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This might be the story of all upward mobile person of Indian descent.

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prasad1

Well-known member
Very interesting piece written by Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyer

(Veteran Journalist) about himself. Published in The Times of India.


In 1992, I wrote a book titled Towards Globalisation. I did not
realize at the time that this was going to be the history of my
family.

Last week, we celebrated the wedding of my daughter, Pallavi. A
brilliant student, she had won scholarships to Oxford University and
the London School of Economics. In London, she met Julio, a young man
from Spain. The two decided to take up jobs in Beijing, China. Last
week, they came over from Beijing to Delhi to get married. The wedding
guests included 70 friends from North America, Europe and China.

That may sound totally global, but arguably my elder son Shekhar has
gone further. He too won a scholarship to Oxford University, and then
taught for a year at a school in Colombo. Next he went to Toronto,
Canada, for higher studies. There he met a German girl, Franziska.

They both got jobs with the International Monetary Fund in Washington
DC, USA. This meant that they constantly travelled on IMF business to
disparate countries. Shekhar advised and went on missions to Sierra
Leone, Seychelles, Kyrgyzstan and Laos. Franziska went to Rwanda,
Tajikistan, and Russia. They interrupted these perambulations to get
married in late 2003.

My younger son, Rustam, is only 15. Presumably he will study in
Australia, marry a Nigerian girl, and settle in Peru.

Readers might think that my family was born and bred in a jet plane.
The truth is more prosaic. Our ancestral home is Kargudi, a humble,
obscure village in Tanjore district, Tamil Nadu. My earliest memories
of it are as a house with no toilets, running water, or pukka road.

When we visited, we disembarked from the train at Tanjore, and then
travelled 45 minutes by bullock cart to reach the ancestral home. My
father was one of six children, all of whom produced many children (I
myself had three siblings). So, two generations later, the size of the
Kargudi extended family (including spouses) is over 200. Of these,
only three still live in the village. The rest have moved across India
and across the whole world, from China to Arabia to Europe to America.

This one Kargudi house has already produced 50 American citizens. So,
dismiss the mutterings of those who claim that globalisation means
westernisation. It looks more like Aiyarisation, viewed from Kargudi.

What does this imply for our sense of identity? I cannot speak for the
whole Kargudi clan, which ranges from rigid Tamil Brahmins to
beef-eating, pizza-guzzling, hip-hop dancers. But for me, the
Aiyarisation of the world does not mean Aiyar domination. Nor does it
mean Aiyar submergence in a global sea. It means acquiring multiple
identities, and moving closer to the ideal of a brotherhood of all
humanity. I remain quite at home sitting on the floor of the Kargudi
house on a mat of reeds, eating from a banana leaf with my hands. I
feel just as much at home eating noodles in China, steak in Spain,
teriyaki in Japan and cous-cous in Morocco. I am a Kargudi villager, a
Tamilian, a Delhi-wallah, an Indian, a Washington Redskins fan, and a
citizen of the world, all at the same time and with no sense of
tension or contradiction.

When I see the Brihadeeswara Temple in Tanjore, my heart swells and I
say to myself "This is mine." I feel exactly the same way when I see
the Church of Bom Jesus in Goa, or the Jewish synagogue in Cochin, or
the Siddi Sayed mosque in Ahmedabad: these too are mine. I have
strolled so often through the Parks at Oxford University and along the
canal in Washington, DC, that they feel part of me. As my family
multiplies and intermarries, I hope one day to look at the Sagrada
Familia cathedral in Barcelona and Rhine river in Germany and think,
"These too are mine."

We Aiyars have a taken a step toward the vision of John Lennon.
Imagine there's no country, It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or
die for, And no religion too.

My father's generation was the first to leave the village, and loosen
its regional shackles. My father became a chartered accountant in
Lahore, an uncle became a hotel manager in Karachi, and we had an aunt
in Rangoon.

My generation loosened the shackles of religion. My elder brother
married a Sikh, my younger brother married a Christian, and I married
a Parsi. The next generation has gone a step further, marrying across
the globe.
Globalisation for me is not just the movement of goods and capital, or
even of Aiyars. It is a step towards Lennon's vision of no country.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope one day
you'll join us. And the world will be one.........








 
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Yamaka

New member
"My generation loosened the shackles of religion. My elder brother
married a Sikh, my younger brother married a Christian, and I married
a Parsi. The next generation has gone a step further, marrying across
the globe.
Globalisation for me is not just the movement of goods and capital, or
even of Aiyars. It is a step towards Lennon's vision of no country.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope one day
you'll join us. And the world will be one........." OP #1

The key is "loosening the shackles of religion" - I agree.

I might add walking away from religion, caste, color and all other known Devils of Society!

They are a menace to the Egalitarian Society that Yamaka is aspiring to build for the future!!

Wait & watch
 
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biswa

New member
Why does he consider himself an Aiyar? Once he starts eating steak, there is no point calling yourself an Aiyar. Otherwise the term loses all meaning. Anybody can be an Aiyar or an Aiyar can be anybody.

Just say that you are a globalized equal-opportunist.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
aiyar can mean a non denominational last name.

in south afraica, we can chetty, moodli, padayachi, pillay, gounder - all last names, without the caste connotation. it means that the ancestors of the current day tamils of south africa came from these castes.

same goes for west indies.

maybe one day india will be like that too.

unless one says that aiyar is his caste nomenclature, let us treat it as just a last name.
 

biswa

New member
Mr K perhaps you did not read his post very carefully, so let me quote. He is clearly harping on his Aiyarism, besides comparing himself to John Lennon. Hence the steak perhaps.

But for me, the
Aiyarisation of the world does not mean Aiyar domination. Nor does it
mean Aiyar submergence in a global sea. It means acquiring multiple
identities, and moving closer to the ideal of a brotherhood of all
humanity.
 

renuka

Well-known member
This story reminds me of a tamil movie I once saw where the actor in the main lead who was using his caste name Devar was asked by a young Brahmin boy why when he(main lead actor) doesnt believe in caste he still calls himself Devar?


I am somewhat always wary of the Indian who tries to project an international image..they are always not what they seem to be.
They might claim all sorts of things even Atheism but the only way to find out if they are really what they claim is when they are asleep give them one tight slap on their face and dont be suprised to hear them screaming "Narayana! Narayana!"

Disclaimer: This post of mine is purely fictional and has no bearing or resemblance to anyone alive or dead.
If it corresponds to anyone its purely co-incidental.
No one was hurt or maimed in the making of this post.
No ones name was also mentioned in this post.
 
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This article is worth reading. But my problem is, as a father of two girl children, and settling in Bangalore for the past 15 years, I am bit scarred to accepting or digesting the mixing of caste or religion etc etc. If it happens in any of my relatives houses or in my neighbors houses, it is not affecting me much. But I don't know whether I can digest this, when it happen to me :( I too wants to be a open minded person, but how to accept cultural shocks ?? No idea.
 

renuka

Well-known member
This article is worth reading. But my problem is, as a father of two girl children, and settling in Bangalore for the past 15 years, I am bit scarred to accepting or digesting the mixing of caste or religion etc etc. If it happens in any of my relatives houses or in my neighbors houses, it is not affecting me much. But I don't know whether I can digest this, when it happen to me :( I too wants to be a open minded person, but how to accept cultural shocks ?? No idea.


Believe me its not easy for parents.I am talking about inter religious marriages for example out here where I stay its legally compulsory to convert to marry a muslim.
At least in India there is no legal compulsion for conversion.

After witnessing that..I have realized that nothing is really in our hands.Just do our duty for our children and do not even hope anything.
We only get hurt when there is expectations.
 
You are correct. I have witnessed this in one of my cousins case. She got converted to christian to get married a guy who she fall in love. Now her mother, who was planning from her childhood for her marriage, sold all jewels, which were ready for the daughter's marriage, and gave some cash to them and now feeling depressed and not even attending to any of our family side functions. For her second daughter, she was forced to search in christian community and finally got one person, who is very very low in studies as well as status to them. Both the daughters are suffering and expecting their parents to survive :(
This type of unsuccessful marriages make me more scared :(
 

renuka

Well-known member
You are correct. I have witnessed this in one of my cousins case. She got converted to christian to get married a guy who she fall in love. Now her mother, who was planning from her childhood for her marriage, sold all jewels, which were ready for the daughter's marriage, and gave some cash to them and now feeling depressed and not even attending to any of our family side functions. For her second daughter, she was forced to search in christian community and finally got one person, who is very very low in studies as well as status to them. Both the daughters are suffering and expecting their parents to survive :(
This type of unsuccessful marriages make me more scared :(

Thats why I have made up my mind when my son comes of a marriageable age..let him choose his own mate and let him decide.
I can only guide thats all.

Parents always think we can mould the future of our kids like a pot but we are only the Upadana Karana(Material Cause of existence for our children),the Nimmita Karana(Instrumental Cause) and the Sahakari Karana(Supporting Cause) for a specific period of time and most important fact we forget is we do not own the pot!!!
 

sarang

Well-known member
Conversion to islam is necessary for the marriage to be accepted by the muslim family and community. otherwise the boy will ditch the girl when family/society pressure insists on conversion. Civil registered marriage is not accepted.I am told that for a church wedding the couple have sign an affidavit that the children will be baptised.

Believe me its not easy for parents.I am talking about inter religious marriages for example out here where I stay its legally compulsory to convert to marry a muslim.
At least in India there is no legal compulsion for conversion.

After witnessing that..I have realized that nothing is really in our hands.Just do our duty for our children and do not even hope anything.
We only get hurt when there is expectations.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Conversion to islam is necessary for the marriage to be accepted by the muslim family and community. otherwise the boy will ditch the girl when family/society pressure insists on conversion. Civil registered marriage is not accepted.I am told that for a church wedding the couple have sign an affidavit that the children will be baptised.

I am always amazed that those of other faiths some how always have their way.
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
I am always amazed that those of other faiths some how always have their way.

IMO, that is because of Muslim's and Christian's family values instilled in by parents.

I am yet to find Muslims and Christians in my social circle, rediculing their religion and religious philosophies inspite of their progress in this fast developing globalized world.

There are many Hindu guys and girls who are all very compassionate by heart and very intelligent by their brain to fall is love with Muslims and Christians as a true humanist. So, they are finding their parents ruining their choice of living and either go ahead with IR marriage or remain bitter towards their parents in any ways possible.

May be present generation Hindus are well in sych. with scientific world and are relieving themselves from the clutches of Hindu philosophies, that they were been some how burdened with.

Than what about the philosophies of Chritianity and Islam? That's the other social question may be. As an induvidual, such a Hindu may be convincing onself as progressing Humanist who had get rid of shackles of Hindu philosophies/tradition with the intention of acheiving true Globalization.



 

renuka

Well-known member
IMO, that is because of Muslim's and Christian's family values instilled in by parents.

I am yet to find Muslims and Christians in my social circle, rediculing their religion and religious philosophies inspite of their progress in this fast developing globalized world.

There are many Hindu guys and girls who are all very compassionate by heart and very intelligent by their brain to fall is love with Muslims and Christians as a true humanist. So, they are finding their parents ruining their choice of living and either go ahead with IR marriage or remain bitter towards their parents in any ways possible.

May be present generation Hindus are well in sych. with scientific world and are relieving themselves from the clutches of Hindu philosophies, that they were been some how burdened with.

Than what about the philosophies of Chritianity and Islam? That's the other social question may be. As an induvidual, such a Hindu may be convincing onself as progressing Humanist who had get rid of shackles of Hindu philosophies/tradition with the intention of acheiving true Globalization.





I agree with you 100% Ravi.Just to add I know of a person here a practising Hindu who brought up her son well and instilled all Hindu values in him but still he chose to marry a person of a different religion and compulsory conversion took place.
It hurt her bad but now when she sees any unmarried hindu guys and girls..she somehow tries to match them up so.
And some of these have led to marriage cos she wants to see Hindu married to a Hindu even though she didnt get that chance with her son.

But there is also another breed of Hindus when things dont go right they blame God and start even poisoning the minds of other young Hindus and tarnish the name of the religion.

You decide who is better of the two.
 

amala

Well-known member
I feel that Muslims and Christians (proper church going ones, not nominal ones) are very proud of their faith and however successful or highly educated are always humble and dedicate all their success to their God.

Unlike the Hindus for have a exaggerated sense of self-importance and pride and the more successful, the more they seem to lose touch with their faith.
 

amala

Well-known member
From your post Renu: I've asked many Muslims and Christians don't you feel angry with God when things don't go right and they never do. They are frankly quite horrified by that thought.They always, always feel God is right and anything that happens is in their best interest, even though now you may not be able to see it. Such immense, inexplicable faith that seem to have in their God. Its just wow....Hindus OTOH seem a very doubtful lot :). Perhaps this is attributed to the philosphising "culture" of the religion.
 

renuka

Well-known member
From your post Renu: I've asked many Muslims and Christians don't you feel angry with God when things don't go right and they never do. They are frankly quite horrified by that thought.They always, always feel God is right and anything that happens is in their best interest, even though now you may not be able to see it. Such immense, inexplicable faith that seem to have in their God. Its just wow....Hindus OTOH seem a very doubtful lot :). Perhaps this is attributed to the philosphising "culture" of the religion.


Agreed Amala,

I have seen this when there is death of a very young child.

Muslim be saying "God I know its Your will but please bless the kids soul"

Christian will be saying "God called the kid back fast cos he/she is an angel"

Hindu will be saying "God how much pooja I have done for you..but is this what I get? Are you a stone?"

You see even Tamil devotional movies..when things go wrong they will be calling God a stone..cant u see? are you blind? etc
I have never seen a Tamil Movie where a christian goes to church and fights with God.
Dont know what the F the censor board in India does.

I guess Hindus have had too much freedom cos we are the only religion that doesnt bind us we are born to be free.
But some misuse this freedom and take the personal God concept too personally and start disrespecting God.

You know sometimes we dont need Ahimsa concept for such individuals..as the saying goes ...
|| अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च||

Ahimsa paramo dharma dharma himsa tathaiva ca

Non-violence is the ultimate Dharma. And SO TOO IS VIOLENCE IN THE SERVICE OF DHARMA

(Of course, violence here encompasses - strong opposition - whether through the mind, speech or action)

P.S. Words in blue are not mine..my friend got it from some source and wrote it in another forum where he was having a similar debate.
 
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OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
The realities of life can be really scary. We are so far from the society in traditional parts of India, the social pressure will be very difficult to bear. Even if you accept, there will always be others. We are social being and generally have to be accepted by our friends and family.
Satish, Please don't say it is Unsuccessful. Success in marriage is between the couple. If they want to make it a success they can do it.

Renuka post#7
I love the disclaimers.
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
I feel that Muslims and Christians (proper church going ones, not nominal ones) are very proud of their faith and however successful or highly educated are always humble and dedicate all their success to their God.

Unlike the Hindus for have a exaggerated sense of self-importance and pride and the more successful, the more they seem to lose touch with their faith.

I endorse this post
 
N

natpushpa

Guest
[FONT=&quot]The inter faith marriage is still a stigma in Indian society. There are many cases how parents or parents-in-laws harassing the newly interfaith married couples.[/FONT] Why so much howling is for an inter-faith marriage? Analysis shows that the greater the orthodoxy, inculcated in a family, the acuity of faith is strong. In other words, whether family is genuinely fear God or not but the prestige and prejudice is more conceivable than to be flexible to interfaith marrying daughter. For most, it is not endurable if one of its daughters is being subjected to conjugal bliss especially with a Muslim boy. In such event, the orthodoxy and religious faction remain vehemently tough on the side daughter’s parents, and clandestine and undercover marriages do happen with duress and distress. [FONT=&quot]I do remember a Hindi old song:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Na Hindu banega ya Musalman banega”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[FONT=&quot]“Insan ki aulad hey Insan banega”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](He is born neither a Hindu nor a Muslim; He is born a human being; he will live a human being.) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]There is a rapid rate of intermarriage among people of different faiths[/FONT] These facts are indicative of the high degree of assimilation and tolerance .This is taken as evidence of the [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT] declining role of faith and religious identity in the minds of many young[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]. Natpushpa
 
OP
OP
prasad1

prasad1

Well-known member
The inter faith marriage is still a stigma in Indian society. There are many cases how parents or parents-in-laws harassing the newly interfaith married couples. Why so much howling is for an inter-faith marriage? Analysis shows that the greater the orthodoxy, inculcated in a family, the acuity of faith is strong. In other words, whether family is genuinely fear God or not but the prestige and prejudice is more conceivable than to be flexible to interfaith marrying daughter. For most, it is not endurable if one of its daughters is being subjected to conjugal bliss especially with a Muslim boy. In such event, the orthodoxy and religious faction remain vehemently tough on the side daughter’s parents, and clandestine and undercover marriages do happen with duress and distress. I do remember a Hindi old song:
“Na Hindu banega ya Musalman banega”
“Insan ki aulad hey Insan banega”

(He is born neither a Hindu nor a Muslim; He is born a human being; he will live a human being.) There is a rapid rate of intermarriage among people of different faiths These facts are indicative of the high degree of assimilation and tolerance .This is taken as evidence of the
declining role of faith and religious identity in the minds of many young. Natpushpa

We humans live in society. The society expects certain norm, to be included. We still are scared of rejection, to an average person the pressures of society are too much. So generally we bend so as not to break. There are some people with strong conviction, who would rather break than bend. They either have given up on that society, or do not care what others think. But the mythical world of Bollywood does not happen all the time.
 
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natpushpa

Guest
Dear Sri Renuka, Happy to note that. Yes the last resort is only The Hindu Dharma, Which is eternal. Natpushpa.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Sri Renuka, Happy to note that. Yes the last resort is only The Hindu Dharma, Which is eternal. Natpushpa.

I agree with you.Thats why I like active progressive thinking Swamijis.
They take great steps to reinstate Dharma.

But you know don't be suprised that this might not go down too well with many so called liberal Hindus or self appointed reformist.

wait and watch!!!
 
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