• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Who is a pithru and what is the meaning?

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Ramacchandran

Guest
Who is a pithru and what is the meaning?

Pith means, the essence or Juice.Ru means the root. When we born, the seed was the essence of our father, the body was the essence of our mother! When the essence combines, it forms the Karma, on which the Soul Sits. The Karma is received from the father, and immediately forms the Spinal cord, on which the Atma Moolam, the soul the receiver , which receives the vibration from the universe sits and activates the growth of the body and mind!

Once the Child forms, the growth is controlled by Karma. The Karma Filters the Vibrations from the soul, which decides the full growth of the child!

The growth of the child, eats the bone of the mother which reflects in Vomit, and less iron in Mother's body, which attracts Ash. The Pregnant ladies chew Dry ash!

This finds a place in Arka Prakasa, Authored by Ravana, the Lankathypaty.
But the saints, who were of the opinion that Ravana was an Asura, removed his name from that Arka Prakasa, and inserted there name.

This Arka Prakasa palm Leaf is now in Lahore, Punjab University Library.
In 1914, there was a seminor at Lahore and Pandits from South India who presented the papers agreed with this remark.

We are doing Sradhdha, for the root from where we recived our esence!

After compleation of my thesis in Vedas my topic for D.Litt is the science behind Birth, Rebirth and death., the life after death.

I already found few stanzas which talks about the above mentioned topics in the form of question and answers in Vedas, and wish to pentrate in that and for this I already started my move.

The seasons in the world is based on the Mercury and Venus, and I gathered more information.

Do you know that Sun rises in west, north and south too?
Upanishads quotes this.


Here I am mentioning these to mention how the Vedas are created and what a scientists are our forefathers!!

Vedas are not a magic stick but if we approach in right way, we can make wonders!!!

Whatever I quote here has the strong referrence from Vedas.
And Mr.Sheshadri, of OML helps me a lot!
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
ramm,

please accept my ignorance in querying this to you.

in your note, you have explained the concept of pithr. no problem with that.

in my understanding, we treat thevasam, to a sanctimonius extent, for the reverence of our forefathers.

incidentally, i happen to witness the values, lifestyles and social attitudes of my grandfather, for whom, for lack of a son, me as a grandson, was expected to do the last rites.

in my view, and i hold it to this day, starting from when i was 14 to now, when i am 59, he was not a nice man. personally to me. his social attitudes to the dalits.

under threat of punishment, i went through performing the rituals. my mother, whose dad it was, knew my feelings. but condoned the process.

needless to say, it has turned me off, completely, from the concept of ancestor worship of any sort.

more based on your response.

i need input from all our well meaning members, who can empathize, not pull in the scriptures. even worse, those who are trapped in rituals.

thank you.

thank yo.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Kunjuppu-ji,

i can understand this situation.

i know someone who wud rather not have the annual shraddham for his father come any time of the year. he did not cry when his father died, for he was a man who set up a second home in his 40s and brought much heartache to his first wife and children. but now the son does go thru those motions for the father, without his mind or heart in the rituals..

at each stage elderly ppl say we are told not to judge. but really do these rituals work when one's heart is not in it.

i hope sri ramachandran can offer some solution to cases like this.
 
OP
OP
R

Ramacchandran

Guest
Dear Mr.Kunjuppu,

I think you are Sri Vaishnavas. For Sri Vaishnavas the School you are to follow is Gothama School in Gaya. The Sradhdham style is that offering of Pinda will be like Garuda. This I absorbed in Kasi.

According to Veda, our forefather's ' verdict, life is linked with with astronomy and body forms with five boothas, activated by Karma, that is from father's side, through Soul which is a transformer.
We are to do Devasa only on Karma and not for the body
.

So we offer Pinda to, Father, Grand Father and Great Grand father. So that we satisfy ourself that we offered a meal to Pithr.

We are gaining age and heat in our body due to the electrons that received from Sun, and the Vibrations from the Sun is planted within us through the vibrations of Mercury and Venus, through our breasts.

The Sri Daththa Kavasam quotes "Yogadheesaya namah" = Right breast and "Yoga Parayanaya Namah" the left breast. This is responsible for the paralysis on left side of the body and right side of the body. We are sure that VENUS is the one that is responsible for planting Karma in our body.

Further Mr. Kunjuppu, according to me you must practice, Hamasa Kavasam, and chant,
"Hamsa Hamsa Vidhmahe, Parama Hamsaya Deemahe
Thannow Hamsa prochodhayath"

Secondly, we need not do sradhdha for the mothers' side people, every year, even though you put fire and lit last rite.

If you are srivashnava, your school is based on Tanthra rather than Mantras.
Thats the application you people press the tongue and create sound and force.and if you visit Gaya, and kasi you will find what I said is correct.

If you are afraid of Punishments from the pithrs, better to send few hundred rupees to Nachcheyar koil Garudan, ask them to do archana, on a particular day and skip the Sradhdha of your mothers' side. (Mother's Father).

Secondly, Garudan means a rays that comes from the Moon of the Saturn, which is responsible for our last breath. So we say that Garudan has taken the life energy!
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
1) Secondly, we need not do sradhdha for the mothers' side people, every year, even though you put fire and lit last rite.

2) If you are afraid of Punishments from the pithrs, better to send few hundred rupees to Nachcheyar koil Garudan, ask them to do archana, on a particular day and skip the Sradhdha of your mothers' side. (Mother's Father).

Sir,

1) Is mother's side not important? Is she not equal as the father? Are we supposed to give more respect to the father and less to the mother?

2) Why should we be afraid of punishments from the pithrus?
 
OP
OP
R

Ramacchandran

Guest
Here the Hindu philosophy and Vedas quote that the Father's Essence (semen) alone can give life energy based on Karma.

Where as the mothers Juice can create the body, blood and other parts, the father's semen alone can create life energy based on Karma on which sits the soul. So we do Pith karma! It is only to activate the Karma which is a silent spectator. The Karma Continues in this birth too so we are doing the thithi to satisfy the Karma.

At the time of the thithi, we are inviting the pithir, pithu pithir, and prapith maha, so that they take the share of the offerings, and bless us. and slow down the negative actions or make them possitive.

The present life offered by the father is the balance of previous birth, which is coninue as Dasa Balance.

Suppose a man finds some thing which is stolen by another man and enjoyed, the Karma and soul which watch them silently, wait till time comes and grab the oppertunity once it finds way to attack.

For instance, English who grabbed the Vedas palm leaf from us, misunderstood and didn't continue and whereas some of us removed or hidden the name of the original writer and publishing it in our name for money and fame. These persons are suitably rewarded by the Karma.

Regardingthe Mother's side since the mother is offering only body to the child, in pithir karma she is only a spectator. She has Positive energy/ Magnetic force in her which reduces the speed of the electrons from a male!

Regarding Punishment, curses etc., a brahmin through his mind and soul can easily approach the karma, and equalize them with Yagas and Yagnas. so that it satisfies and if he fails in that his ignorance is identified as laziness and other senses in the present body, can not tolerate this ignorance and wish to correct his mistake.

So when the person is approaching a astrologer, the body lets out a magnetic force, so that the astrologer will feel that and tells the ignorance he has made and ask him to correct it.

When a challenging position comes and if we fail to react on that due to absence of mind, which is shadowed by the Karma, which affects us badly we immediatly say that it is Punishment. No it is not a Punishment but the nature is giving a chance to rectify that.

According to Veda there is no birth and death to the soul, the mind. It is continued by karma. we are activating the karma by NaNo technology, which we are putting Arasa samith, which creates lots and lots of Electrons and activate the mind and giving us the energy.

More over after every year yagna, the Sradhdha, we are to plant a tree where we do the sacrifice. In olden days, after the Bokthas took their meals, they bury the leaves on which they planted a herbal tree. But now a days, people bury the leaves or throw them in the temple tank.

For your information Arugam pul was planted on the place where the leaves were burried., so that the karma cools.

But English said, a frog was killed and buried in a place after few ceremonies.

So for karma father's side is important and regarding Punishment, No it is not a punishment, but a chance to identify the mistake the nature uses force so that we are landing in the right path.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Dear Sri Ramacchandran ji,

Thank you for the reply.

I am able to understand some parts but am not able to understand most parts.

However, i request you to explain this in context of science:

Here the Hindu philosophy and Vedas quote that the Father's Essence (semen) alone can give life energy based on Karma.

Where as the mothers Juice can create the body, blood and other parts, the father's semen alone can create life energy based on Karma on which sits the soul. So we do Pith karma!

Regardingthe Mother's side since the mother is offering only body to the child, in pithir karma she is only a spectator. She has Positive energy/ Magnetic force in her which reduces the speed of the electrons from a male!
Its true that men alone carry the Y-chromosome, but the X-Chromosome of the mother is equally important. Naturally as alive cells, both X and Y wud have so-called 'life energy' in them as both X and Y chromosomes are equally involved in creation. Speaking (probably) in your way of expression, a zygote cud represent the union of two souls into one (as advaitha or without a second) (either X and X to produce a female or X and Y to produce a male).

The zygote then develops into a foetus based on both genetic inputs. A son can have his mother's temperment instead of his father's (not just body and blood, he can have his mother's mind).

Then why do the shastras say that only the semen can have life energy or that a woman is a 'silent spectator' in the process of creation?

And what about the antiquated times when men walked earth as hunters and men were not offering tarpanam - did their ancestors curse them or cause harm to them?
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
thank you ramm, happy for your response.

happy, i too have a cousin, of the same mould, where the father abused the mother and lived apart. but on death, at the urgings of the relatives, the son had to perform the last rites against his own wishes.

the wife, pathetically, took care of the father on his last days, as all his erstwhile paramours abandoned him. the idiot relatives called her a 'sita' but would not lift a finger.

somewhere i read, that 'hypocracy is the homage that vice pays to virtue'. more than once in my lifetime, this has been proved true.

ramm, thank you for your very kind reply. unfortunately, i am not of the regimen to follow prescribed solutions to situations which i initially abhor.

still, to keep the peace in the family, in 2000, on the first anniversary of my mom's death, (dad long gone), i went to kasi, and did the ultimate ceremonies for all my ancestors, this maternal grandfather included. and also for many of my rogue ancestors, whose lifetime histories were so off the mark, that they were only whispered.

no matter what, i still find it difficult to put a mark of decency on scoundrels, who just happen to be my ancestors. accidents of birth, i guess, can happen, anytime, to anyone.

but all this has sobered me, to ensure that i treat my children right. and at some point when they judge me as a parent, i hope i will get passing grades. THAT will define my karma.

on a personal note, i am thinking, of going the arya samaj way for my post this life disposal of my physical self. ....

thank you both.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
R

Ramacchandran

Guest
See, the father can seed his part in the womb and the mother keeps that in her and activates and give birth to the baby. First forms the Spinal cord, in the cavity sits the Karma on which the Soul, the pragjna forms. This soul can attract the vibrations from the planets which is responsible for the growth.

The child in the womb, breath through the Naval which directly links the heart, and Lungs not functioning.
At the time of birth, the Naval Cord is Cut, the Child cries, and the breath is planted in the lungs and the child takes its first Planets energy in it and the activation of the vibration of planets begins. The Soul attracts the Vibration and send to Karma, which filters and send in to the body.Based on this Jathaka is written Jagath- Agham, meaning the Universe is mine, Brahma aham, I am the Universe!

When the Karma filters the energy, the nerves responds to them and Kundalini sakthi, which has all the Six senses, divides the energy and circulates in the body and the child grows with Karma.
Who ever is born, his karma is only from the father's side.
Even, the semen is collected through the bones in thigh, and spinal cord of the father, the atma moolam is only from the father's side!

So the Karma from the father is shared by the child male or female!

If the father at the time of intercourse, pray for a brave child and concentrate he is blessed with a brave child.

There are certain herbals that Arka Prakasa quotes. Based on this Pandavas born.

When the father and mother unites there are so many positions and angles which is described in Kajuraho, sculptures and Jain Monks made a full research on this and if make a combine study of this Kajuraho with Arka Prakasa, we can invent many things about child birth and secretes about the birth and death can be discovered.

Sage Bharadhwaja quotes about inhaling of smoke from certain herbals which gives the child a strong mind power, absorbing power like KARNAN.

Even though the Mind and body can be formed at mother's womb, the Karma should co-operate with the body and mind.

The Vedas see all the energy as Positive, Negative and Neutral energy, which is Piththa, Kabha and Vayu, based on South Pole!

Here Hindu Vedic Chemistry is entirely different from the west.
The Vedas see the body as a part of Universe and West see the body as flesh and blood.
Since we are mesmerized by the west, we are not understanding our own philosophy. which shows a better tomorrow!
Hope this clears your doubts.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
<<on a personal note, i am thinking, of going the arya samaj way for my post this life disposal of my physical self. .... >>

Kunjuppu-ji,

My mother had a long time back decided to give away her body for anatomy dissection classes after her eyes and other organs are removed (organ donation). Now this lady is traditional and religious in every way, but she chose that part (there won't be a funeral).

Now old, wrinkled and bloated (in her own words), she in her younger days was this tall-ish, slim, pretty, fair and lovely lady...hard to think she chose that kind of non-traditional way to dismantle herself...now suddenly it makes me feel i should also start planning to decide wht i wanna choose...
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
R

Ramacchandran

Guest
See you can make avahana of Karma in Dharbha grass lit pyre on it and do the rest there. thats enough!
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Sir,

My questions in brown bold:


1) See, the father can seed his part in the womb and the mother keeps that in her and activates and give birth to the baby. First forms the Spinal cord, in the cavity sits the Karma on which the Soul, the pragjna forms. This soul can attract the vibrations from the planets which is responsible for the growth.

When the Karma filters the energy, the nerves responds to them and Kundalini sakthi, which has all the Six senses, divides the energy and circulates in the body and the child grows with Karma.
Who ever is born, his karma is only from the father's side.

So cud it be possible that you are intending to say that a woman provides only X but since a man can provide both X and Y (a man being esentially both a man and a woman), so karma is only from the father? If yes, then what makes the father's X different from a mother's X? After all a man inherited his X from his own mother. He got it from a woman only.

Some yogis have compared love making to a yagna with the womb as the havana pit (plz note they do not seem to look at the role of a lady as "less"). Is there any specific reason why a man is considered the one who passes on whatever is this 'karma'? Cud you please explain what exactly wud 'karma' mean in this sense?

If you say 'karma' sits in the cavity of the spinal cord i can still understand a bit since there is a region in the midbrain that directs formative function of the embryo, it is also the region that yogis call as the place where memories are stored..so its all linked i suppose. But this embryogenesis has come about by an equal role of both the father and the mother since the zygote takes on chromosomes from both parents. Then why is the father alone held responsible for 'karma'?


Even, the semen is collected through the bones in thigh, and spinal cord of the father,the atma moolam is only from the father's side!

Why is the atma moolam from the father only? On what basis do you say semen is collected thru femurs and spinal cord of a male?

So the Karma from the father is shared by the child male or female!

??


If the father at the time of intercourse, pray for a brave child and concentrate he is blessed with a brave child.

i was told that both parents need to have their mind in a certain pattern while attempting to conceive a qualified soul...why father only?

There are certain herbals that Arka Prakasa quotes. Based on this Pandavas born.

But the Pandavas were born to different fathers. Did the mother or the different fathers eat the herbals stuff? (reminds me of how much effort and care went into the process of niyoga in those days..it was never a man of simple stature chosen for the progeny job..and no stone was left unturned to ensure immediate and definite pregnancy; and that too all well calculated for a male progeny).

When the father and mother unites there are so many positions and angles which is described in Kajuraho, sculptures and Jain Monks made a full research on this and if make a combine study of this Kajuraho with Arka Prakasa, we can invent many things about child birth and secretes about the birth and death can be discovered.

What has death got to do with Kamasutra?

Sage Bharadhwaja quotes about inhaling of smoke from certain herbals which gives the child a strong mind power, absorbing power like KARNAN.

Does father or mother or both need to inhale any such smoke?

Even though the Mind and body can be formed at mother's womb, the Karma should co-operate with the body and mind.

???? I don't understand.

The Vedas see all the energy as Positive, Negative and Neutral energy, which is Piththa, Kabha and Vayu, based on South Pole!

I understand vata, pitha and kapha, but south pole ?? Hmm..??

Here Hindu Vedic Chemistry is entirely different from the west.
The Vedas see the body as a part of Universe and West see the body as flesh and blood.

It wud be really nice if you cud explain with more details.


Since we are mesmerized by the west, we are not understanding our own philosophy. which shows a better tomorrow!
Hope this clears your doubts.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
R

Ramacchandran

Guest
If you visit Oriental Manuscript Library in Chenna, refer the boor, Carka Samhita and bowers' manuscript, by jeevika, the Bhudhdha monk who answers all your questions.

As I told earlier we see everything as god. Pancha Pandava born to different father is a false statement. This is only herbals that activates the nerves of the body and mind.

Now tell me Karnan born with Golden Kavasa. and Kundala, ok now when he grown up how the golden ornament he wore also expanded?

Why other members of the same age doesn't give birth to a child with more of Gold?

Why in the earth even the Pandava and even Krishna died?

How you decide rama and krishna is the avatar of Lord Vishnu? these are all only the stories and we the lay men see everything as god, Asura etc., and we are lazy to analys the science the Vedas quotes.

If we analys our surroundings and absorb the happening around us we will be number one in astrophysics and astronomy!

Vedas ask us to analys and question.

I request you to Visit OML. If you wish I also can accompany you!
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Sir,

My inputs in brown


If you visit Oriental Manuscript Library in Chenna, refer the boor, Carka Samhita and bowers' manuscript, by jeevika, the Bhudhdha monk who answers all your questions.

Sir, i have heard of Charaka Samhita from some ayurvedic physicians. Undoubtedly it provides ayurvedic formulas to boost the reproductive side of health. But i seem to be asking different questions for which there are no answers from your end. My question is: On what basis do you say that "karma" is passed only from the father to the child?

As I told earlier we see everything as god. Pancha Pandava born to different father is a false statement. This is only herbals that activates the nerves of the body and mind.

But Mahabharat says Pandavas were born to different fathers. On what basis do you say this is wrong. Has it been written somewhere?

Now tell me Karnan born with Golden Kavasa. and Kundala, ok now when he grown up how the golden ornament he wore also expanded?

Was Karna really born with gold kavasa? Cud this not be a fantasy interpolation / interpretation? Or was it some ancient way of explaining that the man was singularly identifiable because of his strong chest and auditory capacity (he cud hear and shoot a whisper and cud bear the whacks of a mace on his chest like none other).

Why other members of the same age doesn't give birth to a child with more of Gold?

I do not think anyone can be born with metal on him.


Why in the earth even the Pandava and even Krishna died?

Everyone dies. Its the process of creation. Creation moves on the next state of creation.

How you decide rama and krishna is the avatar of Lord Vishnu? these are all only the stories and we the lay men see everything as god, Asura etc., and we are lazy to analys the science the Vedas quotes.

What is asura to one tribe is sura to another tribe...they were inter-tribe fights and cattle-raids and each termed the other as they saw it. Not only Rama and Krishna, Christ and Buddha too were avataric souls or realized souls or souls of so-called "higher-energy". Not everyone recounted the gita, performed superhuman feats or spread teachings as those of christ and budha.

If we analys our surroundings and absorb the happening around us we will be number one in astrophysics and astronomy!

Vedas ask us to analys and question.

This somewhat can contradict with shastras that say a man must be a follower..

I request you to Visit OML. If you wish I also can accompany you!

Thankyou for the offer. I shall remember when i plan to visit oml next.
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
It reported by God that the distance between Bhu Loka and Yama Puri is around 86 thousand katham. To reach this a soul takes around 1 year- by crossing the distance @ around 247 kadams by walking day and night. The pinda pradhanam done every day after death would cause the growth of the Pretha part by part. On the 10th day this pretha jeeva attains it full form.

While covering the distance as stated above, the jeeva has to undergo innumerable hardships like hunger, thirst, heat, cold,wilde animals etc. etc. There are many places this bootha jeeva has to cross. It travels to Yamiyam ( in 28 days) Avyamiyam (60 days) Chowri (90 days), Kruroora puram (150 days) Krouncham ( 180 days) Vaitharani river ( 100 Yojanas width) This is Yamas brother Vichithran’s place. ( oona masikam after 180 days before 210 days) Anna dhanam to be done at this period on behalf of the deceased person. Udhaka Kumba Dhanam also to be done to provide water to the departed soul. Pakkuapadam ( 240 days) Dhukkadham ( 270days) Nadhakkirandham (300days) Here the departed souls would be filtered whether Vrisha Uthkarshanam is done for the particular soul or not. Adabtham( 330 days) cheethabram ( cold place) (360 days) Vaivaswatha Pattinam ( oonam Abdhika Pindam) . Thus the bootha jeeva would be covering different places during the first year.
The above quote is from Garuda Purana which deals with this subject exhaustively.

http://tamilelibrary.org/sadhana/archives/108

Pitru Loka is a place where the ancestors are supposed to stay.

The pitrus.who live in pitru loka in the form of spirits, are fetched into the sradda venue by the vishvedevas or the universal soul.The darbha or kusa grass and til sesamum are two significant materials used in the performance of sradda.
http://www.subhakariam.com/pithrukarma.htm

How do you reconcile this with the concept of Moksha or attaining the Brahman?

These are Purva Mimansa concepts based on the Karma Kanda of the Vedas. These totally ignore Jnana Kanda.

Purva Mimansa does not believe the concept of a GOD who can change your karma phala. This is the basic concept of Bhakthi.

These ideas and practices resemble the Egyptian and other old religions which believed in ancestor worship.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Sri N-ji,

i shall ask the gurus and spirit-mediums abt the description from garuda purana.

the mentioning of a river seems somewhat common, also mentioned by OBE (Out of Body Experiences) cases in other cultures.

Sri Adi Shankara felt that those who endeavoured to live in brahman went to brahmaloka and those that endeavored with rituals went to pitruloka...monastic traditions do not follow any rituals. I had asked a question to Suvarchas based on this earlier (that if all brahmans are attaining moksha how come they are being born), but got no reply.

Somewhere along the way concepts have merged and evolved in the vast sanatana we see today.

Sri Ramachandra ji,

My only request to you is to not undermine the role of women. For every shastra you might quote, i might be able to quote and provide an opposite stance. Some families do observe thevasam for both, the deceased mother and the deceased father. I do not really understand why you think the father alone passes on his 'karma' to the child.

Regards.
 
Last edited:

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
Sri N-ji,

i shall ask the gurus and spirit-mediums abt the description from garuda purana.

the mentioning of a river seems somewhat common, also mentioned by OBE (Out of Body Experiences) cases in other cultures.

Sri Adi Shankara felt that those who endeavoured to live in brahman went to brahmaloka and those that endeavored with rituals went to pitruloka...monastic traditions do not follow any rituals. I had asked a question to Suvarchas based on this earlier (that if all brahmans are attaining moksha how come they are being born), but got no reply.

Somewhere along the way concepts have merged and evolved in the vast sanatana we see today.

Philosophical concepts do not merge. Just because we have six systems of philosophy that does not mean you believe in all the six systems simultaneously.

It is definitly a major contradiction when a person who is supposed to be a believer in Advaita does Shraddham.

Other religions also have major divisions. But you can not be a Protestent and a Catholic simultaneously. This is what many Hindus are trying to do. These will be questioned (are being questioned) by the younger generation.

BTW all these are concepts from the Puranas and has nothing to do with the Vedas.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Philosophical concepts do not merge. Just because we have six systems of philosophy that does not mean you believe in all the six systems simultaneously.

It is definitly a major contradiction when a person who is supposed to be a believer in Advaita does Shraddham.

Sir,

Is it possible that concepts have merged so that a grihasta man can offer oblations to the ancestors as well as follow advaitha? (it does seem there is a bit of contradiction in the lokas described though - does such a man attain brahmaloka or pitruloka). Can this be resolved by vedic literature?
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

I kind of thought that Shraddham is part of the Purva Mimmamsa, Karma Kanda of the Yajur Veda. I am absolutely blown away by your statement.

What is then should be practiced in terms of reciting mantras if you follow advaitha? I am asking because I wondered about the comingling of Purva Mimamsa with the philosophy expounded by Sri Shankara, thinking that He integrated the practices of Purva Mimamsa in to what he prescribed.

Please let me know if I am wrong.

Regards,
KRS

It is definitly a major contradiction when a person who is supposed to be a believer in Advaita does Shraddham.

BTW all these are concepts from the Puranas and has nothing to do with the Vedas.
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Badrayana and Jaimini were contemporaries and quoted each other in each other's works.

Badrayana's Brahmasutra emphasized that rituals do not lead the soul to brahman (example: athaeva..peksha or sanyasis do not need to light fire), and brahman according to Badrayan is attained by the likes of the upanishadic stance of 'going up that nerve'.

Jaimini's Dharmasutra (aka purvamimansa sutras / karmasutra) emphasized rituals and overrided the jnanakanda. It does not really seem like believing in god or moksha. According to Jaimini's purva mimansa school, a man following all his rituals is saved from all falsehood.

Sri Sankara felt that rituals took a man to pitruloka from where there is rebirth. And the path of brahman took a man to brahmaloka from where there is no rebirth. However, hinduism that emphasises on avahaniyam rituals is currently called brahmanism.

Since the current brahmanism is about following dharmasutras or karmasutras not brahmasutra, perhaps they are karmin or dharmin (rather than brahmin) (though i dunno if there is any such word as karmin or dharmin). Karma or dharma to some actually means the path of rituals, and does not really mean attainment of brahman (though in later times it came to be said (by who don't know) that the path of karmasutra or dharmasutras result in attainment of brahman).

Plus, the current brahmin is also supposed to be follower of advaitha. Sri Shankara did not seem to mix advaitha with purva mimansa (He clearly rejected rituals in his bhasyam of brahmasutra). No one knows how this merger came about.

This was one reason i had asked Suvarchas earlier (that if 'brahmins' are attaining moksha how come they are being born, unless they are conceptualized as going to pitruloka from where there is rebirth, not brahmaloka - and also since they are following karmasutra, not brahmasutra)..am still awaiting the answer.
 
Last edited:

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

I kind of thought that Shraddham is part of the Purva Mimmamsa, Karma Kanda of the Yajur Veda. I am absolutely blown away by your statement.

What is then should be practiced in terms of reciting mantras if you follow advaitha? I am asking because I wondered about the comingling of Purva Mimamsa with the philosophy expounded by Sri Shankara, thinking that He integrated the practices of Purva Mimamsa in to what he prescribed.

Please let me know if I am wrong.

Regards,
KRS
I had written about this in the thread on Smarta religion. Smartas and also all the Brahmins in India including SriVaishnavas are basically Purva Mimansa followers. The Smiritis basically follow Purva Mimansa.

How do we reconcile this? The stock answer is that all Hindus are supposed to follow the Karma Marga which is basically the Nithyanushtana and other Karmas prescribed in the Smiritis.

When you have advanced enough in the spiritual line to follow the Jnana ( Advaita) marga, then you may give up some of the samskaras. But even then Nithyanushtana Karma is necessary. Since they do not accept that any one other than the Maharishis of old are advanced enough to follow Janana Marga, it means only Karma marga ( Purva Mimansa). Even Sannyasis are supposed to follow the Nithyanushtana Karma.

Ramanujacharya propounded Bhakthi concept. We might think that if you follow Bhakthi Marga, then rituals are not necessary. It is not so. You are supposed to follow Karma Marga ( Purva Mimansa) then go on to Jnana Marga. Only after that you can take up the Bhakthi Marga. So Sri Vaishnavas have their own Nithyanushtana and other Karmas prescribed in the Smiritis.

Even Bagavad Gita is interpreted this way.

In fact Garuda Purana which is often quoted in Shraddham rituals is a Vaishnavite Purana which promotes Vishnu as the supreme God.

Did Ramana Maharishi recommend performing Shraddham? Do you know?
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Even Sannyasis are supposed to follow the Nithyanushtana Karma.

Sir,

Am told that all ekadandi sampradayas do not follow the nithya karmas but almost all tridandi sampradayas follow the nithya karmas.

Very few ekadandi sampradayas keep the sacred thread on, after accepting sanyasam, but almost all tridandi sanyasis keep the sacred thread on (was told there are some tridandi traditions in nepal that do not keep the sacred thread on). So i suppose it varies from one tradition to the other, place to place, etc....the internal details, of these traditions however are not so forthcoming or available for reading thru :(
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

Is there a passage in Gita or elsewhere in our Srutis where it says that one has to first follow the Karma Yoga (even though we are talking about a Karma that was defined so far back)? I know of this requirement for a long time and all the Gurus associated with my friends also advise along this line.

No, I have not found anything that the Maharishi said about this. May be I have missed something.

Regards,
KRS

I had written about this in the thread on Smarta religion. Smartas and also all the Brahmins in India including SriVaishnavas are basically Purva Mimansa followers. The Smiritis basically follow Purva Mimansa.

How do we reconcile this? The stock answer is that all Hindus are supposed to follow the Karma Marga which is basically the Nithyanushtana and other Karmas prescribed in the Smiritis.

When you have advanced enough in the spiritual line to follow the Jnana ( Advaita) marga, then you may give up some of the samskaras. But even then Nithyanushtana Karma is necessary. Since they do not accept that any one other than the Maharishis of old are advanced enough to follow Janana Marga, it means only Karma marga ( Purva Mimansa). Even Sannyasis are supposed to follow the Nithyanushtana Karma.

Ramanujacharya propounded Bhakthi concept. We might think that if you follow Bhakthi Marga, then rituals are not necessary. It is not so. You are supposed to follow Karma Marga ( Purva Mimansa) then go on to Jnana Marga. Only after that you can take up the Bhakthi Marga. So Sri Vaishnavas have their own Nithyanushtana and other Karmas prescribed in the Smiritis.

Even Bagavad Gita is interpreted this way.

In fact Garuda Purana which is often quoted in Shraddham rituals is a Vaishnavite Purana which promotes Vishnu as the supreme God.

Did Ramana Maharishi recommend performing Shraddham? Do you know?
 

Nacchinarkiniyan

Well-known member
Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

Is there a passage in Gita or elsewhere in our Srutis where it says that one has to first follow the Karma Yoga (even though we are talking about a Karma that was defined so far back)? I know of this requirement for a long time and all the Gurus associated with my friends also advise along this line.

No, I have not found anything that the Maharishi said about this. May be I have missed something.

Regards,
KRS

Gita is interpreted by different schools in different ways. I heard an Acharya on TV whose splitting of the words and interpretations defy logic.

sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah


Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

Bhagavat Gita - 18:66

There are some people who interpret the Gayatri Mantra to represent Krishna and Radha. Others who interpret it to represent Brahman. Only Sandhyavandhanam is required to realize Brahman according to some.

The survival of the Brahmins as a community depended on Karma Yoga. If the rituals of Purva Mimansa are abolished how will the Purohits survive? The entire caste system depended on Dharmasasthra which is based on Karma Kanda viz. Karma Yoga.

I do not think Maharishi said anything about this. His path of pure Advaita depends only on individual effort and not on performance of rituals by others on your behalf.

Pure Bhakthi is also independent of rituals.

Advaita and Bhakthi are both independent of rituals. But they brought in a lot of new interpretations to emphasize rituals.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top
Thank you for visiting TamilBrahmins.com

You seem to have an Ad Blocker on.

We depend on advertising to keep our content free for you. Please consider whitelisting us in your ad blocker so that we can continue to provide the content you have come here to enjoy.

Alternatively, consider upgrading your account to enjoy an ad-free experience along with numerous other benefits. To upgrade your account, please visit the account upgrades page

You can also donate financially if you can. Please Click Here on how you can do that.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks