Why was Mahabali killed?

[gopaindu]

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Dear Sirs/Madam,
We are overlooking one point that even the name rig veda, yajur veda, sama veda and Atharva(na) veda were given by Saint Veda Vyasa as there was no division of Vedas prior to his venture to divide vedas into four parts viz., slokas in praise of God, the procedures for conduct of sacrificies, the musical part of vedas and lastly secrets of vedas such as mantra, tantra,etc. Now, we are in 5112th year of Kali Yuga whereas Vyasa is believed to have lived in Dwapara Yuga which is roughly more than 5100 years old. Vyasa is believed to be an incarnation/ avatara of Vishnu as per Vishnu Sahasranama Stotram( Vyasa was Vishnuroopa and Vishnu was Vyasaroopa) which is part of Mahabharata. Compilation of 18 Puranas are prior to Mahabharata. Division of Vedas was undertaken prior to compilation of 18 Puranas. Therefore, it is clear that Vamana Purana existed more than 5200 years ago. Coming to intrepretation of Rig Veda verses in support of Trivikrama avatara but not about existance of Mahabali as the name was not found in the verses, Vedas or Puranas or Ithihasas were neither created and nor destroyed. They simply vanish slowly due to deterioration of interest in them. There is a Tamil word Paarpanan denoting the brahmims. The word implies that the brahmins were doing research in Vedas continuously as one word in Sanskrit had different meanings and especially in Vedas, the meanings got changed w.r.t. the context and one's ability/level of intellect to grasp the meanining. The persons doing research used to see different meanings according to their intellect. Even Ramayana was supposed to have been written by Valmiki who was hunter turned rishi due to penance and visualised the entire episode through Sage Narada's boon. Mahabharata alos was written by Lord Ganesha with meaning while sage Vyasa uttered the verses of Mahabharata. Vyasa could compile puranas through only visualisation (Gnana Dhrishti). It may be hard to believe but, even the words uttered by us could be heard by posteriors provided they were tuned. So, Vamana Purana came as an explanation to Rig Veda Verse which was cryptic. In the Vedas, there are prayers to Varuna, Indra,Agni, Vayu, etc. deities also. It does not mean that these deities were equal in power to Lord Vishnu or a friend to Vishnu. Even the evolution of this universe also implies that there was one supreme being which created the universe and had also created other galaxies also but which could not be accessed or visualised by the normal human beings but only by those who were bestowed or who had acquired extra ordinary powers through penance orcontemplation. raja48

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Sirs/Madam,
We are overlooking one point that even the name rig veda, yajur veda, sama veda and Atharva(na) veda were given by Saint Veda Vyasa as there was no division of Vedas prior to his venture to divide vedas into four parts viz., slokas in praise of God, the procedures for conduct of sacrificies, the musical part of vedas and lastly secrets of vedas such as mantra, tantra,etc.

This is a mere claim. Only the texts of the Rig, Sama and Yajur were recognised as the 'Vedas' (trayi-vedas). The trayi division is considered an ancient one. The Atharva texts were added as "Vedas" only much later. Tantric worship / agama texts are considered non-vedic even today. Sangom sir has also posted on this.

Now, we are in 5112th year of Kali Yuga whereas Vyasa is believed to have lived in Dwapara Yuga which is roughly more than 5100 years old. Vyasa is believed to be an incarnation/ avatara of Vishnu as per Vishnu Sahasranama Stotram( Vyasa was Vishnuroopa and Vishnu was Vyasaroopa) which is part of Mahabharata. Compilation of 18 Puranas are prior to Mahabharata. Division of Vedas was undertaken prior to compilation of 18 Puranas.

Wrong. Most puranas were composed from 3rd century onwards. This coincides with the uprising of Pushyamitra Sunga who is associated with Manusmrithi. The period of puranas and later-dharmashastras coincide with one another (both occur during the same time frame). Puranas were merely utilized for self-serving objectives, otherwise there is no necessity to compose them.

Therefore, it is clear that Vamana Purana existed more than 5200 years ago.

So you are saying that just because Vyasa lived 5200 years ago, therefore Vamana Purana also existed 5200 years ago. Unfortunately, nobody can accept mere assertions.

Coming to intrepretation of Rig Veda verses in support of Trivikrama avatara but not about existance of Mahabali as the name was not found in the verses, Vedas or Puranas or Ithihasas were neither created and nor destroyed. They simply vanish slowly due to deterioration of interest in them.

Wow! Sir, so itihaasas and puranas have existed since the beginning of time and are endless

There is a Tamil word Paarpanan denoting the brahmims. The word implies that the brahmins were doing research in Vedas continuously as one word in Sanskrit had different meanings and especially in Vedas, the meanings got changed w.r.t. the context and one's ability/level of intellect to grasp the meanining.

The word paarpan does not denote a brahmin. Enough obfuscation has been done by those who claim to be brahmins in this regard. And there is no proof that either brahmins or parpans were doing "research in vedas" or that because of such "research" the meanings got changed.

The persons doing research used to see different meanings according to their intellect. Even Ramayana was supposed to have been written by Valmiki who was hunter turned rishi due to penance and visualised the entire episode through Sage Narada's boon. Mahabharata alos was written by Lord Ganesha with meaning while sage Vyasa uttered the verses of Mahabharata. Vyasa could compile puranas through only visualisation (Gnana Dhrishti). It may be hard to believe but, even the words uttered by us could be heard by posteriors provided they were tuned. So, Vamana Purana came as an explanation to Rig Veda Verse which was cryptic.

What is the connection between Vamana Purana and the roles of Valmiki and Ganesha? What is cryptic in the Vamana Purana? I find Vamana Purana quite stupid actually. They say, nakal karo to akal se karo (if you wanna copy do it with some sense), but Vamana Purana copied the Trivikrama concept and made a kichadi out of it. The dal or paruppu stands out uncooked and unassimilated as a later addition.

In the Vedas, there are prayers to Varuna, Indra,Agni, Vayu, etc. deities also. It does not mean that these deities were equal in power to Lord Vishnu or a friend to Vishnu. Even the evolution of this universe also implies that there was one supreme being which created the universe and had also created other galaxies also but which could not be accessed or visualised by the normal human beings but only by those who were bestowed or who had acquired extra ordinary powers through penance orcontemplation. raja48

Wow, really sir, so many things are claimed in the name of Vedas. People have created so called "rishis' into some extra-terrestrial, non-human, entities who knew everything. That is why we in the 21st century still sitting on caste, while the rest of the world has progressed to moon landings.

But then, why do we need a spaceship to land on the moon. We can ask some of our rishis from thiruvannamalai to do astral travel and bring back some rocks for lab tests. Or better still organise a homam that will make people fly to the moon.

 

[gopaindu]

Madam H.H.,
1. Will you pl. send the post No. of Sargam SIr to me with the whole URL? I hope you will recall that whatever i.e.Vedas/ Smritis/Puranas/Ithi-hasas, we have today were memorised and recited generation after generation till the writing/preserving for posterity was discovered/ invented. That being the case, how which came into existance much later can be taken as authroity? The books were written mostly by foreign authors who came to India, met people, got the local language intrepreted through a linguist and based on the memory/grasp of the subject. The theory of Aryans, Dravidans, Nagas, etc. might have been wantonly interpolated in their books to tarnish Hinduism. Last but not the least, even U.K.was not in existance in the present form till 8th Century B.C. This also I read in some English book. My habit is to remember what I have read rather than to remember to quote the title. In my opinion, quoting titles is only a symbol of boasting abour scholarship. As I have said in one of my earlier posts, if you do not believe certain things, you are free to hold your belief and notions. My only request is that one should not criticise others' beliefs as imaginary. Belief need not be based on facts. raja48

 

[happyhindu]

Madam H.H.,
1. Will you pl. send the post No. of Sargam SIr to me with the whole URL? I hope you will recall that whatever i.e.Vedas/ Smritis/Puranas/Ithi-hasas, we have today were memorised and recited generation after generation till the writing/preserving for posterity was discovered/ invented. That being the case, how which came into existance much later can be taken as authroity? The books were written mostly by foreign authors who came to India, met people, got the local language intrepreted through a linguist and based on the memory/grasp of the subject. The theory of Aryans, Dravidans, Nagas, etc. might have been wantonly interpolated in their books to tarnish Hinduism. Last but not the least, even U.K.was not in existance in the present form till 8th Century B.C. This also I read in some English book. My habit is to remember what I have read rather than to remember to quote the title. In my opinion, quoting titles is only a symbol of boasting abour scholarship. As I have said in one of my earlier posts, if you do not believe certain things, you are free to hold your belief and notions. My only request is that one should not criticise others' beliefs as imaginary. Belief need not be based on facts. raja48

Shri Raja48,

You can go to Sangom Sir's profile and click on 'View Forum Posts', then you can go thru his posts. I am not able to post specific URLs on various discussions on Atharva Veda right now.

Your theories are mere assertions borne by belief. They are not based on facts. All languages are formed or borne out of something, and subsequently change over time. It is hard to beleive Chennai Tamil actually evolved from Sentamizh. But then all languages evolve, change, or die out. All compositions are man made. So are Vedas, Itihasas, Puranas, etc.

Not just westerners, there are many indians also (like rao, mahadevan, kane, bhandarkar, etc) who investigat(ed) or research(ed) into things. Evidences that are archeological, linguisitic, historical, etc are used to understand various things. Mere claims alone won't do. But anyways, you are free to hold to your pet theories out of belief. Please be assured that Nobody is criticising you for any imaginary belief, or for anything else, at all.

Regards.

 

[wrongan]

But then, why do we need a spaceship to land on the moon. We can ask some of our rishis from thiruvannamalai to do astral travel and bring back some rocks for lab tests. Or better still organise a homam that will make people fly to the moon.[/QUOTE]

I am very sorry These things are possible with full knowledge of vedhas but with full involvement.There are people who speak against our treasure because it imposes strict conditions to follow and they are not ready to follow them My sincere question here is how many of you are doing trikala sandhyavanthanam.I am sorry the reply would be in negative.Anyhow I enjoyed the thread because it was highly educative.