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Why?

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Nara

Well-known member
A member directed me to the new discussion on missing posters. I see a flood of posts in a short period of time. It is obvious the absence is noticed, with a touch of discontent by some and a boatload of delight – “good riddance to bad rubbish” -- by many.

Some have divined our return, mostly with trepidation, based on a list of disparate reasons such as no exit message to vacationing. So, with a healthy measure of trepidation from my side as well, I dare make this short post giving brief explanation with the hope it won’t be seen to be lame.

First, there are several people who are abstaining from participation, but I can only speak for myself. There is no clique based coordination of any kind. My action is guided solely by my commitment to my honesty and integrity, not any sense of some sort of tribal solidarity with others.

The reason for my silence is not the opposition I have faced for the ideas I express -- that can never drive me away. If anything, such opposition can only persuade me not to stay silent and be a thorn in their irrational craw. In this respect I must express my profound gratitude to Praveen, he has always supported my freedom of expression.

The reason for my silence, and only that of mine, is my inability to accept the way moderation is applied. Now, I realize moderation is final and nobody is allowed to question the fairness or anything else about it. Anyone caught in this position is expected to leave, silently, which is what I did. This is the reason I left without posting an exit message.

I don’t hold any particular individual responsible for this situation. In many ways this is a catch-22 predicament for the moderators also. IMO, “not hurting the sensitivities of members” is too vague a rule for any moderator to apply and still be seen as impartial by everyone. A more objective guideline such as no foul language, no personal attacks would be much more practical for the moderators to enforce impartially and be seen as impartial, and the members to abide by. But, as they so enigmatically say, it is what it is.

I am fully aware I am not an indispensable member to the forum, and fortunately for me, and I say this with more than mere due respect to Praveen who has always been fair to me personally, the forum is not indispensable to me.

Please note that I am making this post only to offer an explanation, not to initiate a debate on moderation. I will not participate in a debate if one ensues.

I sign off with charity for all and malice towards none ….

Cheers!
 

prasad1

Well-known member
A member directed me to the new discussion on missing posters. I see a flood of posts in a short period of time. It is obvious the absence is noticed, with a touch of discontent by some and a boatload of delight – “good riddance to bad rubbish” -- by many.

Some have divined our return, mostly with trepidation, based on a list of disparate reasons such as no exit message to vacationing. So, with a healthy measure of trepidation from my side as well, I dare make this short post giving brief explanation with the hope it won’t be seen to be lame.

First, there are several people who are abstaining from participation, but I can only speak for myself. There is no clique based coordination of any kind. My action is guided solely by my commitment to my honesty and integrity, not any sense of some sort of tribal solidarity with others.

The reason for my silence is not the opposition I have faced for the ideas I express -- that can never drive me away. If anything, such opposition can only persuade me not to stay silent and be a thorn in their irrational craw. In this respect I must express my profound gratitude to Praveen, he has always supported my freedom of expression.

The reason for my silence, and only that of mine, is my inability to accept the way moderation is applied. Now, I realize moderation is final and nobody is allowed to question the fairness or anything else about it. Anyone caught in this position is expected to leave, silently, which is what I did. This is the reason I left without posting an exit message.

I don’t hold any particular individual responsible for this situation. In many ways this is a catch-22 predicament for the moderators also. IMO, “not hurting the sensitivities of members” is too vague a rule for any moderator to apply and still be seen as impartial by everyone. A more objective guideline such as no foul language, no personal attacks would be much more practical for the moderators to enforce impartially and be seen as impartial, and the members to abide by. But, as they so enigmatically say, it is what it is.

I am fully aware I am not an indispensable member to the forum, and fortunately for me, and I say this with more than mere due respect to Praveen who has always been fair to me personally, the forum is not indispensable to me.

Please note that I am making this post only to offer an explanation, not to initiate a debate on moderation. I will not participate in a debate if one ensues.

I sign off with charity for all and malice towards none ….

Cheers!

Good post. Thanks for the explanation.
 

ShivKC

Active member
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave!!

[video=youtube;TF4RX7fTMOc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF4RX7fTMOc[/video]
 

Brahmanyan

Well-known member
Please note that I am making this post only to offer an explanation, not to initiate a debate on moderation. I will not participate in a debate if one ensues.

I sign off with charity for all and malice towards none ….

Cheers!

Dear Sri Narayanan,

As an admirer of your posts for your honesty and erudition, (though not agreeable some times with my views), I request you to continue with your valuable contributions to the forum.

With warm regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 

zebra16

Well-known member
Now, I realize moderation is final and nobody is allowed to question the fairness or anything else about it. Anyone caught in this position is expected to leave, silently, which is what I did. This is the reason I left without posting an exit message.
Cheers!

Sri Nara Sir,

Thanks for your inputs. With reference to the aforesaid passage, I think you have left the moderators in a bind. My own understanding in inter-acting in this forum is:

(i) The decision of the moderators/admins/owners is/was/will be always "final and binding". I think this is the position since the inception of the forum.

(ii) The aggrieved party has always been encouraged by Sri Praveen to take up the matter through PMs/emails, instead of questioning the authority/ impartiality of the moderators in open posts. I would feel this is the correct process, given there is always a possibility for nasty scenes to becoming ugly, given the subsequent posts of various members (some of these join only in the "melee" having never been even a pedestrian in the threads).

I defer to your desire not to have a debate/discussion on the topic of moderation. This would be the one and only post of mine in this thread.

Regards,
 
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ozone

Active member
The reason for my silence, and only that of mine, is my inability to accept the way moderation is applied. Now, I realize moderation is final and nobody is allowed to question the fairness or anything else about it. Anyone caught in this position is expected to leave, silently, which is what I did. This is the reason I left without posting an exit message.
Cheers!

where is this expectation coming from? I am told that if some one doesn't like the moderation, he can choose to leave and that choice applies to multitude of things, not just to moderation.
 

sarang

Well-known member
Moderator or the owner of any forum or group has the final say; why question this universal practice?

In fact, the moderator has to step in and exercise his authority whenever there is a stampede.
 

praveen

Life is a dream
Staff member
Anyone caught in this position is expected to leave, silently, which is what I did.

I wonder where you got this information from.

Let me make very very clear and clarify as well.

Till date, we have only asked one member to leave because they would not conform to what we asked them i.e. refrain from participating in topics where they cannot control their emotions. We asked the member to ignore remarks but they chose not to.

Only when we exhausted all options to keep things under control, we gave them two choices (note - we did not ask them to go right away). The 1st choice was - leave the forum. The 2nd was to stay and participate but ignore, refrain and leave bygones be bygones.

The member chose to leave.

With regards to Naraji, i clearly told him what was happening should not concern him because the member told me they wanted to leave but messaged Naraji they did not want to leave.

In such a situation i asked him not to jump into someone else's battle. That was the end of communication with Naraji.

Ultimately in any forum anywhere, questioning the moderator in a public post is not accepted. If at all there is an issue, all that we ask is, send a private message and let us resolve it in private rather than making it into a public slugfest. If that happens, the moderating team (whoever it is) will have to come down hard. We simply cannot have 1 or 2 or 3 members having a free reign at the expense of the moderating team.

We have discussed a lot of such things in private and have come to a solution that benefitted both sides.

Over and out.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Folks,

Let me also clarify one more thing for the benefit of the members:

Professor Nara Ji said:
IMO, “not hurting the sensitivities of members” is too vague a rule for any moderator to apply and still be seen as impartial by everyone. A more objective guideline such as no foul language, no personal attacks would be much more practical for the moderators to enforce impartially and be seen as impartial, and the members to abide by. But, as they so enigmatically say, it is what it is.

We have established certain guidelines on moderating - of course personal attacks are moderated as well as any statements that embrace violence or encourage the law breaking.

Regarding the statements that 'affect the sentiments' of a group of folks - so far this has been applied on two instances:
1. Because Gurus are in our tradition, unsubstantiated attacks on our Gurus were moderated, because the sentiments of the Bhakthas are involved. A person left the Forum on this account some time ago, because his words were moderated on.

2. Attacks on other religions and sects that are value based from one's own perspective philosophy/religion without any substantiation. I have moderated on many of these including ad hominem attacks across other fellow sects of our religion, as well as other religions.

Now what Professor Nara Ji perhaps is citing is my soft deletion (can be revived easily) of two posts of a member that in my opinion contained material that would inflame passions of a certain group and would be inflammatory. These postings came right after a big tussle with this member on Moderation, which was done both in public (because the person would not use the PM) as well as in private, with Sri Praveen fully involved. Right after the clean up, these two postings were made out of the blue, without any context with little contextual reference to the topic at hand. So I chose to soft delete these two posts (already there was a post with negative comment by another member on these posts that I had to moderate on) and said that these were temporary deletes pending clarifications in private from the poster. Firstly, I wanted to know the authorship and secondly I wanted to get the full meaning so that my interpretation can be answered. But the member chose to disregard my request and chose to challenge the moderators by re-posting the same info. This left us with no choice then.

It was not arbitrary. Such postings would have created more negative responses and guess who had to clean them up? But if the author had discussed the import of the postings with us, and if an explanation attached to the postings context and meaning would have reduced the misconception conveyed by those posts, we would have gladly re-posted. But it was not to be, because the poster took a path that we as moderators can not allow.

I hope this explains.

Regards,
KRS
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
dear Mr. KRS,

You need NOT take so much trouble in explaining the situations that lead to your actions.

We all KNOW and realise what you are put through in this thankless job.

Fault finding is so easy but these situations are created by the same fault finders. Is it not?

Let not these bother you so much as to ruin your precious health.

Time and again it is being proved that "Age is only a mere number."

with warm regards, :pray2:
Visalakshi Ramani
 
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kunjuppu

Well-known member
dear Mr. KRS,

You need NOT take so much trouble in explaining the situations that lead to your actions.

We all KNOW and realise what you are put through in this thankless job.

Fault finding is so easy but these situations are created by the same fault finders. Is it not?

Let not these bother you so much as to ruin your precious health.

Time and again it is being proved that "Age is only a mere number."

with warm regards, :pray2:
Visalakshi Ramani

???
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
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prasad1

Well-known member
dear Mr. KRS,

You need NOT take so much trouble in explaining the situations that lead to your actions.

We all KNOW and realise what you are put through in this thankless job.

Fault finding is so easy but these situations are created by the same fault finders. Is it not?

Let not these bother you so much as to ruin your precious health.

Time and again it is being proved that "Age is only a mere number."

with warm regards, :pray2:
Visalakshi Ramani

I agree with Ms. Ramani's view. I got penalized and took my lumps. Why should any body else get a pass. A free site is not a licence to post anything, the moderator has to do his/her job. Just because there is freedom of speech, you can not call our "fire" in a crowded theater and claim free speech. There are boundaries to every privilege.
I am sorry some of us can not take but are ready to dish it out. I do not like this group mentality, so they are saying either accept all of us or non of us. I am terribly disappointed.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Srimathi VR Ji,

Thank you for your kind words. Words don't affect my health.

Regards,
KRS
 
OP
OP
Nara

Nara

Well-known member
..... because the member told me they wanted to leave but messaged Naraji they did not want to leave.
Please permit one more small correction, the member in question did not message me saying they did not want to leave. I misread the e-mail and communicated a wrong impression to Praveen. I take full responsibility for the misunderstanding.

Cheers!
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
I agree with Ms. Ramani's view. I got penalized and took my lumps. Why should any body else get a pass. A free site is not a licence to post anything, the moderator has to do his/her job. Just because there is freedom of speech, you can not call our "fire" in a crowded theater and claim free speech. There are boundaries to every privilege.
I am sorry some of us can not take but are ready to dish it out. I do not like this group mentality, so they are saying either accept all of us or non of us. I am terribly disappointed.

It is not only "all of us or none of us" :grouphug:

but also "my way or the highway!" :flock:
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Dear Mr. KRS,
I get scorched by the fiery words the same way an insect does.
Good that you are are 'word-proof.'
It suits your job well and is an asset.
with warm regards, :pray2:
Visalakshi Ramani.

Dear Srimathi VR Ji,

Thank you for your kind words. Words don't affect my health.

Regards,
KRS
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Prasd1 Ji and Srimathi VR Ji,

To be fair, Professor Nara Ji has stated above in his post that he is silent not because of any 'tribal' reasons. Can we not take him at his word and not cast aspersions?

Just my two cents.........

Regards,
KRS
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

In case you have not yet understood my 'cryptic message'

it can be put in simple words thus. :blabla:

Age must go hand in hand with wisdom. So also educations.

But more often than not, age remains a mere number and does

not associate with the maturity and wisdom it is supposed to

breed and develop in a person. :tsk:

Thank you for your feedback in Mrs. K. B. Sundarambal style

"???" "enna? enna? enna enna enna?" :rolleyes:

with warm regards, :pray2:
Visa
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
Sure enough! You won't see me in this thread again! It is a promise :)

Dear Sri Prasd1 Ji and Srimathi VR Ji,

To be fair, Professor Nara Ji has stated above in his post that he is silent not because of any 'tribal' reasons. Can we not take him at his word and not cast aspersions?

Just my two cents.........

Regards,
KRS
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Srimathi VR Ji,

Hope you did not take my comment as offensive. Please don't leave the thread if any more comments from you will add value, as they already have. :)

Regards,
KRS
 

prasad1

Well-known member
There are some stores in India, where they hang out "going out of Business" banner for years. They are never going out of business, it is just a gimmick for increasing sale. If somebody wants to leave they leave, not just keep coming back for one more last time.
 

Visalakshi Ramani

Well-known member
I think promises and pie crusts are made to be broken. :becky:

No hard feelings sir! I promise (one more time) :)

I guess I have told whatever I felt like saying.

However I would like to record just one more of my

observations before I leave this thread.

Even small kids get bored playing the same game all the

time. They need variety and fresh excitement.

So it beats my understanding how people well advanced

in age and education never get tired of the

"Hit out, pout, quit and get back" game.

Looks and sounds more like a formula movie with

assorted number of dance and fighting scenes.
with warm regards,
Visalskhi Ramani.


Dear Srimathi VR Ji,

Hope you did not take my comment as offensive. Please don't leave the thread if any more comments from you will add value, as they already have. :)

Regards,
KRS
 
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