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War cry in holy cities A storm is gathering along the banks of river Ganges.

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This tu-Tu Mai-mai is waste of time.
In Hinduism we worship even a moorty made of Cow dung. We worship mountains, rivers, trees and other inanimate object. It is not ignirance, it is with the understand that everything is Brahmam.
In some hindu groups we worship Ram, Krishna as God. They had human birth. WE worship Radha, Andal, Mira, Nandi (Bull), Stars, planets.
So there is nothing wrong in worshipping Satya Sai, saibaba, chinmayanada, Budha or any other form. When the adi shankara did not object to moorty worship, who is Swaroopanada is lay a new edict?

I do not condone angering a section of Hindus. This is doubly true for a "so called leader".
So please no burning or killing.
 
The question is not whether treating Shirdi Baba as God is right or wrong, But denying the right of Swamy Sampoornanand Maharaj to say that he should not be prayed to like Hindu Gods.Swamyji does not speak FOR the Hindus. He speaks to the Hindus who follow him. My daughter-in-law makes frequent visits to Shirdi for fulfiling some "mannath'. I don't offer my opinion on this.It has become a fashion to denigrate Hindu Seers and extol non-hindu godmen, offer Chaddar, in the name of "sarva Dharma SamaBava". No wonder Musharraf called Hindus ""Khojas and Shariff "Dehati Aurat".

I think it is Manmohan Singh and not Shariff
 
Insult of an Indian by a Pakistani is not a cause of celebration, however low an opinion of that Indian you have.
 
Unwanted controversy

Sri Aadi Shankaracharya himself had said, ''Shlokaardhena pravakshyami yaduktam grantha kotibhih: Brahma satyam, jagan mithya, jeevo brahmaiva naparah'' which means '' I mention in half a shloka what has been said in a crore. (koti) books : Brahman is the truth, the world is a lie (illusion or unreal) and the Jeeva is none other than Brahman Himself'''. So, every living being is God Himself according to Advaita. If that is the case with ordinary jeevas, there is no doubt that a saint like Shirdi Said Baba is verily Brahman Himself. In the Geeta Krishna says : '' Jnani atmaiva mae matam'' which means ,
''It is my opinion that an atmajnani is not different from Me.''
So, there is nothing wrong if an Advaiti worships Shirdi Baba or any other saint as God.
Even if Baba was a Muslim, he cannot be considered to be a Muslim according to some Towheed Jamaat scholars. According to them anyone who worshps gods other than Allah and believes in ldolatry is NOT a Muslim at all. Shirdi Baba worshipped the idols of Rama and Hanuman. He himself had said that his guru was a Maharashtrian brahmin whose surname was Deshpande.
To be continued.....
 
Unwanted controversy

Sri Aadi Shankaracharya himself had said, ''Shlokaardhena pravakshyami yaduktam grantha kotibhih: Brahma satyam, jagan mithya, jeevo brahmaiva naparah'' which means '' I mention in half a shloka what has been said in a crore. (koti) books : Brahman is the truth, the world is a lie (illusion or unreal) and the Jeeva is none other than Brahman Himself'''. So, every living being is God Himself according to Advaita. If that is the case with ordinary jeevas, there is no doubt that a saint like Shirdi Said Baba is verily Brahman Himself. In the Geeta Krishna says : '' Jnani atmaiva mae matam'' which means ,
''It is my opinion that an atmajnani is not different from Me.''
So, there is nothing wrong if an Advaiti worships Shirdi Baba or any other saint as God.
Even if Baba was a Muslim, he cannot be considered to be a Muslim according to some Towheed Jamaat scholars. According to them anyone who worshps gods other than Allah and believes in ldolatry is NOT a Muslim at all. Shirdi Baba worshipped the idols of Rama and Hanuman. He himself had said that his guru was a Maharashtrian brahmin whose surname was Deshpande.
To be continued.....
 
Unwanted controversy II

Moreover Shirdi Baba had said that in his previous incarnation (poorva janma), he was Kabeer Das, the great Rama Bhakta and a Muslim weaver of Varanasi. In that janma also his guru was a brahmin sannyasi by name Ramanand. belonging to the Ramanuja Vaishnava sampradaya.
 
Unwanted controversy III

By the way I am NOT a devotee of Sri Shirdi Sai Baba. Although I am an Advaiti (Smarta) Brahmin, I am unfit to talk about such lofty subjects. Only a man of self-realisation is fit enough to talk about these things. ''Oomai vaayanukku uLaRu vaayan mael''.
 
Well what about the other Swamiji who joined in and said "temples of Shiridi Baba will be defaced?"

Why blame invaders for breaking temples when a Sanyasi himself is behaving in a similar manner?

BTW how does the Shankarcharya know that Shridi Baba was NOT a Lord Shiva incarnate?

Why is he having tunnel vision?

In Shankara Digvijaya Adi Shnakara Himself is supposed to be a Lord Shiva incarnate..why isnt the present day Shankaracharya objecting to that? That a human is being called a Lord Shiva incarnate?

Shiva means Auspiciousness...Atma in its True Form is as Adi Shankara sang in Atma Shatakam "Chidananda Roopah Shivoham Shivoham"...too bad if the present day Shankaracharya sees Lord Shiva as a separate entity somewhere up in Kailash alone..I wonder what ever happened to Advaita?
 
.Swamyji does not speak FOR the Hindus. He speaks to the Hindus who follow him. .

Exactly! He does not speak for Hindus..and going by his own words that no Hindu should pray to a Human..so why does anyone need to listen to the Shankaracharya who is nothing but a human too?

So there you go..you have answered your own question..Shankaracharya has NO right to act like a Self Proclaimed Religious Leader..in fact I have never even heard of him till now!LOL

BTW the Shankaracharya should know not to interfere in any types of worship..he has a traditional mind set which is actually Abrahamic in my opinion especially when he is using words like Hindu Gods..so that means there are also Non Hindu Gods?? So that means there is more than One God?

Suddenly he has decided to ditch Advaita and play "My God is different from your God game?"LOL

So it very clear that Advaita is no where in the picture..so what is it now? Dualism??

So somehow it seems that true Advatins do not exist! At least whatever said and done Vaishnavas seemed focused and steady about Sriman Narayana.

Advaitins seem to be like pendulums swinging back forth from Advaita (when it suits them) and to Dvaita (when there is an urgent need)....what Maya yaar?


Well I feel Shiridi Baba devotees should just play the Advaita game and just tell the present day Shankaracharya "Neti Neti" and cased closed!LOL
 
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Exactly! He does not speak for Hindus..and going by his own words that no Hindu should pray to a Human..so why does anyone need to listen to the Shankaracharya who is nothing but a human too?

So there you go..you have answered your own question..Shankaracharya has NO right to act like a Self Proclaimed Religious Leader..in fact I have never even heard of him till now!LOL

BTW the Shankaracharya should know not to interfere in any types of worship..he has a traditional mind set which is actually Abrahamic in my opinion especially when he is using words like Hindu Gods..so that means there are also Non Hindu Gods?? So that means there is more than One God?

Suddenly he has decided to ditch Advaita and play "My God is different from your God game?"LOL

So it very clear that Advaita is no where in the picture..so what is it now? Dualism??

So somehow it seems that true Advatins do not exist! At least whatever said and done Vaishnavas seemed focused and steady about Sriman Narayana.

Advaitins seem to be like pendulums swinging back forth from Advaita (when it suits them) and to Dvaita (when there is an urgent need)....what Maya yaar?


Well I feel Shiridi Baba devotees should just play the Advaita game and just tell the present day Shankaracharya "Neti Neti" and cased closed!LOL

Let us be against any form of violence - by mind, by words and by deeds.
We do not want anyone bearing the name of Sadhu (Naga Sadhu whoever they are) to go and think of violence. That will bring bad name to all Sadhus. I would like to think they get back to meditate.

I hope anyone bearing the title of Sankaracharya do not get engaged in politics of any kind. The position he has taken would have been fine had he not directed at Sai devotees. There is a good reason for advocating six modes of worship and this has nothing to with Advita or any such concepts (which are never understood anyway).

If he said only about the modes of worship without criticizing anyone and provided the reasons there would be no issue. We do not want centuries of lineage that has provided guidance to ordinary people getting tainted.

I hope the Sai devotees go back to doing their prayers and bhajan and stop burning effigies. They bring a cult name when true devotees do not speak against such violent acts by criminals (I do not want to call them devotees)

I hope the situation does not get out of control with politicians and media having their vested interest to fan the flames ..
 
Since a case has been filed under 'hurting religious sentiments', and shankaracharya will not fight it out in courts, he will withdraw his views in public or in private and the posturings from both sides will soon subside.
Shirdi samsthan is rich and powerful, controlled by sharad pawar and ncp. Can't rule out reignition during assembly election time. 90% politics 10% religion.
 
It is better to let the groups fight it out and settle it among themselves. RSS must stay away. They have a lot to learn from modi.
 
I hope the Sai devotees go back to doing their prayers and bhajan and stop burning effigies. They bring a cult name when true devotees do not speak against such violent acts by criminals (I do not want to call them devotees)

Burning an effigy is legally classified under protest..not all countries have the Public Order and Nuisance Act which covers the act of burning material near public roads.

Technically when there is NO grievous hurt and NO loss of life the act of burning an effigy is NOT considered a Criminal Act.

So the usage of the word Criminal here to denote the devotees is not correct.

BTW to be on the safer side of law..protesters can douse and effigy with water instead...so the message is got across without using fire..cos in some countries burning an effigy is considered a Public Nuisance but there is no law or act to stop dousing an effigy with water.

So if you cant use Agni..you can always use Water mixed with Non combustible material of choice.
 
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"Just because you are the madathipathy you do not become a reverend".For prasad1, A Matadhipathi is less than a "Reverend"- the lowest denomination of Christian priests. Tamil Brahmins,among Hindus, tolerate any insult to their traditions, Acharyas,beliefs etc., because they are terrified of the imagined consequences of reacting to the insults.Instead of asserting that "My Acharya's word is वेदवाक्, they take the opponent's side, to show their उदारचरितम्. Instead of taking advice from the Guru, they have the temerity to advise him on what he should and should not say.A man does not need God, but he needs a Guru who will show him the way to God.
अज्ञानतिमिरान्धस्य ज्ञानाञ्जनशलाकया । चक्षुरुन्मीलितं येन तस्मै श्रीगुरवे नमः ॥
Realise your own strength. ब्रह्मतेजोबलम् बलम्
सदाशिव समारम्भां शंकराचार्य मद्यमाम् अस्मदाचार्य पर्यन्तां वन्दे गुरु परंपराम्.





 
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An SV's view:

1. For many people who go to worship a God, the God requires to be proactive. The expectation is that God will answer the prayers, queries and pleadings etc., readily participate in a business deal (sauda) where what he is expected to give to the devotee is larger than what the devotee will give Him, or He has to somehow show that He really exists by at least giving them "vibrations". My friend says he gets the vibrations in certain temples and does not get it in other temples. So, for him God exists only if He gives him the vibrations.

2. Automatically the next stage in the spiritual journey is one in which any one who gives vibrations, who does miracles or whose darshan solves personal problems has to be elevated to the rarified status of a God. Even people who do not get vibrations etc in the presence of deities in the temple get these vibrations in the presence of some individuals who are called by various names such as Baba, Swamiji, mahantji etc., etc., The reason is not far to seek. Unfortunately these babas, swamis etc., are all just human beings with a certain achievements which we will see in some detail below. But being ordinary human beings they have their pluses and minuses.


3. These swamijis, babas etc are souls who are called in our religious literature as sidhdha purushas. They have achieved by continuous and strenuous efforts (called tapas) abilities which are called Ashta sidhdhi. These include the ability to travel back and forth in time, walk on water, be present in different points in space at the same time, getting lighter than air etc., etc., The people mentioned in 1 above when they visit such sidhdha purushas they get the vibrations, they see miracle happening, and their future and past told precisely etc., Thus a sidhdha purusha may ask one of his devotess "Hey why did you fight with that Chaiwallah for giving you less sugar in your tea when you started from your home town?" and our friend will feel floored. The sidhdha purusha becomes a God from that moment. Many such things can be done by those who have attained the ashta sidhdhies. In all this the fact that the sidhdha purusha himself, knowing fully that his visitor will be thoroughly impressed, goes about this kind of an ego trip. To that extent he is no where near becoming a God. What is the need to materialise a mango or a small statuette from the thin air, or what is the need to ask a devotee what he did in his home that day morning? The truth is that the sidhdha purusha himself needs to impress the visitor/his sishyas and so does all this as a trick without saying so. In an Abrahamic religion like Christianity, such people (sidhdha purushas) are recognized as saints only posthumously and that is somewhat better than Hinduism in which the babas are many and they are alive and furiously kicking too.

4. Coming to Shirdi Baba, he is one of those sidhdha purushas. He did many miracles during his lifetime and after and perhaps his devotees are impressed by that. They were calling him a baba so far and now they want to make him the God. The Shankaracharya taking up the issue has no locus standi because he is no different from the sai bhaktas as he and his followers also believe in calling a sidhdhapurusha a God or a God's incarnation. The only difference is that Shirdi baba was born a muslim whereas the umpteen sidhdha purushas that Shankaracharya's followers worship as God's incarnation are Hindus. Attaining the sidhdhi is possible for any human being whether a muslim, a hindu or a christian (a la The Mother of Pondichery).

5. For every known sidhdha purusha there are a hundred other sidhdha purushas who just do not bother to reveal their sidhdhis to the world. Go to Himalayas and you can find many such evolved souls. The most important characteristic of them is that they have no ego at all and so no need to tickle it by performing miracles before their sishyas. They lead a quiet life.

6. SV Acharyas, many of them, are indeed sidhdha purushas (they also do a lot of tapas and achieve siddhies) who make it a point not to show off their powers of sidhdhi and they condemn it as a dangerous diversion in their path to salvation. They believe it is a dangerous, enticing and digressive soliloquy in an otherwise crisp, beautiful and purposeful narrative called pious life. They advise their sishyas strongly to avoid going after such sidhdhies. For them the ego has to be completely subordinated so that they remain steadfast in their belief in God.

7. It would be good for Shankaracharya and for Hinduism if he drops his plans of agitation because a kettle cannot call a pot black. If it is politics that he is playing, the course of events will be decided by other factors.
 
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Burning an effigy is legally classified under protest..not all countries have the Public Order and Nuisance Act which covers the act of burning material near public roads.

Technically when there is NO grievous hurt and NO loss of life the act of burning an effigy is NOT considered a Criminal Act.

So the usage of the word Criminal here to denote the devotees is not correct.

BTW to be on the safer side of law..protesters can douse and effigy with water instead...so the message is got across without using fire..cos in some countries burning an effigy is considered a Public Nuisance but there is no law or act to stop dousing an effigy with water.

So if you cant use Agni..you can always use Water mixed with Non combustible material of choice.

Local laws may or may not be aligned with Common sense Dharma. In some countries stoning a person to death for being gay could be a law. Local laws are not yardticks to sense severity of an act.

Acts of violence can be committed by deeds , words and by mind. Burning an effigy of a person is an extreme form of violence. Calling the acts conducted by devotees diminishes and disgrace real devotees in my view
 
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Stop questioning the faith of other group. Think how to bring up our old glory by redesigning our sanadhana dharma considering the inclusion of all sections of people. Otherwise, any religion, even it is good, like Jainism and Buddhism, get slowly either vanishing or moving to other countries..
 
Local laws may or may not be aligned with Common sense Dharma. In some countries stoning a person to death for being gay could be a law. Local laws are not yardticks to sense severity of an act.

Acts of violence can be committed by deeds , words and by mind. Burning an effigy of a person is an extreme form of violence. Calling the acts conducted by devotees diminishes and disgrace real devotees in my view


LOL! What's this?

One can NOT call anyone a criminal if he/she cant be booked under any specific act of Crime.

Common Sense Dharma has no Locus Standi in court.

Further more when you say Dharma..Dharma is totally not fixed as one size fits alll..cos Dharma differs from Varna to Varna and Guna to Guna according to Hindu Dharma.

So a person with predominant Rajo Guna will react in a manner which might seem relatively "violent"as compared to a Sattva Guna individual....as long as he/she has NOT caused loss of life/lives.,grievous hurt or damage to public property then even Per Dharmic Code he/she has NOT committed a Crime..unless you are thinking that burning the Shankaracharya's effigy amounts to Brahmana Hatya!LOL
 
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One has to understand the mind of simple folks..they are more emotional and passionate and might react harshly if what they love is insulated.

For example for a person living in a town if someone abuses his mother he might not react and just keep quiet but if someone abuses a mother of a villager the villager will not keep quiet and might hit the abuser.

BTW one more thing the Shankaracharya needs to remember that in Hinduism the Varna/Caste/Jati stigma still prevails and simple folks might never really feel totally 'welcomed" in worship cos by virtue of birth they could be denied certain aspects of the Hindu religion.

In worship of Shridi Sai Baba all are welcomed and stigma of Caste/Jati/Varna has taken the back step..so there is freedom for everyone.

The Shankaracharaya should know not to rob away the freedom of worship of the common simple man since in his Mutt I am sure the rigid rules of Varnaism will be still maintained.
 
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LOL! What's this?

One can NOT call anyone a criminal if he/she cant be booked under any specific act of Crime.

Common Sense Dharma has no Locus Standi in court.

Further more when you say Dharma..Dharma is totally not fixed as one size fits alll..cos Dharma differs from Varna to Varna and Guna to Guna according to Hindu Dharma.

So a person with predominant Rajo Guna will react in a manner which might seem relatively "violent"as compared to a Sattva Guna individual....as long as he/she has NOT caused loss of life/lives.,grievous hurt or damage to public property then even Per Dharmic Code he/she has NOT committed a Crime..unless you are thinking that burning the Shankaracharya's effigy amounts to Brahmana Hatya!LOL

Kindly re-read my post. I used the word "common sense Dharma" - Another way to refer to it is Samanya Dharma.
No Varna based Dharma or any other specialized rules can violate Samanya Dharma which does not need any formal scriptural studies to understand. It is understood by all human beings and it has nothing to do with their religion.

Therefore the Guna of a person is irrelevant in the discussion.

Burning someone's form regardless of who the person is , is exhibition of violence and hatred. No one needs any education for that.

It may not be criminal in a given country but that speaks to the kind of laws that country has.
Honor killing is not exactly a crime in some villages in Pakistan and other places.

But most people will agree that burning effigy of one's form is violence in thinking and in act. If you want to call the people by other terms like thugs or hooligans instead of criminal (in India) then so be it.
 
One has to understand the mind of simple folks..they are more emotional and passionate and might react harshly if what they love is insulated.

For example for a person living in a town if someone abuses his mother he might not react and just keep quiet but if someone abuses a mother of a villager the villager will not keep quiet and might hit the abuser.

BTW one more thing the Shankaracharya needs to remember that in Hinduism the Varna/Caste/Jati stigma still prevails and simple folks might never really feel totally 'welcomed" in worship cos by virtue of birth they could be denied certain aspects of the Hindu religion.

In worship of Shridi Sai Baba all are welcomed and stigma of Caste/Jati/Varna has taken the back step..so there is freedom for everyone.

The Shankaracharaya should know not to rob away the freedom of worship of the common simple man since in his Mutt I am sure the rigid rules of Varnaism will be still maintained.

The person bearing the name of Sankaracharya is better off not making the comments attributed to him. He has potential to bring down the role he is entrusted with.

Wish true devotees just learn to ignore the comments and not give so much weight.
 
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BTW one more thing the Shankaracharya needs to remember that in Hinduism the Varna/Caste/Jati stigma still prevails and simple folks might never really feel totally 'welcomed" in worship cos by virtue of birth they could be denied certain aspects of the Hindu religion.

Nothing can be farther from truth. Which Hinduism is spoken about here? The Hinduism that is practised by performing umpteen rituals in which sanskrit mantras are recited or the Hinduism that is practised in the numerous fashionable Kalyana utsavams, teppa utsavams etc that are celebrated in the numerous temples? It is not the only Hinduism that exists there. My village has a big temple for a God by name Pattaraayan (no one here would have come across this name I am sure) who is the God for the majority of the people in my village-majority because there are converted christians too living there. In the temple of that God every year a Kodai (a kind of annual utsavam) is held in which freshly brewed arrack and special Dindigul cigar are offered with a lot of love and devotion by the numerous bhaktas. And what more, in the night of that Kodai day many goats and sheeps and cocks are killed and offered to the deity. If any one was unable to identify himself with the goings on there it was a brahmin boy (me) whose value system was totally different. So who was unwelcome in the worship here? Caste, varna, jAti are terms used flippantly by people here without any understanding of the underlying realities. Everyone wants to be a politician here and if you get a chance you can not resist the temptation to give a kick to the unmentionable Brahmin here as you pass him. Vicarious pleasure perhaps. LOL.
 
At least in shirdi sai temple, all rituals and aarti are vaidic with samskrit mantras, bhajans in samskrit, regional language and hindi. Severall sessions of sathyanarayan puja every day and all festivals as per hindu calendar. Priests with panchakacham, saffron shawl, and sacred thread contribute to the atmosphere. Perhaps the bio of sai baba published by the sansthan will throw more light on his life at shirdi and on his followers then.

"The three main festivals are celebrated in Shirdi. They are Ramnavami (March/April), Guru Purnima (July),and Vijayadashami (September). These festivals are celebrated with great passion, verve and he artfulness. There is a programme of puja, music (bhajan) public parayana (reading of scriptures and devotional texts) and exuberant processions with the palanquin and the Rath (cart). The Samadhi Mandir remains open all night during one of these days with Dwarkamai being open the previous night and there are all night bhajan and qawali sessions at various locations in the village. Printed programmes with full details are available at the Sansthan Office."


 
The person bearing the name of Sankaracharya is better off not making the comments attributed to him. He has potential to bring down the role he is entrusted with.

Wish true devotees just learn to ignore the comments and not give so much weight.

So now you want to prescribe the role of Sankaracharya and what comments he should or should not make.That makes you his Guru and our "Parama Guru".I wonder whether at all you have a Guru (other than your father who gave you Brahmopadesam).If you did have a Guru you would have known what a sin it is to denigrate a Guru.

It is never too late.surrender to a guru of your choice and experience the difference in your outlook.
 
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