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Tidbits from Rig Veda

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Thank you Sri Moorthy and Sri Balasubramanian for your interest in this thread. That keeps me going.


Now, on to today's posting.


We pray to god to make us richer. Why do we want money? To eat more, dress more, live in a better house and so on. But Vedic rishis considered that the purpose of money is for gifting to others. They say, “We are liberal in gifts, and our princes (maghavans) too. Bestow on us wonderful wealth.”


6.10.5 With thy most mighty aid, confer, O Agni, wonderful wealth on us and on our princes,
Who stand preeminent, surpassing others in liberal gifts, in fame, and hero virtues.


नु | न: | चित्रम् | पुरु-वाजाभि: | ऊती | अग्ने | रयिम् | मघवत्-भ्य: | च | धेहि | ये | राधसा | श्रवसा | च | अति | अन्यान् | सु-वीर्येभि: | च | अभि | सन्ति | जनान् RV_6,10.5
 
RV 6.27.8 extols a king who showered rewards on a Rishi. His gratitude comes out in the form of a mantra.

Two wagon-teams, with damsels, twenty oxen, O Agni, Abhyavartin son of Cayamana,
The liberal King, has given me. This Dakshina of this descendant of Prthu can not be destroyed.


We have heard of ancient Tamil poets eulogizing their patron kings and receiving gifts from them.

What is the difference between these two, to mark the former a spiritual sanctimonious mantra? I do not find any.

Does it not tell us that the Veda was composed, long after creation of universe, when generations of kings had ruled?

This is not a prayer to Agni. Here, Agni is just a listener of the Rishi’s praise of the king.

This is not an isolated case. There are hundreds of such mantras praising the donors.

Such mantras could be interpolations.
 
Bharathi says that Krishna was not only the cahriot driver of Arjuna during the Mahabharata war, he was also on the opposite side. Yes, he stood on Kaurava’s side fighting against Arjuna.

போருக்கு வந்தங்கெதிர்த்த
கௌரவர் போல வந்தானும் அவன்
நேருக்கருச்சுனன் தேரிற் கசை கொண்டு நின்றதும் கண்ணனன்றோ?

The meaning is that God manifests himself everywhere.

For a more detailed explanation see my post in the link given below.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/book-extracts-reviews/11224-2986-3006-2992-2980-3007-2991-3007-2985-3021-2997-3015-2980-2990-3009-2965-2990-3021-a.html
post no.8

The idea comes from RV. In 6.47.19 Tvasta is described as being present in many places at the same time.

युजान: | हरिता | रथे | भूरि | त्वष्टा | इह | राजति | क: | विश्वाहा | द्विषत: | पक्ष: | आसते | उत | आसीनेषु | सूरिषु RV_6,47.19

Tvasta, yoking to the car the Bay Steeds, shines in many places. Who will for ever stand upon the foeman's side, even while sitting among the Suris (the highest ranking worshippers)?
 
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RV 6.51.8 speaks of the significance of namaskaram, prostrating before devas- hereunder translated as homage.

नम: | इत् | उग्रम् | नम: | आ | विवासे | नम: | दाधार |पृथिवीम् | उत | द्याम् | नम: | देवेभ्य: | नम: | ईशे | एषाम् | कृतम् | चित् | एन: | नमसा | आ | विवासे RV_6,51.8

Mighty is homage: I adopt and use it. Homage hath held in place the earth and heaven.
Homage to Gods! Homage commands and rules them. I banish even committed sin by homage
 
An excerpt from Deivathin Kural

தெய்வத்தின் குரல் (இரண்டாம் பாகம்)

வேதம் - ரிக்-யஜுஸ்-ஸாமம்-அதர்வம் – Part 4

அத்வைதிகள் விஷயத்திலும் யஜுர் வேதத்துக்கு ஒரு விசேஷம் இருக்கிறது. எந்த ஸித்தாந்தமானாலும் அதற்கு ஸ¨த்ரம், பாஷ்யம், வார்த்திகம் என்ற மூன்று இருக்கவேண்டுமென்பது வித்வான்கள் சொல்வார்கள். ஸ¨த்ரம் என்பது ஸித்தாந்ததத்தை ரத்தினச் சுருக்கமாகச் சொல்வது. பாஷ்யம் என்பது அதற்கு விரிவுரை. இந்த விரிவுரையையும் ஸாங்கோபாங்கமாக விஸ்தரித்து விளக்குவதுதான் வார்த்திகம். அத்வைத ஸித்தாந்தத்தில் " வார்த்திககாரர் " என்றால் ஸுரேச்வராச்சார்யாள் என்பவரையே குறிக்கும். அவர் எந்த பாஷ்யத்துக்கு வார்த்திகம் செய்தார் ? உபநிஷத்துக்களை ஸ¨த்தரத்தின் ஸ்தானத்தில் வைத்தால், ஆசார்யாள் (சங்கரர்) அந்த உபநிஷத்துக்களுக்கு பாஷ்யம் பண்ணினார். பிரம்ம ஸ¨த்ரம் என்பதற்கும் பாஷ்யம் செய்தார். இந்த பாஷ்யங்களை மேலும் விளக்கியே ஆசார்யாளின் நேர் சிஷ்யரான ஸுரேச்வரர் வார்த்திகம் எழுதினார். அப்படி எழுதும்போது, அப்படி எழுதும்போது, ஆசார்யாள் செய்த பத்து உபநிஷத பாஷ்யங்களையும் எடுத்துக் கொள்ளாமல், அவற்றில் இரண்டை மட்டுமே எடுத்துக் கொண்டு, அவற்றுக்கு வார்த்திகம் எழுதினார். அந்த இரண்டு, தைத்ரீய உபநிஷத்தும், பிருஹதாரண்ய உபநிஷத்தும் ஆகும். இவற்றில் தைத்திரீய உபநிஷத்தும், பிருஹதாரண்ய உபநிஷத்தும் ஆகும். இவற்றில் தைத்திரீயம் கிருஷ்ண யஜுஸைச் சேர்ந்தது ; பிருஹதாரண்யகம் சுக்ல யஜுஸைச் சேரந்தது. ஆக இரண்டுமே யஜுர் வேதம்தான்.

தசோபநிஷத்துக்கள் என்கிற முக்கியமான பத்து உபநிஷத்துக்களில் முதலாவதான ' ஈசாவாஸ்யம் ', முடிவான ' ப்ருஹதாரண்யகம் ' சுக்ல யஜுஸைச் சேர்ந்தது. ஆக இரண்டுமே யஜுர் வேதம்தான்.

தசோபநிஷத்துக்கள்தான் என்கிற முக்கியமான பத்து உபநிஷத்துக்களில் முதலாவதான ' ஈசாவாஸயம் ' முடிவான ' ப்ருஹதாரண்யகம் ' இரண்டுமே சுக்ல யஜுர் வேதத்தில் உள்ளவையே என்பதும் இந்த வேதத்துக்கு ஒரு பெருமை.

ஸாமம் என்றால் மனஸை சாந்தப்படுவது, சந்தோஷப் படுத்துவது என்று அர்த்தம். ஸாம-தான-பேத-தண்டம் என்கிறபோது, முதலில் எதிரியைக்கூட அன்பினாலே ஸ்நேஹிதமாக்கிக் கொள்வதற்கு ' ஸாமம் ' என்று பெயர் இருக்கிறது. இப்படி தேவ சக்திகளையும் பரமாத்மாவையும் நமக்கு அந்நியோந்நியமாகப் பண்ணித்தருவது ஸாம வேதம். ஒருத்தரை சந்தோஷப்படுத்த என்ன வழி ? ஸ்தோத்திரம் செய்தால் அது சந்தோஷப்படுத்துகிறது. அல்லது பாட்டு பாடினால் சந்தோஷப்படுத்துகிறது. ஸ்தோத்திரத்தையே பாட்டாகவும் கானம் செய்து விட்டால் இரட்டிப்பு ஸந்தோஷம் உண்டாக்கும் அல்லவா ? இம்மாதிரிதான் ரிக் வேதத்தில் ஸ்துதிகளாக இருக்கப்பட்ட மந்திரங்களில் பலவற்றையே ஸாம கானமாக ஆக்கித் தருவது ஸாம வேதம். ரிக் வேத மந்திரமேதான். ஆனால் ரிக்கில் முன்னே சொன்ன உதாத்தம், அநுதாத்தம் முதலான ஸ்வரங்கள் மட்டுமே இருக்க ஸாமத்திலோ கானமாகவோ அவற்றை நீட்டிப் பாட விதிகள் செய்திருக்கிறது. பிற்பாடு உண்டான ஸப்த ஸ்வர ஸங்கீதத்துக்கு மூலம் ஸாம கானம்தான். ஸாமகானத்தினால் ஸகல தேவதைகளும் அடைந்து விடுகிறார்கள். யக்ஞங்களில் ஆஹதி தருவது மட்டுமின்றி, உத்காதா என்பவர் ஸாம கானம் பண்ணுவதாலேயே தேவதாநுக்கிரஹம் ஸித்திக்கிறது.

ஸோம யக்ஞங்கள் என்பதாக, ஸோம ரஸத்தைப் பிழிந்து ஆஹ§தி கொடுத்துப் பண்ணுகிற யக்ஞங்களுக்கு ஸாமகானம் ரொம்ப முக்கியமாகும்.
ரிக்வேத மந்திரங்களேதான் என்றாலும், ஆத்ம சிரேயஸையும் தேவதா ப்ரீதியையும் விசேஷமாக அளிக்க வல்ல கானரூபத்தில் அமைந்துவிட்டதால், ஸாம வேதத்துக்குத் தனிச் சிறப்பு சொல்லப்படுகிறது. ஸ்ரீ கிருஷ்ண பரமாத்மாவே, கீதையில் " வேதானாம் ஸாமவேதோஸ்மி " என்கிறார். " வேதங்களுக்குள் ஸாமவேதமாக இருக்கிறேன் என்கிறார். " வேதங்களுக்குள் ஸாமவேதமாக இருக்கிறேன் என்கிறார். நல்லது, கெட்டது எல்லாமே அவர்தான். இருந்தாலும் தன்னுடைய தெய்வீகம் விசேஷமாகப் பிரகாசிக்கிற இடங்களை அர்ஜுனனுக்குச் சொல்லிக் கொண்டு வரும் போது, ஸாம வேதத்தையே குறிப்பிட்டுச் சொல்லியிருக்கிறார். அம்பாளுக்கு " ஸாம கான ப்ரியா " என்றே லலிதா ஸஹஸ்ர நாமத்தில் ஒரு பேர் வருகிறது. ' ரிக்வேத ப்ரியா ' ' யஜுர்வேத ப்ரியா ' என்று இல்லை. சியாம சாஸ்திரிகளும் ' ஸாம கான விநோதினி " என்று மீனாக்ஷியைப் பாடியிருக்கிறார். சிவ அஷ்டோத்திரத்தை எடுத்துக் கொண்டால், அங்கேயும் " ஸாம ப்ரியாய நம :" என்று வருகிறது. ' சந்தேக சாமம் ஒதும் வாயான் ' என்று தேவாரமும் போற்றுகிறது. ஈச்வரன், அம்பாள், விஷ்ணு என்ர மூன்று பேரையும் ரத்ன த்ரயம் என்பதாக, தேவதைகளின் உச்சஸ்தானத்தில் இருக்கப்பட்டவர்களென்று அப்பய தீக்ஷிதர் நிர்த்தாரணம் பண்ணியிருக்கிறார் (நிலை நாட்டியிருக்கிறார்) .
 
We practice namajapa. By repeating the name of god, we find solace. Has this method of worship got vedic sanction? Yes. See the mantra below, addressed to Indra.

न | ते | गिर: | अपि | मृष्ये | तुरस्य | न | सु-स्तुतिम् | असुर्यस्य | विद्वान् | सदा | ते | नाम | स्व-यश: | विवक्मि RV_7,22.5
I know and ne'er forget the hymns and praises of thee, the Conqueror, and thy strength immortal. Thy name I ever utter. Self-Refulgent
****

While chanting god’s name, one should not do it mechanically. One should feel love for Him. Just as a cow unmilked cries aloud thinking of its calf, one should feel for God. The following mantra says this.

अभि | त्वा | शूर | नोनुम: | अदुग्धा:- इव | धेनव: | ईशानम् | अस्य | जगत: | स्व:-दृशम् | ईशानम् | इन्द्र | तस्थुष: RV_7,32.22
Like kine unmilked we call aloud, Hero, to thee, and sing thy praise, Looker on heavenly light, Lord of this moving world, Lord, Indra, of what moveth not.


Please compare this with Manickvacakar’s following lines, where the saint –poet wants to cry aloud like an unmilked cow.

உற்றாரை யான்வேண்டேன்

ஊர்வேண்டேன் பேர்வேண்டேன்
கற்றாரை யான்வேண்டேன்
கற்பனவும் இனியமையும்
குற்றாலத் தமர்ந்துறையுங்
கூத்தாஉன் குரைகழற்கே
கற்றாவின் மனம்போலக்
கசிந்துருக வேண்டுவனே.
 
अजायन्त | अदिते: | दक्ष: | अजायत | दक्षात् | उ| अदिति: | परि RV_10,72.4

From Aditi was born Daksha and From Daksha was born Aditi.

It seems to us that there is a contradiction here. How can a self-produced effect be the cause of itself?

Yaska, the commentator on Veda clarifies that either they were born together or by a divne law they reciprocally gave bitrth to each other. This is not convincing to us.

Comapre this with the age-old paradoxical question, Which came first, the hen or the egg?

The problem is that we should not take the meaning of ‘being born’ literally. It should be taken to mean ‘coming after’. Then the mantra means, Daksha came after Aditi and Aditi came after Daksha.

Even then, the mystery remains.

Now compare the occurrence of day and night. Day comes after night and night comes after day. It seems quite intelligible.

In the same way, hen comes after egg and egg comes after hen.

This shows that Aditi and Daksha are the two halves of a cyclical movement. They follow each other repeatedly. They can not be separated. They were created together.
 
Here is an interpretation of the above RV verse for a common person - lyrics by Kannadasan
movie: pArththAl pasi thIrum ( பார்த்தால் பசி தீரும் )

kodi asainthathum - YouTube

lyrics can be found here http://tamilzlyrics.blogspot.com/2010/05/kodi-asainthathum-parthal-pasi-theerum.html

Lyrics and and meanings are given in deponti to the world - Two "algorithm" songs.....

From LA Times Thursday (9th May 2013) crossword puzzle has a clue
16-Across. Clue *Classic paradox and the answer is Chicken or the egg
http://crosswordcorner.blogspot.com/2013/05/thursday-may-9-2013-mark-bickham.html
 
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अजायन्त | अदिते: | दक्ष: | अजायत | दक्षात् | उ| अदिति: | परि RV_10,72.4

From Aditi was born Daksha and From Daksha was born Aditi.

It seems to us that there is a contradiction here. How can a self-produced effect be the cause of itself?

Yaska, the commentator on Veda clarifies that either they were born together or by a divne law they reciprocally gave bitrth to each other. This is not convincing to us.

Comapre this with the age-old paradoxical question, Which came first, the hen or the egg?

The problem is that we should not take the meaning of ‘being born’ literally. It should be taken to mean ‘coming after’. Then the mantra means, Daksha came after Aditi and Aditi came after Daksha.

Even then, the mystery remains.

Now compare the occurrence of day and night. Day comes after night and night comes after day. It seems quite intelligible.

In the same way, hen comes after egg and egg comes after hen.

This shows that Aditi and Daksha are the two halves of a cyclical movement. They follow each other repeatedly. They can not be separated. They were created together.

I just wonder if this means the cycle of birth and passing down of genetic material.

Just say a mother called A has a child called B.

Now B grows up and has a child called C.


B has 50%genetic material(DNA) from his mother A.

B's child C has genetic material from B (which also consists of 25% genetic material from A)


Therefore... A gave birth to B ....and B also passed down some of A's genetic material to C.

So I guess may be that is why it is said that from Aditi was born Daksha and from Daksha was born Aditi.

Cos Daksha has Aditi's DNA and the offsprings of Daksha will also inherit Aditi's DNA...that is Daksha has "given birth" to Aditi" by passing down her DNA to his offsprings.

Its like saying Child is Father to Man or our parents live through our children.

Just my thoughts..don't know if I am right...after all we are talking about creation here isn't it?
 
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अजायन्त | अदिते: | दक्ष: | अजायत | दक्षात् | उ| अदिति: | परि RV_10,72.4

From Aditi was born Daksha and From Daksha was born Aditi.



I discussed about this with a learned friend of mine and he gave his opinion on this(please note that his words are in reply to my post above).
He wishes to remain anonymous but does not mind me sharing his opinion here in forum.

NOTE: This is a reply from a learned friend of mine.




This line from Rigveda talks about the Sankalp Srushti. It is not the Maithuni and Bhautika Srishti yet.

The 7 Lokas are yet to be created. Remember Nasadiya Sukta - Neither Being nor Non-Being... that's the stage. It is absolutely erroneous to apply human logic to the Sankalp Srushti stage.

We think in terms of chronology because we are beings in one of the Sapta Lokas, which is bound by the force we call Kaal (Similar to, but not the same as Time in today's Space-Time-Motion Physics). The necessity of the principles of Cause and Effect are the outcome of Physical Time. Kaal even binds the Panch Bhutas and Devatas.

However, the Tattwas are not so rigidly bound. (And Aditi and Daksha are Tattwas - Principles that Be... they do not exist he way we imagine). These Tattwas are in the form of Sankalp Neurons of Ishwar, and they traverse in the Anant Brahmandas that originate and die every moment.

When Maharshi Yaskacharya says it in the ancient Vaidik way - "either they were born together or by a divine law they reciprocally gave birth to each other." what He means is not to create confusion, but in the typical Upanishadic way, He is asking us to understand that just as God exists in the Rope, and in the supposition of the snake on it, yet, since the rope is as much an illusion as the snake, He does not exist in them... that's the Drushtant He gives.


We must remember that the Vaidik Seers are ONE WITH PARABRAHMAN! So, when they place a sequence, they are pointing at them as constituents of a process, and are not positing their statement as some kind of an iron carved law!


Your analogy of this one process of Creation with the Creation of an individual is very interesting... and I am sure that there must be some connection there too... But DNA and Genes are still in a very Sthoola form... From your explanation, it seems that there is a slight loss of Genetic integrity as the material is passed down through generations...

In case of Aditi and Daksha that cannot happen... As they exist eternally (less eternally than Ishwar, of course, but being Tattwas, they are closer to infinity than we can imagine.) To sum it up, we should understand that Yaskacharya is asking us to delve into the subtle world - which is possible only when you have dropped the programmed mind and intellect. He uses the Either / Or in the purely Upanishadic way... He means both are true. Aditi and Daksha were born together... AND... By a divine law they gave birth to each other.

The word "Reciprocally" is not existent in the original commentary. These are unnecessary linguistic additions and extrapolations in English that destroy the integrity of our texts.
 
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Thank you Dr. Renuka and your friend too, who has given a nice explanation.

Regarding the word 'reciprocally' - i wish to say that I have not studied Yaska's work in original. This has been quoted in the book by H.H.Wilson in his translation of Rig Veda, as edited by Ravi Prakash Arya and K.L.Joshi.

Removal of the word as suggested by your friend makes the picture clearer.
 
We often hear it said that God helps those who help themselves. Here is a Vedic Mantra with the same import.

इदा | अह्न: पीतिम् | उत | व: | मदम् | धु: | न | ऋते | श्रान्तस्य | सख्याय | देवा: |
ते | नूनम् | अस्मे | ऋभव: | वसूनि | तृतीये | अस्मिन् | सवने | दधात RV_4,33.11

Gods have given you the beverage of the day and its exhilaration. They are friends of only those who work hard. Rbhus, grant us wealth at this third sacrifice of the day.
 
Here is an interesting verse. While praising Indra, a doubt arises in the mind of the rishi. “Is there really a god called Indra?”
So he says, worship Indra if at all he exists.”

Why does the rishi think so?

He gives the answer in the second half of the same mantra. “Some people say that there is no Indra. Who has seen him?”
Then the rishi asks himself, “If there is no Indra, whom shall we praise then?”

प्र | सु | स्तोमम् | भरत | वाज-यन्त: | इन्द्राय | सत्यम् | यदि | सत्यम् | अस्ति |
न | इन्द्र: | अस्ति | इति | नेम: | उ| त्व: | आह | क: | ईम् | ददर्श | कम् | अभि | स्तवाम RV_8,100.3

Striving for strength bring forth a laud to Indra, a truthful hymn if he in truth existeth.
One and another say, There is no Indra. Who hath beheld him? Whom then shall we honour?
*****

The next mantra seems to put to end all these confusions. This comes from Indra’s mouth. “Here I am. Look at me. I am the greatest. Rtam has made me very strong that I can shatter the whole world.”
(Rtam is interpreted by Sayana as the sacrifice and Griffith takes it to mean the Eternal law.)

अयम् | अस्ति | जरितः | पश्य | मा | इह | विश्वा | जातानि | अभि | अस्मि | मह्ना | ऋतस्य | मा | प्र-दिश: | वर्धयन्ति | आदर्दिर: | भुवना | दर्दरीमि RV_8,100.4

Here am I, look upon me here, O singer. All that existeth I surpass in greatness.
The Holy Law's commandments make me mighty. Rending with strength I rend the worlds asunder.
 
On hearing the following song from Tare Zamin Par (song beginning with bum bum bole), I am reminded of the mantra, which follows. Both wonder at the craftsman behind the creation.

Aisi Rangon Bhari Apni Duniya Hai Kyun
Socho To Socho Na
Pyar Se Chun Ke In Rangon Ko
Kisi Ne Sajaye Hai Apni Duniya
Upar Wala Kya Hai Apni Duniya
Upar Wala Kya Koi Kalakaar Hai

स: | इत् | सु-अपा: | भुवनेषु | आस | य: | इमे | द्यावापृथिवी | जजान |
उर्वी | गभीरे | रजसी | सुमेके | अवंशे | धीर: | शच्या | सम् | ऐरत् RV_4,56.3

Sure in the worlds he was a skillful Craftsman, he who produced these Twain the Earth and Heaven.
Wise, with his power he brought both realms, together spacious and deep, well-fashioned, unsupported.

*****
With this the serial comes to an end. Thanks to the readers who visited these posts and offered valuable comments.
Hope to meet you all in another serial, again on Rig Veda, soon.
 
On hearing the following song from Tare Zamin Par (song beginning with bum bum bole), I am reminded of the mantra, which follows. Both wonder at the craftsman behind the creation.

Aisi Rangon Bhari Apni Duniya Hai Kyun
Socho To Socho Na
Pyar Se Chun Ke In Rangon Ko
Kisi Ne Sajaye Hai Apni Duniya
Upar Wala Kya Hai Apni Duniya
Upar Wala Kya Koi Kalakaar Hai

स: | इत् | सु-अपा: | भुवनेषु | आस | य: | इमे | द्यावापृथिवी | जजान |
उर्वी | गभीरे | रजसी | सुमेके | अवंशे | धीर: | शच्या | सम् | ऐरत् RV_4,56.3

Sure in the worlds he was a skillful Craftsman, he who produced these Twain the Earth and Heaven.
Wise, with his power he brought both realms, together spacious and deep, well-fashioned, unsupported.

*****
With this the serial comes to an end. Thanks to the readers who visited these posts and offered valuable comments.
Hope to meet you all in another serial, again on Rig Veda, soon.

Dear Sri Vikrama,

Wonderful post indeed. Please let us have the treat when you find time to serve again.
God Bless you,
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.
 
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