Veda Classes for All Castes

[murali]

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suresh,
do not worry.no way can the govt. appoint whomever they want as temple priests.The simple reason.non- brahmanas are only against the "secular" brahmanas.(and that too as far as quotas are concerned)I think many are misreading the situation.

In fact,even i am terribly confused.On the one hand mrifan sir and kashyap have genuine grievances.On the other hand so many nris want to come back to madras,srirangam.The land prices are booming in south madras.One reason is the nris and software professionals,many of whom are from our community.

Tamils are also doing well.Thousands of graduates are getting employed in software companies.Investment is pouring in.

I have opportunities to meet many students.There is no rancour in the younger generation.Tamil brahmanas have resigned themselves to private engg colleges.and then study abroad/software jobs.

The non-brahmana community has never had it so good.Most of the caste hindus are deep believers in temple worship.Why should they rock the boat? They too are socially conservative.

 

[hariharan1972]

Read in Karuthu & I quote

Quote :

In Tiruvallur district, there is a village Narasingapuram. Till some years back a vaishnavite temple (belonging to Vijayanagara period) was there in a dilapidated condition. A man (Madhavan battacharya is his present name) from Mudaliyar community, -who has learnt 'Pancharatra agama' from a man "Nam pillai" (He belonged to Naidu caste) for 3 years -managed to restore the said Sri Lakshmi Narasimhar temple and has been doing everyday prayers and priestly rituals. Now that temple is gaining fame.
Narasingapuram village has a strong D.M.K. back-ground. Many mudaliyars of that village are staunch D.M.K. supporters. Now those dominant Mudaliyar families doesn't want a non-brahmin (that too their own community man) to do the job of priest. They expect that only a brahmin should do it and they try to oust that non-brahmin priest, Madhavan battacharya. Now he went to HR&CE commissioner and complained in this regard. He was guided by activists of Indian Peoples' Front.
What the Periyar devotees are going to do now? Do they dare to hold a meeting in that village and speak against the Dominant Mudaliyars who try to oust that priest from Mudaliyar community?

Unquote

 

[silverfox]

Dear Hari:
This is very interesting story! Please keep us informed of the developments. Is 'Karuthu' a Tamil magazine?

 

[kudumi]

Saraasari Manithan.

An average person upholds tradition. He may or may not be in traditional professions.
Even the sons and daughters of Pagutharivuvavthis are known to have a vedic marriage after saisfying their parents.
I was told vatican relaxed the thaali, bindhi, and othere ceremonies after convertion because most of the ladies were not willing to give up these.
So many people are used to seeing certain people and certain roles and are comfortable with that.

Legends of Tanjore big temple are mostly related to a king, with hands stained in blood(figuratively- for gounda's sake) installing a statue, thereby not following the tradition.

Lot of elders have told me that meddling with temple tradition leads to adverse effects and I think we as responsible citizens are partly responsible for not voting and instead allowing all this to happen.

I see the current problem under discussion as more as "tradition vs non tradition", and camouflaging it as "brahmin vs non brahmins" to gain political mileage.
Hari's posting might indicate the trend.

 

[gopu]

all castes to become archakas

i was recently in srirangam temple where big display of banners for archakas
traning course initiated by temple administration as one year programme. i was told by temple staff totally 1279 applications were received throughout tamilnadu wherein srirangam temple received 3 applications only. here all archakas and pattars in vaishnavitic temples are coming under hereditary, generation after generation based on respective agamas.for example srirangam temple since the days of sri ramanujar for more than 1000 years
follow pancharathra agama based on sri ramanujar direction which are generally practiced by vadakalai section of srivaishnavam although temple
ritual practices are controlled by thenkalai section of srivaishnavam.hence due to their earlier legal fights up to supreme court,all respective hereditary
archakars/pattars got their rights/pattayam legalised in supreme court.
therefore government can not appoint any priest in most of the vaishnavitic
temples thanks to the earlier fights between sub-sections during early 1940s
to 1960s. only saiva temples excluding chidambram temple (dikshadars control ritual practice in this temple) all remaining saiva temples are more prone to this changes initiated by dmk government. would invite other members input of valuable information regarding this.

regds/

 

[NARAS]

sirs- whatever be the case, even a fool knows that, in a secular democracy, a govt. cannot dictate terms in private domains of people. t.nadu is a fool's paradise. so naturally,the yellow shawlist is having a field day!!

 

[GGR]

I think this is a brilliant program. :first: Up until now, what has the Brahmin or Hindu community done to the down-trodden or the people who are considered "shoodras" ? Nothing!! All we have seen in the last 200 or so years is that the Muslims and Christians come into India and take the land, convert people into their castes.

Look closely as to what Hindus have done here? Have we gone into far off places to villages and helped other people in need of a help/medication/spirituality? Yes in the times of Ramanuja and Shankara-acharya, but sadly not after that. What this Govt is doing now was done by Ramanuja and Shankara back in those days. Isn't that why Ramanuja's teacher send him out of his ashram? because he wanted everyone to go to heaven?

I grew up with my mother who was orthodox Brahmin and my father who was orthodox to a point, but never stepped into that grey area where religion lost reason.

This has what happened since 200 BC isn't it? Reading Manu-smrithi and Arthashastra, you will know that what started out as a structure in a kingdom was grossly abused and over taken by pride, jealousy and a lust for power.

If I had it my way, I would love to teach each and everyone of the Indians about Veda and Vedic life, Maybe then we will have oneness in our country and maybe then, we will be a better country than others.

Can each and everyone of you in this forum, who say that this is bad, really and truly say that they are 100% a Brahmin? Not possible, I can only trace back my ancestors 16 generations behind me to be all brahmins.

Yes while doing sandhya-vandana, we tell which 3 or 4 saint's family we belong to, but are we sure that there is no "non-Brahmin" blood in us? Come off it.

Arthashastra tells or depicts how a Brahmin can have non-Brahmin wife and how children born out of those wed-locks are treated differently, but almost have the same stature of brahmins.

In short, as a Brahmin, I support this effort by our Govt. As this is the only step to save Hindus from being converted to Christians. Please see how Christians are bribing the poor with money, rice and clothes to convert to Christianity.

Please consider this as my views and please do not take words and sentences out of context or get angry over it.

I love my country, my religion and am very proud of it. But most of all, I am proud to be Human.

-GGR​

 

[NARAS]

sirs - it is not the business of govt. in a secular democracy to 'enforce' 'equality' in what the whole world knows is a private domain. how hindus should conduct their places of worship within four walls of temples, is not for governments to say. if this is allowed, yellow shawlist could tomorrow even go to the extent of fixing dates and times for husbands and wives to copulate!!

 

[GGR]

Naras, I understand what you are saying and I agree with you 100% that Govt has no business in Religion, but in this current time, we are seeing how different Govts around the world are doing things with religion, which are effecting us in the wrong way.

Example: French Govt tried to abolish bhurka wearing females in Public and in Schools. UK Govt did the a similar thing in their schools. (These 2 happened in early to mid 2006)

USA Govt., which thinks that it is the best in the world, has always said to be a Christianity based Govt. It is very subtle, but you will notice all the hoopla over the new Presidensial candidate who is a Muslim. Infact US folks cannot fathom a Woman President.

But my whole point was that someone needs to keep the hindu population intact and keep the future generations Hindu friendly and Hindu loving. I know that having shoodras as priests is a little off the chart, as they might not be following the clean rules of living, but teaching them the Veda or the Vedic ways of living is not bad.

Naras, I have no idea what "yellow shawlist" means. As per fixing dates and times for husbands to copulate, I have not heard of it in Hindu religion or culture. I always thought that it was more of a Orthodox Jew tradition.

-GGR

I am proud to be an Indian, but prouder to be Human.

 

[NARAS]

sirs- French, UK goverments did not interfere with the way their citizens behave inside places of worship. the regulations they enforced were outside places of worship. the t.nadu govt. is interfering in private, civil domain of citizens, which is nothing short of primitive barbarism. this is tantamount to dictating when a husband and wife should have contact with each other.

2. let non bramins learn vedas. no problem. let them be appointed as priests in temples not following agamas. but in temples following agamas, only hereditary service of priesthood is allowed. even bramins outside priestly class cannot become priests in orthodox temples.

3. Yellow shawlist means the karunanidhi.

 

[mrifan]

2 mrifans?

I go away for a few days and what do I find? No, this is a fake avatar, I am the real mrifan

rajiv.gunja (Online) vbmenu_register("postmenu_6415", true);
Junior Member

 

[GGR]

Suresh, I do agree with your points that the Govt has no business dictating or do anything in the matter of religion, but you are forgetting that politics and religion has always gone together, may it be 300 BC (Mauriyan Empire) or be it 2006 AD (Modern world, Developed Country USA).

When I said it was awesome that the Govt is doing something, I meant that none of us or the major Brahmin community/ashramas/matams have done anything to propogate or teach our culture.

Tell me Suresh, what have we done towards the MTV watching, Kambli following generation? We glorify film stars who rarely protray the Indian or Hindu culture we are so concerned about. Yet we idolise each and every one of those movie actors.

Why is that we never do anything, but criticise someone who does something about it, even though it is not their job to do it? I am appreciating the Govt, may it be yellow shawlist or the fat lady with a bribery problem, for taking steps towards enhancing the down trodden and starting to push Hinduism in a world where almost 30 to 40% of young genration Indians would rather says "jesus" while something bad happens than say "rama"

Please also note that I have no interest in politics nor do I like the present or the previous Govt in TN.

-GGR

As per fixing dates for copulation between a husband and wife, please know that, that is an Orthodox Jew custom and they would be hurt if we called their tradition barberic.

 

[NARAS]

sirs - in a modern democracy, it is certainly barbaric for a govt . to interfere in private, civil domains of its citizens. this is a blatant violation of constitution and law of land. even the motive of the yellow shawlist is ulterior, as his main aim is to drive bramins away from places of worship. this plan is born out of inferiority complex and jealousy.
in fact the very definition of secularism is 'separation of religion from politics'. by dictating terms as to how rituals should be conducted inside places of worship, the yellow shawlist is poaching into the prerogative of believers. it is like usurping wife of somebody else, knowingly.

had india been a hindu rashtra, then this move can be justified by tearfully arguing that 'more non bramins will come into hindu fold now.' but since india is a secular democracy, this clearly means govts. have no business poking their noses into civil, religious affairs.

as for fixing dates for copulation between husband and wife, any person of any community can do it in a democracy, if it is voluntary. if it is compelled, then it is the very definition of barbarism.

 

[KRS]

USA Govt., which thinks that it is the best in the world, has always said to be a Christianity based Govt. It is very subtle, but you will notice all the hoopla over the new Presidensial candidate who is a Muslim. Infact US folks cannot fathom a Woman President.

Dear Sri rajiv.gunja Ji,

Since I ahave been living in the US for almost 37 years, I am taking this opportunity to correct a couple of points in your statements.

If the 'hoopla' you are talking about is over Mr. Obama, he is a self declared Christian. Though his African father was a Muslim and his mother was an atheist, he says he has embraced Christianity.

And, actually, a lot of political pundits hold the view that Senator Clinton has more than a 50-50 chance of becoming the next President!

One thing about this country is that the ever happening change is built in to the culture. This is why, wrongly or rightly, Capitalism more or less drives the changes. And people adapt!

Pranams,
KRS

 

[GGR]

Suresh,
I agree with your view points a 100%. I am only concerned about knowledge of hinduism being imparted to all. If there are ulterior motives behind the Govt's acts, then it has to be stopped or voted against.

-GGR

 

[GGR]

KRS,
I am happy that you have been able to stay in the US for that long. It would mean that you would have seen how much the mentality of the Americans have changed in the last 37 years. I beleive 37 years ago, US was not as open as it is now and I have heard a fair share of horror and good stories from my friends (Black and vietnamese) Oddly enough, I have not heard such stories from my Indian friends who have lived here that long. I call them stories as I did not view them personally and I have not been in this world for that long to comprehend the complex situations of that time.

You might be technically or politically correct about Obama, but there is loop hole in that theory. See the concern that many Americans are under-read or less worldly as many outside this country would think they are. The fact, that the name Obama is so close to the name Osama makes him disliked by many in US (mid-west).

See unlike many non-americans think, US is divided into 3 portions, East, West and the mid-west. When we pull up the Red / Blue states, most of the mid-west states are Red and they all supported Bush and his ill-gotten war. How many do you think from these state will know the difference between Osama or Obama ? This was a major debate concern on MSNBC, John Stewart show and CNN. I will not mention Fox as I dont consider that network worthy enough to watch.

This is the main reason why Obama has no standing in the race with Hillary, even though he is very well read and will be a good President. The reason why polls show that Hillary has a 50-50 chance is because, that she is lesser of the 2 evil that people have got to choose on.

I might not have been in the US for 30+ years, but been here long enough to know Grey from black.

Since our friendly banter has no relevance to the topic on hand, please send me a private message/emai if you want to contiue our talks and views.

-GGR

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri rajiv-gunja Ji,

You raise some interesting points. Please give me a day or two - I will send you a private message.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Looking in the right places?

Dear Sri Rajiv Gunja,

This is an interesting and a provocative statement. Are you sure you have considered efforts such as Shankar Netralaya and the "reaching out to Dalits" activites of the Kanchi mutt (Not to mention other contributions headed by spiritualists (thus Hindus in general Brahmins included) - e.g., Sai Baba's hospitals, Chinmaya Mission schools, Ramakrishna Mission schools, Sri Sri Ravishankar's Art of Living and Amritanadamayi Ma's multivarious social services etc?). So yes they HAVE gone to far off places to establish schools and hospitals and other social service activities.

Does it seem plausible to you that Hindu way of living is not based on advertising because of which we do not know of the several great efforts by individual members of the community?

Are you sure that the views you have presented are not what mass media would have you believe?

As far as specific Brahminical efforts in Tamil Nadu are concerned a few good examples come to mind - Bharatiyar, U.V. Swaminatha Iyer and C.V. Rajagopalachari. Of course two of these thinkers were social reformists.

But if you are asking - did Brahmins ever bother to "teach" the Vedas to other castes? - that would be a complicated question because every caste had a right to its own kind of "education" and it was not any caste's business to interfere with the education/knowledge base of another caste. Afterall the carpenters and weavers and temple sculptors never stood on top of a roof and "taught" the rest of the world how to do these things.

We don't have proof to say that every member of the Brahmin community of yesteryears was a scoundrel, rogue or a rascal that did not want divine knowledge to be shared or passed on to others. As long as we don't have such proof it seems fair or plausible to assume that at least some members of the community assumed responsibility for sharing knowledge to those that sought it (in fact the Gurukula system was open to Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaishyas) and offered counsel to those that needed to know what to do in their lives (which may or may not have anything to do with Vedic knowledge), which may have included shudras.

Politicians/mass media have taken a string of anomalies and have made us believe that that was the ONLY way the community lived at one time. We don't have enough research to illustrate the details of that historic period. In the absence of such data we have to assume that Brahmins were like other human beings in every era of society - some of them were on the good end of the spectrum and others were at the bad end. We have to assume that those at the good end did what was considered good at that time - i.e., adopt a service mentality and impart counsel and guidance to those who came to them for help (it is plausible to assume that they quoted vedas in their explanations to others).

I think this is a brilliant program. :first: Up until now, what has the Brahmin or Hindu community done to the down-trodden or the people who are considered "shoodras" ? Nothing!! All we have seen in the last 200 or so years is that the Muslims and Christians come into India and take the land, convert people into their castes. ​

Look closely as to what Hindus have done here? Have we gone into far off places to villages and helped other people in need of a help/medication/spirituality? Yes in the times of Ramanuja and Shankara-acharya, but sadly not after that. ​

 

[silverfox]

Dear Hari:
Any new developments in this case? ThaNKS!

Read in Karuthu & I quote

Quote :

In Tiruvallur district, there is a village Narasingapuram. Till some years back a vaishnavite temple (belonging to Vijayanagara period) was there in a dilapidated condition. A man (Madhavan battacharya is his present name) from Mudaliyar community, -who has learnt 'Pancharatra agama' from a man "Nam pillai" (He belonged to Naidu caste) for 3 years -managed to restore the said Sri Lakshmi Narasimhar temple and has been doing everyday prayers and priestly rituals. Now that temple is gaining fame.
Narasingapuram village has a strong D.M.K. back-ground. Many mudaliyars of that village are staunch D.M.K. supporters. Now those dominant Mudaliyar families doesn't want a non-brahmin (that too their own community man) to do the job of priest. They expect that only a brahmin should do it and they try to oust that non-brahmin priest, Madhavan battacharya. Now he went to HR&CE commissioner and complained in this regard. He was guided by activists of Indian Peoples' Front.
What the Periyar devotees are going to do now? Do they dare to hold a meeting in that village and speak against the Dominant Mudaliyars who try to oust that priest from Mudaliyar community?

Unquote

 

[kunjuppu]

dONT KNOW WHEN WILL PEOPLE LIKE U WILL CHANGE. wHENEVER THE gOVT OF TAMIL NADU DECIDES TO DO SOME GOOD THING FOR TAMILS U INTERFERE. WHATS UR PROBLM? WHY R U GUYS SO SUSPICIOUS ABT ANYTHING WHICH GOVT DOES. ANYWAYS U HAVENT TAKEN ANY LICENSE TO RUN SRI VAISHNAVISM. EVERYBODY HAS HIS OWN LIFE. ITS HIS WISH AS TO HOW HE WANTS TO LIVE IT. WE LIVE IN GLOBALISED SOCIETY. tHE WHOLE WORLD IS A GLOBAL VILLAGE ACCESSABLE FROM A CLICK OF A BUTTON. CULTURE IS BOUND TO CHANGE WITH THE ADVENT OF GLOBALISATION. THOSE WHO DONT CHANGE WILL BE LEFT BEHIND.

ramanujan,

i am with you. there is no explanation for ignorance.

 

[senthil]

Up until now, what has the Brahmin or Hindu community done to the down-trodden or the people who are considered "shoodras" ? Nothing!! All we have seen in the last 200 or so years is that the Muslims and [COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important]Christians[/COLOR] come into India and take the land, convert people into their castes.

Let me list out the service of brahmins to our society..

1. I am from vellala community, and our region is rain fed. (vaanam paartha boomi).. on those days (before anti-brahminism started), our people used to go to a local brahmin to ask for the right time to sow the seeds. The brahmin will maintain a pachanga, and prescribe a date for the farmers. This kind of planetory based farming is now done as "Bio-Dynamic farming" in germany. ([/COLOR]www.demeter.net/)
Another purpose is that in rain fed areas, there would be seasonal rains at varied intervals. The seeds has to be sown at right time, that when it germinates, the next rain will give it enough water to further grow.. If seeds are sown at in appropriate time, the germinated seeds will die down before it received next rain..

2. As per dharampal's books (www.dharampal.net), there were more than 1 lakh schools in madras presidency alone during 1800. This data was collected by britishers. And most of the schools were run by brahmins. and in most schools, students from all jaatis studied. the maximum % of brahmins students was around 30%..
Comparatively, there were only 15000 schools in england at that time, and most of them are sunday schools for 2 to 3 hrs.. The missionaries, copied various methods of teaching from here and implemented there in england.. eg, the system of byhearting mathematical tables in a musical way.. (onnu onnu rendu.. rendu rendu naalu .... etc)

3. The brahmins managed the temples, and were responsible for daily annadhanams happening in the temple. This annadhanam is a form of social security, where poor people will resort to, when they have no food to cook in their house.

4. The brahmins are the india's backbone. Because, it is they who has integrated diverse communities of our country. The brahmins of the north has to come to south for studying, and brahmins of south go to north for pilgrimage and for studying.

5. The brahmins developed the karnatic sangeetham (bagawathar), which is the base for most of the music in the film industry.

6. The brahmins are the foremost freedom fighters, both in the revolutionary camps and in the gandhiji camp.. azad, subramanya siva,aurobindo etc..

7. The brahmins developed ayurveda and created an excellent system, where the medical practictioners gave free treatment to the people, contrary to the present allopathic doctors who demand exhorbinant fees.


The reason why we are occupied is many fold. But the primary reason is that we did not have colonial attitude.. The britishers did not come and invade militarily.. rather, they requested for trading from indian kings, and got permission for the same. For the first 100 years, (from 16th century onwards), they were mere traders, in various cities in india.. so as many other european nations.. Then they interfered in indian political affairs, supporting one against other.. and slowly, they enslaved the whole nation.. it was like inserting needle in a banana.. When indian kings realised this, it was too late, and their uprisals failed in 1857..

To describe in simple words, the british and other european countries were pirates and looting group.. the british had extensive network with pirate groups to loot wealth from other european nations like portugese.. they smuggled opium in to china, to balance their trade with china.. (china only exported items and there was nothing imported from britain)..

So, when whole nation indulges in illegal & barbaric practices, its natural, any nation will succumb.. its not just india.. the whole world were colonised, because, its only europeans who invented colonialism which others were not even aware of..


The culture of self-defaming, badmouthing ourselves is the bane of india.. its a sign of self-defeating, pessimistic society..

 

[senthil]

Up until now, what has the Brahmin or Hindu community done to the down-trodden or the people who are considered "shoodras" ? Nothing!! All we have seen in the last 200 or so years is that the Muslims and [COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important]Christians[/COLOR] come into India and take the land, convert people into their castes.

Let me list out the service of brahmins to our society..

1. I am from vellala community, and our region is rain fed. (vaanam paartha boomi).. on those days (before anti-brahminism started), our people used to go to a local brahmin to ask for the right time to sow the seeds. The brahmin will maintain a pachanga, and prescribe a date for the farmers. This kind of planetory based farming is now done as "Bio-Dynamic farming" in germany. ([/COLOR]www.demeter.net/)
Another purpose is that in rain fed areas, there would be seasonal rains at varied intervals. The seeds has to be sown at right time, that when it germinates, the next rain will give it enough water to further grow.. If seeds are sown at in appropriate time, the germinated seeds will die down before it received next rain..

2. As per dharampal's books (DHARAMPAL's India), there were more than 1 lakh schools in madras presidency alone during 1800. This data was collected by britishers. And most of the schools were run by brahmins. and in most schools, students from all jaatis studied. the maximum % of brahmins students was around 30%..
Comparatively, there were only 15000 schools in england at that time, and most of them are sunday schools for 2 to 3 hrs.. The missionaries, copied various methods of teaching from here and implemented there in england.. eg, the system of byhearting mathematical tables in a musical way.. (onnu onnu rendu.. rendu rendu naalu .... etc)

3. The brahmins managed the temples, and were responsible for daily annadhanams happening in the temple. This annadhanam is a form of social security, where poor people will resort to, when they have no food to cook in their house.

4. The brahmins are the india's backbone. Because, it is they who has integrated diverse communities of our country. The brahmins of the north has to come to south for studying, and brahmins of south go to north for pilgrimage and for studying.

5. The brahmins developed the karnatic sangeetham (bagawathar), which is the base for most of the music in the film industry.

6. The brahmins are the foremost freedom fighters, both in the revolutionary camps and in the gandhiji camp.. azad, subramanya siva,aurobindo etc..

7. The brahmins developed ayurveda and created an excellent system, where the medical practictioners gave free treatment to the people, contrary to the present allopathic doctors who demand exhorbinant fees.


The reason why we are occupied is many fold. But the primary reason is that we did not have colonial attitude.. The britishers did not come and invade militarily.. rather, they requested for trading from indian kings, and got permission for the same. For the first 100 years, (from 16th century onwards), they were mere traders, in various cities in india.. so as many other european nations.. Then they interfered in indian political affairs, supporting one against other.. and slowly, they enslaved the whole nation.. it was like inserting needle in a banana.. When indian kings realised this, it was too late, and their uprisals failed in 1857..

To describe in simple words, the british and other european countries were pirates and looting group.. the british had extensive network with pirate groups to loot wealth from other european nations like portugese.. they smuggled opium in to china, to balance their trade with china.. (china only exported items and there was nothing imported from britain)..

So, when whole nation indulges in illegal & barbaric practices, its natural, any nation will succumb.. its not just india.. the whole world were colonised, because, its only europeans who invented colonialism which others were not even aware of..


The culture of self-defaming, badmouthing ourselves is the bane of india.. its a sign of self-defeating, pessimistic society..

 

[R. Ramanujan]

I want to share a very interesting comment that a North Indian temple priest told me regarding the vedas-
वेदों में ही जीवन का असली रहस्य छुपा हुआ है . That is "The real secret of Life is in Vedas."
As such I would be criminal to disallow some ppl from gaining this knowledge.
I'm for Vedic Studies for all hindus. Wat abt u bro/sis?

 

[kunjuppu]

ramanujan, i am with you..

 

[R. Ramanujan]

Thank you So much sir.