What does a lord ask a devotee?

[r_lakshminarasimhan]

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I am sure many of you will accept that lord(any god) will accept sincere prayers, people who surrender with good heart & actions.When this is true why are the Hindu temples spending more money towards pooja's like 100 ltr milk abishekam, gold & diamond ornaments.
I am not against it, yes we should praise & do nitya anushtana Pooja,Thirumanjanam etc., but to what extend..
?
I am sure if the temple authorities spend few percentage of the amount in the development of the near by society along with the local bodies, that will help.Though i am not a follower of Sri Satya saibaba, his remarkable work on the river project was appreciated by many villages.

Temple authorities can consider conducting many more sessions than what they do currently on the teachings of the Geetha , Ramayan & other ethihasa purana's in simple terms to benefit different sects of people.Simpler the approach without dilution of the content, better the take away for thecommon man.If someone can do something about it,it is great!

 

[prasad1]

Does Lord ask anything?

 

[Govinda]

Temple authorities can consider conducting many more sessions than what they do currently on the teachings of the Geetha , Ramayan & other ethihasa purana's in simple terms to benefit different sects of people.Simpler the approach without dilution of the content, better the take away for thecommon man.If someone can do something about it,it is great!

Initially, temples were built or formed due to real bhakti. Overtime, when they become famous (obviously, with increased population], more donations flow in, which inturn results in charity organizations linked to the temple [like that of TTD]. For the grants/legal processes, the temple authorities have to rely on politicians/business-magnets. So, it is expected that those external/higher authorities have control over those temples. As long as people benefit from those charity orgs [colleges/univ/disabled-schools/marriages etc], we shouldn't dwell more on the politics.

But , on the public side, these temples focus on the religious activities. Even, general public have less attention to spirituality, thus those ritualistic worship/poojas etc. [esp. result oriented, for the grant of boons] come easy for them.
Most of the modern generations have ADHD [Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder] . Why else even the general public/people are interested in accumulating wealth, ornaments for their grand and great-grand-children, when their own kids would send them to old-age-homes? People are focussed on greed, attachments, these people cannot listen, pay attention to any subtle messages of spirituality.

In life, we encounter happiness and sufferings which are like passing clouds, but we are set on some goals on our duties, like settle our kids in their life. Every parent should realize that after all that 'fury and sound', they would become indiviudals again and should have helped one's own 'Self' to be free from repeated bondage. If they don't adopt spirituality and train themselves ahead of the future, they feel isolated, disbled, depressed etc. and all that past-glory (money, career, kids etc.) won't help them.

I agree, these temple orgs.(plus the learned scholars, but real practitioners, not anandas or babas) should focus on spiritual discourses, feeding the minds and the souls, on the knowledge of self and permanent reality, rather than memory based rituals/slokas/flawed-quotes, and the latter ones/worship should be the product of one's one diligence/sincerity & understanding.

 

[mahakavi]

To my mind, bhakthi is a one-on-one relationship between the devotee and god. But in the Hindu temples in India (and also in foreign lands) there is always somebody (the priest) in between when it comes to idol worship. A few people have pUjA rooms in their house and do the rituals at home. But a vast majority of folks who do not know the mantras and slokhas to recite for themselves, go to the temples and get archanas, abhishekhams etc., done. They feel god will listen to their prayers only then. The gurukkaL/bhaTTar also asks your name, gothram, and family names to relate to god as though god does not know these. The devotees believe the gurukkaL/bhaTtar is a proper intermediary to present their problems to god.

People's problems have to be solved only by themselves. God does not interfere there (except to modulate the effects of proper karma, in my opinion). However the devotee believes "kaDavuL mEl bhArattaip pOTTu viDuvOm", and He will take care. It gives them a relief from the pressure that built up. If the problems get solved in normal course they think it is god's grace. If they don't get solved they move on saying "it is all my past karma".

Now coming to wasting milk on abhishekham, or providing god with expensive ornaments, it has become the custom with people of means. They feel a satisfaction if thousand gallons of milk is poured on the idol and then dressed up with nice clothing and ornaments. Yes, there is an argument as to why not use the money (instead of ornaments) to spend on poor people. The standard answer is "we are already doing that". Can you do more? Does god want to feel rich? Not at all in my book.

 

[renuka]

What does the Lord ask a Devotee?

NOTHING!!

It's us humans who are desire filled and asking something or the other and try to impose the same thinking even on God.

 

[renuka]

The gurukkaL/bhaTTar also asks your name, gothram, and family names to relate to god as though god does not know these. The devotees believe the gurukkaL/bhaTtar is a proper intermediary to present their problems to god.

Dear Mahakavi ji,

I do not see any problem in a priest asking the name,gotra(if any) etc..
You see God knows everything but we humans still have to write an address on our envelope and post it..only then we feel satisfied that the letter has reached.

Once a Dean of the University in Puttaparthi was asked by Sathya Sai Baba about the attendance of students for the exam.
The dean replied "Baba You know everything...why are You even asking me?"

Baba replied "Yes I know but do you know?"

The dean apologized to Baba cos he was not aware of the attendance rate of the students for the exam.

The moral of the story is we humans need to get involved in what we do with some amount of Shraddha and Bhakti.
If we keep saying "God knows everything,God will handle it" etc we would turn out to be highly irresponsible.

So certain practices are just to instill discipline and nothing more.

 

[mahakavi]

>>You see God knows everything but we humans still have to write an address on our envelope and post it..only then we feel satisfied that the letter has reached.<<

Till now I believed that this was done only by children to mail letters to Santa Claus (at Christmas time) in North Pole where there is a post office set up to receive the letters mailed to Santa Claus. There is also a town called Santa Claus in Indiana in the US. Now if only I know the address of the lord I can also mail my letter with a mile long list of my demands and requests. I have amassed a whole bunch of them not knowing where to mail.

 

[mahakavi]

>>

The moral of the story is we humans need to get involved in what we do with some amount of Shraddha and Bhakti.
If we keep saying "God knows everything,God will handle it" etc we would turn out to be highly irresponsible.

So certain practices are just to instill discipline and nothing more.<<

So we are back to square one. If god does not know and solve our problems we don't need him. If he is unwilling and unable why bother him and pray? I am sure I will get a huge lecture for this type of questioning like "god helps those who help themselves". Sure, I have heard it all my life.​

 

[renuka]

Now if only I know the address of the lord I can also mail my letter with a mile long list of my demands and requests. I have amassed a whole bunch of them not knowing where to mail.

See wasn't I right??LOL

You said your long list of demands and requests from God.

So God is indeed a Santa Claus for most of us human barring a few saintly ones.
We want everything from Him but we complain when a pot of milk is used in an Abhishekam.

Do we complain when a farmers sows seeds of grains in the tilled land?

Those seeds grow and give us a bountiful harvest.

So is our action..every act of devotion yields a result for Jagat Hita(benefit of the world).

 

[renuka]

>>

The moral of the story is we humans need to get involved in what we do with some amount of Shraddha and Bhakti.
If we keep saying "God knows everything,God will handle it" etc we would turn out to be highly irresponsible.

So certain practices are just to instill discipline and nothing more.<<

So we are back to square one. If god does not know and solve our problems we don't need him. If he is unwilling and unable why bother him and pray? I am sure I will get a huge lecture for this type of questioning like "god helps those who help themselves". Sure, I have heard it all my life.​

If we treat God as a business transaction..then we can discard Him when you feel He is of no benefit to you.

In our day to day lives we all face some amount of trials and tribulations.
Why can't we adopt a thinking that every good or bad incident is the best suited for our spiritual realization and work on those lines of self improvement.

Some woman might cry 'Oh God why is my marriage failing and blame God for it"
We should think that may be marriage failed cos in this life God made us realize that everything is transient and move on without the need to blame God for every single disappointment in life.

To me I feel a society can only progress the day we STOP BLAMING God.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

In the words of sri Adi Sankara, ' what is that which God does not have but you
have ?. What can you give HIM. . All that you can do is to give your manas to HIM'
-Sri Sivananda lahari.

 

[sarang]

In our tradition, we can allot any role to god - king, beloved, wards or any form e fancy. We like giving gifts to those in authority, loved ones and friends, sometimes with expectations of a returned favour and sometimes just for our pleasure. Abhishekam and archanai are for our satisfaction and 'his'. Atmavichara is for intellectuals; for the lesser mortals, it is faith, bhakti and rituals; till they feel अहं निर्भरः

In the past wealth accumulated by famous temples was looted away by the (?) invaders; today, by the government. Anyway, accumulated wealth will always fall in the wrong hands.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

God never asks us for anything!
What is there that HE does not have
but we have and
that we have to give HIM?
Total surrender will free man of all his unnecessary worries.
If we have something which can be offered to God,
it can only be our mischievous troublesome MIND!
That is the ONLY thing God does not possess
but we all have, one/more for each of us, for sure.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

:welcome: back to the Forum sir!

How strange! I replied to a post in page 1

and while checking my own post saw your post

which is almost identical!!!

I did not know that the idea is in Sivanandalahari though.

I have learned only Soundharyalahari.

In the words of sri Adi Sankara, ' what is that which God does not have but you
have ?. What can you give HIM. . All that you can do is to give your manas to HIM'
-Sri Sivananda lahari.

 

[r_lakshminarasimhan]

I just wanted to add this line from the book "the choice is yours"..where the author says god is only a catalyst.The god doesnot differentiate even good & bad wishes..
it was intresting to read such explanations...where the author talks on how one is self responsible for his/her own life...

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Post 1 & 15:

Welcome. Please continue writing on this subject and share with us what you come to know. Quite interesting.



Post 11:

Welcome back, NRR sir. Please continue to contribute regularly. We miss you.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Yes it seems we get what we ask for!
So we should be wise enough to choose what we really want to have.

I just wanted to add this line from the book "the choice is yours"..where the author says god is only a catalyst.The god doesnot differentiate even good & bad wishes..
it was intresting to read such explanations...where the author talks on how one is self responsible for his/her own life...

 

[mahakavi]

I am not advocating blaming god for our failures. By the same token should we also take the credit for ourselves when we succeed instead of saying it is god who facilitated them? God believes in the policy, I am convinced, of Polonian maxim "neither a borrower nor a lender be".

>>If we treat God as a business transaction..then we can discard Him when you feel He is of no benefit to you.<<

For god's sake let us face reality here. How many people go to the temples just purely out of love for the lord ( காதலாகிக் கசிந்து கண்ணீர் மல்கி) ---not even thinking about a request buried in the depth of their minds? Those are few and far between if we want to be honest to ourselves. So there is a business transaction involved. The famous late novelist Kalki used to write "Percentage transaction in prayers". Although it had a tinge of humor it was real. I am sure this discussion will go in cycles interminably.

 

[sudeshwer]

one should have faith on HIM; total faith; surrender; only then you can understand HIM. in Tamil Nadu temples are huge. there are three or four pragarams. my grandfather used to explain to me that when on enters any temple, he should go around all the pragarams so that by the time one reaches garbagraham, his mind is completely engrossed with HIM. one has to prepare to get HIM. I am just giving below what the Great Bhagawad Gita says:

THE BHAGAWAD GITA SIMPLIFIED

Why do you worry without cause?
Whom do you fear without reason?
Who can kill you?
The soul is neither born, nor does it die.

Whatever happened,happened for the good;
whatever is happening,is happening for the good;
whatever will happen,will also happen for the good only.

You need not have any regrets for the past.
You need not worry for the future.
The present is happening...

What did you lose that you cry about?
What did you bring with you,which you think you have lost?
What did you produce,which you think got destroyed?

You did not bring anything,whatever you have, you received from here.
Whatever you have given, you have given only here.

Whatever you took, you took from God.
Whatever you gave, you gave to Him.
You came empty handed,
you will leave empty handed.

What is yours today, belonged to someone else yesterday, and will belong to someone else the
day after tomorrow.
You are mistakenly enjoying the thought that this is yours.


It is this false happiness that is the cause of your sorrows.

Change is the law of the universe.
What you think of as death,is indeed life.


In one instance you can be a millionaire, and
in the other instance you can be steeped in poverty.

Yours and mine, big & small erase these ideas from your mind.

Then everything is yours and you belong to everyone.
This body is not yours,neither are you of the body.

The body is made of fire, water, air, earth and
ether, and will disappear into these elements.
But the soul is permanent -so who are you?

Dedicate your being to God.
He is the one to be ultimately relied upon.
Those who know of his support are forever
free from fear, worry and sorrow.

Whatever you do, do it as a dedication to God.
This will bring you the tremendous experience of
joy and life-freedom forever.

(Compiled)

 

[mahakavi]

Mr. Sudeshwer:
The teachings are all fine and meant well to ease the pangs of pain in those who seek support. They say "faith moves mountains" and it could very well be true. Once you amass inner strength in the belief that some external force will help you you yourself will be able to achieve your goal either by doing the right things or by not doing the wrong things. When despite such faith things do not happen then the escape clause is "karma". To me everything that involves others and the world around you happens randomly. You may only tweak slightly (a micro manipulation compared to a macro event).

Talking or listening to philosophy may be good for the soul. The common man is not even aware of the soul when he has to earn his daily bread. If there is a soul it has to be contained within the body. For that the body has to be preserved. To preserve the body one needs the wherewithal to get material goods---at least the basic needs. Without the body the soul has no meaning? Has anybody seen a soul? If they say "yes" they are bluffing because it is all conjecture and no concrete proof can be provided.

The Gita teachings are meant to assuage a troubled person to reinforce the conviction that what cannot be cured must be endured.


>>Why do you worry without cause?
Whom do you fear without reason?
Who can kill you?
The soul is neither born, nor does it die.<<

Some people may worry without cause but most worry because they incur some misery or lack what they need. Fear is natural to human beings. Anybody can kill anybody. Forget the soul. It has a flimsy existence outside the body which nobody has seen. To give an example: In carnatic music the lyrics and music are like body and soul. Even instrumental music follows certain lyrics. One without the other is not complete. Some people may claim music can be without lyrics just like the soul without the body. Only a few souls (pardon my pun) can recognize that soul. The majority of folks need them both (body and soul).

 

[renuka]

For god's sake let us face reality here. How many people go to the temples just purely out of love for the lord ( காதலாகிக் கசிந்து கண்ணீர் மல்கி) ---not even thinking about a request buried in the depth of their minds? Those are few and far between if we want to be honest to ourselves. So there is a business transaction involved. The famous late novelist Kalki used to write "Percentage transaction in prayers". Although it had a tinge of humor it was real. I am sure this discussion will go in cycles interminably.

Dear sir,

You know from where that ''ask God for this and that" sort of thinking comes about?

From parents themselves!

When I was a child I used to have a very simple form of prayer.
I used to salute the idol of God like a soldier and ask "Hello how are you?"

My mum used to tell me "what kind of prayer is this? Ask God to bless you in studies and life etc"
I used to tell my mum back"Everyone asks God for something but how many actually ask God how He is?He also needs love isnt it"

My mum was not to happy with my style of prayer.
My brothers listened to her and they used to have a long list of requests and used to be disappointed when things didn't go right.

But how many children have a mind of their own as not to be influenced by parents?
I hardly listened to my parents in most things(I would outwardly appear to agreeing with them but inwardly I would tell myself.."do what suits you right")

And now when I am a mother..I never influence my son in his mode of prayer.
I want him to find his own way to emote with God and he does it well by reciting his mantras and modifying all sorts of songs and composing even Rap music for bhajans.
But he is like me to a certain extent becos he wishes God Good morning upon waking and Good night before sleeping.

I want a child to have love for God just for the sake of God and NOT becos God will give this and will give that to us.

 

[mahakavi]

>>

I want a child to have love for God just for the sake of God and NOT becos God will give this and will give that to us.<<

Very funny. "Ask not and you will be given" will be the new paradigm.

There was a butcher and a baker living next door to each other. The baker was very pious, went to church every Sunday, donated to charitable causes, said his daily prayers before eating food and before going to bed, and yet he was dirt poor. The butcher on the other hand never went to church, never donated a penny to charity, but yet he was rolling in money. One night the baker lost his patience and he placed a long distance call to God. God's assistants had gone to bed and hence God himself took the call. The baker cried his heart out and asked him why despite all his piety he is poor while the butcher is rich. God said, "My dear son, the butcher does not bug me like you do every day".​

 

[renuka]

>>

Very funny. "Ask not and you will be given" will be the new paradigm.

​

Desire is the root cause of our endless journey in this ocean of existence.
Just take life as it comes and stop always wanting to milk God for material.

When I was working as a doctor in a rural set up I still remember a simple tribal girl had come to the clinic.
The tribal girl didn't belong to any organized religion and the Non Hindu nurses were trying to get her to convert into their religion.

They asked the girl"Do you know that there is a God"
She said "Yes"
They asked again "But you do not even have a religion?"
The tribal girl replied "But I know there is a God"

Then the nurses asked her "In time of trouble like for example now you are sick who will help you when you pray"

The tribal girl replied "God guided me to come here to see the doctor"

I was just thinking to myself..this young tribal girl knew so much more than anyone with an organized religion.

 

[sudeshwer]

as I mentioned earlier, it totally depends upon one's faith. I wish to narrate my own experience some years back. one night we had to attend one North Indian marriage, about 15 km from my house. almost we reached the pandal when my car stopped and found lot of smoke from engine. on examination I found there was water leakage. nearby there was tea stall and obtained from them a bucketfull of water and poured it. The tea stall owner told me that water will flow away and there will be problem. I told my wife and daughter not to disturbe me as we are going back home. I started the car, reciting Gayatri Mantram praying to take me to my home without any problem. believe me, I just reached home a few feet away and the car stopped completely. My prayer paid off. well, my faith helped me

 

[mahakavi]

................ I started the car, reciting Gayatri Mantram praying to take me to my home without any problem. believe me, I just reached home a few feet away and the car stopped completely. My prayer paid off. well, my faith helped me

That is called a placebo effect. You thought it would help you and it did. In the medical field many drugs and non-drugs work by the same technique.