri Vivek,

I agree with your observations except the last sentence. Brahmins as law makers in ancient India do have some the blame I do not understand what you intend to convey when you say “we are scrutinized”. In no part of the country Brahmins show or behave any superiority - at least outwardly – over other castes and do not observe any untouchability outside their homes. The other castes also do not show any animosity towards Brahmins. The situation in UP, the largest state and the success of Mayawati in forging alliance between the barhmins and the Dalits is one evidence for this. The rift is now between Dalits and the upper caste hindus.

This is one of the reasons mass convertions have happened too, we have made our position too exclusive and not shared our legacy with others. Not given them the chance to be with us, culturally or otherwise.

Yes.

Others however have had a more egalitarian approach to spreading their religion.

Whom are you referring to and on what basis you conclude that they have had (i.e., in the past) a more egalitarian approach?
How can there be egalitarian approach in proselytization? Not clear to me.

India has always been a secular society and naturally people will adhere to that which keeps treats them with some dignity, respect and provides them hope to a better life.

Don’t you think that this contradicts the existence of the caste system from ancient times? When do you say India ‘has always been’ secular?

Unfortunately, even a person like Shankaracharya of Kanchi who respresents tamil brahmins, is not affected by issues like untouchability or bad casteist conditions. He speaks like it is okay. Let us think, how does this reflect on our community? On how we would treat people?

We or any people for that matter must presently define ourselves/themselves and come to understand what they stand for (as is the case in every era).

Regards,
Vivek.

I cannot say anything about the Acharya but I think Jayendrar does have a new outlook. I don’t know on what basis you say he “He speaks like it is okay”. In this forum this issue of castes, the responsibility of Brahmins for this, whether they deserve to be repaid in the form of reservations which goes against the Brahmins, etc., have been discussed threadbare, in this thread itself. I would request you to spend some time reading those posts and give us your own views/suggestions on these topics, viz.,

1. Whether Brahmins today practice untouchability and casteist actions/attitudes towards others?
2. Is there anything to be reformed as regards the way Brahmins treat other people at present? If so, what steps are needed.
3. How should we, the Brahmins ‘define ourselves’? Obviously we cannot define others for themselves, it is for those people to do that.

 

[Nara]

.......
Apart from the above, our smṛti kartas were rather ultra realistic and provided for the contingency of the 'apparent' pitṛ not being the actual, de facto, pitṛ, due to unfaithfulness of the women. Kindly see post http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/rituals-ceremonies-pujas/4791-pithru-tharpanam.html#post55502.

Relevant portion from the cited post:

yan mE mAtA pralulObhA bhavantyananuvratA |....

The meaning of this is, "if my mother has, out of infatuation, slept with someone, as a result of which I was born, you SwadhA, please select my biological father (rEtaH pitA) and convey this offering to him so that it does not go waste."

Here also, it is only the father's status (similarly grandfather and great grandfather also come) which is very punctiliously, and not about the father's other sexual partners. By deduction the offsprings' (from the secret second wife) sraaddha oblations will go to the father in question. Ours was a male-centric religion.

RP had to twist and turn Krunjuppu's words to take offense that his parentage was being questioned. In what ensued, it was repeatedly argued that RP didn't have to twist anything, that was the plain meaning of what K had written.

Now, I hear not a whimper from anyone. This odious Tarpana mantra, as explained by Shri Sangom himself, without any need for anything that can even be remotely construed as twisting, makes each TB performing Tarpanam say that his own mother, not some unknown ancestor beyond grandparents, could have have been an adulterous woman, just can't be sure!!!

Why is nobody taking offense? Given nobody is taking offense to this blatantly offensive mantra, why was RP justified in cursing K with impunity?

This hypocrisy calls desperately out for some sarcasm, but, I have no way of knowing what sarcasm are permitted in this fourm and what are not.

I don't expect any reasonable response to this -- there is probably going to be more arguments and justifications. I am really sorry, I have lost stomach for this kind of open double standard and pliable logic.

 

[sangom]

Relevant portion from the cited post:
RP had to twist and turn Krunjuppu's words to take offense that his parentage was being questioned. In what ensued, it was repeatedly argued that RP didn't have to twist anything, that was the plain meaning of what K had written.

Now, I hear not a whimper from anyone. This odious Tarpana mantra, as explained by Shri Sangom himself, without any need for anything that can even be remotely construed as twisting, makes each TB performing Tarpanam say that his own mother, not some unknown ancestor beyond grandparents, could have have been an adulterous woman, just can't be sure!!!

Why is nobody taking offense? Given nobody is taking offense to this blatantly offensive mantra, why was RP justified in cursing K with impunity?

This hypocrisy calls desperately out for some sarcasm, but, I have no way of knowing what sarcasm are permitted in this fourm and what are not.

I don't expect any reasonable response to this -- there is probably going to be more arguments and justifications. I am really sorry, I have lost stomach for this kind of open double standard and pliable logic.

Dear Shri Nara,

I feel you are trying to mix two different viewpoints in order to prove .. what, I don't know.

We have to believe that either all of us (tambrams) know well about the actual meaning of this Sraaddha mantra and each one of us lives with a perennial and never-ending doubt not only about mother, grandmother, greatgrandmother, but, by implication, about wife as well. Or, we may take the realistic position that not many people know the meaning of this mantra even if they perform Sraaddha; those who have not yet have to perform Sraaddha do not know about this mantra at all. Even those who are aware of this mantra do not hold it as a guide in leading their day to day life.

If the former case applies, Shri Kunjuppu, in the first place, should not have had to advocate the mixing of blood therapy for genetic cleansing because he ought to have known about this mantra and the scenario it envisages. Your stand will thus be valid only if it is granted that K was not obliged to know about this (and could, therefore, go ahead with his suggestion) but RP should have known about this mantra and so he should not have cursed K. Alternatively others should have known this mantra and hence not objected to K's wording of his post. Is this your stand?

The second scenario - which to me was the reality - tells us that neither K nor RP, nor many others knew about this, and even people like me, who have awareness of this mantra, do not live with the permanent distrust about womenfolk as a religious following of this mantra would entail. If we accept this, what happened between K and RP as well as subsequently, had nothing to do with the existence of this mantra or its meaning.

It is, however, a surprise to me that you chose an argument like this to come to the defence of your friend and attack the rest of the members of this forum!

Finally what do you want this forum to do about this mantra? What if we take offence? Pl. tell us what action we can and should do? If, however, you are hinting at my giving a wrong interpretation of the mantra, I am always willling to be corrected and to apologize for my mistake. But kindly let us know where the mistake is.