How to retain our left out community???

[renuka]

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I am really happy to welcome each member individually right from Doctor Mam, RR Ji Mam, Krishna Ji, TKS Ji, Vaagmi Ji and now Chandru Ji to this thread.

TKS Ji was kind enough to spare some time over the topic and had offered valuable suggestions in the thread 'A Tamil Brahmin Dilemma', but that thread went astray.

Similarly Vaagmi Ji, presented lot of suggestions in the other thread which also went astray and has become a 'Chit Chat' session which is very unfortunate. The seriousness was lost and the thread was diluted/hijacked.

I take this opportunity to welcome all other members also, request them to contribute their thoughts, suggestion, opinion, POV, etc It is a pleasure indeed to see that there is lively debate on this topic.

I know pretty well that everyone is very busy in their own profession with various commitments, programs, etc

Despite busy schedule, if one is able to spend some time in this Forum is really great, that shows one's love towards the community and that too offering suggestion in a sensitive subject touching the topic is really exemplary.

I appreciate every one and request all to contribute their thoughts, suggestions, etc. and make the thread lively and informative.

Let us discuss in detail and strive to find out solutions in good spirit.

Dear Bala sir,

I have a question to ask you and also others..the question can be misunderstood but I will ask it anyhow to get a clearer picture of the scenario.

I have not much exposure to actual life in India at the grass root levels.

I have noted that at least in forum most TBs have a very strong attachment to identity/culture/lifestyle etc.

How is it with other communities in TN..do they too have such strong sentiments and attachment to identity?

The reason I ask this is becos on a personal basis I do not really adhere or get attached to the idea of a permanent identity all that much and therefore just exist as myself and quite open to any concept or lifestyle that can proof healthy and beneficial.

So you would find me cooking all sorts of various countries vegetarian food...wearing all sorts of different clothes that can belong to any community/religion..I sometimes where the Islamic Jubah too cos its comfortable and decent for work..also wear Indian clothes for some functions..wear Chinese Cheongsam tops too for work.

I dont see in anyway that by experimenting with different food,dressing,philosophy etc that would change my perception which could spell loss of culture.

Last nite I was hearing a Sufi Bhajan which also had 2 verses about Lord Krishna...today morning I was doing Yoga while having the Shiva Tandav strotam playing in the background..while cooking I was listening to some Rama bhajan.

So why bind ourselves in anyway by only thinking we are only this and nothing else.

All of us have been tru various births and have had many identities...can we even remember what we were in our last birth and can we even know what we would be in our next birth?

This is why I do not really bother being borderline obsessive with anything cos that is surely going to change in our births to come.

The only thing that is not subject to change is Atma..and that is pure freedom.

So is being over attached really healthy?

 

[V.Balasubramani]

So is being over attached really healthy?

Doctor Mam,

What you are talking about is something over attachment.

But as of now, do Brahmins have enough attachment to their own community..?

Leave alone over attachment.

We have drifted ….. …… we came long way from the path that was laid down to us.

Perhaps we paid more importance to material pleasures.

We are running after money, material comforts viz the three ‘C’s viz Cash, Convenient and Comforts

There are few Brahmins who are well versed in Vedas and Upanishads and perform all nithyanikas and follow the principles laid down in Dharmasastras to some extent viz duties, responsibilities, ethics, etc and live in bliss and peace.

With time passing out, most have changed a lot for generations and there is influence of western culture also.

Instead, what is now argued is to change ourselves to the path shown by our Gurus, Acharyas and thus try to emulate ourselves as an example to the young generation to follow.

To start with, one should try to stop running after western culture and after money and material comforts.

In this connection I need to quote what our MahAperiyavA said:

இப்போதிருக்கிற சமூக அமைப்பு முழுதும் மாறுகிறதோ, மாறவில்லையோ—அதை மாற்ற முடியுமோ, முடியாதோ—வேத ரக்ஷணத்தையே ஜீவனமாக வைத்துக் கொண்டிருக்கிற ஒரு கூட்டம் என்றைக்கும் இருந்து கொண்டிருக்கும் படியாக நாம் பண்ண வேண்டும். பிராம்மண ஜாதி என்று ஒன்று இருக்க வேண்டும் என்பதற்காக இதை நான் சொல்லவில்லை. தனியாக இப்படி ஒரு ஜாதி சுயநலத்துக்காக இருந்து ஒன்றும் ஆகவேண்டாம். லோக க்ஷேமத்துக்காகத்தான் அது இருக்க வேண்டியிருக்கிறது. இந்த லோக க்ஷேமத்துக்காகத்தான் வேத சப்தங்கள் ஏற்பட்டிருக்கின்றன. வேத சப்தங்கள் இருந்தால்தான் லோகம் முழுக்க க்ஷேமமாக இருக்கும் என்று நான் சொல்லுகிறேன். அதனால் இனிமேலாவது ஒரு பிராமணன்கூட வேதம் தெரியவில்லை என்று இருகக்கூடாது என்கிறேன். பிராம்மணர்கள் மறுபடி வைதிகத்துக்குத் திரும்புவது ஒன்றுதான் இப்போது ஏற்பட்டிருக்கிற இத்தனை கோளாறுகளும் தீருவதற்கு ஒரே பரிகாரம் என்கிறேன்.

Courtesy: https://mahaperiyavaal.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/%E0%AE%85%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%AE-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D/

prajabhysvasti am paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah
gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu

 

[renuka]

Doctor Mam,

What you are talking about is something over attachment.

But as of now, do Brahmins have enough attachment to their own community..?

Leave alone over attachment.

We have drifted ….. …… we came long way from the path that was laid down to us.

Perhaps we paid more importance to material pleasures.

We are running after money, material comforts viz the three ‘C’s viz Cash, Convenient and Comforts

There are few Brahmins who are well versed in Vedas and Upanishads and perform all nithyanikas and follow the principles laid down in Dharmasastras to some extent viz duties, responsibilities, ethics, etc and live in bliss and peace.

With time passing out, most have changed a lot for generations and there is influence of western culture also.

Instead, what is now argued is to change ourselves to the path shown by our Gurus, Acharyas and thus try to emulate ourselves as an example to the young generation to follow.

To start with, one should try to stop running after western culture and after money and material comforts.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for reply

I would not want to blame western culture becos to a great extent most of us have benefited from western founded knowledge for a livelihood.

Its always better to introspect to analyze what went wrong and look for intrinsic factors instead of playing the blame game and blaming the decline of values solely due to western influence.

Even religious texts talk about decline in Dharma without pointing to any particular region in the world as the causative factor.

After all Avatars have descended in other Yugas too to uphold Dharma..that shows that decline in Dharma is cyclical and a Universal phenomenon.

Coming to material..Cash,Comfort,Convenience..we all know that we do need some of these for a safe and secure life.

How much is enough is subjective but at the same time material is still seen as the measure of success even in orthodox individual.


There is a thread in forum about the salary of Sundar Pitchai CEO of Google.

I am sure some might view this as measure of success but does the salary of anyone actually denotes success?

Not really but yet someone earning millions would be a yardstick or even the pride of a community.

This sort of thinking plagues most humans in the world but in the real sense...success itself can not be really measured soley based on material..but how many people are willing to look beyond all these?


Also there is a believe that money etc does not encourage values and one has to be complacent in life and not work as hard and be too satisfied but in reality that's just "inaction".

So its up to an individual to decide how he/she would want to lead his/her life for an optimum level of well being.

Its not going to be an easy task to have one size fit all for everyone.

Culture alone can not really help cos culture itself can be materialistic.

Our Hindu lifestyle has become very expensive..even in death..without material one would not be even able to have a funeral..we are too ritualistic and that itself is very expensive.

To be frank a Non Hindu funeral actually costs much less!

Coming to culture/religion etc I have seen even many religious people who even before embarking on a spiritual quest mostly think of benefits than anything else.

For some benefits could be money..for some even spiritual power...what difference does it actually make when both are desires?

To cut it short...Non adherence to culture is not the real problem cos culture is always changing and evolving/devolving...the real problem is DESIRES.

I feel its easier to control the Devil but not DESIRE.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Doctor Mam

My answers are given in blue.


I would not want to blame western culture becos to a great extent most of us have benefited from western founded knowledge for a livelihood.

I agree partly. But the fact remains that we were ruled by the moguls for 330 years and then by British for nearly 250 years.

Can anyone rule out that there was no such influence of respective culture on us.

Its always better to introspect to analyze what went wrong and look for intrinsic factors instead of playing the blame game and blaming the decline of values solely due to western influence.

Mam, I don’t mean solely, I meant it may be also one of the root causes for our cultural decline.

Even religious texts talk about decline in Dharma without pointing to any particular region in the world as the causative factor.

To my little knowledge, I don’t think there is any change in the rituals, ethics, samskaras, etc. But strict observance of such rituals was diluted and there are only few who still practice these rituals sincerely. The number has reduced considerably.


After all Avatars have descended in other Yugas too to uphold Dharma..that shows that decline in Dharma is cyclical and a Universal phenomenon.


Coming to material..Cash,Comfort,Convenience..we all know that we do need some of these for a safe and secure life.

How much is enough is subjective but at the same time material is still seen as the measure of success even in orthodox individual.


There is a thread in forum about the salary of Sundar Pitchai CEO of Google.

I am sure some might view this as measure of success but does the salary of anyone actually denotes success?

Not really but yet someone earning millions would be a yardstick or even the pride of a community.

This sort of thinking plagues most humans in the world but in the real sense...success itself can not be really measured soley based on material..but how many people are willing to look beyond all these?


Also there is a believe that money etc does not encourage values and one has to be complacent in life and not work as hard and be too satisfied but in reality that's just "inaction".

So its up to an individual to decide how he/she would want to lead his/her life for an optimum level of well being.

Its not going to be an easy task to have one size fit all for everyone.

Culture alone can not really help cos culture itself can be materialistic.

Our Hindu lifestyle has become very expensive..even in death..without material one would not be even able to have a funeral..we are too ritualistic and that itself is very expensive.

To be frank a Non Hindu funeral actually costs much less!

This is something relates to demand and supply I believe. There is acute shortage for Vadhyars especially in respect of particular Veda.

Coming to culture/religion etc I have seen even many religious people who even before embarking on a spiritual quest mostly think of benefits than anything else.

For some benefits could be money..for some even spiritual power...what difference does it actually make when both are desires?


Brahmins are supposed to lead a simple life with contentment as per the Hindu texts.
But I think not necessarily to remain as poor like Sudhama (Kuchela) as depicted in Purana.

To cut it short...Non adherence to culture is not the real problem cos culture is always changing and evolving/devolving...the real problem is DESIRES.

I feel its easier to control the Devil but not DESIRE.

But with Vairagya one can control the desire. There are umpteen numbers of ways to control the mind. This was possible and many practiced this in olden days. But nowdays most don’t and that is the problem.

 

[prasad1]

I have not participated in this thread.
The original poster had expressed some strong views about the potential participants. But this is in GD section. If you do not want opposing views post in some exclusive section. We know the general composition in this forum. Like someone said less than 20% of participant live in TN.
Then again are we talking of Brahmins in general, Or Tamil Brahmins only, or Tamil Brahmins who never left TN (Does it include Telugu Brahmins who may speak Tamil), or Tamil Brahmins Iyers only, Or Tamil Brahmins from Tanjore district, Or Tamil Brahmin Iyyangar from SriRangam. Or we can further subdivide on the basis of subcaste, or does depend on the Matt you follow.
We bicker among ourselves on every aspect of our life. I bet you can not find 2 person who have identical views on what Brahmin is supposed to do.
Like others before me have pointed out "What are we lamenting", "What is lost", "what is the motive behind holding on to some obscure practice".

When I analyze an investment, I know my goal, I know my data. Generally I do not share it as it will be a competition. So If I know the magic, of perfect investment I am not sharing it. On the other hand if I wanted to make money I Can share for a price the "secret of Success".
Instead of collecting opinions about "NO PARTICULAR GOAL" and then expecting solid results is futile.
If I am not sleeping how do you wake me up, or conversely how do you wake a stone that represents the Brahman (Who netter not sleep).

 

[renuka]

I agree partly. But the fact remains that we were ruled by the moguls for 330 years and then by British for nearly 250 years.

Can anyone rule out that there was no such influence of respective culture on us.

There are pros and cons..Mughal rule left us with some new type of food,music,clothes,language...otherwise nothing much.

British rule to some extent had some benefit...that is everyone got a chance to be educated irrespective of caste/creed and Civil/Criminal Law was introduced instead of being governed by Manu smirti or Syariah Law.

BTW I do not really feel invaders invaded the Indian mind as much as we imagine it did.

Its just that playing the blame game and blaming social ills on anything else besides self is the easiest way out and in that process our own faults remain.

In the newspaper last week there was news about a woman from Tamil Nadu who is a divorcee with a 3 yr old daughter..she worked as a cook in a hotel and got into a relationship with a security guard.
She and her security guard partner felt that the 3 yr old girl was a hindrance to their love life and the mother beat the 3 yr old to death and the security guard partner helped her cremate the body! Both were arrested.

Now..who are we to blame?

We cant blame western culture cos murder is not a culture..murder is a crime.
Its a complex scenario.

Also another case in North India...a mother beat up her daughter to death cos the daughters marriage was fixed and the wedding was the next day and one day before marriage the mother caught her daughter having intercourse with the neighbour who was the daughters boyfriend.

Are we to blame western culture here? Its not some town girl..its some semi rural girl.

The reason is obvious that the girl loved someone else and wanted to be with her boyfriend at least once before she gets married..it was her desire.

So playing the blame game does not really solve any problem..its just that humans have become expressive in their views and do not like oppression of any form anymore.

Its a Universal Phenomenon..BTW if we really want to blame something...we can also blame the Yuga...cos Kali Yuga is supposed to be an Adharmic Yuga..also again this is not the 1st Kali Yuga and it wont be the last too..so I guess God too likes some decline from time to time!LOL

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri VB,

Happy to see preseverance of people like you in preserving good things of the past. It is such perseverance that can overcome the constant cynicism and discouragement of those who do not care for our past.

I will try to contribute.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Shri VB,

Happy to see preseverance of people like you in preserving good things of the past. It is such perseverance that can overcome the constant cynicism and discouragement of those who do not care for our past.

I will try to contribute.

Welcome Sir.

Besides Vaagmi Ji and others, you are the one who is more fit to respond to one particular member of this Forum.

I await your informative contributions.

 

[enthusiastix]

Hi

Here is a bit of how I perceive the change needs to come in:

What is the brahmin culture - We are apparently the keepers of the faith. But the temple priests are not quite there when it comes to keeping the faith. When the man closest to the deity is fumbling and turning materialistic where do we, the lesser mortals go?

Here is how we could bring about the change... Our Dharma is tuned to take us up the spiritual ladder and the first thing we really need to start giving up is our unending desire for materialism. Simple living, simple food, simple state of mind. Are we capable? I dont think so!

Its not about blindly following sampradaya or just doing dharma for the heck of it. I am not sure how many people in this group really know what dharma includes, me included. Following the faith is not about blindly following tradition as it was dished out. Where do we draw the line between orthodoxy over convenience? How many of us want to make that change to our own lives. If we all decide to do it to ourselves together, this topic wont be a burning issue anymore.

I would say, lets clean up our back yard first. Understand our scriptures, dwell in the goods of what has been left behind for us to learn from. In my world Brahminism is about getting closer to the Gods. The rest will automatically follow in terms of associated lifestyle, but my first question is - how many of us are really inclined to change today, now.

Regards
Kavitha
Spiritual Vagabond and Blogger - indiatemple.blogspot.com

 

[CHANDRU1849]

In this connection I need to quote what our MahAperiyavA said:

இப்போதிருக்கிற சமூக அமைப்பு முழுதும் மாறுகிறதோ, மாறவில்லையோ—அதை மாற்ற முடியுமோ, முடியாதோ—வேத ரக்ஷணத்தையே ஜீவனமாக வைத்துக் கொண்டிருக்கிற ஒரு கூட்டம் என்றைக்கும் இருந்து கொண்டிருக்கும் படியாக நாம் பண்ண வேண்டும். பிராம்மண ஜாதி என்று ஒன்று இருக்க வேண்டும் என்பதற்காக இதை நான் சொல்லவில்லை. தனியாக இப்படி ஒரு ஜாதி சுயநலத்துக்காக இருந்து ஒன்றும் ஆகவேண்டாம். லோக க்ஷேமத்துக்காகத்தான் அது இருக்க வேண்டியிருக்கிறது. இந்த லோக க்ஷேமத்துக்காகத்தான் வேத சப்தங்கள் ஏற்பட்டிருக்கின்றன. வேத சப்தங்கள் இருந்தால்தான் லோகம் முழுக்க க்ஷேமமாக இருக்கும் என்று நான் சொல்லுகிறேன். அதனால் இனிமேலாவது ஒரு பிராமணன்கூட வேதம் தெரியவில்லை என்று இருகக்கூடாது என்கிறேன். பிராம்மணர்கள் மறுபடி வைதிகத்துக்குத் திரும்புவது ஒன்றுதான் இப்போது ஏற்பட்டிருக்கிற இத்தனை கோளாறுகளும் தீருவதற்கு ஒரே பரிகாரம் என்கிறேன்.

Courtesy: https://mahaperiyavaal.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/%E0%AE%85%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%AE-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%AA%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%AA%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%B0%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%8D/

prajabhysvasti am paripalayantham nyayeana margena mahim maheesah
gobrahmanebhya shubamsthu nityam lokah samastha sukhino bhavanthu

Is it really possible that all Smarthas become Vedic Pandits? Who will they use the Vedas for their livelihood - daily, monthly and yearly - within the community or outside or temples? Will the income be sufficient enough to lead a decent life at least two square meals a day for all members and place to live, good education, let alone exotic one like Denim suiting, I-pad, lap top etc. If it fails, instead of few Bs (as happened now), all Bs will be forced to beg in temples and important festivals.

Is it a true advice or due to frustration?

 

[vgane]

Is it really possible that all Smarthas become Vedic Pandits? Who will they use the Vedas for their livelihood - daily, monthly and yearly - within the community or outside or temples? Will the income be sufficient enough to lead a decent life at least two square meals a day for all members and place to live, good education, let alone exotic one like Denim suiting, I-pad, lap top etc. If it fails, instead of few Bs (as happened now), all Bs will be forced to beg in temples and important festivals.

Is it a true advice or due to frustration?

I think you have misunderstood that! Your ipad or laptop is not going to come in the way of Vedic life...You can be a modern Smartha who is computer savvy but still do all the Nitya Karma with vigor! You can chant the rudram chamakam or the maha mrityunjaya mantra & watch your favorite show on an ipad..Maha swamigal did not say you should earn your living as a Vedic pandit only..But he insisted on continuing the tradition of Vedas for global welfare!

 

[mkrishna100]

Maha swamigal did not say you should earn your living as a Vedic pandit only..But he insisted on continuing the tradition of Vedas for global welfare!

True

 

[V.Balasubramani]

I think you have misunderstood that! Your ipad or laptop is not going to come in the way of Vedic life...You can be a modern Smartha who is computer savvy but still do all the Nitya Karma with vigor! You can chant the rudram chamakam or the maha mrityunjaya mantra & watch your favorite show on an ipad..Maha swamigal did not say you should earn your living as a Vedic pandit only..But he insisted on continuing the tradition of Vedas for global welfare!

Welcome Ganesh Ji,

I really appreciate your spirit. You are the one who is mostly concerned about the topic issue and interested to find out solutions.

I will be only happy if we arrive at a feasible resolution after a lively debate.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

I would like to share an article appeared in the Hindu dated: 22.11. 2015 which is self explanatory.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story of an unusual social group

by RADHIKA SANTHANAM

Tamil Brahmans dominated administration, law, and the cultural sphere. Pictures show Rukmini Devi Arundale, the founder of Kalakshetra; Justice Krishna Iyer; violinist Lalgudi Jayaraman. Photo: The Hindu Archives and Wikimedia commons
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Understanding Tamil Brahmans is essential to trace how the concepts of both class and caste have changed, and how past systems of oppression were sought to be broken down by political and social movements.

U.R. Ananthamurthy, in his award-winning novel Samskara: A Rite for a Dead Man, deals with a tricky question: “Who is a real Brahman?” In a crumbling agraharam, or exclusive Brahman quarter, in the event of the death of a non-conformist, Naranappa, is the real Brahman the one who follows shastra and cremates Naranappa’s body or the one who refuses to do so, for the person in question is not considered one of their own? Samskara was explosive in the 1960s not only because it was perceived as anti-casteist, but also because it showed how tradition can be not just confusing, but also stifling at times.

Excerpt:

Tamil Brahmans is an essential read for all those who wish to understand how the concepts of both class and caste have changed. And for the community itself, an “unusual social group”, as Fuller and Narasimhan refer to them, this book will help them learn and reflect upon their achievements, gain a wider perspective of their history, and smile knowingly at the descriptions of their present lives. And to answer the question in Samskara: There is no “real” Brahman after all.


Read more at: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/the-story-of-an-unusual-social-group/article7904392.ece

 

[sangom]

This thread is titled as "How to retain our left out community???".

To me at least it appears that nothing or nobody has been left out, either in the Tamil Brahmin community or other brahmin communities generally within the four south Indian states. (I am not informed well enough about the brahmins in the rest of the country.) Therefore, the very question of "how to retain...etc.," is not applicable.

The OP as also comments in some of the other posts by honourable members, gives an unmistakable impression that there is a confusing mix-up of the "brahmana" way of life which existed, say, till one or two centuries ago and which lingered on with some vigour even till India's independence. This way of life fitted well with the ancient hindu society comprising of four (or five) Varna or Caste groups and among which the Brahmanas were the uppermost class. This kind of society is slowly but surely dying out, day by day. It will be only a futile dream to imagine today the resurrection of a Brahmana group as of yore.

I am also not in agreement with statements to the effect that "...we have changed a lot, many have deviated from the laid down path and running after money to elk out living, enrich our life, etc etc" and that the bad days for the Brahmanas "began when the Brahmanas swerved from their achara and Dharma and entered the field of competition in the pursuit of worldly things.", etc. These are all hollow statements because even the Mutts and the Swamijis depend only on money and more and more money, at that!

Since we have not defined what we mean by "community", let me proceed with the following meaning, viz., "a social unit of any size that shares common values". Our Tabra community, according to me, has been excellently adapting itself, as a whole, to the changes in its environments, both within India as also globally. Earning more by migrating to other, overseas countries cannot be termed a sin; the community has benefitted in many ways because of the remittances from our foreign members. Similarly, inter-caste and inter-religious marriages have not reduced the strength of our community as feared because in many cases there is a clear, distinct effort to bring up the offsprings of these IC/IR marriages in the brahmin ways of living. However, it will be foolish to insist that the male children should wear only "Koupeenam" and, as brahmacharis, go for begging their food from brahmin households, calling out "Bhavati bhikshaam dehi" three times, etc.

All in all, I am of the considered view that no harm has been caused to "our community" but the ancient or traditional way of our community's living has all but disappeared, with little chances of a rebirth for the same.

 

[prasad1]

Doctor Mam

My answers are given in blue.


I would not want to blame western culture becos to a great extent most of us have benefited from western founded knowledge for a livelihood.

I agree partly. But the fact remains that we were ruled by the moguls for 330 years and then by British for nearly 250 years.

Can anyone rule out that there was no such influence of respective culture on us.

Its always better to introspect to analyze what went wrong and look for intrinsic factors instead of playing the blame game and blaming the decline of values solely due to western influence.

Mam, I don’t mean solely, I meant it may be also one of the root causes for our cultural decline.

Even religious texts talk about decline in Dharma without pointing to any particular region in the world as the causative factor.

To my little knowledge, I don’t think there is any change in the rituals, ethics, samskaras, etc. But strict observance of such rituals was diluted and there are only few who still practice these rituals sincerely. The number has reduced considerably.


After all Avatars have descended in other Yugas too to uphold Dharma..that shows that decline in Dharma is cyclical and a Universal phenomenon.


Coming to material..Cash,Comfort,Convenience..we all know that we do need some of these for a safe and secure life.

How much is enough is subjective but at the same time material is still seen as the measure of success even in orthodox individual.


There is a thread in forum about the salary of Sundar Pitchai CEO of Google.

I am sure some might view this as measure of success but does the salary of anyone actually denotes success?

Not really but yet someone earning millions would be a yardstick or even the pride of a community.

This sort of thinking plagues most humans in the world but in the real sense...success itself can not be really measured soley based on material..but how many people are willing to look beyond all these?


Also there is a believe that money etc does not encourage values and one has to be complacent in life and not work as hard and be too satisfied but in reality that's just "inaction".

So its up to an individual to decide how he/she would want to lead his/her life for an optimum level of well being.

Its not going to be an easy task to have one size fit all for everyone.

Culture alone can not really help cos culture itself can be materialistic.

Our Hindu lifestyle has become very expensive..even in death..without material one would not be even able to have a funeral..we are too ritualistic and that itself is very expensive.

To be frank a Non Hindu funeral actually costs much less!

This is something relates to demand and supply I believe. There is acute shortage for Vadhyars especially in respect of particular Veda.

Coming to culture/religion etc I have seen even many religious people who even before embarking on a spiritual quest mostly think of benefits than anything else.

For some benefits could be money..for some even spiritual power...what difference does it actually make when both are desires?


Brahmins are supposed to lead a simple life with contentment as per the Hindu texts.
But I think not necessarily to remain as poor like Sudhama (Kuchela) as depicted in Purana.

To cut it short...Non adherence to culture is not the real problem cos culture is always changing and evolving/devolving...the real problem is DESIRES.

I feel its easier to control the Devil but not DESIRE.

But with Vairagya one can control the desire. There are umpteen numbers of ways to control the mind. This was possible and many practiced this in olden days. But nowdays most don’t and that is the problem.

Before that we (tamils) were ruled by some other leaders.
Ancient Tamil Nadu contained three monarchical states, headed by kings called Vendhar and several tribal chieftaincies, headed by the chiefs called by the general denomination Vel or Velir. Still lower at the local level there were clan chiefs called kizhar or mannar. During the 3rd century BCE, the Deccan was part of the Maurya Empire, and from the middle of the 1st century BCE to 2nd century CE the same area was ruled by the Satavahana dynasty.

Pandyas and the Pallavas were not indigenous. Vijaynagara and Marathas were not Tamil either.
So who is foreigner and who is local, then again does it matter to common people. The culture changes all the time. When the constitution was adopted it imposed so many changes on our culture. When the child marriage was banned it changed our culture, when women got property rights the culture changed.
Brahmins were not indigenous to Tamil, so they too were foreigners.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Before that we (tamils) were ruled by some other leaders.
Ancient Tamil Nadu contained three monarchical states, headed by kings called Vendhar and several tribal chieftaincies, headed by the chiefs called by the general denomination Vel or Velir. Still lower at the local level there were clan chiefs called kizhar or mannar. During the 3rd century BCE, the Deccan was part of the Maurya Empire, and from the middle of the 1st century BCE to 2nd century CE the same area was ruled by the Satavahana dynasty.

Pandyas and the Pallavas were not indigenous. Vijaynagara and Marathas were not Tamil either.
So who is foreigner and who is local, then again does it matter to common people. The culture changes all the time. When the constitution was adopted it imposed so many changes on our culture. When the child marriage was banned it changed our culture, when women got property rights the culture changed.
Brahmins were not indigenous to Tamil, so they too were foreigners.

Can anyone say that before the Moguls and British all the kings, monarchs, Royals, etc who ruled us were not Hindus......????

 

[prasad1]

Can anyone say that before the Moguls and British all the kings, monarchs, Royals, etc who ruled us were not Hindus......????

Does it mean a Hindu scoundrel is better than non-hindu scoundrel?

You started the topic with OUR left out community, then you have now defining our people as all Hindus, how did that transformation take place. Then again most of Indians have very similar genetic makeup irrespective of religion, caste and geographic location. That is advantage or disadvantage of a moving target. The Op did not lay down a proper background or criteria. It was at the whim of the poster, then the other posters have no right to complain.

What exactly is the plight of common people under any ruler.
Did it matter to common people whether Ram ruled or Ravana ruled?

Some of the common folks were better off under British rule than the local gunda-raj.
Similarly some of the brahmins had lot more privilege under British rule than that under Independent India.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I think you have misunderstood that! Your ipad or laptop is not going to come in the way of Vedic life...You can be a modern Smartha who is computer savvy but still do all the Nitya Karma with vigor! You can chant the rudram chamakam or the maha mrityunjaya mantra & watch your favorite show on an ipad..Maha swamigal did not say you should earn your living as a Vedic pandit only..But he insisted on continuing the tradition of Vedas for global welfare!

I appreciate your blind support of the Kanchi Seer. Please let me know the real meaning of the following:

பிராம்மணர்கள் மறுபடி வைதிகத்துக்குத் திரும்புவது ஒன்றுதான் இப்போது ஏற்பட்டிருக்கிற இத்தனை கோளாறுகளும் தீருவதற்கு ஒரே பரிகாரம் என்கிறேன்.

What is the meaning of Vaidheegam - profession of Shastrigal or performing Nithya Karma? If it is profession, the various problems like terrorism, poverty, disease, natural calamity etc. will be solved. How? Can we presume that since Smarthas move away from Vaidheegam, world, in general, and India, in particular, face the above problems? Is it not indirectly making us responsible for this?

 

[zebra16]

I would like to share an article appeared in the Hindu dated: 22.11. 2015 which is self explanatory.

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The story of an unusual social group

by RADHIKA SANTHANAM

Tamil Brahmans dominated administration, law, and the cultural sphere. Pictures show Rukmini Devi Arundale, the founder of Kalakshetra; Justice Krishna Iyer; violinist Lalgudi Jayaraman. Photo: The Hindu Archives and Wikimedia commons
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Understanding Tamil Brahmans is essential to trace how the concepts of both class and caste have changed, and how past systems of oppression were sought to be broken down by political and social movements.

U.R. Ananthamurthy, in his award-winning novel Samskara: A Rite for a Dead Man, deals with a tricky question: “Who is a real Brahman?” In a crumbling agraharam, or exclusive Brahman quarter, in the event of the death of a non-conformist, Naranappa, is the real Brahman the one who follows shastra and cremates Naranappa’s body or the one who refuses to do so, for the person in question is not considered one of their own? Samskara was explosive in the 1960s not only because it was perceived as anti-casteist, but also because it showed how tradition can be not just confusing, but also stifling at times.

Excerpt:

Tamil Brahmans is an essential read for all those who wish to understand how the concepts of both class and caste have changed. And for the community itself, an “unusual social group”, as Fuller and Narasimhan refer to them, this book will help them learn and reflect upon their achievements, gain a wider perspective of their history, and smile knowingly at the descriptions of their present lives. And to answer the question in Samskara: There is no “real” Brahman after all.


Read more at: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/the-story-of-an-unusual-social-group/article7904392.ece

Dear Bala,

I thought you started this thread to seek suggestive ideas for "preservation of TB culture (whatever the word *culture* may mean).

I do not know how you find the case of Rukmini Devi Arundale and V R Krishna Iyer appropriate or in support of the OP.

Rukmini Devi Arundale got married to George Arundale of Theosophical Society. If inter religious marriage was one of the solutions, then what was wrong with the now closed thread in which some had suggested across the board marriage for TBs?

Sri Krishna Iyer is an avowed athiest. How can he be a torch bearer for the ritual following TBs?

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Does it mean a Hindu scoundrel is better than non-hindu scoundrel?

You started the topic with OUR left out community, then you have now defining our people as all Hindus, how did that transformation take place. Then again most of Indians have very similar genetic makeup irrespective of religion, caste and geographic location. That is advantage or disadvantage of a moving target. The Op did not lay down a proper background or criteria. It was at the whim of the poster, then the other posters have no right to complain.

What exactly is the plight of common people under any ruler.
Did it matter to common people whether Ram ruled or Ravana ruled?

Some of the common folks were better off under British rule than the local gunda-raj.
Similarly some of the brahmins had lot more privilege under British rule than that under Independent India.

Mind your words.

Why did you use words like scoundrel? Can't you present your case better with your rich expereince in this forum?

What if I am povoked and started to abuse ??

I am just trying to keep myself cool in the interest of the thread.

Don't provoke me??

You may say it is transformation and I may say it is reformation.

Try to read history again and again.

And now read the OP and the subsequent postings again again.

One among the points projected is how are the cultures viz. Moguls, British and Dravidian cultures had impact on us the Brahmins, our culture, tradition, etc

Try to keep your postings in line with the OP?

And be kind.

Thanks

 

[sravna]

Here is the vision statement:

To not only preserve but also propagate the good values which have sustained the world and which at present are most critically needed and to exhort the tamil brahmin community whose members have played a pivotal role in the past in spreading such good values, to use their ability and knowledge with even greater intensity to help realize the goal of balanced thinking among people based on the practice of values.


Note: I think the culture of the tamil brahmin community will be intact if the above goals are realized. Kindly note that the TB community cannot hope to preserve their culture when the rest of the world is decaying.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Bala,

I thought you started this thread to seek suggestive ideas for "preservation of TB culture (whatever the word *culture* may mean).

I do not know how you find the case of Rukmini Devi Arundale and V R Krishna Iyer appropriate or in support of the OP.

Rukmini Devi Arundale got married to George Arundale of Theosophical Society. If inter religious marriage was one of the solutions, then what was wrong with the now closed thread in which some had suggested across the board marriage for TBs?

Sri Krishna Iyer is an avowed athiest. How can he be a torch bearer for the ritual following TBs?

I agree sir.

It is to emphasis as to how some of us have changed.

 

[vgane]

I appreciate your blind support of the Kanchi Seer. Please let me know the real meaning of the following:

பிராம்மணர்கள் மறுபடி வைதிகத்துக்குத் திரும்புவது ஒன்றுதான் இப்போது ஏற்பட்டிருக்கிற இத்தனை கோளாறுகளும் தீருவதற்கு ஒரே பரிகாரம் என்கிறேன்.

What is the meaning of Vaidheegam - profession of Shastrigal or performing Nithya Karma? If it is profession, the various problems like terrorism, poverty, disease, natural calamity etc. will be solved. How? Can we presume that since Smarthas move away from Vaidheegam, world, in general, and India, in particular, face the above problems? Is it not indirectly making us responsible for this?

I think you are trying to twist the meaning of Vaideegam-The root word is Vaidik & it means a person following the Vedas..Following the Vedic anushtanams & who is having knowledge of the Vedas..

I do understand what a full time Vaideegam means!! Incidentally who is your family Acharya?

 

[renuka]

Note: I think the culture of the tamil brahmin community will be intact if the above goals are realized. Kindly note that the TB community cannot hope to preserve their culture when the rest of the world is decaying.

Agreed.

Sravna...only you have an universal outlook even though you are a torch bearer of TB culture.

You have a wider view on humanity as a whole.

What you say is true....there is no use for just one community to preserve their culture when there is decline in values for the rest of the world.

That in fact would be very dangerous cos one would be an open target to others and lose out.

So the need of the era is for upliftment of human values of entire humanity is steps that do not condone radical change but rather starting in simple changes and steps.

Keep it up Sravna.