Vaidheega sambaavanai

[RAMACHANDRANICF]

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Sir, Now a days the sambaavanai for common rituals are very high.It is not much if they qualified. The amature vadhyaars in cities Without vedha adhyaanam and knowledge demanding more for simple rituals and also finish it with urgency to attend some other. Now my question is how poor people can perform their rituls.

 

[r_venkataraman]

Sir,
Your assessment is true. Though in our forefather's time Vadhyars were having income for hand to mouth. Now the cost of living is high. Inspite of it they charge exhorbitant and not sincere in their rituals. If some one do not know about the rituals they will repeat the same manthra to keep the time and finish it hastely. We have to protect the vedam and riturals but demand by the Sastrigal is exhorbitant R.Venkataraman.

 

[Sabesan Narayanaswami]

The cost of living,shortage of qualified vadhyars are some of the reasons for this unreasonable demand at times.However no excuse can be given for half hearted, slip-shod performances.They need to maintain a minimum standard of living.May be if they have a Vaidheegas Association they can discuss this threadbare and come out with their problems.We also need to be more liberal these days

 

[sanki]

'Vaidhigai Dakshanai'

Dear Learned Members :

I think it's time for us to initiate & form an association for Vedic Guru's who perform domestic functions at our house. As of now they are knit only thro informal & personal interactions. I urge the learned members to unite them thro some association, standardise the rates for Ganapathy Homam, Navagraha Homam, Vaasthu Homam, Sudharshana Homam, Chandi Homam, to name a few. The formation of association will also help the Vedic Scholars/Vadhyars to have some sustained monthly income, as the forum could ensure equal opportunity based on their knowledge and skills. As of now though they are self regulated, this could bring in some standardisation and also help those people who are not having direct touch with 'Vadhyars', as most of them have moved out from city to the other on account of professional pursuits.

Any other suggestion is also welcome..

thanks

Sanki

 

[nnarayan26]

'Vaidhigai Dakshanai'

Dear Members

I also accept the suggestion that an association be formed for standardisation of rates for various Pooja's and Homams . However I would like to add one more point which I feel is happening practically in all households. In almost all familes due to modern and fast lifestyles the concept of our culture and values are fast dwindling . This results in reduction of income for family priests / vadhyars . A liitle introspection by all members will create a concensus amongst us that apart from an annual shrardham or say a Poonal function we hardly conduct any ritulas at our place . So collectively if you calculate , the source of revenue for vadhyar's / priests have come down ,hence when they get an opportunity they charge exhorbitantly and try to compensate the revenue loss.

I hope that all respected members would agree that Tarpanam is performed by at least one member in each family . Now if every person who performs Tarpanam at Home sets aside Rs 25 as Vadhyar daksniha every month then it becomes Rs 300 anually , if this becomes a collective phenomena and if the same accumalated Dakshina is handed to their respective family vadhyars , then the same becomes an assured income for the vadhyar concerned . This kind of an exercise over along time can help reducing the pressure on vadhyars as far as earning income is concerned and they may reduce charging exhorbitant dakshina


Thanks & Regards

N.Narayan

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Namassadhasae.

I fully agree with Shri Sharma. If we have real sradhdhai in the ritual and we know the basic manthras ourselves, atleast vaidheegals will have no other go than to conduct the event with the format in which it should be conducted. This will increase the morale of both the vadhyars and the gruhasthas.

In an earlier thread also, I have expressed this view. Let us all try to be a bit more qualified. When we perform pitru karyams like annual sradhdham, in places like flats, each one may help others and each one gets helped, by accepting the asanams for Visvedevar and pitru sthanam. If I know the sradhdha karma, in the format applicable to my family, I need not look for a very qualified person. Even the above kind of gruhasthas can also be engaged for that sthanam, in which case they all are only witness for the event, which is sufficient. Because we cannot do it ourselves, we are engaging a vadhyar. I do and view this way, since I know the formats. Definitely this approach will increase sradhdha for both vaidheegas and gruhasthas and will avoid the possible lamentation about the character of vadhyars, the exorbitant charges etc. Some may be under the impression that taking food in that sthanam is papam or something. It is a high dharma in fact, if we help others this way. Chanting some more gayatris will clear this negative. I welcome the suggestion of Shri Sharma to make us bit qualified in this direction.

If we have the real interest, there will definitely be persons interested to educate on these matters and vidyarthis to learn. Brahmin Associations, websites, magazines, heads of community mutts - all should focus importance on this aspect.

I, for one, intend to do this kind of service, after my retirement.


"அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே!" _ திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ்

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

One should have shraddai to learn the mantrams for nithya pooja, amavasya tharpanam,shraaddam etc.Unlike olden days,lot of avenues/sources are available to learn thanks to advancement in the multimedia.If one has an inclination to learn,he can always do that and perfect his learning with the help of learned pundit.Time is not far off when it is going to be very difficult,to get a vadyar to perform all these things.I am afraid in this present time,when the youngsters don't have time even to have their food properly, they will care for all these things.
S.Sridharan

 

[Ramacchandran]

There are Some manthrams that are to be presented by Married Sastrigal, some manthras are to be chanted by aged satrigals.

For instance in Sashtiaptha Poorthy, the meaning of the manthra,

the man who completed 60 years of age, need to take care for his health and quotes about the diseases that he may get and how to over come it.

There are three occasions the man is sitting for Upadesam
1) Brahma Upadesam
2) Grihasya Upadesam (Marriage Cermony)
3) Sahtiapththa Poorthy.

Bramha Upadesam all of you know chanting of Gayathri for a child at the age of 7, the gayathri which minds regulates Mind and body so that the boy concentrate on his study
Grahsya Updesam when entering a family life

Sashti apththa poorthy a person should give up his selfish and devote his time to others welfare and guide youngsters, and learns how to unite the Mind and body and separate them from Soul, the athman.

The man at the age of 60, assures the soul that he will hear the order and obey the order of the soul .

The actual ceremony in Sahtiaptha Poorthy was 12 days in 1700- 1800.
In which the grihastan is to retire from his family life and takes vanaprastha. That means he should take classes to youngsters. He is asked to take few herbals that will keep him fit for rest of his life.
He assures his Dharmapathni, "So long in our life, with ourselfishness we quarreled with each other, more time spent time in searching for money, skipped so many rituals for various reasons, and you accompanied me all through this life. During menses and menopus time we might have crossed so many sins and committed mistakes and I apologies for the mistake I have committed. Dear I assure you from this day I wish to live for you and let us guide our wards"

It also quotes about the Uterus and inner parts of the woman body, the diseases she may get at the old age and the Herbals that are to be used to over come that.

In this Some manthras are very erotic and nasty and if we see the meaning we will really appreciate the person who navigated this in 13-14th century.

These manthras are to be chanted by a married Prohith only.

But I had seen many Brahmacharis chant this Manthras.

In an Santhi homam, The first night ceremony for getting a good child the Manthras mentions about the herbals that are to be used for getting a qualified and knowledgeable child and positions of mating.

This also should be chanted by a married priest who has a child.

But all the rituals are carried out and no one cares.

The Vedic schools run by madams are also not guide them properly.

The Vedic School alone can have a control over them.

All these are coming under Dathathreya Kavasam.

 

[RVR]

Thanks Sri Ramacchandran Sir,

Thought provoking article.

Very good

All the best

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

It has come to be a fashion to find fault with Vadhyaars.

I am sorry that these critics just want to blurt out something out of jealousy or their ignorance or just an interest to gossip.

Even in a similar thread in this site I had voiced similar sentiments.

Vaadhyaars are supposed to be our spiritual Guru. But just because some persons feel they can guage anything with money, they start blaming vaadhyaars
, wrongly thinking that vaadhyars are their slaves.

Why can’t any of these critics become vaadhyar and perform ceremonies at a low cost or just free . After doing so and establishing so , let them come to the roof top and coo..

Has anybody the statistics as to how many poor people could not conduct the rituals just because of vaadhyaars high fees?

No vaadhyaars forces anybody to do rituals with him. Any one is free not to perform any rituals. No law prevents him. Then why should they blame vadhyar? Why the critics themselves or their children not become vadhyar ?

Who is the right person to fix vadhyar fees? The same person cannot fix the school fees of his child.He cannot fix the hospital expenses.

Both the above are emergencies or essentials.By not able to control those expenses, one gets exploited.But nobody has complaints.

There is no vaideeka emergency. So no one is exploited. If one voluntarily falls victim, he is to blame. Why can’t somebody expose a greedy vadhyar?
If any vadhyar charges exhorbitantly naturally he will lose business.

My grand mother used to say that “do not perform any post death ritual for me if you are not voluntary feeling it , and if it is going to be unaffordable for you. You may definitely cremate me ,otherwise the stink is for you only to suffer”. So rituals are just voluntary.

Can anybody do self surgery?Then why should he do sradham by himself? To save a pittance? My dear critics,please come to the light by declaring yourself that you are ready from tomorrow to sit as pitru sthana brahmanan, or you will perform so and so ritual for so and so price. Then let us discuss further.

( I am sorry, this topic somehow provokes me . I am not able to stand such deliberate vilification of our own brethren,many of whom overexhaust theselves and sacrifice their many pleasures for the community’s sake falling prey for many jokes and ridicules.)


Greetings

 

[RVR]

There are some restrictions for those who go for Shrardham engagement. Now a days, Vadhyar comes only for performing the function and doesn't go beyond that.

Those who come for taking food are normally very poor and may be managing with this income only. If some of us take up that role, they may be deprived of their income.

At the same time, I doubt very much whether they follow the rules prescribed for them of not taking food else where and doesn't take food in the night.

Better discuss the pros and cons of both and decide.

All the best

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

There are some restrictions for those who go for Shrardham engagement. Now a days, Vadhyar comes only for performing the function and doesn't go beyond that.

Those who come for taking food are normally very poor and may be managing with this income only. If some of us take up that role, they may be deprived of their income.

I am with you in this, Sri RVR. By this benevelonce, a few poor are getting fed, which most of us are not able to do. It becomes a mutual benefit to vadhyar and them.

At the same time, I doubt very much whether they follow the rules prescribed for them of not taking food else where and doesn't take food in the night.

Once we have donated something, why should we bother about that? It is none of our concern.Who knows, God may bless them better than us!! We don't have a right to do so.

Better discuss the pros and cons of both and decide.

All the best

Greetings

 

[kunjuppu]

Surya,

I am with you in sentiments.

By and large, I suspect, that the patrons have not moved to the 21st century in terms of vadhyar sambhavanai. It used to pain me a lot, to see my relatives, throwing away money on kalyana mandapams and such, and fight with the vadhyar over a few rupees.

Our own aathu vadhyar, whom we kept happy, was a failed crook in his earlier profession. He worked in ranchi in the railway workshop, was caught pilfering, fired. Hence he came back to madras, and a senior ganapadigal took him under his wing.

It was always understood, that the ganapadigal would come for the big functions, but amavasai tharpanam and such was left to this little guy. A very satisfactory arrangement.

Having said that, in 2000, when I went to kasi/gaya, I handed over a lumpsum 50,000 ruppees to one ganapadigal and saw the entire money go into this pocket. Nothing went for dhanams. So there are crooks, who take advantage.

Having said the above, I think, we need to nurture our aathu vadhyar in the same way we respect the doctor, dentist etc. our aathu vadhyar was poor, and so on occasions like deepavali, we used to give some extra cash for him to tide over the season. He was also diabetic, and we used arrange cheap medicine.

I think, it is high time, the vadhyars formed a union, and came up with rates. There are accredition programs. And based on those, we can have the rates for the functions. These must be the minimum and hopefully the patrons would shell out more.

As a community, we are tight fisted, when giving money to vadhyars or charity. Not for weddings. I think something is wrong here in our thinking.

Surya, I have one bone to pick. I can understand your anger, but should you term folks who don’t agree with you as ‘pseudos’ or ‘nouveau riche’? name calling never works. It only degrades the source of those words. I wish you had written your note without name callings.

Thank you.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri Kunjuppu,

I bow to your mature counsel.I had gone back and done suitable editing.

Thanks for that interlude.

Tks & Regds

 

[kunjuppu]

surya

 

[RVR]

I am not against vadyars or persons accompanying them for meagre amount of the day of bread winning....and defenitely we never commit such mistakes, throwing sand on their food, and taking part on ourselves....

I just told, coz in areas like ours, we cud many times face problems on this... and at the last minute receive calls for pithru stanams and visvedhevars.....

Based on friendship and communal brotherhood, we take permssion from our head of office, and run to the function and participate....

Is that wrong....???? i feel its not so...

Comments please.....

Not at all wrong. Vadhyar some time fails and stepping in to save the situation is a great service.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

I
Based on friendship and communal brotherhood, we take permssion from our head of office, and run to the function and participate....

Is that wrong....???? i feel its not so...

Comments please.....

swami,

you are absolutely correct. nothing wrong.

there are many sentiments involved, and i think, we err when we generalize situations, and in the process, look upon certain obligations, as depriving vadhyars of a meal.

not sure, how many folks are that poor these days, that they cannot afford even a meal. but that is a different issue.

i agree with swami, that we should call anyone we want for swami elai and such stuff, without thinking too deeply.

thank you.

 

[Ramacchandran]

To My knowledge only Vedic schools which trains the Sastrigal should advice them so it is better to take the issues to the Vedic schools run by Maths and so.

 

[Ramacchandran]

In my Message I never mentioned any fees collected by the Vaadyars. I quoted about the Bramahchari Vadyar sitting in a Santhi homa Firstnight Cermony chanting a manthra he didn't experienced. I am telling you it quotes about the possitions of mating. Do you expect a brahmachari to chant a manthra of this class.
If a mistake is happened in Spelling how it will affect the newly wedded couple? Have you realised?
It is Like nithyatvam and Nidhrathvam.

Secondly if you spell Gayathri Prochodhyath instead of Prochayath you will get skin diseases like ring worm.

Do you know that?

See I want to gain knowledge only by asking questions and we can also enlighten others too.

I wish our forum to contact the Vedic Schools run by mathas and other get clarification and justify the same. If any doubt arises on the performance of Vadyars let us discuss.

Now since the Vadyaars are professionals and few of them skipping manthras and we may satisfy ourselves that God will answer them, OK if any one pay extra money will they change their attitude and say No for yes and Yes for No?
Since they are getting money?

 

[kunjuppu]

ramac,

i will have great problem with my god, if my thoughts and intentions are not listened to, but my words.

i can talk in tamil and english to my god. i hope he would understand it.

if i repeat something in another language, which the orginator himself is not familiar with, and on hearing, i hear wrong, and further mutilate the word, should my god penalize me?

i think, it is better to look at our faith and god, not as someone whom, if he ask, and ask right, will grant us favours. and if not, we get punished.

personally, to me God, is a source of support and strength, in times of trouble, and an object of gratifcation, when times are good.

to expect god to be the source of your happiness and sorrows, is, i think, is putting copping out of life's responsibilities.

it is better to say the prayers in tamil, as then there is not doubt, either in your mind or in the vadhyar's mind, and perhpas, in your god's mind too.

i find it ridiculous, that by saying wrong pronounciations, one is going to be blessed with worms in the stomach or blinded eyes.

thank you.

 

[suvarchas]

ramac,

i will have great problem with my god, if my thoughts and intentions are not listened to, but my words.

i can talk in tamil and english to my god. i hope he would understand it.

if i repeat something in another language, which the orginator himself is not familiar with, and on hearing, i hear wrong, and further mutilate the word, should my god penalize me?

i think, it is better to look at our faith and god, not as someone whom, if he ask, and ask right, will grant us favours. and if not, we get punished.

personally, to me God, is a source of support and strength, in times of trouble, and an object of gratifcation, when times are good.

to expect god to be the source of your happiness and sorrows, is, i think, is putting copping out of life's responsibilities.

it is better to say the prayers in tamil, as then there is not doubt, either in your mind or in the vadhyar's mind, and perhpas, in your god's mind too.

i find it ridiculous, that by saying wrong pronounciations, one is going to be blessed with worms in the stomach or blinded eyes.

thank you.

Dear Sir,
Your anguish that why God should penalise for making a mistake in uttering some mantra is right in a limited perspective.However whenever a ritual or any method is prescribed,we need to follow that lest we make a mistake we may not get the results that we aspire for.Kanchi Mahasvamigal had explained in his discourses that we may devise an aesthetically superior letter box and post letters for our satisfaction,but the letter may not reach as we need to follow certain rules when it comes to action.Hence when we have faith in asystem we need to follow rules or abstain totally

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

My notings in blue

In my Message I never mentioned any fees collected by the Vaadyars. I quoted about the Bramahchari Vadyar sitting in a Santhi homa Firstnight Cermony chanting a manthra he didn't experienced. I am telling you it quotes about the possitions of mating. Do you expect a brahmachari to chant a manthra of this class.

I am reminded of a story I heard. Vedvyasa was passing by a river
and some young women were taking bath in the river. The moment they saw Vedavyasa, they wrapped their body with whatever clothes they could find. Seeing this Vedavyasa asked them why they are shy in front of an old man like him , when they were not taking any efforts to cover themselves just a little before when his son Suka had passed by the same way.

The young women answered that Suka did not differentiate them as
young women,bathing, but was quite oblivious to that.

Not to say, vedavyasa felt ashamded of his own ajnaana , in comparison with his own son.

I think fairly explains the above position.
If a mistake is happened in Spelling how it will affect the newly wedded couple? Have you realised?
It is Like nithyatvam and Nidhrathvam.

Secondly if you spell Gayathri Prochodhyath instead of Prochayath you will get skin diseases like ring worm.

Do you know that?

Again I recall an anecdote my grandfather told me to instill the need to correct pronunciation and correct "akshara".

A devotee was reciting some mantra with ardent devotion and concentration, with intention to have his children longlife. But unfortunately, each one of his children die. He shared his sorrow with a great scholar and vedic acharya.
The scholar asked him to recite the mantra to him. Then he scolded the devotee."Why not refer to a "grantha" - (text book) when you recite?

He was using a word like "Bhakshanam" instead of " Rakshanam"

( word was meaning 'Please eat' instead of meaning 'please save "
So the roudra devatha was following the severe instructions of the ardent devotee and eating(killing) the children instead of saving them.
This may be just a story and may be left like that.But one should learn,chant correctly with the help of right guru and right text.

See I want to gain knowledge only by asking questions and we can also enlighten others too.

I wish our forum to contact the Vedic Schools run by mathas and other get clarification and justify the same. If any doubt arises on the performance of Vadyars let us discuss.

Now since the Vadyaars are professionals and few of them skipping manthras and we may satisfy ourselves that God will answer them, OK if any one pay extra money will they change their attitude and say No for yes and Yes for No?

It is for one to decide whether to follow somebody or not. While in the beginning one may be a novice , and may blindly follow vadhyar.But after a period of many repetition of the rituals , with a different vadhyars,at different places , one may acquire relevant knowledge. Then vadhyar can be kept as symbolic for acharya's place.Even if vadhyar goes wrong, the performer can do/pronounce correctly,indirectly correcting vadhyar also. Vadhyar also learned it from somebody els only.He woul have taken that version as correct.
(Now a days Pandit and purohit are not same).

One vadhyar I had once for a function pronounces "Visheshana Vishishtaayaam" ..as "Visheshana VASISHTAAYAAM"..
Since they are getting money?

I beg please do not think all vadhyaars are so,and don't vilify them .Many vadhyars are many more times magnanimous than average many of us.


Greetings.

 

[suvarchas]

Vaideeka sambhavanai

My notings in blue


I beg please do not think all vadhyaars are so,and don't vilify them .Many vadhyars are many more times magnanimous than average many of us.


Greetings.

You are right.I personally can quote the names of very big scholars who despite their erudition and popularity never demand anything and leave it to us.One was our own family Vadhyar who is no more.Another one is still active and a big name in Kanchi Mutt who literally flies to all major cities but nevertheless very simple.He had personally performed big homams for me and as for dakshinai left it to my choice .

Afterll Vaidheekas also have to lead a comfortable life in the present cost of living.Ofcourse there are avaracious vadhyars are also there.

 

[SUNDARJI]

Dear learnemember,

About vaithika sambhavanai we are talking. If vadhiyar is performing good the pavem will go to that vadhyar only. Seond thing is the yajmanas are also not keen to
spend their time in anusthanam. THEY also want to completing the pooja as much as possible quikly, which the vadhyar take for their souriyam. We also know about
our sampradaya,and etc. then we will tell them that this is the way which our elders performing the pooja and homam etc. So mistake is done by vadhyar only we sre also responsible for that