Greetings to Tamil Brahmin forum members. I just discovered this website. I have a nagging question counter to the Spritual question of Ramana Maharishi's (Who Am I?), a more mundane question of Who Am I? or more so What Am I? To elaborate, I was born a Tamil Iyer in Bangalore, spend a few years of my childhood in Tiruvarrur in TN, and the rest in Bangalore & US. I can read, write, and speak Kannada and , and speak and understand Tamil spoken in my family which is quite different from the Tamil spoken in Chennai. My Kannada friends despise me for being a Tamilian, and Tamil friends resent me for being a Kannadiga. How do I manage this situtaion? Any other forum members in this deliemma, please explain. Thanks, Vajra
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Who Am I?
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Fehu
Guest
Hi Mr.Vajra
You are asking very good questions about Tamil brahmins and the very facet of their fundamental existence. It is a genuine outcey.
Tamil brahmins in Tamil nadu are perceiving themselves as oppressed.Many brahmins who think Dhyana and Bakthi and sampradaya or traditional rituals as important are lost in this forum discussing the nuances of pabulum for the mind rather than focussing awareness on practical aspects of existence as Tamil brahmins.
I have been studying this aspect for long.
1.This is because Tamil brahmins don't speak the Tamil spoken by the local non-brahmins.Their accentuation and words used are slightly different from those used by the majority.
2.Further cinema tamil is another variety. It is a mixture of "hackney" Tamil to attract the cinema goers and here also majority are non-brahmins.
3.Further brahmin baiting has a pastime for those who are in the Govt after the movement of Periyar.
4.This gives them edge over the meritocracy preached by brahmins. Brahmins don't get proper clerical appointments in Tamil Nadu.Perhaps nowadays with the rise of the private sector things may change.
5.Dharma, Artha and Kama are necessary for life. Artha wise Tamil brahmins are not on the top.Regarding Dharma they are still discovering. Kama and libido is god given and they practise wherever possible.
I will elaborate further after hearing from you through this forum
Fehu
http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2088.html
Also google "oppressed brahmins" and the interact with me through this forum
You are asking very good questions about Tamil brahmins and the very facet of their fundamental existence. It is a genuine outcey.
Tamil brahmins in Tamil nadu are perceiving themselves as oppressed.Many brahmins who think Dhyana and Bakthi and sampradaya or traditional rituals as important are lost in this forum discussing the nuances of pabulum for the mind rather than focussing awareness on practical aspects of existence as Tamil brahmins.
I have been studying this aspect for long.
1.This is because Tamil brahmins don't speak the Tamil spoken by the local non-brahmins.Their accentuation and words used are slightly different from those used by the majority.
2.Further cinema tamil is another variety. It is a mixture of "hackney" Tamil to attract the cinema goers and here also majority are non-brahmins.
3.Further brahmin baiting has a pastime for those who are in the Govt after the movement of Periyar.
4.This gives them edge over the meritocracy preached by brahmins. Brahmins don't get proper clerical appointments in Tamil Nadu.Perhaps nowadays with the rise of the private sector things may change.
5.Dharma, Artha and Kama are necessary for life. Artha wise Tamil brahmins are not on the top.Regarding Dharma they are still discovering. Kama and libido is god given and they practise wherever possible.
I will elaborate further after hearing from you through this forum
Fehu
http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2088.html
Also google "oppressed brahmins" and the interact with me through this forum
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Hi Mr. Fehu: Your elaboration on travails of Tamil Brahmins in TN is very knowledgable. It does not answer my question though. How do I position myself being in Bangalore where, Tamilians are percieved differently, I need to see a discussion of Kannada-Tamil conflict( other than Cavery waters, more to do with personalities, character)etc. Tamilians are percieved as Fanatics. How do I fit in between Kannadigas and Tamilians I know. I have mentioned that I am both Kannadiga and Tamilian, but being accepted is difficult. Can we have a discussion on how Tamil Brahmins are perceived in Karnataka in particular. I am resented by my Kannadiga friends becoz of my academic achievements, and ignored by my Tamilian friends becoz I am perceived as a Karnataka. You see Tamil Brahmin has to now disown their language in order to survive every where, Tamil barhmin as a creed are hated in TN, and have to prove that they are not percieved as other Tamilians by others other than Tamilians. Can we have a discussion on the perception of being a Tamilian and then a Brahmin outside of TN. Thanks, Vajra
vijisesh
0
Dear Mr.Vajra,
Having gone thru your situation , explained above could you please elaborate a bit further or conduct a self analysis , as to under what circumstances , do the tamilians and kannadigas , not accept you ? If it is only the language that matters and if you decide that Re-location to a third region is not in your agenda , then i advise you to watch many tamil movies and learn the tamil slang , machi or
Bega kannada kalthkolri , yejamanrey !
Having gone thru your situation , explained above could you please elaborate a bit further or conduct a self analysis , as to under what circumstances , do the tamilians and kannadigas , not accept you ? If it is only the language that matters and if you decide that Re-location to a third region is not in your agenda , then i advise you to watch many tamil movies and learn the tamil slang , machi or
Bega kannada kalthkolri , yejamanrey !
navy-eswaran
Active member
dear friends,
being a TAMIL it is very hard to explain to others while we are living in north or some other state. how can you explain when they ask why do we worship ravana and abuse ram??in fact none of the tamils worship ravana but the fanatics(in TN) project that image allover the world thru their leftist media support.
the state of TN is endowed with multiple variants of TAMIL(madurai/kongu/t'veli&madras) also brahamana tamiz. so there is nothing to be ashamed of if you speak br.tamil. pl do not emulate suntv tamill.
wherever you are residing we have to respect their culture and be supportive to their interest.
regards
eswaran
being a TAMIL it is very hard to explain to others while we are living in north or some other state. how can you explain when they ask why do we worship ravana and abuse ram??in fact none of the tamils worship ravana but the fanatics(in TN) project that image allover the world thru their leftist media support.
the state of TN is endowed with multiple variants of TAMIL(madurai/kongu/t'veli&madras) also brahamana tamiz. so there is nothing to be ashamed of if you speak br.tamil. pl do not emulate suntv tamill.
wherever you are residing we have to respect their culture and be supportive to their interest.
regards
eswaran
vijisesh
0
Dear Mr.Easwaran,
I agree that our brahmin culture need not be lost , what so ever remains needs to be transferred to our generation next ! But the issue on hand is on getting along with other friends - when they make fun of the slang , it hurts as Mr vajra has explained !
For instance , people working in the gulf area need to learn urdu / little arabic for survival and for getting the jobs done by the people from diverse regions .
So when the necessity comes , there's nothing wrong in learning the native language , to the extent possible ! right !
I agree that our brahmin culture need not be lost , what so ever remains needs to be transferred to our generation next ! But the issue on hand is on getting along with other friends - when they make fun of the slang , it hurts as Mr vajra has explained !
For instance , people working in the gulf area need to learn urdu / little arabic for survival and for getting the jobs done by the people from diverse regions .
So when the necessity comes , there's nothing wrong in learning the native language , to the extent possible ! right !
Brahmanyan
Active member
Who Am I
Dear Mr.Vijisesh,
It is really an intereting topic introduced by our new member "Vajra". I am a "Kongu-Tamil" living in Karnataka for the past 42 years. In between I had a short service of Eight years in a Gulf Country. Even my Brahmin Tamil is not that good, neither I learnt Kannda well, ( nor Arabic or Urdu/Hindi). All my neighbours here are Kannadigas. I have found no difficulty in my interaction with local people in my office or outside at all. All the people were good to me where ever I lived. But I try to converse with local people in their language intermixed with Tamil and English words. Every one understand the sincerity of my attempt to converse in their language and forgive all other deficiencies.
It is my staunch belief that most of the people around us are good and understanding. But on our part we should try to learn the language of the Region and never have hatred towards any language.
Regards,
Brahmanyan.
Dear Mr.Vijisesh,
It is really an intereting topic introduced by our new member "Vajra". I am a "Kongu-Tamil" living in Karnataka for the past 42 years. In between I had a short service of Eight years in a Gulf Country. Even my Brahmin Tamil is not that good, neither I learnt Kannda well, ( nor Arabic or Urdu/Hindi). All my neighbours here are Kannadigas. I have found no difficulty in my interaction with local people in my office or outside at all. All the people were good to me where ever I lived. But I try to converse with local people in their language intermixed with Tamil and English words. Every one understand the sincerity of my attempt to converse in their language and forgive all other deficiencies.
It is my staunch belief that most of the people around us are good and understanding. But on our part we should try to learn the language of the Region and never have hatred towards any language.
Regards,
Brahmanyan.
vijisesh
0
Exactly Sri Brahmanyan ji,
Namaskara , volley mathu helidhira !
As some great person mentioned , you will gain more proximity towards your staff / colleagues if you address them by their names , but this works even better if you pick up some portions of their language and put in use .
At least i get my job done speaking a little of whatever i know of many languages and this habit shall definitely fetch more friends than foe's provided one use's the apt word's.
During college times , more often we used to be well versed of the Slang and bad words first in any language to " get to know " if some one is mocking at you !
And knowing more languages will definitely put one in a comfort zone and feel at home wherever , he lives in .. A Small world !!
And i suppose you agree with me that experience in the GULF will add value in one's life , will teach the true concept of moving with people of so many diverse nationalities understanding their ways of living , being in co-existence with them and so much more can be gained practically , theory of which are in the shastra's !
Namaskara , volley mathu helidhira !
As some great person mentioned , you will gain more proximity towards your staff / colleagues if you address them by their names , but this works even better if you pick up some portions of their language and put in use .
At least i get my job done speaking a little of whatever i know of many languages and this habit shall definitely fetch more friends than foe's provided one use's the apt word's.
During college times , more often we used to be well versed of the Slang and bad words first in any language to " get to know " if some one is mocking at you !
And knowing more languages will definitely put one in a comfort zone and feel at home wherever , he lives in .. A Small world !!
And i suppose you agree with me that experience in the GULF will add value in one's life , will teach the true concept of moving with people of so many diverse nationalities understanding their ways of living , being in co-existence with them and so much more can be gained practically , theory of which are in the shastra's !
N.R.Ranganathan
Active member
who am I ?
Dear Mr. Vajra,
At first I thought you are initiating a philosophical thought for discussion,
following Bhagawan Ramana's teachings !.
I have also lived in many parts of the country and of the world, but I have
not encountered any such animosity. Your experience is perhaps due to the
bad blood generated by the politicians over sharing of the cauvery waters,
rights of the riparian states, screening of cinema and those sort of
things. We always hear of some clashes between the Tamils and kannadigas
near Ulsoor and other peripheral areas. This is mainly politics and has nothing
to do with the people of Karnataka.
Dear Mr. Vajra,
At first I thought you are initiating a philosophical thought for discussion,
following Bhagawan Ramana's teachings !.
I have also lived in many parts of the country and of the world, but I have
not encountered any such animosity. Your experience is perhaps due to the
bad blood generated by the politicians over sharing of the cauvery waters,
rights of the riparian states, screening of cinema and those sort of
things. We always hear of some clashes between the Tamils and kannadigas
near Ulsoor and other peripheral areas. This is mainly politics and has nothing
to do with the people of Karnataka.
F
Fehu
Guest
All seniors and Mr.Vajra,
Now you would have realized that there is no solution to this as external factors beyond your control have created this identity crisis as you see it partially.Tamil Iyers are not an ill treated community anywhere.As a person who has lived all over India and US as well as Africa I tell you the Tamil identity is creating the trouble. Although you feel more towards Tamils as the Irish Americans' sympathy towards Ireland,you perceive that tantamount recognition is not there to the extent there is at least "Sadhbavana".
All Tamils have a fissiparous past.Tamil Nadu and Tamils of the Vaisya or business type and worker class moved to Fiji and South East Asia and Srilanka in large numbers. Here in Tamil Nadu local Tamils including some brahmins took up Tamil language and Tamil music and songs to very high pedestal still they cannot see innovative creative heights of civilization.This is my view. Simply praising the past not extrapolating the future in unity has created all this.In Africa in even in small countires I see clubs or associations of Malayalees and Andhra brothers and even Gujjus in large numbers.But Tamil Sangams are very few. I was a member of other clubs with ease. Many people of Tamil origin have contributed to Kannada culture and similarly to Andhra and Kerala. Those are mostly brahmins.Similarly Thyagarja and others of the "Punjavridhhi" ilk could live in their memes of seeking God Rama or Krishna. If you want total acceptability it is beyond question because of developing circumstances. Our political pundits have last all statesman character and all administrative bureaucracy has become a island of similar mind-set. this is a reality.To come out of this you require self analysis and self enclosure lead a life with high internal locus with an alert style preached by Thirumoolar ie "thungamal thungum kalai".
In the earlier post you saw a Kanadiga Tamil jumping with remarks in Kanadiga when a person declared that he remained 42 years in Karnataka. such is the spirit of Tamil brahmins who try to cling on to other identities eschewing Tamil identity because of their perception of oppression as a layer in their hearts. you will have to live like that unless you make a path-breaking celebrity accepted for you special characteristic other than being Tamil.
I will elongate this further after hearing from you and the senior Lawyer Mr.N.R.Ranganathan and others
Fehu
Now you would have realized that there is no solution to this as external factors beyond your control have created this identity crisis as you see it partially.Tamil Iyers are not an ill treated community anywhere.As a person who has lived all over India and US as well as Africa I tell you the Tamil identity is creating the trouble. Although you feel more towards Tamils as the Irish Americans' sympathy towards Ireland,you perceive that tantamount recognition is not there to the extent there is at least "Sadhbavana".
All Tamils have a fissiparous past.Tamil Nadu and Tamils of the Vaisya or business type and worker class moved to Fiji and South East Asia and Srilanka in large numbers. Here in Tamil Nadu local Tamils including some brahmins took up Tamil language and Tamil music and songs to very high pedestal still they cannot see innovative creative heights of civilization.This is my view. Simply praising the past not extrapolating the future in unity has created all this.In Africa in even in small countires I see clubs or associations of Malayalees and Andhra brothers and even Gujjus in large numbers.But Tamil Sangams are very few. I was a member of other clubs with ease. Many people of Tamil origin have contributed to Kannada culture and similarly to Andhra and Kerala. Those are mostly brahmins.Similarly Thyagarja and others of the "Punjavridhhi" ilk could live in their memes of seeking God Rama or Krishna. If you want total acceptability it is beyond question because of developing circumstances. Our political pundits have last all statesman character and all administrative bureaucracy has become a island of similar mind-set. this is a reality.To come out of this you require self analysis and self enclosure lead a life with high internal locus with an alert style preached by Thirumoolar ie "thungamal thungum kalai".
In the earlier post you saw a Kanadiga Tamil jumping with remarks in Kanadiga when a person declared that he remained 42 years in Karnataka. such is the spirit of Tamil brahmins who try to cling on to other identities eschewing Tamil identity because of their perception of oppression as a layer in their hearts. you will have to live like that unless you make a path-breaking celebrity accepted for you special characteristic other than being Tamil.
I will elongate this further after hearing from you and the senior Lawyer Mr.N.R.Ranganathan and others
Fehu
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F
Fehu
Guest
Relocation is not a solution but cultural change is a solution.
F
Fehu
Guest
Vajra pl see this blog with all comments
http://realitycheck.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/another-statue-story/
http://realitycheck.wordpress.com/2006/12/09/another-statue-story/
i m doubted why all everyone keep on discussing about existence & pride of brahmins,cinema dialogues......instead we spend time on discissionds that enriches our spritual thoughts,way of ethical life....ther are lot for discussion...ofcourse i dont say anything about discussion on these issues but we have spread our wings to other topics too
vijisesh
0
Good idea !
Welcome Ms.Karthika,
Some good threads dealing with spiritualism are available in the religion folder for review.
For that matter, you can start a thread by your own on the topic of your interest for discussion , if you like !
I feel , Many more participants can come ahead and contribute freely with diverse topics ,which could be worthwhile and helpful !
Welcome Ms.Karthika,
Some good threads dealing with spiritualism are available in the religion folder for review.
For that matter, you can start a thread by your own on the topic of your interest for discussion , if you like !
I feel , Many more participants can come ahead and contribute freely with diverse topics ,which could be worthwhile and helpful !
H
hariharan1972
Guest
There have been so many replies since Mr Vajra came up with his poser, let me also chip in given my unique positioning.
I am neither a Tamilian nor a Kannadiga ; grew in TN, live in Karnataka.
So my positioning is unique, so are my perspectives, atleast thats what i think.
Running the risk of offending members here, which i dont really intend, it is my considered view that Tamilians consider themselves eugenically superior, led ofcourse by the egregious kazhagams.
Any other language is treated with scant respect with the recalcitrant kazhagams at the helm of affairs for the last 2 decades.
I also hasten to add that per se tamil is indeed a very very rich language with a heritage second to none. Where the pro-tamil groups err is in indulging in slander against other languages with hindi being the enemy no. 1.
The hatred against a language slowly morphed into hatred against the community.
Personally speaking, i was fortunate i have a solid founding in tamil (quite immodestly i have to say that i write 'what-i-like-to-call-as-poems' in tamil), so i didnt have to put up with too much for being a non-tamilian.
Sadly in due course, other southern states which are/were always wary of TN, emulated TN in linguistic chavunism.
However as far as Karnataka goes, there is still hope. As other elder members of the forum pointed out, a kannadiga is easily placated, if he is convinced that you respect the language and make a sincere effort in learning it.
As far as your case goes Mr Vajra, i think you have to first establish which is 'supposed to be your mother tongue' and where you intend to settle down.
Depending on this, you should make efforts to learn tamil or kannada or both. Being ambidextrous would give you lot of benefits including / such as enjoying
'Vizhiyile mani vizhiyile'
'Jotheyali jothe jotheyali'
and most recently
'Jaane do naa'
all set to tune by the maestro Illaiyaraja.
I am neither a Tamilian nor a Kannadiga ; grew in TN, live in Karnataka.
So my positioning is unique, so are my perspectives, atleast thats what i think.
Running the risk of offending members here, which i dont really intend, it is my considered view that Tamilians consider themselves eugenically superior, led ofcourse by the egregious kazhagams.
Any other language is treated with scant respect with the recalcitrant kazhagams at the helm of affairs for the last 2 decades.
I also hasten to add that per se tamil is indeed a very very rich language with a heritage second to none. Where the pro-tamil groups err is in indulging in slander against other languages with hindi being the enemy no. 1.
The hatred against a language slowly morphed into hatred against the community.
Personally speaking, i was fortunate i have a solid founding in tamil (quite immodestly i have to say that i write 'what-i-like-to-call-as-poems' in tamil), so i didnt have to put up with too much for being a non-tamilian.
Sadly in due course, other southern states which are/were always wary of TN, emulated TN in linguistic chavunism.
However as far as Karnataka goes, there is still hope. As other elder members of the forum pointed out, a kannadiga is easily placated, if he is convinced that you respect the language and make a sincere effort in learning it.
As far as your case goes Mr Vajra, i think you have to first establish which is 'supposed to be your mother tongue' and where you intend to settle down.
Depending on this, you should make efforts to learn tamil or kannada or both. Being ambidextrous would give you lot of benefits including / such as enjoying
'Vizhiyile mani vizhiyile'
'Jotheyali jothe jotheyali'
and most recently
'Jaane do naa'
all set to tune by the maestro Illaiyaraja.
Dear Sri Vajra Ji,
Please understand that any 'friend' who 'despises' you for who you are is no friend at all. And any friend who does not appreciate that by living in a 'foreign' place you have adapted and changed is not a friend either.
Having lived in various locations and among different cultures/languages, I can offer you one simple rule. ADAPT to succeed wherever you are. Make the best of any 'foreign' culture your own, discarding the bad (those that do not suit your values). At the end, you would have surely changed for the better, without even trying.
We tend to think that anything 'foreign' is bad. This is not so. We can always and should learn from everything around us that presents with a fresh new perspectives about life.
Hope this helps.
Pranams,
KRS
Please understand that any 'friend' who 'despises' you for who you are is no friend at all. And any friend who does not appreciate that by living in a 'foreign' place you have adapted and changed is not a friend either.
Having lived in various locations and among different cultures/languages, I can offer you one simple rule. ADAPT to succeed wherever you are. Make the best of any 'foreign' culture your own, discarding the bad (those that do not suit your values). At the end, you would have surely changed for the better, without even trying.
We tend to think that anything 'foreign' is bad. This is not so. We can always and should learn from everything around us that presents with a fresh new perspectives about life.
Hope this helps.
Pranams,
KRS
navy-eswaran
Active member
dear sir,
my reading on the issue is that
1 if one is clear about intentions the other party will respect our views.
2 we should not only appreciate alternate views but also convey it to the opposite party.
further
any language which is exclusive in nature will fade away(eg: sanskrit)
the opposite is english and hindi which adopt alien words and are evolving continuously. where as other linguistic groups spend their energy and time in inventing new words for easily adoptable words.
english eg
jungle,catamaran tec
hindi
bus(for isbt= antar rashtriya bus adda)
school
master
phool(fm urdu)
many urdu words
sanskrit words(innumerable)
ps yesterday a student from a poor family educated in tamil committed suicide as he could not cope with the english in BE. such things should never happen to any one in the world.
regards
eswaran
my reading on the issue is that
1 if one is clear about intentions the other party will respect our views.
2 we should not only appreciate alternate views but also convey it to the opposite party.
further
any language which is exclusive in nature will fade away(eg: sanskrit)
the opposite is english and hindi which adopt alien words and are evolving continuously. where as other linguistic groups spend their energy and time in inventing new words for easily adoptable words.
english eg
jungle,catamaran tec
hindi
bus(for isbt= antar rashtriya bus adda)
school
master
phool(fm urdu)
many urdu words
sanskrit words(innumerable)
ps yesterday a student from a poor family educated in tamil committed suicide as he could not cope with the english in BE. such things should never happen to any one in the world.
regards
eswaran
N.R.Ranganathan
Active member
Who am I ?
Dear sri Vajra,
You have received some practical tips from our respected friends which
might enable you to adopt yourself successfully. We have some good
friends in this forum, and I do hope you will gain much from this Forum.
And Mr.Fehu. I am not a senior lawyer ; neither have I an intelligent head
to understand what you mean to convey . Sorry.
Dear sri Vajra,
You have received some practical tips from our respected friends which
might enable you to adopt yourself successfully. We have some good
friends in this forum, and I do hope you will gain much from this Forum.
And Mr.Fehu. I am not a senior lawyer ; neither have I an intelligent head
to understand what you mean to convey . Sorry.
- Status
