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We are Hindus and shouldn't we be on our guard?

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Amoorkan

Member
Kafeel Ahmed, the twenty-seven-year-old aeronautical engineer from Bangalore succumbed at the Glasgow Royal Infirmary, unable to recover from the 90 per cent burns that he got during his June 30 airport terrorist attack. Did he attack Glasgow airport because he was angry that the British colonialsts looted India for more than 300 years? No, he attacked because the British attacked Iraq.(?!) Such is the extra-territorial loyalty of the Muslim elites. Such of those who hold that education and wealth would wean the Muslims away from terrorism should think now. It is the message and the mindset that religion develop in their followers to look to Mecca and worship and despise others as infidels. The secualrists never tell the Muslims that their ancesstors were converted under threat of sword and their real heritage is Hindu. In the history books the secularists have each chapter for each Muslim king even though the Moguls from Babur to Aurangazeb ruled during a span of 150 years. The Vijayanagara Empire had greater land area than Babur's rule and the Emplire lasted for 300 years yet this fact is buried in one line or one paragraph. Such is the intellectual crime of the secularists against the Hindus. So I am starting this thread to highlight the day to day happenings that put the Hindus on guard. Please readers! Join with me and post your stories too.

Ayodhya mastermind had big terror plan for I-Day: Police
Tuesday August 14 2007 00:00 IST
PTI
JAMMU: The slain Jaish-e-Mohammad militant believed to be the Ayodhya attack mastermind had a "big terror plan" for Independence Day with mobile and satellite phones, explosives and fuse wires used for making cellphone bombs recovered from Saturday's encounter site here, police said.

JeM 'divisional commander' Kari Saifullah Aktar had also learnt driving from a training institute in Narwal and done a recce of sensitive areas, including the army camp, "as possible targets", police intelligence officials said on Monday.

An admission card of the institute besides 13 SIM cards (used and unused), several mobiles and a satellite handset, fuse wires and explosive substances were found in Maqsooda Begum's house, one of three hideouts Akhtar changed in the past month, they said.

"What was the need for so many SIM cards? We think these could have been used for making cellphone bombs to target VIPs during the Independence Day function here," they said.

They said the SIM card data analysis revealed a long list of contacts with girls in Delhi, Mumbai, Ranchi, Chennai, Hyderabad, Patna, Aligarh and the northeastern states as well as web-contacts.

The satellite phone data showed 102 calls to Sialkote, Islamabad, Muzaffarabad, Kotli, Abbotabad in Pakistan and PoK.

The security agencies have, however, been unable to get any "vital information" from interrogation of those arrested - Maqsooda Begum (a teacher in whose house the encounter took place), Zahira Kouser and H A Sidiqqi and injured militant Zafar, they said.



http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEH20070813111744&Page=H&Title=Top+Stories&Topic=0&
 

Chintana

Active member
No Alarming Messages Please!

Dear Sri Amoorkan,

Please suggest what we as individuals can do in our day-to-day lives to solve this problem.

As I mentioned in the other thread - What Hindus Need to be Aware of - our forum is a good place to discuss action plans. Thought-level discussions to clarify understandings of critical issues, of course, are more than welcome. To address the matter at hand, if you can suggest something that can form a part of our volunteering agenda that would be a very productive way of introducing such topics.

Otherwise they amount to empty sensationalism and we cannot afford to get alarmed as a multi-cultural diverse society. The politicians have done more than their fair share of floating hatred in our midst. This is a time to be aware, but most importantly it is also a time to heal - and find points of similarities on which we can come together. We as a community cannot take on the world by being nervous about its complexities. We need strategies and action plans.

Regards,
Chintana
 
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N.R.Ranganathan

Well-known member
We are Hindus and should n't we be on our guard ?

Sri Amoorkan's has quoted a fine example of Vijayanagara empire and its
longevity. This empire was established by HH Vidyaranya, one of the great
saint-scholars. He wrote commentaries on the Upanishads and also
authored the great advaitic treatise " Panchadasi". It is his inner strength
which lent prosperity to the Hindu empire. Our history is replete with instances of saints and Jnanis guiding the Hindu Kings like Swami
Ramdas and Emperor Shivaji. Sri Govinda Dikhshidar of Thanjavur
and Sri Neelakanta Dikhsidar of Madurai were ministers in their respective
kingdoms and guided their respective kings.
Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi once remarked that Jnanis do their work silently.
Late B.Rajam Iyer echoed similar sentiments in his famous book " Rambles
in Vedanta ".
Even today, we have many sages and siddhapurushas living amongst us.
They do the work silently, protecting our Sanatana dharma. We have
inner strength. We had in the past survived many intrusions and onslaughts
and we will, doubtless, emerge as a strong Hindu Nation.
This does not mean that we can sit back and relax; no sir, far from it.
We will work hard and work intelligently in whatever pursuits we are engaged
in without being perturbed by these incidents. It will make us strong.
We will , first of all, make ourselves strong by uniting the various divisions
amongst us.
 
R

Ramaa

Guest
Please suggest what we as individuals can do in our day-to-day lives to solve this problem.
Till they are conceded
(Members of this group can come together to make a suitable Charter of demands.
The charter of demands should be propagated throughout India in all the regional languages.)
(These are only some suggestions)
TheHindus should ignore all the arguments of secularists (all of them are in reality anti
national opportunists). They should ignore the constitution also which is discriminating between citizens on the basis of castes and religion. Constitution has become a handy document which is modified to suit the whims of MPs in parliament. If a document is amended more than hundred times it is obvious that it requires rewriting.

1. Unless there are uniform civil laws, Hindus should refuse to obey all laws selectively targeting Hindus, their temples and their social ways.

2. Hindus should enumerate the Millions of criminal acts of Muslims and Christians carried out from Historical times and Force them apologize to Hindus. The temples destroyed by them should be restored to Hindus along with temple lands.

3. The government should not be allowed to run the affairs of the Hindu temples.

4. Quran and Bible, Verses of which criminally interfere in to the lives of non followers should be banned. Conversion activities of Islam and Christians should be stopped. Reconversion to Hindu Dharma must be encouraged as most of the conversions are by force and inducements.

5. Hindus treat cows as god to show gratitude towards them. The cow and its progeny can support human civilization on their own. Hence ban on cow slaughter is a must. Shastras say that cows should be treated with great respect.

6. The national holy book should be Bhagavdgita as suggested by Allahabad high court.

7. There should be no reservations in educational institutions and government institutions which are based on castes and religions. All reservations should be based on economic status of the candidate.

8. BJP’s demands like removal of special status to Kashmir, rehabilitation of Pandits of Kashmir etc. should be implemented without delay.

9. Three mosques at Varanasi, Mathura and Ayodhya should be demolished and earlier temples of Lord Vishwanath, Lord Krishna and Lord Rama should be rebuilt immediately.

10. All Hindu youths should be trained in handling of modern guns and bombs. They should be trained in identifying and eliminating enemies of the nation and Dharma. They should also be trained in self defense and social service.
 

malgova.mango

Active member
A Very Good Thread

Dear Sri Amoorkan, Sri Ramaa, and others..

A very good thread indeed. I salute your contributions.

Regards

malgova.mango
 
F

Fehu

Guest
Sri Amoorkan's has quoted a fine example of Vijayanagara empire and its
longevity. This empire was established by HH Vidyaranya, one of the great
saint-scholars. He wrote commentaries on the Upanishads and also
authored the great advaitic treatise " Panchadasi". It is his inner strength
which lent prosperity to the Hindu empire. Our history is replete with instances of saints and Jnanis guiding the Hindu Kings like Swami
Ramdas and Emperor Shivaji. Sri Govinda Dikhshidar of Thanjavur
and Sri Neelakanta Dikhsidar of Madurai were ministers in their respective
kingdoms and guided their respective kings.
Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi once remarked that Jnanis do their work silently.
Late B.Rajam Iyer echoed similar sentiments in his famous book " Rambles
in Vedanta ".
Even today, we have many sages and siddhapurushas living amongst us.
They do the work silently, protecting our Sanatana dharma. We have
inner strength. We had in the past survived many intrusions and onslaughts
and we will, doubtless, emerge as a strong Hindu Nation.
This does not mean that we can sit back and relax; no sir, far from it.
We will work hard and work intelligently in whatever pursuits we are engaged
in without being perturbed by these incidents. It will make us strong.
We will , first of all, make ourselves strong by uniting the various divisions
amongst us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here all the references are to higher castes of Hindus who are minority in the democratic set up. I mean that you have pointed out the references on Dikhshidars and brahmins.But the approach is towards Hinduism in which these higher castes constitute a minority.
Fehu
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Well-known member
We are Hindus and shouldn't......

Mr.Fehu,
Mr.Amoorkan lamented that the historians have done little justice to the
empires run by Hindus and have referred to Vijayanagara samrajya. I have
endorsed his views and added one or two to his list of illustrious hindu
empires. That is all to it.
 

malgova.mango

Active member
Dear Moderators

I want to nominate the post by Mr. Ramaa--- in this thread for the best poster. But I don't know how to do that.

Regards
 
F

Fehu

Guest
Tamil Brahmins are a meagre 3 to 4% in Tamil Nadu.And the percentage gets diluted as we take the whole of India. Rammaa ji is taking a view as a representative of all Hindus.Although the perception is laudable it should have endorsement of all Hindus.How this is possible.Please draw a charter for Tamil Brahmins or at least a code of conduct.Such a smaller view is necessary before dovetailing that into all Hindus view. The foort requires a direction towards Tamil Brahmins.
Standing on pulpit and declaring a charter ofr all hindus to wipe out their woes does not bode well in the circumstances. If we confine to our area of "Tamil Brahmins" that would throw some light on our position as we are all Tamil Brahmins.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear sri Ram Ji,

I agree with most of the points, except for #s 5,6,9 and 10. My reasoning is as follows:

#5: This is meaningless - before we as Hindus demand this from other religions, which do permit the cow's flesh as normal food - we should not allow any Hindu who owns a cow abandon her after her useful days. Most of the cattle you see in India, foraging on plastics and meeting a horrid death are cows released by Hindu owners.

#6: Srimad Bhagavad Gita is as dear to us as the New Testament and the Quran to Christians and Muslims respectively in India, who are Indians. Unless the Indian Constituition is changed with the agreement of everyone who is Indian that India is a 'Hindu' nation, like Pakistan is an 'Islamic' nation, this should not be attempted.

#9: There is no gain in 'demolishing'. Let us build grand temples in these towns as you recommend, without creating unnecessary communal disharmony.

#10:This is the most dangerous item here. We live in a so called civilized democracy. In India, if I am not mistaken, owning guns and bombs without the approval of the government is a crime. We can not be doing what is unlawful.

I understand the fury of Hindus who believe, correctly, that there is an onslaught of other religions on their life in India. But the solution is not militancy. If Hindus unite (almost 80% of the country) and vote in a political party that they favour, then there is no need for any taking up guns. Who is to blame? We as Hindus are the ones to be blamed.

Even in a small Forum like this, where we discuss, we come across brick bats and intolerance about each other's views! Do you think that as a community, we will all agree to a goose stepping of just one way?

We, as a society better understand the art of persuasion, not only amongst ourselves, but with the wider community of Indians as well.

Pranams,
KRS

Till they are conceded



(Members of this group can come together to make a suitable Charter of demands.



The charter of demands should be propagated throughout India in all the regional languages.)



(These are only some suggestions)


TheHindus should ignore all the arguments of secularists (all of them are in reality anti
national opportunists). They should ignore the constitution also which is discriminating between citizens on the basis of castes and religion. Constitution has become a handy document which is modified to suit the whims of MPs in parliament. If a document is amended more than hundred times it is obvious that it requires rewriting.

1. Unless there are uniform civil laws, Hindus should refuse to obey all laws selectively targeting Hindus, their temples and their social ways.

2. Hindus should enumerate the Millions of criminal acts of Muslims and Christians carried out from Historical times and Force them apologize to Hindus. The temples destroyed by them should be restored to Hindus along with temple lands.

3. The government should not be allowed to run the affairs of the Hindu temples.

4. Quran and Bible, Verses of which criminally interfere in to the lives of non followers should be banned. Conversion activities of Islam and Christians should be stopped. Reconversion to Hindu Dharma must be encouraged as most of the conversions are by force and inducements.

5. Hindus treat cows as god to show gratitude towards them. The cow and its progeny can support human civilization on their own. Hence ban on cow slaughter is a must. Shastras say that cows should be treated with great respect.

6. The national holy book should be Bhagavdgita as suggested by Allahabad high court.

7. There should be no reservations in educational institutions and government institutions which are based on castes and religions. All reservations should be based on economic status of the candidate.

8. BJP’s demands like removal of special status to Kashmir, rehabilitation of Pandits of Kashmir etc. should be implemented without delay.

9. Three mosques at Varanasi, Mathura and Ayodhya should be demolished and earlier temples of Lord Vishwanath, Lord Krishna and Lord Rama should be rebuilt immediately.

10. All Hindu youths should be trained in handling of modern guns and bombs. They should be trained in identifying and eliminating enemies of the nation and Dharma. They should also be trained in self defense and social service.
 

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malgova.mango

Active member
Defending the points

Dear Sri KRSji!


I defend the points in a spirit of friendliness

5 – Showing gratitude to cows, here I want to extend it to buffaloes also.


The Hindu dharma is “sanathana dharma” meaning it applies to entire humanity and not resticted by
the “term” Hindu. Showing gratitude is welcoming good. We as infants, it can be anyone from humanity, depends on the nourishment of milk alone we are simply unable to digest anyother things. Mother's milk alone is not enough and we depends on cows and buffaloes for our very sustenance.


The Sanatana Dharma correctly recognise cows as equal to mothers. The gory act of eating mothers (here cows and buffaloes) is to be corrected. To err is human and to realize the error and to correct is also under his power only. So Mr. Ramaa Ji is correct only.


Your concern of cows left out by Hindus and their suffering is only applicable in cities. In towns and villages they 'll find something other for nourishments. Here “Krishna Premai” and some of our Brahmin leaders are doing outstanding works like building “Goshalas” and preaching the importance of gratitude.


6 – Taking cue from the above logic, The content of “Bhagavat Gita” is applicable to everyone, that's why our former president could get inspiration from it. It doesn't say that you should pray to only this god and only like this. This universal nature of the content is to be appreciated and made as a Holy Book and also this will reinforce the identity.


9 - I agree with your views only in the face of bomb culture. No not a time for this now.


10 – I also have reservation like you , but the bomb culture, and the break down of Law and Order in the country demands this kind of defence.
 

N.R.Ranganathan

Well-known member
We are Hindus and shouldn't......

Dear Sri KRSji,
I quote from scriptures :

" swasthi praajaabya : paripaalayanthaam
nyaayena maargena maheem maheecha : !
ghobraahmanebhya ; subamasthu nithyam
lokho : samastha ; sukino bhavanthu "

This sloka is normally recited by Hindus when commencing and concluding
Ramayana paarayana. Here the relevant portion for us is - Let cows and
brahmins live happily.

Again, in saanthi parva of 'Mahabharata', there is a sloka-

" namo brahmanya devaya ghobrahmana hithaya cha !
jagatvithaya krishnaya govindaya namonamah : !!

The meaning is - Salutations to Lord Krishna who protects cows and
brahmins.

In Tamil, we have Gnanasambandar's thevaaram , which runs thus :

"வாழ்க அந்தணர் வானவர் ஆனினம்
வீழ்க தண்புனல் வேந்தனும் ஓங்குக
ஆழ்க தீயதெல் லாம்அரன் நாமமே
சூழ்க வையக மும்துயர் தீர்கவே "

All these verses point out the importance and holiness of Cows. Therefore
cow-slaughter must be banned. This is the view of the learned pundits of
yester-years on point no.5.

As regards Srimad Bhagavat Gita, its authenticity and universal applicability
is , doubtless, unquestionable, coming as it does from the Lord Himself.
It is considered to be essence of all the upanishads. The Gita
mangalacharanam , ver 4 says :

" sarvo upanishado ghaavo dhoktho gopalanandana;
paartho vathsa : soothirbhokthaa dhuktham gitamrutham mahat :

meaning ' all the upanishads are cows, lord Krishna is the shepherd who
milks . Arjuna is the calf. The milk of the cows is Gita. Those who drink
this milk are Vidwans '.

It is a great smriti and almost all have acknowledged this fact. But, our
politicians will not even include it in the schools' curriculum.

I agree with you that the existing mosques and churches must not be
demolished , since if we do this , we will be committing sin similar to what
they did. Two sins do not cancel out each other.

Also, there is no place for violence and militancy in a civilized society.

Some of the points mentioned by sri Ramaaji have been taken up by some
organizations with the central government about two decades ago , but
in vain.

I wonder often whether sri Ramaaji is dreaming ! Our country's politicians
are a corrupt lot and morally bankrupt. They will not even think on these
lines. Anti-conversion law is in place in Gujarat , but see what happened
in TamilNadu. JayaLalitha introduced it, but she had to withdraw it later
due to elections !
 
Last edited:

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri MM Ji and Sri N.R.R. Ji,

Let me hasten to add that I am not questioning our religion's views on protecting cows and buffaloes. What I am questioning is our present ways of implementing such rules.

Most of the non-hindu populations in the world now raise cattle for consumption (along with other animals). This animal farming does not seem to affect the production of dairy products in these countries. Beef is often viewed as a necessary protein and iron source (albeit now with decreasing popularity) that even in Japan where sea food is the prime fare, Kobe beef is viewed as a luxury once in a while. It is also instructive to see that the very folks who will readily consume beef, put a line against consuming horse's meat or dog's meat based on the principle that they are man's best friends!

So clearly this is a religion based belief to protect these animals from slaughter. But to implement the law against slaghter in India (from what I hear, this law already exists on the books), one needs the cooperation and permission from the non-hindu communities in India. I even hear that some brahmin communities consume beef regularly to this day. So one needs to get the cooperation of these people. Or another way to implement this is to declare India a Hindu nation and start implementing this law without caring about any minority views on it.

About Gita, I have the same line of thought. Yes, we know it is from the Bhagawan and we accept it. But others will cite their belief that the Bible and Quron are also from Him and ask them to be adapted as well. Again the solution seems to be either cooperation or cooption as I describe above.

I deplore the current state of vote bank politics for creating such an animosity between our communities. All these issues used to be resolved amicably between neighbor to neighbor, without resorting to any need for police. The idea of live and let live seems to have vanished!

Pranams,
KRS
 

Desi

Member
Dear KRS,

I even hear that some brahmin communities consume beef regularly to this day.
What percentage of Brahmins comsume beef in India? Given the fact that Brahmins are generally vegetarian, beef eating brahmins would be a rarity to the extent it will be extraneous to the topic. Anything that is not close to a scientific truth is is an abuse of opinion. In my mind this is a wanton slighting on the Brahmins on such frivolus rarity. I know from your writing that you do not consider cow protection to be sacred in your heart.

I am sure Mr. Ramaa is asking for cow protection fom the very long historical dharma of the Hindus and who else but we Hindus demand it? Remember this is one of the reason that the first war of independence was triggered in India against the murderous british christian colonialists 150 years ago.

Regards,
 

KRS

Well-known member
Whoa, Sri Desi Ji,

With all due respect, please do not put words in my mouth. I said what I said only to point out that this issue is religious faith based. So, are you saying that there are no beef eating brahmins, or if there are some they can be counted with fingers on one hand? I have had quite a bit of conversations about this from Brahmins around India, and I stand by my statement. This is not to denigrate Brahmins but rather to say even in our community a few folks don't subscribe to this 'universal' policy. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Please do not draw conclusions on your own what is in my heart!

By the way, I did not disagree with Sri Ram Ji on the merit of his point. I have only questioned how one would go about implementing it. This has nothing to do with slighting Brahmins or any one else.

It seems all it takes for anyone to mention cows or castes, then folks see red.

Pranams,
KRS





Dear KRS,

What percentage of Brahmins comsume beef in India? Given the fact that Brahmins are generally vegetarian, beef eating brahmins would be a rarity to the extent it will be extraneous to the topic. Anything that is not close to a scientific truth is is an abuse of opinion. In my mind this is a wanton slighting on the Brahmins on such frivolus rarity. I know from your writing that you do not consider cow protection to be sacred in your heart.

I am sure Mr. Ramaa is asking for cow protection fom the very long historical dharma of the Hindus and who else but we Hindus demand it? Remember this is one of the reason that the first war of independence was triggered in India against the murderous british christian colonialists 150 years ago.

Regards,
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Desi Ji,

In the above posting I tried to make clear why I said what I said. Now let me respond to these words.

Yes, cow protection should be asked for by the Hindus. As I said, it is already in the laws of India. But do you see it implemented? Even during the BJP rule, they did not implement it. Why?

Because there is no way to safeguard the rights of a sizeable minority who do consume beef in India by altogether banishing the slaughter.

Hindus rebelled against the British, because the British were insensitive towards Hindus sentiments by forcing them to do something against their wishes. Should we do the same thing to the minorities? This is my point.

Regards,
KRS




Dear KRS,
I am sure Mr. Ramaa is asking for cow protection fom the very long historical dharma of the Hindus and who else but we Hindus demand it? Remember this is one of the reason that the first war of independence was triggered in India against the murderous british christian colonialists 150 years ago.

Regards,
 

Desi

Member
Dear KRS,

Your statement is still unscientific and based on hearsay about the extent of Brahmins consuming beef. Let's leave it to every one as to how they wish to perceive it!

As regards BJP's performance while in power, it was abysmal to say the least. They were trying to keep the gaddi conceding to everyone but the Hindus on whose votes they came to power. And certainly not for the reason that you have stated. Hope they have learnt a lesson as to how betrayal would be rewarded.

Regards,
 
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