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The 'Thayir" I made is watery and took 12 hours

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Servall

New member
Friends:

I know we all have problems, there is economic melt-down, unemployment, sickness, poverty...but my priority this morning is more severe!!

My wife made thayir last night. It turned out to be too watery and took 12 hours to come to fruition!!

This is not the first time it happened. She usually makes it out of combination of 2% and 1% milk that may have resulted in being watery; we tried to make it full 2% and the result is not any different. My questions:

1. Why is it watery; I remember my mom used to make it and it was rock solid and you practically needed a hacksaw to cut through it!!
2. She kept it inside an oven about 7pm last night with just a light on to give it some warmth and it was only done about 7 am this morning. I hear it should take only 4-5 hours. Why is that?

The damn thing nearly ruined her sleep last night. I have some deiverables for my meeting in Pittsburgh next week and cannot nearly concentrate!!

Those members who are able to make thayir the old fashioned way hard solid and in the least time, please help.
 

sangom

Well-known member
Milk should be well boiled and the small amount of curd used for உறை குத்த (starting the fermentation process) should be of the desired quality which should be added within an hour or two after boiling. Using milk cooker sometimes creates problem; the milk should be boiled till it rises (பொங்கி வரணும்). We "breed" the same type of lactobacillii to ferment the curd. Since you seem to be located in US, I do not know what are the constraints there. But one useful thing may be to get some small amount (one or two tablespoonfuls) of good "thayir" from friend's house and use it with normal milk. (I don't know what is meant by 2% and 1% milk; we here know only about milk obtained from the cow or she-buffalo :)).

Keeping on microwave oven is not conducive to good curd formation because the entire milk ought to have uniform temperature. Keeping the milk vessel in a suitable thermal container like casserole or something and mixing the உறை தயிர் when the milk is lukewarm may be a good idea.

Lastly, use the same vessel/set of vessels for making curd and ensure that they are cleaned very well , including the dishwashing liquid traces because trace of that can also spoil the curd formation. Cleaning the vessels manually may be better.
 
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Servall

New member
Sangom Sir:

Your answer is worth a thesis document!! and thanks.

1. 2% and 1% define the fat content, the homogenized milk would be the thickest milk without any fat being removed (without being 'kadayal') whereas the 2% or 1% will relate to the degree of fat being removed 1% being the thinnest milk. We obviously dont want a very fat thayir hence we use 2 or 1% milk!!

2. We boil the milk in microwave and let it boil, so as you say the milk does come to a full boil.

3. The quantity of culture to be added does sound like a constraint and would watch for it!!

4. Being cold here, leaving it overnight out on the counter does not give it enough warmth so we create an artificial warmth by putting it inside an oven with a light!!

5. One of our friends told my wife this morning that she puts a (vatthal milagai) inside the urakuthina thayir to speed up the fermentation process!! That sounds like it gives an enhanced chemical reaction to do the job?

We will refine the process based on your suggestions and keep you posted!!

Thanks again (I am longing for a good thayir and more milagai mix sometime soon)
 

sangom

Well-known member
Shri Servall,

It is not vatthal miLagai but green chilli cut lengthwise, but here people use it as substitute for the culture and not in addition; as an addition it never worked for us.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
i live in toronto, and i am the thayir maker in my home. here are some notes from 20 years of thayir making..

- milk can be boiled in the microwave. in fact it is easier this way, because for say 1 litre, you can know before hand to the minute, the point of boil. So it is easy for the lazy guy, to just set the microwave and wander away. The milk does not boil and spill over.

-however since my last visit to chennai,, I became a fan of milk cookers, and now we boil our milk in milk cookers. The shrill whistle is enough even to wake the dead and prevent burnout of the vessel. However I found the milk has not reached the boiling point when the whistle starts. There is apparently no effect to the forming of the thayir.
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-For the culture, it is best taken from the previous thayir or borrowed. I have also found that certain store bought buttermilk makes good thayir, if you add ½ cup for every litre. I guess this is due to the low potency of the culture. After a couple of cycles, the potency reaches what we are familiar with, and for a litre, a teaspoon of culture is enough
-
-However, certain brands of buttermilk have additives like gum Arabica, and the result thayir is a stiringy goo. If there are no additives to the store butter milk, good thayir is formed. So too from store bought Balkan plain thayir

-Since I live in a cold place, I place the paathram inside the oven; I switch on only the oven light, to provide some ambient warmth. DO NOT SWITCH ON THE OVEN.
-
-I have also tried putting the red chilly in the hope a getty thayir will result. It makes no difference.

- i normally use 2% milk; get as thick thayir as homegenised (3%) milk. no difference. have treid with 1% and get the same consistency.
 
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Servall

New member
Thank you K' sir.

You just confirmed that our process is not much different from yours. There is obviously a little variable that throws up off the loop and hopefully fine tuning based on all your suggestions, we will be back on making the right stuff.

Good day.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
Thank you K' sir.

You just confirmed that our process is not much different from yours. There is obviously a little variable that throws up off the loop and hopefully fine tuning based on all your suggestions, we will be back on making the right stuff.

Good day.

also, milk expiry date might be a factor. forgot to mention that...
 

valli

New member
Dear Servall

Of late I have been using 'Easy Yo' yoghurt maker and it works best for me. Don't know whether it is available in your place or not!

'Easy Yo' yoghurt maker is made of two parts - a. A cylindrical flask shaped thing and b. An 1 litre cylindrical jar called 'yoghurt jar'.

I use full cream milk powder. Fill the the yoghurt jar with full cream milk powder upto the level - 300 ml. Add warm water till the mark of 800 ml. Add yoghurt to it (the company also sells instant plain yoghurt sachets if you don't want to borrow from your friends and want to make it from scratch).

Now fill 3/4th of the cylindrical flask with boiling hot water, place the yoghurt jar inside it and close the flask with its lid. Done.

Beautiful thick yoghurt the next day morning! If it is very cold weather, I leave it till next day afternoon or evening and it should sure set by that time!

Cheers!
 

Nara

Well-known member
Servall, you got some really nice pointers, let me also add my two cents.

The most important factors are (i) the original culture, and (ii) temperature of milk when culture added, (iii) keeping the vessels in a dry normal temperature space, not too cold, not hot like switched on oven.

Since you are just getting started I would suggest you go for the most optimal process.

  • Use whole milk, once you have developed a good culture you can wind down to 2%. Don't go below 2%.
  • Borrow best culture from a friend, this is perhaps the most important part
  • Don't use microwave initially until you develop good culture, use milk cooker
  • Once boiled, pour milk in small vessels, not too big, not too small and let it cool down to slightly warmer than room temperature
  • Add culture, be fairly liberal initially, you can experiment over time for optimal amount of culture
  • Put a lid on the vessels and place them inside the oven (NOT turned on), we use a styrofoam box.
  • Do not disturb by removing the lid to check, until after a clear 7 or 8 hours.
I think you will be off to tasty yogurt soon enough :)

Cheers!
 
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Servall

New member
Valli Madam and Nara Sir:

I use full cream milk powder. Fill the the yoghurt jar with full cream milk powder upto the level - 300 ml. Add warm water till the mark of 800 ml. Add yoghurt to it (the company also sells instant plain yoghurt sachets if you don't want to borrow from your friends and want to make it from scratch).

1. Valli Madam please do not take me wrong. I love your machine except I would rather like my thayir made out of fresh milk and not cream powder. Can I not still use your machine using real fresh milk and not powder?
2. Nara Sir:
  • Use whole milk, once you have developed a good culture you can wind down to 2%. Don't go below 2%.
  • Borrow best culture from a friend, this is perhaps the most important part
  • Don't use microwave initially until you develop good culture, use milk cooker
  • Once boiled, pour milk in small vessels, not too big, not too small and let it cool down to slightly warmer than room temperature
  • Add culture, be fairly liberal initially, you can experiment over time for optimal amount of culture
  • Put a lid on the vessels and place them inside the oven (NOT turned on), we use a styrofoam box.
  • Do not disturb by removing the lid to check, until after a clear 7 or 8 hours.

I do most of the things you suggested; except, I cool the boiled milk placing it in cold water to bring it to room temperature faster as well check if it is done every couple of hours (thereby shaking the mix which may delay the process?) I intend to follow your suggestions...

Thanks
 
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Servall

New member
Kunjuppu:

i live in toronto, and i am the thayir maker in my home. here are some notes from 20 years of thayir making..

I note with interest you live in Toronto. I also live in good ole TO and this is my 38th year in this great city!! Went to York University and lived in the west end (Mississauga) in the beginning years and moved to the east end in the 90's. I am sure we have crossed path somewhere and clicked our glasses!!

Cheers...
 

valli

New member
Dear Shri Servall

1. Valli Madam please do not take me wrong. I [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important]love[/COLOR][/COLOR] your machine except I would rather like my thayir made out of fresh milk and not cream powder. Can I not still use your machine using real fresh milk and not powder?

I don't know since I have not tried that yet! I will try with milk and let you know if it worked or not! By the way, I have heard from friends that full cream milk works better than the skimmed/fatfree/lowfat ones!

Kind regards
 
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Servall

New member
Friends:

I tell you with excitement that our household created the best Thayir last night. Thanks to everyone's suggestion; I picked out from every suggestion something that I never did before, and finally was able to accomplish it. My Mrs. followed a template I created and I supervised diligently every step of the way.

It all started with whole homogenized milk, boiled in a milk cooker until the milk cried I cannot take no more heat; cooled the milk to little above room temperature; got some culture from a friend and also kept it out to room temperature; transferred it to a chennai bought ஜாடி; added a geneous quantity of culture to the milk; kept ஜாடி inside pre-lit and warmed oven inside a styrofoam box, didnt touch it once for 4 hours, ola, exactly after four hours it turned out to be like what my mom used to make, rock solid தயிர். I am sure our household, including the kids, are set for the best தயிர்சாதம் in a long time......

Again many thanks to everyone!!
 

H.Krishnamurthy

Active member
It was just great to read people's suggestion in making Good thayir.
Lesa pulippu vasanai.
Now a days in tonned milk 1 % or 2 % they add a chemical to keep the life of milk longer than it's normal life.
Unfortunately this kills the process of urai kutharadhu.
I have seen in Hotels here at Bangalore . They serve a rock solid thayir.
I asked the cook the process
They follow normal process and they just Spread few spoons of Milk powder over the milk to get the solid Thayir
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
It was just great to read people's suggestion in making Good thayir.
Lesa pulippu vasanai.
Now a days in tonned milk 1 % or 2 % they add a chemical to keep the life of milk longer than it's normal life.
Unfortunately this kills the process of urai kutharadhu.
I have seen in Hotels here at Bangalore . They serve a rock solid thayir.
I asked the cook the process
They follow normal process and they just Spread few spoons of Milk powder over the milk to get the solid Thayir

HK,

first time i am hearing of chemcals being added to milk, to prolong shelf life. there is a popular process called UHT which keeps milk for months without refrigeration. i have tasted this milk, and it takes some time to get used to. it is used, i know in ships, where you go for weeks without landing.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-temperature_processing]Ultra-high-temperature processing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[[/URL]

actually adding milk powder will make the milk thick, without adding fat % content. good idea.

we had a guy in our street, who kept a couple of buffalos for 'show', and provided good quality milk by mixing powder, when i was young, in the 60s. even at the time of milk scarcity, powdered milk was freely available, but the normal household had a penchant for immediately milked fresh cow or buffalo milk. but this guy's milk was so good, that the women looked the other way, and bought his milk all the same. :)
 

prasad1

Well-known member
I have a system very similar to Kunjappu.
We use 2% milk in 1.5 quart corning container. Microwave on the high for 10 minutes.
Let it cool down to about 95 F. Add the culture thayir (about 2 table spoon), cover it and let it sit in microwave or your regular oven (away from any vent) for about 6 hours.
Good luck.
 
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