How to retain our left out community???

[Vaagmi]

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Dear Shri Vaagmi,

Though the body is within space time , our mind can be beyond space and time. The vedas itself which is spiritual knowledge can be grasped only by minds which are beyond space time. So being beyond space time is not something which has no tangible meaning.

What you say is not borne out by scriptures/facts.

YadA vAcha nivartantE
aprApya manassA saha.

The reality is beyond vEdas too and that is why mind returned unable to explain it. And you are speaking about the mind being beyond space time and understanding the spiritual knowledge.

If the mind can go beyond space time to grasp reality why is it not able to explain it when it gets back within the space time? After all languages are just constructs. There is even a few pictorial languages which are gross in representing and conveying ideas across. So what I said still stands-that the mind even if it is able to go and be beyond space time constraints (which possibility I doubt), it is unable to explain reality after getting back into space time and that means there is no tangible meaning available till date gained from all these flights into fancy.

I would be happy to be proved wrong.

 

[sravna]

What you say is not borne out by scriptures/facts.

YadA vAcha nivartantE
aprApya manassA saha.

The reality is beyond vEdas too and that is why mind returned unable to explain it. And you are speaking about the mind being beyond space time and understanding the spiritual knowledge.

If the mind can go beyond space time to grasp reality why is it not able to explain it when it gets back within the space time? After all languages are just constructs. There is even a few pictorial languages which are gross in representing and conveying ideas across. So what I said still stands-that the mind even if it is able to go and be beyond space time constraints (which possibility I doubt), it is unable to explain reality after getting back into space time and that means there is no tangible meaning available till date gained from all these flights into fancy.

I would be happy to be proved wrong.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

It is very difficult or even impossible to put across in words what is experienced by mind. What the mind experiences is a holistic knowledge with so many interconnections that words can't capture it. Is it possible to fully capture in words what is conveyed in even a picture? So one who has gone beyond space time can act as a guide and show the right path but it is by oneself one has to experience the truth

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

There are multiple ways to interpret anything.

But to a great extent I see shades of Vaishnavaism in your explanation and the subconscious/conscious loyalty to it that binds your mind.

At times we need to shed personal preferences if we need to get technical.

One does not MISS out in life if one is technical...that's how some people are wired.

Bhakti may be Madhuram and so is Delusion....the Glycemic Index might differ..thats all!


I feel at times Bhaktism is deluding cos everyone gets into a frenzy of enjoying the imaginary nectar of bliss...100% sure of Sayujyam as the end point of their countless experiences of ecstasy ..imagining a promised land where everyone is a Smurfy shade of blue.

Its almost tempting the person to join the frenzy...somewhat like another religion where Virgins are promised.

How different is it...its just sense based...to even think of Vaikuntha or Sayujya is still very much attachment to sensual gratification.

I have to agree with Sravna here that there must be something beyond even time and space.

Yes...none of us might even know it but that does not mean we are not having fun in life.

May be fun for some is going beyond time and space and fun for some is Namasmaranam hoping for Sayujya.

Renukaji,

The temptation to typecast, label and put in a pigeon hole the people whose views are different from our views is not new to me. I have come across this several times in this forum. And you have done the same now.

Please make no mistake. I come from the stable of leftist ideology where I had grown up in most of my college days. So if you think there is vaishnavism in what I say, do understand that my vaishnavism is by choice after a conscious study and understanding of what is good in it.

But the moment you identify the vaishnava in me, you get stuck with that label and you can never move forward. And I find that proved amply in your post.

Thus bhakti and madhuram are delusion for you while the blue, flying unicorn of a universal consciousness is just hot air for many others. I have studied Shankara. Period.

You said there is something beyond time and space which we might not know. This is precisely what I am also telling. I only add that why bother about it and waste time over it. Use your equipments to project it in virtual reality and enjoy it. If you are too lazy to do even that, go your way and be an atheist.

I have love to shower, bhakti to indulge,reverence to hold, and finally awareness to realize that these are all conveniences only in a way.

May be people who wear glasses which identify vaishnavism exclusively are beyond all these simple pleasures. LOL.

Who is right and who is wrong?

No one...there is something beyond..none of us know it..but I do not think its called Narayana.

The knot. You do not know a thing in the first sentence. In the very next sentence you know what it is not for sure.

Pray tell me what it is.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

It is very difficult or even impossible to put across in words what is experienced by mind. What the mind experiences is a holistic knowledge with so many interconnections that words can't capture it. Is it possible to fully capture in words what is conveyed in even a picture?

I am unable to agree with this interpretation of the state of affairs. Let us agree to differ.

So one who has gone beyond space time can act as a guide and show the right path but it is by oneself one has to experience the truth

The very nature of the assertion is such that there is no possibility for independent replication and validation. So this remains unacceptable.

 

[renuka]

Renukaji,

The temptation to typecast, label and put in a pigeon hole the people whose views are different from our views is not new to me. I have come across this several times in this forum. And you have done the same now.

Please make no mistake. I come from the stable of leftist ideology where I had grown up in most of my college days. So if you think there is vaishnavism in what I say, do understand that my vaishnavism is by choice after a conscious study and understanding of what is good in it.

But the moment you identify the vaishnava in me, you get stuck with that label and you can never move forward. And I find that proved amply in your post.

Thus bhakti and madhuram are delusion for you while the blue, flying unicorn of a universal consciousness is just hot air for many others. I have studied Shankara. Period.

You said there is something beyond time and space which we might not know. This is precisely what I am also telling. I only add that why bother about it and waste time over it. Use your equipments to project it in virtual reality and enjoy it. If you are too lazy to do even that, go your way and be an atheist.

I have love to shower, bhakti to indulge,reverence to hold, and finally awareness to realize that these are all conveniences only in a way.

May be people who wear glasses which identify vaishnavism exclusively are beyond all these simple pleasures. LOL.



The knot. You do not know a thing in the first sentence. In the very next sentence you know what it is not for sure.

Pray tell me what it is.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

I do not subscribe to Advaita anymore...I choose not to have a school of thought cos the moment we have a school of thought we are bound.

Whatever the ideology is..it binds...every ideology to a great extent is just propaganda. Neither do I want to call myself an Atheist cos an Atheist too has his ideology and school of thought...I prefer to be sans ideology and just arrange my thoughts in no particular fashion or order.

I rather go with my gut feeling...right now my gut feeling says that I feel there is something out there..but I am pretty sure its not Narayana.

My feeling is not evidence based..its like how all major religions in the world were written...no evidence.

So its hard to prove or disprove my gut feeling...its not for me to prove but those who are interested may choose to find out.

 

[renuka]

We interrupt this thread for an urgent news for Sravna....

Sravna...go to Chit Chat section.

China made a Robo Monk....a Spiritual AI.

Looks as if the Chinese beat you to it..or did China spy on your website.


http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=31600

 

[auh]

..I choose not to have a school of thought cos the moment we have a school of thought we are bound.

So your school of thought is not to have a school of thought !!

 

[sravna]

We interrupt this thread for an urgent news for Sravna....

Sravna...go to Chit Chat section.

China made a Robo Monk....a Spiritual AI.

Looks as if the Chinese beat you to it..or did China spy on your website.


http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=31600

Dear Renuka,

I am skeptical of all this AI though I think the AI community is rapidly learning and improving its products. My belief is that real AI cannot be made by software. Anything that follows a atep by step algorithm is not good enough to qualify as real intelligence. Real Intelligence should be able to see connections and be able to see the whole. That is my take.

But as I said the field of AI is growing by leaps and bounds and sooner or later will come up with a good solution.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi ji,

1. I do not subscribe to Advaita anymore...I choose not to have a school of thought cos the moment we have a school of thought we are bound.
Whatever the ideology is..it binds...every ideology to a great extent is just propaganda. Neither do I want to call myself an Atheist cos an Atheist too has his ideology and school of thought...I prefer to be sans ideology and just arrange my thoughts in no particular fashion or order.
2. I rather go with my gut feeling...right now my gut feeling says that I feel there is something out there..but I am pretty sure its not Narayana.

3. My feeling is not evidence based..its like how all major religions in the world were written...no evidence.
So its hard to prove or disprove my gut feeling...its not for me to prove but those who are interested may choose to find out.

1. I too am not bound by any school of thought. I use the literature and output by brilliant minds as steps and climb up in search of knowledge. I do not trash or trivialize the steps either for they have served me well. Right now I am going through The Holy Quran (a 1955 edition from Rabwah, Pakistan) and have just finished the long introduction. Just another step in my search.

2. OK. That does not touch me at all. I would just say I prefer to wait till the gut feeling travels up, matures and is wetted and edited by the cerebrum.

3. Not of any immediate use for me. Thanks.

 

[renuka]

blue answers

1. I too am not bound by any school of thought. I use the literature and output by brilliant minds as steps and climb up in search of knowledge. I do not trash or trivialize the steps either for they have served me well. Right now I am going through The Holy Quran (a 1955 edition from Rabwah, Pakistan) and have just finished the long introduction. Just another step in my search.

The answers are not in any book...be it the Vedas,Bible,Quran or Guru Granth.Books only have information not answers.



2. OK. That does not touch me at all. I would just say I prefer to wait till the gut feeling travels up, matures and is wetted and edited by the cerebrum.

Gut is located in the abdomen...it would only cause regurgitation if it travels up and expulsion if it travels downwards.
Gut feeling is digested by the mind and assimilated into essence which the soul partakes.

3. Not of any immediate use for me. Thanks.

May be delayed use eventually. You are welcome.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I am skeptical of all this AI though I think the AI community is rapidly learning and improving its products. My belief is that real AI cannot be made by software. Anything that follows a atep by step algorithm is not good enough to qualify as real intelligence. Real Intelligence should be able to see connections and be able to see the whole. That is my take.

But as I said the field of AI is growing by leaps and bounds and sooner or later will come up with a good solution.

Dear Sravna,

That Chinese AI could not handle some questions and replied that it will refer to its master...I guess its a Dualistic AI..still dependent on thoughts of master.

May be an independent thinking AI would be a better bet...but make sure its a good looking AI.

AI needs to be brainy and good looking too.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,


AI needs to be brainy and good looking too.

Renuka,

I think either intelligence or beauty. Combination of intelligence and beauty is dangerous unless we make it good too.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji,

Your post #460: Blue-yours, Black-my response:

The answers are not in any book...be it the Vedas,Bible,Quran or Guru Granth.Books only have information not answers.

I did not tell you that I look for answers in books. I am studying Quran to understand the thought processes there.

Gut is located in the abdomen...it would only cause regurgitation if it travels up and expulsion if it travels downwards. Gut feeling is digested by the mind and assimilated into essence which the soul partakes.

LOL. I did not say gut feeling = chicken-60 in the gut. Being a feeling, after adsorption and assimilation it goes to cerebrum. And I meant only that.

May be delayed use eventually. You are welcome.

Lets see. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

I think either intelligence or beauty. Combination of intelligence and beauty is dangerous unless we make it good too.

Come on Sravna...I don't think that is entirely true...you are not a dangerous guy!

I feel the ideal human being is a person who has both beauty and intelligence and a compassionate heart.

Its a known fact that those who only have intelligence always secretly wished they had beauty and those who have only beauty secretly wished to have more intelligence.

When a person has both..he/she does not wish anything else and concentrates on using both beauty and intelligence at the right situation for the right purpose.

Sravna..after all even God is described as combination of beauty,Supreme Intelligence and compassion.

Believe me 99% of people would stop praying if God was some average Joe.

No one would want to recite Om Average Joeyaaya Namah.

 

[sravna]

Come on Sravna...I don't think that is entirely true...you are not a dangerous guy!

I feel the ideal human being is a person who has both beauty and intelligence and a compassionate heart.

Its a known fact that those who only have intelligence always secretly wished they had beauty and those who have only beauty secretly wished to have more intelligence.

When a person has both..he/she does not wish anything else and concentrates on using both beauty and intelligence at the right situation for the right purpose.

Sravna..after all even God is described as combination of beauty,Supreme Intelligence and compassion.

Believe me 99% of people would stop praying if God was some average Joe.
No one would want to recite Om Average Joeyaaya Namah.

Dear Renuka,

Don't you think the ego would be very high for a person with both beauty and intelligence? Compassion can however temper that ego. But if a machine with beauty, intelligence and compassion exists who would want to be with other humans?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Don't you think the ego would be very high for a person with both beauty and intelligence? Compassion can however temper that ego. But if a machine with beauty, intelligence and compassion exists who would want to be with other humans?

Dear Sravna,

Nope..why should it be high?

With true intelligence comes humility.

We often equate intelligence with academic qualifications...its not always true.

A person who has high ego is not truly intelligent.

So a person having true intelligence even if he or she is good looking they would not feel inflated with ego becos they have a deeper understanding of life and its functions.

Ego is a sign of low self esteem.


BTW a machine will always be a machine...it can never replace a human no matter how good a machine is unless its able to become human like Pinocchio who eventually became human.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Nope..why should it be high?

With true intelligence comes humility.

We often equate intelligence with academic qualifications...its not always true.

A person who has high ego is not truly intelligent.

So a person having true intelligence even if he or she is good looking they would not feel inflated with ego becos they have a deeper understanding of life and its functions.

Ego is a sign of low self esteem.


BTW a machine will always be a machine...it can never replace a human no matter how good a machine is unless its able to become human like Pinocchio who eventually became human.

Well said Renuka

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sravna,
Nope..why should it be high?
With true intelligence comes humility.
We often equate intelligence with academic qualifications...its not always true.
A person who has high ego is not truly intelligent.
So a person having true intelligence even if he or she is good looking they would not feel inflated with ego becos they have a deeper understanding of life and its functions.
Ego is a sign of low self esteem.
BTW a machine will always be a machine...it can never replace a human no matter how good a machine is unless its able to become human like Pinocchio who eventually became human.

Dear Renukaji,

I have these questions for you. Could you please answer them?

1. What is humility or rather what are its contours?

2. When does humility end and self negation start?

3, Can ego be completely suppressed? If so where goes the "self" after losing its form and substance?

 

[renuka]

Blue are my answers.

Dear Renukaji,

I have these questions for you. Could you please answer them?

1. What is humility or rather what are its contours?

Humility per my understanding is not an outward show which many people put on by dressing up overtly simple..walking with head facing the grounds,keeping a smile 24/7..never getting affected by anything etc...that is just acting!LOL

Truly humility is a confidence that comes from a deep understanding that nothing we have is actually permanently ours so there is no need to get carried away with any special attribute,ability,talent,looks...one understands that every attribute needs to function right with regards to time,place and person and everything is subject to change.

2. When does humility end and self negation start?

How are these two interconnected its hard to explain.
All I can say that humility is a projection of a deep understanding and self negation is an opinion where the evidence is pending.

3, Can ego be completely suppressed? If so where goes the "self" after losing its form and substance?


By Ego I feel you mean Ahamkara...I am the doer ship feeling.

Ego in English is sometimes used to denote a feeling of self importance bordering arrogance but Ego as in Ahamkara is just an acknowledgment of presence of self.

That way I feel its next to impossible to be sans Ahamkara as long as the mind exists.

Some might feel they can lose the "self" but I feel self as in Ahamkara is never lost...it just changes its form...so shedding an old Ahamkara would only mean gaining a new Ahamkara

 

[Vaagmi]

Blue are my answers.

Thank you.

 

[biswa]

Don't you think the ego would be very high for a person with both beauty and intelligence? Compassion can however temper that ego. But if a machine with beauty, intelligence and compassion exists who would want to be with other humans?

You are absolutely right. In fact both are not needed. People with either brains or looks (let's not call it beauty) are usually aware of it, and don't hesitate to let other people know.

 

[renuka]

You are absolutely right. In fact both are not needed. People with either brains or looks (let's not call it beauty) are usually aware of it, and don't hesitate to let other people know.

Looks speaks for itself...everyone has eyes to see beauty but brains takes time to be noticed by others...unless one brags about it!LOL

That again...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and brains are in the skull of the holder.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

brains are in the skull of the holder.

Doctor Mam,

I think the Almighty is very generous in his creation with every one having grey matter ... and what that matters is making best use of it...I mean.. the right and the left...

 

[renuka]

Doctor Mam,

I think the Almighty is very generous in his creation with every one having grey matter ... and what that matters is making best use of it...I mean.. the right and the left...

Yes Sir...you are right...its putting the 50 shades of Grey(matter) to good news is the only matter that matters yet no matter how much this is stressed upon yet it many do not take this matter seriously.

So finally does grey matter really matter or we do not really know what matters?

BTW there is also another matter..what we call grey matter actually isnt really even grey in color when we are alive...its just a different shade of whitish pink

It's only after death that those regions turn a slight hint of grey.

I guess we humans got even the grey matter matter wrong....they named it grey becos of death.

So is death grey in color?

I guess thats a totally different matter!

 

[krish44]

putting grey matter in a head with no matter.lol