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K

kasi

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dear friends,

note : i am not a opposite to brahmin community or brahmins. i am also a brahmin pl. read this
this is to my heart talking to you, this is not for fun.

in todays world who is the enemy for the brahmins? think

1. Christians,muslims, nathigars - if you think means " big no"

the worst enemy for brahmins is the brahmin itself.

after reading this many brahmins will starting fighting with me, if they did so they acting. their heart knows very well.

check your self in these categories u can find.

1. relationship between relations ( brothers,sisters,cousins) all filled with egos
comparing between themselves and spliting in to nuclear families.( u can check with other communities also) more from brahmin community only.

2. one who has more money will be given importance in brahmin society and other will be separated by his blood relations itself.

3. elder people who should teach unity is teaching ego's and comparisons in his childs heart , till their marriage. after his duties are over then he will start talking about unity between relations and brahmna thathuvams. if you ask he will say he finished his duties he is collecting punya for his last stages.

4. marriage alliance biggest tragedy, already some friend had spoken in this forum about this.

conclusion: the laws which are used in business is used in between relations.

after reading this if you scold me, i am worried because you are innocent. not knowing the fact.
 
Dear kasi, What you have stated is true but only in part. What you have said is applicable to all communities. But it is felt more to us because we were more rigid.
 
dear kr subramanian, i accept it is there, in other communities also but one point in other communities , i have seen many they will not leave a person because of money, they will surely help him . here if you dont have money means (irukiya sethiyanu kuda keka allu irukathu). the worst brahmin community is going now. this trend is came in this community recently.
 
Dear Kasi,
I agree to your points.In madurai Kallar Community,a branch of Thevar Community is large in mass.
They have a Custom or Tradition.If a man among them became financially weak They celebrate a Function ," Kaathu Kuthu " That is Ear Boring ceremony.
I was wondering that the ceremony is fixed for 8 years and 10 yrs old children.The bore the already pierced ears also.
This is well known to his close relatives also.In spite of it they will attend in mass gathering and celebrate the function.
The Moi Collection alone will come in some lakhs.With that Moi Panam the weaker man gets alerted and start a business and come back to normal.

An example in our community also : A gentleman by name Shri Sundara Rajan enquired me for a Taxi for 3 days to attend a marriage near Madurai.He planned to go to Thiruchendur,Nanguneri and Srivilliputhur and back to Madurai on those 3 days.The difference between my quote and a Christian Was just Rs 300/- in Total.That is Rs 100/- per day.Immediately that gentleman totally ignored me and jumped to that Christian.

Please compare the Contrast between our community and others.
 
I am of the Opinion, such attitudes of egoism, egotism, selfishness are individualistic and cannot be attributed to communities. There are virtuous in every community as there are vicious. There are righteous in every community as there are wicked.
 
At least Four Elephants will Place the New Born baby Elephant in between them and Teach him how to walk for some weeks.

Kangaro keep its own baby in its pouch.

But as far as I am Concerned (Now I am 52 yrs old) a Brahmin Used to Mock at his own relatives in the room and pray god to give unity among Brahmins.

A Christian will never encourage others if a man among Christian is available for any requirements of Service needed by him.

Muslims also stay united and encourage their community.

But Brahmins are like Tigers,which will eat its First Child to eliminate Hunger.
 
When virtues and morals are given the go-by, such types of behaviour is only to be expected in Kali Yuga! People , by attending more religious gatherings, by going to temples together, by attending more satsangas, by talking to elderly relatives and attending to their simple needs, by conducting and volunteering educational and medical camps for the community, are more likely to bond together and stand by the community. It is true that today, a rich Brahmin does not care much about others of the community, lower in status to him!
 
Modern Virtues Expected out of TB by Higher Strata of society:

- Should have the kids settled abroad
- Should talk in English always
- Should have Vaira Thodu, A lot of jewels
- Should conduct Lavish Function
- Will talk ill about old customs

More are there , but I remember only some now..
 
Iyer said:
I am of the Opinion, such attitudes of egoism, egotism, selfishness are individualistic and cannot be attributed to communities. There are virtuous in every community as there are vicious. There are righteous in every community as there are wicked.
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Sri Iyer,

True. Human behaviour cannot be generalized or compartmentalized to communities. We are individuals in thinking and upbringing. Social circumstances and environment molds a persons character. But, basic instincts of propagation and self preservation are the same in all living beings, more prominent among human species. Communities are social grouping, that changes along with geographical distribution. Our attitude towards others changes when we leave a close knit unit like village to mixed grouping of bigger towns, further expands if we live in a foreign land.
It is a vast and interesting subject,
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
hi all,
there are some weakness in every community.....but i had wonderful experienences with gujarati patels/jain community especially in USA...

we have to learn many things from them....even though they are not much educated but hard working...there is a word....THERE IS NO

MOTEL WITHOUT PATEL....somewhat our background is reason for EGO.....which is taller than effel tower....varattu gowravam/

veen vambu/ahangaram /swayanalam are basic qualities of our community....many ppl wont accept it.....never regret abt these type

of general characters....even still some of characters are with me....i wont deny.....but this is my heriditary characters....its reality..

many wont agree with me....becoz UNMAI ALWAYS KASKAKKUM....TRUTH IS ALWAYS BITTER.....

regards
tbs
 
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namaste everyone.

I think that what shrI Kasi says is essentially true with the brahmin community. Perhaps some pointers are:

• More and more elderly brahmins, single or dampati--couple, seek old-age homes, since there is no male/female member to take care of them--even cook food for them--in their own homes, after raising their children with phenomenal care and sacrifice.

• Brahmin girls invariably vie with brahmin boys in education and job opportunities, preferring the Engineering degree courses, CA and MBA, higher studies abroad, and plush jobs such as the IT or CA or MBA executive. Surely, while brahmin boys have abandoned their kulAchAra and dharma, namely, learning, studying and chanting/reading out the shruti and smRti, especially the Vedas, brahmin girls, probably unlike girls in other communities, have abandoned their grahastha dharma of learning proper cooking, serving elders and maintaining the family assisting their mothers.

• Brahmin parents, since they are clueless as to the future of their children, and are forced to educate them in the western system, are today helpless in deciding the higher education, occupation and even marital alliance of their children. The rot they themselves started by getting lured by the government and educational jobs during the British rule, and venturing into business later on, have become a mountain of garbage today, that our tradition and culture find increasingly difficult to cope with.

Our vAdhyAr--prohit, has a boy getting ready for his LKG class. When I asked him whether he would send his boy to a veda-pAThashAla (he learned prayoga--ritual servicing, after giving up a central government job), the reply he gave was thought-provoking: "These are days of kalupput-thirumaNam--inter-caste marriages, so I am afraid in future, there will be no scope for homely or public vedic rituals."

In these matters, we usually speak about the negative reality that exists among us. It could be helpful if we discuss possible solutions, however impractical, fanciful or utopian they may be, such as the ones shrI Kahanam has given in post no.8, specially with regard to brahmin girls.
 
saidevo said:
. It could be helpful if we discuss possible solutions, however impractical, fanciful or utopian they may be,
Click to expand...
Dear saidevo
I fail to understand the use in discussing impractical, fanciful or utopian solutions to any problem.We must always think of practical solutions to any problem.
 
[FONT=&quot]To analyze who is superior to whom; to find who is richer than whom; to find who is beneficial & only to stick to him/her; to know how to be secretive and pretend to be unknown; how to use lower level people maximum to one's benefit, that too hardly rendering any help in return..etc etc ...are the prime qualities of our community. Perhaps exceptions do exist and majority of exceptional people are those who are living outside India and or in Northern India.

Though our genes have these qualities, as grown up adults we can mend our self in this Global environment where we are exposed to many fine qualities that can be learned and incorporated in us and the existing challenges of our community that need to be coped up being supportive to each other, if not to the outside brahmins, at least among own siblings and relatives. The sense of togetherness and helping our own family members and relatives for sure would make us to be a fair minded and helping brahmin for our society at large.

I have seen in many brahmin families, where well to do people wont bother the genuine problems of their relative and wont even accept to offer financial support to complete higher studies of a deserving student, with a fair repayment deal. Because their ego and superior complexity would not allow them to help their relatives progress at their cost. They would rather give some tip money in the pretext of helping some way.

These tendencies among brahmins, I have found through my circle after we settled down in Chennai.. And I accepted it with my NB friends who know well about us and clearly define our refined qualities.

May be we brahmins jointly need to perform Yagna for Lord Jagatrakshaka Perumal and Pushpakavalli Thayar to harness unity and oneness in our society as a family and help bring the society as a family together. This may bring results, provided we decide to cooperate and work together and dont compete and fight as who gonna take the lead to finalize the program and no one criticize the leader for any kind of lapse beyond control, if any.
[/FONT]
 
People , by attending more religious gatherings, by going to temples together, by attending more satsangas, by talking to elderly relatives and attending to their simple needs, by conducting and volunteering educational and medical camps for the community, are more likely to bond together and stand by the community.

There is nothing utopian about these. Our seers like Kanchi Mahaswamigal and Sringeri Acharyal Sri Chandrasekhar Bharathi Maha Swamigal lived model lives. In spite of their efforts, due to a reduction in our Punya Bhalam, we found deterioration in the community. If Brahmins start inculcating values in the youngsters including girls, by practising them diligently, the effects of the current civilisation on youngsters can be minimised so that they will be leading a much better and happier life! The dangers of materialism has started sinking in slowly!
 
saidevo said:
namaste everyone.

I think that what shrI Kasi says is essentially true with the brahmin community. Perhaps some pointers are:

• More and more elderly brahmins, single or dampati--couple, seek old-age homes, since there is no male/female member to take care of them--even cook food for them--in their own homes, after raising their children with phenomenal care and sacrifice.

• Brahmin girls invariably vie with brahmin boys in education and job opportunities, preferring the Engineering degree courses, CA and MBA, higher studies abroad, and plush jobs such as the IT or CA or MBA executive. Surely, while brahmin boys have abandoned their kulAchAra and dharma, namely, learning, studying and chanting/reading out the shruti and smRti, especially the Vedas, brahmin girls, probably unlike girls in other communities, have abandoned their grahastha dharma of learning proper cooking, serving elders and maintaining the family assisting their mothers.

• Brahmin parents, since they are clueless as to the future of their children, and are forced to educate them in the western system, are today helpless in deciding the higher education, occupation and even marital alliance of their children. The rot they themselves started by getting lured by the government and educational jobs during the British rule, and venturing into business later on, have become a mountain of garbage today, that our tradition and culture find increasingly difficult to cope with.

Our vAdhyAr--prohit, has a boy getting ready for his LKG class. When I asked him whether he would send his boy to a veda-pAThashAla (he learned prayoga--ritual servicing, after giving up a central government job), the reply he gave was thought-provoking: "These are days of kalupput-thirumaNam--inter-caste marriages, so I am afraid in future, there will be no scope for homely or public vedic rituals."

In these matters, we usually speak about the negative reality that exists among us. It could be helpful if we discuss possible solutions, however impractical, fanciful or utopian they may be, such as the ones shrI Kahanam has given in post no.8, specially with regard to brahmin girls.
Click to expand...

Sir,

We see a lot a prosperity in many families that were struggling even some 20 years back, thanks mainly due to high salaries in the corporate sector and employment abroad.

In the decades upto 1980 the difference between the wealth between the siblings used to be thin, but it has rapidly widened.
The truth is that whether we like it or not, marriage alliances are determined one by financial status (rather the potential as given by the choice of a career).
In other communities too finances play an important part, but not the sole determinant of marital alliances.

Until recently, elders's had a say in alliances, but now many have themselves fallen prey to materialistic attractions.

As of now, this trend does not appear to change.

With regards,
Swami

No matter what we discuss here, the attitudes can't be easily changed
 
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I think we should forget what we have done until now, and start with a clean slate. I'll not accept the qualities being attributed to our community.
I have a fisrt hand experience that when my family was struggling after my father's death, my relatives did whatever help they could possibly do at that point of time.
But I am determined to help bright students belonging to economically backward class irrespective of their caste.
Our elders need to bring a little flexibility in their thought process as we are entering such an exciting phase of globalization.
India is being perceived as tomorrow's super power. We brahmins are said to be the most progressive thinkers and pioneers amongst Indians.
So,why not lead this change and leave orthodoxy to 18th century to where it belongs.
By orthodoxy I am not speaking about our customs or rituals but if we can have an explanation that the can be explained to the today's youth.
 
Hi Kasi,

I don't know what makes you think I bluff, And I don't understand why do you expect anything from your relatives.
If you are expecting financial help you better go to a bank. I was only talking about moral support, this is the least we expected and we got it.
Are you being practical by crying over your relative's behaviour, rather than facing life head on.
Just by blaming and painting our community badly is not going to change anything we need solutions kasi.
 
dear saikarthik, i not mentioning your personal experience, i noted my comment for below words.

(India is being perceived as tomorrow's super power. We brahmins are said to be the most progressive thinkers and pioneers amongst Indians.
So,why not lead this change and leave orthodoxy to 18th century to where it belongs.
By orthodoxy I am not speaking about our customs or rituals but if we can have an explanation that the can be explained to the today's youth.)
 
dear saikarthik, we are human beings not cinema hero man. if you want bank loan also you need some friends or relatives to get the bank loan ok. and every man has problem and he only can solve his problem, relation or community people help is needed as a moral support and sometimes financial also. if you have wealth you can go to bank not having means what you will do (thanimaram thopagathu boss).
 
folks,

i think as a community we may not have one representative voice, but as a group, we have a mode of behaviour which swerves in the direction of improving our material lot. i suspect, that as a group, we tambrams are among the more prosperous ones in india as a whole.

i am of the sentiment, that we have moved with the times, and maximized our opportunities that were provided to us by the britishers and free india. if at all anything, our successes has been a model for other communities to emulate. there is no better flattery that imitation.

i read saidevo's note and wonder why his lament for a changing world. the society is going through a correction process. one only needs to turn back one page of the book to remember the overbearing mil whose gimlet eyes have destroyed the youth of many a dil.

nobody at that time complained about the abandoned old people, whose in many cases a tyrannically perpetual dissatisfied state fell on the shoulders of the poor dil to bear, while the son went merrily away to work and expected a peaceful home on his return.

we tend to romanticize the aged, but even as i am on the cusp of ageing, i cannot but recall the unsavoury characterestics of ageing prevalent till recently in our community - constant complaints, dissatisfaction with the whole world, abuse of dils and the ultimate accusations of 'neglect and ingratitude'. the fact is many old people are simply nasty.

if the old are nasty, they are better of being nasty in old age homes, than violating the peace of their dil. all this chastening and realization has only come of late, when the old ones see but a pyrrihic victory in the success of their sons.

personally, if possible, i think, it is better for parents to live with their daughters. the mother daughter bond, is said to be the strongest bond in the world. these might fight like cats and dogs, but make up quickly. the mil dil mix is like oil and water, never to mix.

again re sacrifice of bringing up children - those children did not want of themselves to come to this world. how convenient to forget this in saidevo's lament?

again, the supposed 'problem' of girls! what 'problem'? that the girls have now the same freedom to education which the sons enjoyed all along? that these now earn handsomely and can be of succour to THEIR parents instead of being instant cash cows on marriage to the in laws? that they now have a choice to marry someone of their choice?

again, we are only going through a correction process, with the girls getting their due, which their mothers probably had only a glimpse and which was non existent for their grandmothers.

i agree that the infirms need care. but sickness needs care, irrespective of age. i also agree, that as one ages, one needs change. the solution is to adapt and make new friends, new interests and above all treat your children with respect, regard and pride - not as a property now owing care and security to you.

let us learn to adjust to our new found prosperity, perhaps be a tad kind to ourselves, and loosen our purse strings to help the needy, among our own, and the rest. being harsh on ourselves serves no purpose. poverty is a horrible state to be in, and we have only done the right thing - to uplift ourselves without by and large, doing no harm to others in the process.

thank you.
 
namaste shrI Kahanam

I said in post no.12:
"In these matters, we usually speak about the negative reality that exists among us. It could be helpful if we discuss possible solutions, however impractical, fanciful or utopian they may be, such as the ones shrI Kahanam has given in post no.8, specially with regard to brahmin girls."

I am sorry that my sentence construction above has given rise to a fallacy that implies that I considered your excellent suggestions in post no.8 as utopian. Let me rephrase my statement as follows:

"In these matters, we usually speak about the negative reality that exists among us. It could be helpful if we discuss possible solutions, such as the ones shrI Kahanam has given in post no.8, although unlike those suggestions, however impractical, fanciful or utopian our suggestions might be, specially with regard to brahmin girls."

To recompense further for my error, let me pick out the suggestions by shrI Kahanam's that could be easy and practical to everyone of us:

• by attending more religious gatherings, by attending more religious gatherings, by going to temples together, by attending more satsangas;

• by talking to elderly relatives and attending to their simple needs;

Two excellent suggestions that could foster the kinship in family and community. Let me add to the list:

• Brahmin parents should read about the teach Hindu religious values to their children at least during week-ends over the dining table, encourage them to browse Hindu websites on the Net, conduct family quiz sessions, watch TV channels that seek to foster Hindu values, take them regularly to temples and insist that they dress the Hindu way while at home and that the women and girls wear the tilakam prominently.

• As SvAmi DayAnanda said in a speech in the US, parents should try to "reach, rather than teach the children"--'walking the talk' as it is known in these days. Parents should have daily prArthanA sessions that could be simple and individual, and more detailed at week-ends that could be familial, everyone assembling in the puja room and chanting simple shlokas and stotras. Once the upanayanam of a son is performed, parents should insist that the child recites at least 108 gAyatrI mantras daily and do the sandhyAvandanam, at least during the week-ends.

• Celebrate as many Hindu festivals as possible, preparing the related vyanjana--snacks, and involving the entire family. Encourage children to dine with Hindu dishes and learn cooking them.

• How many of us are familiar with the Hindu religious and moral stories that our grandparents told us? Why can't we make some effort to get to know about them when we browse the Net daily? One good website for such stories is: Moral Stories We can also buy story books such as the 'ChandamAma' for our children.

• Buy CDs/DVDs of Tamizh classic religious films such as 'TiruviLaiyADal', 'TiruvaruTchelvar', 'Sarasvati Sabatam', 'Kandan KaruNai', 'Adi Parasakti' and so on, and watch them at week-ends with the children.

One can easily think of many other simple steps such as the ones suggested above, to foster our tradition at the family level.
 
namaste saarangam.

You said in post no.13:
"I fail to understand the use in discussing impractical, fanciful or utopian solutions to any problem.We must always think of practical solutions to any problem."

• The level of a solution being impractical, fanciful or utopian, varies with individuals and families. For example, when I say that brahmin girls should not vie with brahmin boys, seeking only engineering degrees and IT jobs, and that they should instead be trained right from their school days to prefer occupations such as teaching, arts, karnAtic and devotional music and so on, that have their own ways of flourshing even these days, this suggestion might seem downright utopian or fanciful to some; some might spurn it as impractical and crazy; but there could also be others to whom the suggestion might seem useful and practical. For example, I know of a pious, young, Tambram couple whose first daughter preferred a plush IT job, while the second listened to her parents suggestions and did a four year Humanities course in the IIT and is now teaching, among other subjects, Sanskrit.

• Expecting every Tambram father and son to do daily sandhyAvandanam is utopian these days, but suggesting that they at least get to know the efficacy of and chant the gAyatrI at least 108 AvRtties daily and increase the number gradually, should be downright practical.

To shrI kunjuppu who takes exception to what he terms as my 'lament':

Sir, my 'lament' is only about the decline of brahminical perceptions and values, which are neglected in daily life, specially by brahmin girls who are in posh jobs and rewarding higher education. I am not against girls being considered equal to boys in the areas of education and employment, so long as that does not lead to their neglecting our religion, culture, tradition and values. Girls must work in posh jobs where it is necessary for the family, but then, IMO, if girls stopped preferring the IT jobs, engineering education, and higher studies abroad, boys would then automatically have to marry girls who either do not work or in jobs that commensurate with their person and culture, and this could lead to a much peaceful situation in family life.
 
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