• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Trying to bribe GOD

Not open for further replies.
something to consider: doing penance just for the sake of it. ie climbing up the hills of thirupathi on foot. :)

That is an adventure activity, not a penance! My son (the one who got married two days ago) has gone on Amarnath Yaatra twice, not impelled by any special devotion to Lord Shiva, but just for the thrill of it, in the company of some friends, who might or might not be having any "offer" intention to God!

There are people who visit Sabarimala year after year by devotion, with malai poattukkolvadhu, not shaving, wearing, blue/black mundu, saranam vilippadhu, self-restraint on food intake, sexual activities, Irumudikkattu etc. In Kerala, there are many who visit every month also, though not following any serious restriction. There are people who visit Thirumala-Thirumathi also on annual/monthly basis in a similar way. All these people are not visiting necessarily with any specific request for fulfillment. It is an unresolved combination of general devotion, mental satisfaction and picnic-like recreation, in different proportion for different people. I am not sure how we can call this phenomenon as a 'bribe'!
Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I have to disagree. Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji has already set a boundary for his thread. He does not want the concepts of Bhakthi, Prayers to be questioned here. And as the author of the thread he has every right to set those boundaries.

So, please I request you to honor his wishes of not posting anything else other than your views on this topic. Thanks.

Sorry Mr. Nacchinarkiniyan, this is a discussion about trying to bribe god. I have a POV and I would like to express it in as civil a way as I can. Let me gently remind you sir, where to post and what to post is my decision, and to allow it or not is that of the moderator.

Generally I have found that this "vendutal" is not as simple as is being made out in the posts here. I am aware of a number of cases where the concerned devotees (those who do a ceratin "vendutal" in respect of a particular episode - like job selection in a particular interview, marriage with a certain boy/girl, etc.) performing the same even though they were not successful in that particular attempt but some other interview, marriage, etc., would be successful subsequently and then they will say, "see, that particular job/marriage would not have been good for us, that was why god did not allow it; now this is what is having "deivaanugraham" and so we should perform the venduthal. Deivakkadan baakki irukkapadaathu, kudumbatthukku dosham."

I have also seen cases where divination ("prasnam" in Kerala side) brought out some venduthal kadan or deiva kadan as cause for current problems, some expert astrologers were able to nearly pinpoint the venduthal and then the concerned parties remembered one such examples as cited above by me. When the people concerned tried to say that the particular marriage, job etc., did not transpire, so why should there be a compulsion to perform it, the answer given by the astrologers is more or less on the same lines given. ("see, that particular job/marriage would not have been good for you, that was why god did not allow it; now later on it did happen and that is what is having "deivaanugraham" and so you ought to perform it.")

Though I would prefer people to refrain from "Manotis" as the northerners say, I do not think it is possible to lessen it. (It is as difficult to remove maayaa from Brahman, in the advaita philosophy!) The devotees probably feel that whatever they lack on their personal efforts, will be made good by some superior force which is identified with a particular deity and temple and then they solemnly swear to do some venduthal, as a symbol of their sacrifice, so that the help of that superior force may be available to them at the nick of time in ever so many ways so that their deficiencies are made good and their objective is achieved.

Here, the objective is as much materialistic as say, in any of the yagas or other sacrificial rites of the vedas. "You perform a certain "sacrifice" and you will get such-and-such benefit", take putrakameshti, rajasuyam, or whatever. Change this philosophy a bit and it becomes, "If I get such-and-such benefit, I swear I will perform a certain sacrifice."

I would speculate the reason for the common folks standing the vedic priests' postulate on its head, to be the solid, earthy, commonsense of our ordinary, illiterate folks. They were not probably too convinced about the original dictum and its infallibility but, nevertheless, were not averse to giving it a try in times of extreme need and urgency. Hence they changed it into a certain reverse contract, which now looks like "bribing god". In some ways the yagas (vedic sacrifices) were also a mirror image of such venduthals, IMO. So, if we want to remove one, the other also would need to be removed.

Lastly, Gita III, 11 and 12 do appear to encourage "the people and the devas to nourish each other" and "thus nourishing each other, you will attain the highest good."

devān bhāvayata anena te devā bhāvayantu vaḥ |
parasparaṃ bhāvayantaḥ śreya: paramavāpsyatha ||

May be this was interpreted to mean that by mutual give and take, gods and the dvijas will both achieve their goals.
DEAR SANGOM THE ANSWER question is, in what way is this different from offering money to a person in an organization for getting something done? When you offer money to a person for showing you a favour you call it a bribe. A person who takes a bribe does a person a favour, which he does not do to others who do not bribe him. By offering money to God we ask him to do us a favour over others. Bribe is given on the condition that the job gets done. The offer to God is also fulfilled only when the job is done not otherwise.





Last edited:
Sangom:Hence they changed it into a certain reverse contract

"Paduthukkonde Poathukkalaam; Poarthukkonde Paduthukkalam" ;) :)

Or, more flippantly, Thaaliyaitthaan Kattikkondu Oadippolaama? Oadippoy thaaliyaitthaan Kattikkalaama? ;)

Are they really equivalent???
"Paduthukkonde Poathukkalaam; Poarthukkonde Paduthukkalam" ;) :)

Or, more flippantly, Thaaliyaitthaan Kattikkondu Oadippolaama? Oadippoy thaaliyaitthaan Kattikkalaama? ;)

Are they really equivalent???

That is why I said "reverse contract" which seems to have the approval of Gita as well.
Bhakthi Yoga does not believe in rituals. Even temple worship is not necessary. Open to everyone irrespective of caste/creed/religion.

No conditions at all. That is why it is considered to be the ideal path for the modern age.

Of course I am aware that there are people who put conditions even in Bhakthi.

Precious Lord, take my hand
Lead me on, let me stand
I am tired, I am weak, I am worn
Through the storm, through the night
Lead me on to the light
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

When my way grows drear
Precious Lord linger near
When my life is almost gone
Hear my cry, hear my call
Hold my hand lest I fall
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

When the darkness appears
And the night draws near
And the day is past and gone
At the river I stand
Guide my feet, hold my hand
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

Precious Lord, take my hand
Lead me on, let me stand
I'm tired, I'm weak, I'm lone
Through the storm, through the night
Lead me on to the light
Take my hand precious Lord, lead me home

This is a Bhaktha's cry.
So, please I request you to honor his wishes of not posting anything else other than your views on this topic. Thanks.
Dear Shri KRS, if you are saying this as a moderator I will abide by it. Since you did not use red-ink, I think it is your view as a member, but not sure if you will transition into moderator-mode next time. Assuming it is strictly as a member with no threat of transitioning into moderator-mode, I ask you Shri KRS, in what way my responses in post #7, post #17 and post #19 violate any guidelines of the forum? If you have a reasonable answer that is satisfactory to me, I will refrain from posting in this thread. Otherwise, I wish to continue to express my opinion, as always in a civil way without making any personal observations as some continue to do so even after so much wrangling.

Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji has already set a boundary for his thread. He does not want the concepts of Bhakthi, Prayers to be questioned here. And as the author of the thread he has every right to set those boundaries.
Under what authority does he set this boundary? This thread is under the section Philosophy and Scriptures with the following as the description.
This section questions our current understanding of scriptures and existing practices. If you absolutely believe that our current ways are supreme and that traditions should not be questioned in any way this is NOT the thread for you. There is another thread in the Customs and Traditions section.
I feel I have not violated the spirit and text of this description. Mr. Nacchinarkiniyan himself ended his OP with "I request the members to respond." Now he does not like my response and he wants me to go away. This does not make any sense to me. It is not good to encourage behavior that tries to shut out views that one disagrees with. The only to avoid opposing views is to stay home and retreat from the rest of the world, as the world is full of opposing views.

Last edited by a moderator:
Dear Nachinarkiniyan,
- G C Sekhar
Remember that the real purpose of offering anything to the Lord is to show your devotion and gratitude to Him. God accepts your devotion, not the physical offering itself. God is complete in Himself--He doesn't need anything--but out of His immense kindness He allows us to offer anything to Him so that we can develop our love for Him and show our gratitude to him.And this is in a positive manner called 'anballippu' and in a negative manner called 'kimbalam' aka bribe.
Edtd - KRS
Lastly, Gita III, 11 and 12 do appear to encourage
As you know very well, Gita does much more than that, it says those who show Bhakti for material benefit are also punyathmas. In post #7 I gave the shloka in Tamil script, let me repeat it here in Nagari.
चतुर्विधा भजन्ते मां जनाः सुकृतिनोर्जुन ।
आर्तो जिज्ञासुरर्थार्थी ज्ञानी च भरतर्ष्भ ॥
Even though I do like to think of myself as a rationalist, and I am seen as one as well, I am not basing my case here on rationality, but on the scriptures that are sacred to the observant.

Last edited by a moderator:
Dear Professor Nara Ji,

My response above was my view as a Moderator. Because I did not splash 'red' all over, as requested by some other members in the Forum, for certain occassions, I am starting with normal ink.

Now you are correct - this Forum topic is open to discussions. While it's counterpart you have cited in another section is not open to ANY discussions about the merits of items posted there, as long as the content there conforms to the topic.

Now, the right to restrict a topic lies with the thread originator. This has both logical and practical reasoning. Logically, the thread creator wants to see only narrow discussions pertaining to the topic, because that is what interests him. And he has every right to do that. Normally posters do not do that, but when one does wish to restrict the topic, it should be adhered. By not adhering to it, you then come against the practical side of it.

Which is, he can choose not to respond again, or he may ask the Moderator to close the thread - in both cases, it is against the Forum's interests.

Let me chronicle below, where and why Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji set the boundary:

After you and Sri Sangom Ji's excanges, previous to this, he said in post# 10:

"Your discussions regarding GOD and Bhakthi movement takes the focus away from the point of discussion here Viz. Are we trying to Bribe GOD?"

In post #12, Sri Sangom Ji asked this question and a statement:
So, my request is, instead of this thread becoming a detailed opinion poll sort of thing, will it not be permissible to allow related discussions like what is the concept about god, how and when the bribing (as you put it) might have commnenced, etc.? In case your answer is a firm NO, I will shift my post elsewhere.

For which Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji responded in post #13:

"The idea behind this thread is to make the people who make Venduthal to have a fresh look at the practice. It is not a opinion poll. The number of members who view any of the threads here is far higher than the number of people who respond.

Keeping that in mind your posts relating to GOD and the history of the practice is a digression. It would take away the emphasis on stopping/curbing the practice."

Here he has clearly established the boundaries.

You posted a response to Sri CLN Ji in post #17:

"I feel the very idea of prayer and worship promotes a kind of dependency mind-set, which leads to belief in all kinds of superstitions. It is best to raise our children free of religious dogma and indoctrination. It is best to expose them to all kinds of ideas in as much a value-neutral way as possible and let them make up their own mind in due course of time. Let us teach them how to think, not what to think. I am sure this is too radical an idea for those for whom tradition is invaluably inerrant."

All the rest of your posting conformed to his boundary. But here you are questioning the validity of prayer itself, which he clearly stated as outside of the boundary.

So, he responded in post #18:
"So Mr. Nara please post your rationalist point of view in some other discussion. Thank You."

This is a very calm assertion describing the points you posted in #17.

And as I have stated, he has every right to restrict the dicussions as the originator of this thread topic.

Please consider this as the Moderator's voice and Moderation. Hope you would abide by this.


When I was young I was told tales of Bhaktha from Bhaktha Vijayam. This was originally in Marathi and translated into Tamil. Stories about Vithoba/Panduranga/Vittala. Gorakumba the potter, Namdev, Tukaram, Mira Bai and others. Later the stories of the Nayanmars/Azhvars caught my interest.

Why? Because these stories illustrated the fact that one need not born into a so called higher caste, one need not know Sanskrit or study any scriptures to become a Bhaktha. What is required is Bhakthi/Devotion.

Knowledge of Sanskrit and Scriptures could be a big handicap in the path of Bhakthi.

The life of Ramprasad Sen revealed to me that one could be a Tantrik and also a Bhaktha. It took me years to realize that.

There is another Hindu religious forum (which is defunct now) where I used to post regularly. There the concept of Bhakthi was a contentious issue. Most of the members refused to accept that all people who are devoted to GOD are even Bhakthas. Their reasoning was based on Bhagavad Gita, Narada Bhakthi Sutra and other religious texts.

My definition is based on the life histories of Bhakthas like Gorakumba and Tukaram.
caste by birth has its genesis but science is validating via genetic mapping or dna.caste by way of living is yet another way to adhere to norms of traditions of various matthams.by giving anbalippu to god,is an acknowledgement of gratitude,if the wish is fulfilled and when the wish is not fulfilled,the anballippu becomes even more severe for the true devouit,untill the wish gets fulfilled.we work as if everything depends on us to acheive a goal but actually the fruit of our labor is totally in the hands of the lord,imho.
Dear CLN sir,
Thanks for your post #24 confirming that GOD cannot be bribed and does not bribe.
Had the thread not used the word trying to bribe I would not have gone in to the aspect of Bribe. Bribe is purely negative and by using it here we dilute the belief system. ( Particularly during the period of GIANT sized scams)
I have seen some dutiful son asssure his mother that he will get her a good saree / jewelery in his first month salary. Most often than not it is being done. Before going for the interview the son falls on the feet of the mother and seeks her blessings and she also blesses her. This cannot be said as offer and return.
Similarly we have faith in God and believe that his blessings will make us prosper in our endeavour and we seek his blessings and the venduthalai is nothing but seeking his blessings and offer HIM even if the wish is partially fulfilled.
It is our tradition to seek blessings from elders and give ashirvadham to youngsters and GOD being the supreme we seek blessings from HIM
....And as I have stated, he has every right to restrict the dicussions as the originator of this thread topic.
Dear Shri KRS, Thank you for the detailed explanation. As I said so myself, "to allow it or not is that of the moderator". You have spoken with the moderator's hat and I will respect that.

I would like to make one comment on the topic, and it is not from a rationalist POV and is very much pertinent to the topic.

I find nothing superior in the kind of bhakti described in post #32 compared to the bhakti of a simple person looking to god to tide over some problem or other. For example, I feel the bhakti of a poor old lady promising to do laksharchanai if her granddaughter's marriage goes off well (or even to have her granddaughter do anga pradakhinam), is to me no more or no less understandable than the bhakti of someone who is free of most common worldly problems turning to god for solace. As I have shown from Srimat BG text itself, it is an indisputable fact that Lord Sri Krishna himself does not take an elitist approach to bhakti.

i feel so happy now,to see nachi,krs,nara and me, hope i put the donkey in the last ie me grammatically correctly written.this is an excellent topic,hopefully more members will participate.when a person realises the purport of our teachings,a sense of peace wil prevail and transform him/her.rituals alongwith bhakthi yoga is what anballippu is all about,imho.a trader mentality inherent in some beings,will barter with the lord and there is nothing wrong with that either,a his gunam is that of a vaishya .
Dear Shri.Nachinaarkkiniyan,

The process of propitiation itself is not by virtue in Sanaathana Dharma. The question of Bribing the Almighty by promising 1008 Pedaas, or 1008 Kozhukkattais itself seems to be frivolous.

Can we make a business deal with the CEO of a Trillion Dollar Multinational company for getting payment of some Rs. 1000/- due to us. Similarly it is very childish to make a business deal with the CEO of this Universe the Almighty Nirguna Parabrahman. People of higher mental capabilities know that what ever has to happen (inspite of any one trying to stop it from not happening) and what ever that should not happen will never happen - according to Bhagavath Geetha.

So if one is destined to have something done, it will be invariable done, and if one is not destined to have it done, it will not be done in spite of many efforts.

In Sanaathana Dharma, mainly in Vedas, propitiation has not been advised, but only friendly or mutually beneficial co-existence with all the fellow living things, itself will make the Almighty to have some soft corner towards that person, and will get the desired result.

Calling the Almighty responsible for not giving desired results is again frivolous, because the Almighty has formed some rules and norms and they take care of all entities in this Universe without the intervention of the Almighty maker. If it not to so, why there is a science of Astrology?

This shows clearly that the Nirguna Parabrahman, gives us to yearning to achieve something, and may give a positive result to make us happy or may give negative result to make us sad. But it not the fault of the Nirguna Parabrahman, but only our fate.

The mere thought that we can make a business deal with the Omnipotent Almighty is childish.
Last edited:
Yes we trying to. You know the saying in Hindi "Kushamatse khuda be raaji". From time immemorial man has problems and in total helplessness he approached the guru and he composed the stotras for us which we recite or patter. It is a great idea to bring god in a stone. We can say everything to it and will not be rebuffed. So also the pujas. You go on doing pooja until you lose faith in it. The harassed mind or buddhi rather gets a spark out of your own frustration and there the solution. We are so magnanimous we give to god or say pooja phalan. He must be smiling at us. These tools, stotras and vigrahams are good inspiration. The result is what you are entitled to. The stotras and poojas help us get into concentration mode - whether worldly or godly. Thus they do good only.
Last edited:
வேண்டுதல் வேண்டாமை இலானடி சேர்ந்தார்க்கு
யாண்டும் இடும்பை இல.

Greetings to everyone. Thiruvalluvar is very clear in this. He says, God is 'வேண்டுதல் வேண்டாமை இலான்.'. God neither needs nor rejects. So, 'bribing God' is just a personal preference. I think, in most occassions, God could do with the humour, I suppose! (My concept of God is slightly different to popular belief, though).

Personally, do I bribe God? answer is, yes, I do that quite cheerfully! My theory is simple...If you make the human beings very happy, God becomes happy.

It was our 25th wedding anniversary...We had the celebrations on a Sunday (We were in Australia). We chose a temple in a small village in India...asked my brother & his family to attend...arranged for a 'thirumanjanam' followed by 'thadee yaradhanai' to the residents of that village... That is an example..we just bribe the God only in that fashion. We may not even ask for anything, sometimes just do it for an anniversary..may be for our children's birthday...

No one has objected to this so far. After all, there are some very happy faces, very satisfied tummies.....I don't know! Sri.nachinarkiniyan Sir, this post may not even be relevant to the thread....Just sharing my thoughts.

Not open for further replies.

Latest ads