This is for those friends who are lost to an alien culture.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIBXRS_FCo&feature=BFa&list=FL6pPRWyboWmI9zlJ-8uTsVA&lf=BFp
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Thus spake the parents.-- without comments.
- Thread starter suraju06
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prasad1
Active member
Feeling homesick is usual, also you tell your loved ones, what you think they want to hear. Wait till he gets married and his own family, things will change.
Never burden your children with guilt and remorse. Life throws many of them. Educate them, give them love, build their confidence, and set them free. Support them in their need, but don't hang on to them, you will be a dead weight.
Learn in this days of information no one is too far. Majority of us move away for various reasons. Understand the need and support their decision. For once, for the sake of your children forget about your pain, make that sacrifice (but don't rub it in).
folks,
first of all, this lady speaks well and the presentation is effective - effective enough to kindle passions, instigate guilt, but above all, how tamil can be coaxed into a powerful tool to bring forth a point of view.
from a mother's viewpoint, this is a valid arguement. as we grow older, we wish our children to be near us. many still wish to spend their last days, with their children, and many more, these days, would be just as satisfied to live nearby. and a rare few, to live as far away as possible from their puthra puthrigal. yes, that too happens.
i would discount the behaviour about food. to drink sambhar, one would do even if one is away in ludhiana or nasik, by one self or in a hostel. our own food and its ingredients, while now plentifully available all over america, europe and i think australia too, many of us, just do not bother to make the effort to prepare tasty meals.
unfortunately, there is this urban trend in india, to get prepared meals, in a pouch. i have seen them in chennai supermarkets - the same pouches that i see in indian stores here - ready to make sambhar, idlis, vadais, dosai and puliyodharai.
whether it be to keep up with the joneses, or for self realization or ambition, in today's world, moving out of india, is a reality. many plan to go only for a few years, to gain experience, or accumulate a nest egg. and end up staying far beyond the initial plans.
the other side of the story, is one of the youth. they too have a life to live. theirs is a different world from that of their parents. today's india offers a lot of opportunities, but for many, the sheer hassle and stress of living in india, is in itself, a good enough reason to go to a place where life is easier.
barring the gulf states, not many make money. enough money to be considered rich in the new lands. nowadays, comparing to indian prices, not rich even by indian standards.
once upon a time, the lady in the video, too must have been a young girl, and ambitious. who knows where she left her parents. maybe from a small village, but for her parents, the lament would have been just as loud, as she is now grousing against her missing children. that appears to be the dance of youth, which with onset of years, the newly aged appear to rue.
should the young sacrifice their ambitions and their yearnings, just to go back and live in india, to be a succour to their parents? or should the parents expect this?
first of all, this lady speaks well and the presentation is effective - effective enough to kindle passions, instigate guilt, but above all, how tamil can be coaxed into a powerful tool to bring forth a point of view.
from a mother's viewpoint, this is a valid arguement. as we grow older, we wish our children to be near us. many still wish to spend their last days, with their children, and many more, these days, would be just as satisfied to live nearby. and a rare few, to live as far away as possible from their puthra puthrigal. yes, that too happens.
i would discount the behaviour about food. to drink sambhar, one would do even if one is away in ludhiana or nasik, by one self or in a hostel. our own food and its ingredients, while now plentifully available all over america, europe and i think australia too, many of us, just do not bother to make the effort to prepare tasty meals.
unfortunately, there is this urban trend in india, to get prepared meals, in a pouch. i have seen them in chennai supermarkets - the same pouches that i see in indian stores here - ready to make sambhar, idlis, vadais, dosai and puliyodharai.
whether it be to keep up with the joneses, or for self realization or ambition, in today's world, moving out of india, is a reality. many plan to go only for a few years, to gain experience, or accumulate a nest egg. and end up staying far beyond the initial plans.
the other side of the story, is one of the youth. they too have a life to live. theirs is a different world from that of their parents. today's india offers a lot of opportunities, but for many, the sheer hassle and stress of living in india, is in itself, a good enough reason to go to a place where life is easier.
barring the gulf states, not many make money. enough money to be considered rich in the new lands. nowadays, comparing to indian prices, not rich even by indian standards.
once upon a time, the lady in the video, too must have been a young girl, and ambitious. who knows where she left her parents. maybe from a small village, but for her parents, the lament would have been just as loud, as she is now grousing against her missing children. that appears to be the dance of youth, which with onset of years, the newly aged appear to rue.
should the young sacrifice their ambitions and their yearnings, just to go back and live in india, to be a succour to their parents? or should the parents expect this?
Nara
0
Youngsters going away to USA, Australia, Europe, to pursue lucrative careers, feeling homesick, calling home to hear a loving voice, all are very moving indeed, until I was reminded of an episode I saw last week in the Nadanthathu Enna program of Vijay TV, whether it is a rerun or not I am not sure.
It was about poor parents, with no job prospects, had to leave their children to fend for themselves or in an orphanage and go elsewhere seeking work, work in fields or other minimum wage work. They can't afford to visit their own kids for months, neither can they call and inquire how their children are doing but once in months. Thanks to Vijay TV for telling their story, the ones who are the voiceless majority.
best ....
It was about poor parents, with no job prospects, had to leave their children to fend for themselves or in an orphanage and go elsewhere seeking work, work in fields or other minimum wage work. They can't afford to visit their own kids for months, neither can they call and inquire how their children are doing but once in months. Thanks to Vijay TV for telling their story, the ones who are the voiceless majority.
best ....
sangom
0
I viewed the video just now. Am not at all impressed. To me it looked antediluvian view point. Yes for even oldies like me once in long while some bit of memory from childhood, boyhood, college days, etc., come in a mood of nostalgia but it is just that....nostalgia. Enjoy it and be over. The past moment won't return in this entire universe.
On the other side I know one or two youngsters who are so clever that they put on performances like those narrated by the lady, over the phone to their parents but also sent e-mails or SMSs to their friends saying "could convincingly talk to parents so as to keep them happy and satisfied that I am still their "arumai kannu"". I have therefore reason to think about such phone talks also having been gullibly believed by that lady speaker.
Except for one or two ammaigundus brought up in real tabra ways who found everything abroad as not good and returned to their parents' home, no youngster - male or female -will come back. In fact I know of a girl who swore, shedding copious tear over her mother's shoulder (here), before going to US on an assignment that she won't stay even for one day more than the one-year period. It is now more than 25 years and the girl married a US located tabra boy, one child and has become unmanageably obese but continues in US!
On the other side I know one or two youngsters who are so clever that they put on performances like those narrated by the lady, over the phone to their parents but also sent e-mails or SMSs to their friends saying "could convincingly talk to parents so as to keep them happy and satisfied that I am still their "arumai kannu"". I have therefore reason to think about such phone talks also having been gullibly believed by that lady speaker.
Except for one or two ammaigundus brought up in real tabra ways who found everything abroad as not good and returned to their parents' home, no youngster - male or female -will come back. In fact I know of a girl who swore, shedding copious tear over her mother's shoulder (here), before going to US on an assignment that she won't stay even for one day more than the one-year period. It is now more than 25 years and the girl married a US located tabra boy, one child and has become unmanageably obese but continues in US!
I could not see the link in the first post. But from Amala's post, I guess it is from "Kalyaana maalai" debate of SUN TV. This lady made an emotional speech. Most emotional things contradict or lack practical perspective. I think there is nothing wrong in one going abroad if one finds a good opportunity either to study or to work. At the end of the day, one has to take care of himself or herself. With internet, web cam, etc., world has become much smaller. Ironically, people away from their town but yet within India would also face trying situations. It is not unique anymore to people going abroad. Sometimes, I feel I have a better "Indian" life than many Indians have in India.
One of my ex-colleagues was working in India when he lost his mother and later father in India. He could not attend both the funerals. But I could attend my father's funeral though I was away from India at the time of his death. So much so for being in India.
A child abroad is a social prestige and personal pride was the reply.
Amala: You seem to have taken a "Navaraathri special" avataar?? Good.
One of my ex-colleagues was working in India when he lost his mother and later father in India. He could not attend both the funerals. But I could attend my father's funeral though I was away from India at the time of his death. So much so for being in India.
A child abroad is a social prestige and personal pride was the reply.
Amala: You seem to have taken a "Navaraathri special" avataar?? Good.
haridasa,
same with me. i have lived in canada since 1973.
but i was there right through the sickness and last days of both my mom and dad, and did all the kriyais completely and fullly. and at the end of mummy's first year, went to kasi gaya and once again performed the rites to satisfy the living relatives. and maybe myself too.
i agree with you, that it is easier to be a brahmin outside of india.
it would be tough sell though to folks in india. no?Those who have gone away leaving their parents in India say this:
Cheers.
- This is all emotional blackmail and sentimental nonsense.
- Don’t make your children feel guilty with all these sentimental stuff.
- Once they become grown ups children should not be expected to be tied to the apron strings of their mom. They should go away, explore the world and settle down wherever they want.
- We have done this. When we heard the news of the death of our parents we went promptly to India and completed all the mandated rituals.
- When our parents were seriously ill we rushed home and were there by their side while other children from India could not do this.
- In India there are two groups-the haves and the have-nots. The pain of have-nots in living away from their children due to poverty is to be understood and discussed first. We will come to the pain of the haves later. In every discourse in this forum this conflict has to be resolved first.
- We understand the circumstances that make you stay away from us.
- But can you not try to come back? Is it such a great sacrifice—coming back?
- If this is all sentimental nonsense and emotions weighing down heavily let them be so. Without sentiments and emotions where do we stand as human beings?
- Is this country, your native village, your land just a temporary abode to be forgotten quickly as you move on?
- Don’t you yearn for the smell of your home, the smell of your land, the myriad flora and fauna which are special to your land?
- Make money when you are young in any land you want, but prudently save and come back and bring back your wealth to your land. Is this too much to expect from you?
- Don’t you think the empty feeling that the grandmother gets after seeing her grand children and hearing their voice through skype is real and very painful? Does it not occur to you that her agony comes out of a feeling of helplessness-one over which she has no control? Or is it just sentimental stuff to be dismissed with contempt?
- Don’t you miss the cultural tit-bits which have been the building blocks of your value system-like the Maarkazhi bhajan and pongal, early morning symphony of Tiruppavai and Tiruvempaavai over the public address system from every temple along with the prayer call from the mosques, and the melodious "தேன் இனிமையிலும் இயேசுவின் நாமம் திவ்ய மதுரமாமே ", the stranger in the street frantically waving (as if it is his own life and death issue) at you to catch your attention and inform you that it is a sunny midday and the headlights of your bike are on as you drive past him or the beggar couple who have made the temple திண்ணை their home with the male beggar taking care of his wife(including bathing her every day, draping her with a saree and blouse) despite the mentally deranged female spitting on him and beating him and abusing him—We can keep adding /narrating many more. The question is-Is this land just like any other land for you? If this is all sentimental nonsense, shorn of this nonsense do we still remain human?
- My son, What is the use of your coming when I will be on my death bed if I have to stare at empty space or watch silly soap operas all day in a home in loneliness. How long can I live in my past memories.
- My son,when you came out with excellent grades in your M.Tech I encouraged you and told you to go away to wherever your abilities will be recognized and wherever your thirst for knowledge will be fullfilled. But I did not ask you to go away for ever.
Cheers.
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prasad1
Active member
You do make a good case, and I understand it. (post#11).
For the generation that migrated out of home state long time ago:
1. Any place you stay 40-50 years is the home. Yes you have kinship with India, your state, your city or village. Other than cheering for the team, or war what has that migrant done for them. I agree some of the emigrant or more passionate about India now than they were before.
2. There may be no immediate family in India
3. I have spoken with emigrant from Africa, and they say that the cultural shock is too much. They feel alienated from the present day India.
4. The emigrant may not be able to go back as their children are in the country where they are.
5. By them going back they will have the same problem as their parents did.
6. Grown kids may not want to go back, or you do not want them back in India.
If you migrated say 4-5 years ago and you are still in your 20s your options are very much different, than say a person in 50s or older.
Are we as parents expect our children to support us, and how much sacrifice do we expect? Is that reasonable?
For the generation that migrated out of home state long time ago:
1. Any place you stay 40-50 years is the home. Yes you have kinship with India, your state, your city or village. Other than cheering for the team, or war what has that migrant done for them. I agree some of the emigrant or more passionate about India now than they were before.
2. There may be no immediate family in India
3. I have spoken with emigrant from Africa, and they say that the cultural shock is too much. They feel alienated from the present day India.
4. The emigrant may not be able to go back as their children are in the country where they are.
5. By them going back they will have the same problem as their parents did.
6. Grown kids may not want to go back, or you do not want them back in India.
If you migrated say 4-5 years ago and you are still in your 20s your options are very much different, than say a person in 50s or older.
Are we as parents expect our children to support us, and how much sacrifice do we expect? Is that reasonable?
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sangom
0
There may be children migrating to foreign countries because they want to prosecute higher studies, then they stay there to gain work experience and then the fabulous salaries and perquisites make them to continue there itself. May be such persons can come back and live with their parents till their demise.
But AFAIK, a vast majority of Indians, including tabra children have gone to foreign countries because they could get much better jobs and much more earnings in those foreign countries than they could ever have got in India. The affluence of those children has benefitted their parents back home also. In such cases, it is not correct to complain about the children having forsaken the parents and all that. The parents must try to emigrate and try to live with their children and thus spend the evening of their lives.
Sentiment-provoking talks like the one in the video may be good for Pattimanrams but not for real life, imho.
But AFAIK, a vast majority of Indians, including tabra children have gone to foreign countries because they could get much better jobs and much more earnings in those foreign countries than they could ever have got in India. The affluence of those children has benefitted their parents back home also. In such cases, it is not correct to complain about the children having forsaken the parents and all that. The parents must try to emigrate and try to live with their children and thus spend the evening of their lives.
Sentiment-provoking talks like the one in the video may be good for Pattimanrams but not for real life, imho.
Shri.suraju: Your 1st post is "without comments" and your post no.11 also gives both views. These things give me an impression that you are "neutral". But your finishing line in post 11 "the last few words of the speaker summed up everything" makes me think that you are against people staying overseas.
As Mr.K has mentioned, a person who has been in India and overseas for a long time understands both sides better. I am the only son who has performed rites for my parents in both Rishikesh and Varanasi (on different years) and my other two brothers who are in India have not done it (at least as yet). It is not just after death. I am the one who celebrated my father's last birthday to his utmost satisfaction. I had mentioned this in another thread too. We care when the elders (or parents) are still alive.
We are also people with heart. We also laugh and we also cry. We do have emotions. We are not just money chasers. Practicality supersedes sentiments.
As Mr.K has mentioned, a person who has been in India and overseas for a long time understands both sides better. I am the only son who has performed rites for my parents in both Rishikesh and Varanasi (on different years) and my other two brothers who are in India have not done it (at least as yet). It is not just after death. I am the one who celebrated my father's last birthday to his utmost satisfaction. I had mentioned this in another thread too. We care when the elders (or parents) are still alive.
We are also people with heart. We also laugh and we also cry. We do have emotions. We are not just money chasers. Practicality supersedes sentiments.
sangom
0
Shri Siva,
We are not just money chasers. Practicality supersedes sentiments.
Well said. But some children do turn to be mere money chasers, some others chase money and become Joroo ka gulaam, and so on. This world has place for many types of people, imho.
Dear Mr. Haridasa Siva,
These are my views:
1. I would like my children to go anywhere in the world where their talent is recognized and needed: where their thirst for knowledge will be welcome and avenues for fulfilling that is available: where they can compete with the best minds in the world and enjoy the thrill and benefit of such encounters.
2. I will not burden them with my emotional needs when they have the energy and opportunities to achieve all that I have said in 1 above. My needs can wait.
3. But I will certainly expect that they do not get lost in the alien land, culture and civilization completely. I will not accept a quid pro quo in which I have to exchange my love for my country, my culture and my values even if it is a billion dollar fortune that I will get.
4. After making it big in that alien land please do come back to this land with all your wealth and spend time with elders and friends, in your village, in your school, college etc.,
I think this is the plea in the words திரும்பி வாங்கப்பா. கஷ்ட்டமா இருக்கு.
Cheers.
These are my views:
1. I would like my children to go anywhere in the world where their talent is recognized and needed: where their thirst for knowledge will be welcome and avenues for fulfilling that is available: where they can compete with the best minds in the world and enjoy the thrill and benefit of such encounters.
2. I will not burden them with my emotional needs when they have the energy and opportunities to achieve all that I have said in 1 above. My needs can wait.
3. But I will certainly expect that they do not get lost in the alien land, culture and civilization completely. I will not accept a quid pro quo in which I have to exchange my love for my country, my culture and my values even if it is a billion dollar fortune that I will get.
4. After making it big in that alien land please do come back to this land with all your wealth and spend time with elders and friends, in your village, in your school, college etc.,
I think this is the plea in the words திரும்பி வாங்கப்பா. கஷ்ட்டமா இருக்கு.
Cheers.
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Yeh to sach hai. Lougon Joroo ka gulaam (ho sakthe) hain. Gulaam honaa to desi ka khoon me hai na??!!:scared:
Shri.suraju
Then I come under your "wish list" :tinfoil3: I and my family still hold Indian passport and have not even taken residence here even though we are eligible for it by virtue of the length of our stay here.
Then I come under your "wish list" :tinfoil3: I and my family still hold Indian passport and have not even taken residence here even though we are eligible for it by virtue of the length of our stay here.
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have you considered canada?
If you get me a job, I would take the next flight to Canada.
Btw, Bharathi sang, "paarukkulle nalla naadu engal bharatha naadu". It is now becoming "Bar"ukkulle ulla naadu athu bhaaratha naadu"!!:flame:
have you considered canada?
Oh Canada! The land of maple trees and the mounted police!
prasad1
Active member
If you migrated say 4-5 years ago and you are still in your 20s your options are very much different, than say a person in 50s or older.
Are we as parents expect our children to support us, and how much sacrifice do we expect? Is that reasonable?
To come back to what?
Have you been reading postings here, so called 'happy' people have so much of guilt to pile on you, with their petty thoughts about Brahmins, nb. Why would anybody want to return. If you had the misfortune of being born as TB, you are respected everywhere except Tamil Nadu IMO.
Look at Nacchi, tsb, all veteran here are disgusted with the pettiness and viciousness of the attack are running away from this site.
Are we as parents expect our children to support us, and how much sacrifice do we expect? Is that reasonable?
To come back to what?
Have you been reading postings here, so called 'happy' people have so much of guilt to pile on you, with their petty thoughts about Brahmins, nb. Why would anybody want to return. If you had the misfortune of being born as TB, you are respected everywhere except Tamil Nadu IMO.
Look at Nacchi, tsb, all veteran here are disgusted with the pettiness and viciousness of the attack are running away from this site.
Well..well.. the lady spoke well.. and Salomon Pappaiya was enjoying her SPEECH...
For me similar feelings overwhelmed me when I moved from the very small village to Madurai College to do my PUC (later B.Sc etc). The coziness of the village is always an attraction for me.. I hated the dirt and crowds of the big town like Madurai...
In the first break after 3 months (around Oct, 1967), I longed to get back to the serenity of my small village where we didn't have running water, no toilet at home, but enjoyed "going out" for Nature's call and cleaning ourselves in the same pond where we swam with joy and even drank water when thirsty!
The jokes we made on younger kids and giggle yelling "Ithu Eppadi Irukku.. ha.. ha." then get kicked by the older kids for not behaving right!
Those things I missed in Madurai....
Then.. I flew alone one day on Sep 15, 1979 to Chicago with just $8 in my pocket... didn't know how my first night in the new land was going to be... whether anyone would come to receive me in the Mafia town of Al Capone!
Oh well, my professor was there to receive me, and took me to the nearby Greek Island to eat an exotic Greek dinner!
I never thought such things were possible for a kid from a very small town in Ramnad Taluk, (that too coming from the Bottom of the Caste Hierarchy!!!).
Oh well... the ride so far is exhilarating... intoxicating.. in a way UNREAL....am enjoying..
Now, my son is in Haiti doing a volunteer service in a small rural town - the most desolate place even Thomas Hardy will consider it weird and exotic much wilder than the town he describes in his The Return of the Native!!!
When I Skype him.. he is thrilled to hear my boisterous voice (there is no broadband connection in Haiti!!)....
We all do things that interest our psyche...
More later.
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"...should the young sacrifice their ambitions and their yearnings, just to go back and live in india, to be a succour to their parents? or should the parents expect this?" K asked in post #5.
Well.... very good question, K.
My mom and dad were very thrilled that I went to college in a "big" town called Madurai...for them that was an unbelievable achievement: My mom stopped going to the small hut school because she reached puberty.. and dad could not go beyond 7 grade because there was no school beyond that in my cozy small village.
Later.. in my time, thanks to the vision of the Paramount Leader K Kamaraj, we had high school and I attended it, but SSLC Exam couldn't be conducted in that School.... we had to go to Ramnad city to do that very important Examination of our lives! That was most torturous thing for village kids to endure... in an unknown town, living for a week in Ramnad Raja's Horse House!! No place to get water... or anything.. the town was very rude and inhuman for kids coming from rural towns!!!
In spite her sincere and serious religiosity in orthodoxy, my mom suffered from stomach cancer and died at the age of 68, two years before I came to the US...
My dad was a very proud man... for his kid was the FIRST to get a PhD in all the land that he has traveled.. many of the people asked him "what the hell is this PhD?"
He used to tell, "Guys, you just can't understand if I explain it to you, so please don't ask me"!!!! Lol
After I came to the US, he wanted to build a house to show off to his "friends and relatives"... I told him that "Our house that my grandpa built is the REAL lucky house, historically important house, you should never move out of it.... I dissuaded him to build new house!"
I used to write long letters to him.... he enjoyed all that...and he died of old age at 88....
He never asked me to come back to take care of him.... for he knew that the Color of My Parachute is quite different from that of his......
That's the story of my parents and what happened in our lives....
Cheers.
Well.... very good question, K.
My mom and dad were very thrilled that I went to college in a "big" town called Madurai...for them that was an unbelievable achievement: My mom stopped going to the small hut school because she reached puberty.. and dad could not go beyond 7 grade because there was no school beyond that in my cozy small village.
Later.. in my time, thanks to the vision of the Paramount Leader K Kamaraj, we had high school and I attended it, but SSLC Exam couldn't be conducted in that School.... we had to go to Ramnad city to do that very important Examination of our lives! That was most torturous thing for village kids to endure... in an unknown town, living for a week in Ramnad Raja's Horse House!! No place to get water... or anything.. the town was very rude and inhuman for kids coming from rural towns!!!
In spite her sincere and serious religiosity in orthodoxy, my mom suffered from stomach cancer and died at the age of 68, two years before I came to the US...
My dad was a very proud man... for his kid was the FIRST to get a PhD in all the land that he has traveled.. many of the people asked him "what the hell is this PhD?"
He used to tell, "Guys, you just can't understand if I explain it to you, so please don't ask me"!!!! Lol
After I came to the US, he wanted to build a house to show off to his "friends and relatives"... I told him that "Our house that my grandpa built is the REAL lucky house, historically important house, you should never move out of it.... I dissuaded him to build new house!"
I used to write long letters to him.... he enjoyed all that...and he died of old age at 88....
He never asked me to come back to take care of him.... for he knew that the Color of My Parachute is quite different from that of his......
That's the story of my parents and what happened in our lives....
Cheers.
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Can a married Tamil Brahmin woman also pray to her parents' kula deivam?
