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The Secret

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Bsankar

Member
I have been reading the treads of this forum for a while. I must admit that I enjoy it and it is very informative. I would like to ask a question which several of my non Brahmin friends have asked for long. Why is it that Brahmins are so special? Why are they making achievements easily? Among a group of our friends, Brahmins are doing academically well. For example, my friends Durga, Suchitra and Rudra passed Chartered Accountancy quickly. We know that some guys like Venkitaraman, Sahasranaman, Prasant cleared CA and ICWAI in first attempt. So our non Brahmins friends are surprised and ask a question? What is the secret? How do you do this? Do you spent more hours for study? What is your strategy? They thinkt it is more than just study? They all attended the same college or coaching centers? Non Brahmins struggle 7-8 years or sometimes 10 years without result. Actually, they want to duplicate our success. I am thinking what should I say? Is it our rituals, tradition or vegetarian food? As elders and people having more knowledge, I thought I would ask this question to you?
 
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Bsankar

Member
hi there,

Please someone can answer my question?
Eventhough 43 people viewed my questions, no body answered
I am little bit dissapointed. I think there are lot of elders and knwowledgable people reading this forum.

Regards
Lakshmi
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear BSankar Ji,

I think that this phenomenon is tied mainly to centuries old occupational practices of Brahmins, where we were involved with intellectually oriented fields, by the study of vedas and shastras. Such practices were closed to other Jathis till recently. Add to this our culture of venerating education, you have the mixture to excel in any modern fields of study. Unfortunately, because of the Jaathi system, other NB folks did not have this mix till recently.

Maha Periaval of Kanchi has described this through an analogy. Because we were involved with such a highly spritual occupation through the application of intellectualism, in the secular world we will benefit from that for sometime. It is like a bicycle that will pedal on for some distance without a rider, before it falls down.

This is why we should not take excessive overt pride in our community's acheivements. We should always thank the almighty for making us successful in today's environment.

Regards,
KRS
 

Sabesan Narayanaswami

Active member
Without any prejudice,I can simply answer this question by one word Gene.But it is not that simple.There are very intelligent people in other communities as well.May be on the average this community excels.It is a combination of so many factors like inculcation of the value of education from Childhood,the life style,respects to elders.food habits and so on.The child grows in an environment which values academic excellence as the prime motive and sets a goal for himself.How many families today want the boy or girl to be in IIT or IIM even when th boy/Girl is yet to join Kindergarten.In the varnashrama this community was created for pursuit of intellectual activities and to pray for the entire mankind and not be selfish.Ofcourse there is degradation taking place due to unhealthy and unholy competition and commecialisation.There is a need to have restraint on this and proceed with all humility.
As I said,we would not have had a P.Chidambaram or an Abdul Kalam or A.L,Mudaliars if this domain was the property of only Brahmins.
Lets take it as one of the faculty GOD has bestowed on us and Proceed.Thanking yo
u
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri Swaminathasharma Ji,

If you mean by your statement that heredity is the only correct answer to explain the phenomenon, I respectfully disagree.

Research has clearly shown that the interplay between nature and nurture makes a person and his/her traits. Sorry.

Regards,
KRS

Yes... Gene is the only and correct answer....
 

SuryaKasyapa

Active member
It is just sheer struggle for existence and survival.A sort of excellence shown by in every 'migrant' community. Brahmins are treated as migrants everywhere.In Tamilnadu they are treated as Aryans and "Vandhavar" by vested political dogmatics.In Keral they are sometimes ridiculed as Pattars. In northern parts of India they ar treated as "Madrasis" (sorry- not done by all but made a general feeling). In presentday academic fields and departmental promotions, they have to necessary show 110% to be selected due to the obvious ground situations Hence it becomes a daily struggle to survive.When cornered only way to escape is extra hard efforts to excel.And more than that because of this migrant psyche ,they are more easily adaptable to local circumstances,keeping their own specialities private like a cocoon.


"Swantha kathai mikavum soka kathai".Shold we dig more to bring tearful emotions?
 

drsundaram

Well-known member
dear Bsankarji and other learned contributors, I just saw Bsankar's message and am immediately responding. I think it is more of genetic origin. I think right from day one our ancestors, the very first Brahmin/ were endowed with skill, talents and intelligence which we inherit and the descendents gets it and this goes on, on. Pulikku pirandhadhu puliyagathan irukkanum , illaya?. Adhu madhiri.
Am I making some sense?
I also look forward for other inputs on this.
 

vikrama

Active member
I agree with Sri KRS when he says that centuries of training in intellectually oriented fields and culture of venerating education are the causes of our progress and not the genes. I also agree with Sri Suryakasyapa that persecutions kept us on our toes and forced us to excel. I want to add something more.

The method of vedic study lays great stress on memory. Without knowing the meaning, memorizing long pieces is really a difficult job. Absolute perfection in pronunciation is insisted. Practice in this at a young age develops the powers of observation, retention and recall. This sharpness is transmitted hereditarily and as Kanchi Mahaswami said, will run for some more time.

The one notable characteristic that distinguishes us is ‘sraddha’. I do not find an equivalent word for it in English or Tamil. Sraddha involves the following five steps.

1 Be clear about your goal.
2 Learn from elders the methods to reach the goal.
3 Do all such things favourable to reach the goal.
4 Scrupulously avoid such things as would prevent you from reaching the goal.
#3 &#4 make us pay attention to every little thing.
5 Be steadfast in your pursuit in the face of difficulties.

Our rituals inculcate in us this sraddha.
1Our sankalpam declares what we are going to do and what for. (Parameswara preethyartham pratas sandhyavandhanam karishye.)
2 How to do the rituals is dictated by our elders or by our vadhyar.
3&4 There are many dos and don’ts in each ritual which we scrupulously follow.
5 We don’t give up a ritual because certain materials are not available or the weather is inclement. We perform it to the best of our ability.

There are many such rituals in our families. The sraddha generated in these rituals is transferred to our learning. We show the same sraddha in our office which endears us to our employers.
 

tbs

Well-known member
I have been reading the treads of this forum for a while. I must admit that I enjoy it and it is very informative. I would like to ask a question which several of my non Brahmin friends have asked for long. Why is it that Brahmins are so special? Why are they making achievements easily? Among a group of our friends, Brahmins are doing academically well. For example, my friends Durga, Suchitra and Rudra passed Chartered Accountancy quickly. We know that some guys like Venkitaraman, Sahasranaman, Prasant cleared CA and ICWAI in first attempt. So our non Brahmins friends are surprised and ask a question? What is the secret? How do you do this? Do you spent more hours for study? What is your strategy? They thinkt it is more than just study? They all attended the same college or coaching centers? Non Brahmins struggle 7-8 years or sometimes 10 years without result. Actually, they want to duplicate our success. I am thinking what should I say? Is it our rituals, tradition or vegetarian food? As elders and people having more knowledge, I thought I would ask this question to you?
hi all
can i put like this...its mere my personal opinion....50% Gene..
10% environment....10% parents and elders blessing...
10% sontha uzhaippu...means self struggle...10% present
poliitical/social compulsions....10% God's blessings...i may be
wrong...its my view/personal experiences.....

regards
tbs
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri vikrama Ji,

Vow! I never made the connection between our Purva Mimamsa edicts and our current situation. This is a brilliant deduction, I must say.

Thanks.

Regards,
KRS
 

happyhindu

Well-known member
Shri Sankar Ji,

Generally if you notice, its usually the brahmins of tamil nadu and kerala who do very well academically. Probably its not possible to say the same thing when it comes to brahmins of northern india. In the cow belt regions of Bihar and UP, they might seem more endowed with military kind of ability to a layman's eye (thakur type). And one might come across average NB southies who have performed better than brahmins of north india or gujarat or maharashtra.

In Andhra, the rate of brahmins who drop out of school is high, am told their greatest drawback was that they took to english education rather late (and it is unfortunate, because telugu sahitya pundits, poets, etc were almost always brahmins...when the patronage for indigenous arts was gone, their circumstances became difficult).

Unless a child is nurtured, one never knows its full capability. In that way, for many NBs its still the teething stage since they have taken to education only since the post-independence times. i suppose its too early to predict the performance abilites of other communities as yet.

Also, academic performance, focus on marks and getting degrees may not be the main focus of other people. Eg: marwadis like lakshmi mittal or the birlas who run successful companies perhaps have a diff kind of intelligence when it comes to entrepreneurial skills, strategy and finances.

Am not sure if NBs wish to ape Bs. World-over, the focus is now on developing knowledge-based economies. So intellectual capital has become a necessity to make a living for everyone, irrespective of whether they like it or not. Therefore the focus of people is knowledge-building in the present times.

God forbid, if by a strange change of circumstances, a meteor hits earth, financial markets collapse, climatic changes force population displacements and trigger civil wars for water and cultivatable land, then the survivors in such situtions might probably end up being the ones that are physically the sturdiest (like some of the african tribes). And in those circumstances, people might probably like to ape artisans for new city planning / building or military kind of people to keep territorial control and so on...what am saying is that the focus of "needs" of people may change at diff times depending on circumstances or survival means.
 
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Siddhanta

Active member
Yes Brahmins do academically well in all fields. People even prefer Brahmin doctors who graduated on merit rather than others who graduated on quotas. Even in my college, one of the Software Companies took only Brahmin students in Campus interviews. Although there are people complaining about qoutas in colleges in Tamil Nadu, in the end, it is Talent which paves the way for success.

My opinion is, it is because Brahmins follow strict Hindu way of life, learning Sanskrit, using Astrology, being vegetarian and so on. Especially when marriages are fixed by strict horoscope matching, then the child born is naturally competent without defects.

I am from the Kshatriya community, and i tried using Astrology and Vedas and studied them. Our life is predestined and it is shaped by our previous Karma. I understood the basic idea of Hinduism. This helped me to live a peaceful life free of fears and detachment from materialistic world.
 
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happyhindu

Well-known member
Siddhanta,

Just in case it might interest you and just in case you might want to look for more details -- am told that according the 'Manual of the Administration of the Madras Presidency' the earliest medical doctors of Madras Presidency were not brahmins, since they were averse to cutting up cadavers (probably of low castes). Brahmins figured on the bureucracy scene first and moved to medicine later. I have not read that book and I am unable to verify how far that is correct.

Many Justice Party leaders such as TM Nair and Rama Rao were doctors (am trying to say that there were doctors in other castes long before the quota system set in).

Till date, there are many NBs who study medicine without quotas (since their communities are not listed as BCs, etc). More than half my family is in the medicine field and i have not heard of patients who come to hospitals asking specifically for brahmin doctors.

Regards.
 
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Raghy

Well-known member
I have been reading the treads of this forum for a while. I must admit that I enjoy it and it is very informative. I would like to ask a question which several of my non Brahmin friends have asked for long. Why is it that Brahmins are so special? Why are they making achievements easily? Among a group of our friends, Brahmins are doing academically well. For example, my friends Durga, Suchitra and Rudra passed Chartered Accountancy quickly. We know that some guys like Venkitaraman, Sahasranaman, Prasant cleared CA and ICWAI in first attempt. So our non Brahmins friends are surprised and ask a question? What is the secret? How do you do this? Do you spent more hours for study? What is your strategy? They thinkt it is more than just study? They all attended the same college or coaching centers? Non Brahmins struggle 7-8 years or sometimes 10 years without result. Actually, they want to duplicate our success. I am thinking what should I say? Is it our rituals, tradition or vegetarian food? As elders and people having more knowledge, I thought I would ask this question to you?

Sri Sankar,
There is no secret. You are looking at few examples of successful youngsters. Kindly allow me to go through my list..Two Harijan boys from our village passed M.Com with gold medals; one mudaliyar boy did the same; few more mudaliyar boys passed CA inter 1st attempt, Bsc physics 1st class, Bsc Maths 1st class... do you get my drift? Recently (still) I was looking for an alliance for my son;when I seek barhmin girls, most often than not the brides father (and the bride too) demand for a teetotaler; my son is not. I know he parties once a month, but drives back home (that means what ever he drinks has to be well within moderation). to cut a long story short, I started including non-brahmin girls too in the preference... I came across harijan girls with top qualifications, one pallar girl with M Phil qualification! I did not read any post in this thread yet. I saw the 1st post and I answer to that. My point is, caste has nothing to do with the ability to study well.

Regars,
Raghy.
 

Siddhanta

Active member
Till date, there are many NBs who study medicine without quotas (since their communities are not listed as BCs, etc). More than half my family is in the medicine field and i have not heard of patients who come to hospitals asking specifically for brahmin doctors.
What i said is based on my experiences. I have seen people preferring Brahmin doctors (no one goes to a hospital and asks for brahmin doctors but prefer them) and i have seen people complaining about doctors from other castes saying they did not graduate on merit and that is why their treatments does not work. May be it is only a myth.

Personally, i have seen Brahmin doctors performing well. I came across one of the Hospitals in Chennai where a Brahmin doctor cured a disease of a patient who is related to me. Then later that doctor was sent out since that hospital is a Christian hospital and there was another doctor who was a SC/ST quota person converted into Christianity and became a doctor there. The same patient preferred that hospital but the doctor was not the same. Later the patient passed away and the exact cause is not disclosed.

May be it was just that i came across such things. This is my opinion, and your opinion naturally will differ from mine.
 
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happyhindu

Well-known member
Siddhanta,

i am able to agree with you to an extent.

i too have heard of caste being the factor for appointments or promotions in some cases with better qualified or better performing people being overlooked.

but when it comes to cases of human error (like in the patient you have mentioned who was treated by a christian convert doctor), its a bit tricky. not sure if the reason for death in such a case can be attributted to the caste of the doc treating the patient.

if such is the case and if caste has to be associated with the profession, then i can tell you of instances of brahmin doctors who have botched up surgeries. one is this: a close relative, a north indian brahmin who lives in a town in the north, goes drunk to the hospital. even illterate patients try to avoid him but cannot (since its a government hospital) - he reeks of alcohol almost always. not only he, but even some of his collegues go drunk to hospitals - and even perform surgeries. according to them, they are 'always in control' but even to illeterate patients, its obvious that they are not really in control of themselves.

obviously we are all products of circumstances...we form opinions based on what we see.... you have yours based on your expereinces, and i have mine based on what i have come across..
 
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Z

zunedune

Guest
As we all can infer by our common sense, this is a subjective topic. Nonetheless, going in line with the thoughts of the majority that TBs have more intellectual capability, I think it has more to do with the belief system and self-confidence. TBs mainly because of our ancestral intellectual exposure in fields as variegated as vedas to science/mathematics, strongly believe consciously & sub-concsciously that we are a classic intellectual material. This is analogous to Jews in the western culture who are appraised for their superior financial intellects. Drive down a couple more centuries in future, I think more community folks would squeeze into this strata by what they have seen in their successful ancestors (who are currently software engineers/bankers/doctors etc...). Any community cannot hope to thrive upon it's accomplishment in the past. It can at best derive motivation and gallop forward for sustained excellence and I hope none of us have any disagreement on this notion.

As of vegetarianism's inkling to the superiority of TBs - I would rather suspect that. A counter-argument in this case are the non-Brahmin Jews who eat non-veggies are still sound in mathematics/banking industry. Same applies to Arabs who did ground-breaking breakthru's in Mathematics comparable to Hindus of Indian origin. But this is true from statistical viewpoint, adhering to belief system that Food has a major contribution to what we are.. there should be some advantage to the sacrifice made to our taste buds (by avoiding nonvegetarian food) provided we channelize these into augmented areas for excellence.
 

kunjuppu

Well-known member
good post zune.

you have raised the quality of the posts in this thread up a few notches, by your brief, but subtely acceptable observations.

i have two queries of you - in the same subjective sense that you evoke in your post..

you quote..

Nonetheless, going in line with the thoughts of the majority that TBs have more intellectual capability.. than? than whom? than what?

when i learned the old wren and martin grammar in my school, when the word 'more' is used as an adjective, it should be followed by 'than... perhaps you could oblige us by completing the sentence?

second: i am not so sure, that being a vegetarian is a sacrifice to the palate. my palghat based cooking, i am sure, will give a good fight to any cordon bleu plate re its ability to exercise those gustatory cells :)

a bonus query: i like your observation about self confidence. i have never seen so much self confidence as in the academically oriented TB when he is in the west.

the young TB appears to have shed his baggage re cast, cast himself as an underdog against the european and chinese intellects, ever his nose on the grind, with a killing instinct to beat the sh*t out of them.

thank you
 

Siddhanta

Active member
A counter-argument in this case are the non-Brahmin Jews who eat non-veggies are still sound in mathematics/banking industry. Same applies to Arabs who did ground-breaking breakthru's in Mathematics comparable to Hindus of Indian origin.
Wrong. All the vedic mathematics are tens and thousands of years old. The knowledge of Hindus is far more advanced before the onset of Kali Yuga. The present day number system originated in India only from the vedas. The arabs who came for trade purpose spread them around the world. The superiority of the vedas was successfully suppressed by the British and it is still being suppressed by people who do not want the world to realize that Hinduism is more than just a "Religion".

But still there are a few honest people who do accept Vedas are the basis of the present day mathematics.

“The ingenious method of expressing every possible number using a set of ten symbols (each symbol having a place value and an absolute value) emerged in India. The idea seems so simple nowadays that its significance and profound importance is no longer appreciated. Its simplicity lies in the way it facilitated calculation and placed arithmetic foremost amongst useful inventions. The importance of this invention is more readily appreciated when one considers that it was beyond the two greatest men of antiquity, Archimedes and Apollonius.” – Laplace
 

Raghy

Well-known member
Sri Zunedune,

Your message makes a lot of sense. Personally I have seen that too. How ever, I am surprised to see your following words-

" A counter-argument in this case are the non-Brahmin Jews who eat non-veggies are still sound in mathematics/banking industry. Same applies to Arabs who did ground-breaking breakthru's in Mathematics comparable to Hindus of Indian origin."

I request you to kindly show me when Arabs did ground-breaking breakthru's in Mathematics, please. My humble understanding is, Mathematics from Hinustan spread to Persia. There is a wide spread theory that claims Vedic Hindus migrated to Persia and settled there and folowed vedic culture.
I am sorry, I could not stand to see our heritage and our ancesteral hard work credited to someone else. I got my informations from a scholar from Iran whose ancestors lived in Iran for 100s of years.
 
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pbkhema

Active member
It is in the genes of the person concerned.You cannot say that obly Bs have the Genes.Many Bs cannot even pass the 10th Std,There areeminent NB also.The instance quoted at the start of the thread may be just an example.
You cannot make a hard and fast rule that all Bs are intelligent,
Not only intelligence but hard work is also involved.The type of food you take hardly matters
 

drsundaram

Well-known member
It is in the genes of the person concerned.You cannot say that obly Bs have the Genes.Many Bs cannot even pass the 10th Std,There areeminent NB also.The instance quoted at the start of the thread may be just an example.
You cannot make a hard and fast rule that all Bs are intelligent,
Not only intelligence but hard work is also involved.The type of food you take hardly matters
whiel I agree with you on your first para I beg to disagree with your next one. Defineitely the type of food matters; satva, tamasic and rajasic qualities of a person so also his/her emotional and behavioural patterns etc are all to what type of food he/she eats. This is a simple fact.
 

renuka

Well-known member
dear dr sundram,
i wonder if the type of food actually affects our intelectual capacity.
in the country where i stay there is a race which consumes every possible non veg items right from snakes to pork, beef etc.
they are a very bright and hardworking community but rather shrewd and clever at earning money.
their children excel in studies because mainly of the hard work and also because of the drive to prosper in life.
human values at times can be almost absent in their intense desire to prosper.
i would term them very Rajasic in behaviour.
almost anyone can be intelligent, we are always looking at a persons preformance in terms of marks obtained to judge ones intelligence, somepeople are even intelligent enough to hack into bank accounts and commit cyber crimes, some smart enough to invent computer viruses etc.they are intelligent enough but of no use and benefit to anyone except to themselves.
type of food i feel does not affect intelligence as anyone can be intelligent but its only those who consume Sattvic food who will be purely intelligent enough to earn and live righteously and utilise to the maximum his/her intellectual capacity for the benefit of society and mankind as a whole.
always remember the famous saying
The end product of Education is Character.
 

drsundaram

Well-known member
dear dr sundram,
i wonder if the type of food actually affects our intelectual capacity.
in the country where i stay there is a race which consumes every possible non veg items right from snakes to pork, beef etc.
they are a very bright and hardworking community but rather shrewd and clever at earning money.
their children excel in studies because mainly of the hard work and also because of the drive to prosper in life.
human values at times can be almost absent in their intense desire to prosper.
i would term them very Rajasic in behaviour.
almost anyone can be intelligent, we are always looking at a persons preformance in terms of marks obtained to judge ones intelligence, somepeople are even intelligent enough to hack into bank accounts and commit cyber crimes, some smart enough to invent computer viruses etc.they are intelligent enough but of no use and benefit to anyone except to themselves.
type of food i feel does not affect intelligence as anyone can be intelligent but its only those who consume Sattvic food who will be purely intelligent enough to earn and live righteously and utilise to the maximum his/her intellectual capacity for the benefit of society and mankind as a whole.
always remember the famous saying
The end product of Education is Character.
I had never meant, in general, about people eating all typs of living beings. Our digestive system and teeth etc are adept to chewing and digesting vegetarian food. Eating anything other vegetable origin do not help conferring the basic qualities required of good human being , Viz: of tolerance, endurance, wisdom, kindess, empathy and love such similar satvic qualitites. These are what stipulated in Sastras and preached by Gurus,yogis and Acharyals also. Coming to the intellignce part I think I can classify into which are desirable and others not desirable and despised. For persons to commit crimes successfully,yes, he is expected to be intelligent and wise. First of all his head should allow him to do such an act and then he has to carry it out and complete . But these actions are all prompted by those rajasic or tamasic qualities, in general and can not be accomplished by satvic natured individuals. If you take an account of offenders and those commiting crimes you can see many in them will be invariably non vegetarians. Blood shed and violence are all normally perpetrated not by satvic guna. A simple test can be, cut few bits of Bendi[ vendaikai] and keep in a closed jar.You can also cut pieces of meat and keep similarly in another. After few days, bindi pieces whould have just become shrinked or blackened ; meat pieces would have been changed to worms.
Therefore intelligence is a part any activity; the point here, I think is , what kind of activity. An activity where one is to be socially respected, accepted. ethical and value adding or all of otherwise. My contention is to what one eats that will be his/her attitude, in general. Just like breathing is linked to thought process so also the type of food eaten will tell upon the nature,aptitude and attitude of a person.
Please continue....
 
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renuka

Well-known member
dear Dr Sundram,
i totally agree with you. but as i said earlier the world measures intelligence by looking at a persons intellectual capacity which might even be very very Rajasic in nature.
Sattva people are the most intelligent of the lot as they do not cause harm but instead contribute to society.
a good example is former Indian President Shri A.J Abdul Kalam , a vegetarian, endowed with Sattva Guna.
i am a vegetarian myself but i am still going to say this : Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian.(he might have taken sattvic food but his innate Guna was never ever Sattvic) .
so i guess may be food isnt necessarily everything to maketh a man.
food is surely one of it but our inherent Guna which decideds our true nature is shaped by upbringing, environment, education and previous birth impressions.
i sometimes wonder why it is always emphasised that we need to get rid of our "animal qualities". but in reality animals never leave their dharma, they do not hate, cheat, lie steal or murder.
the carnivour lion/tiger chases his deer with all his might but the deer has an equal oppurtunity to escape which at times does rarely happen.
but its man who ties up a defenceless animal and cuts his throat, no chance for the animal to defend himself.

i once had a dog who used to have such pure behaviour that even till today i tell everyone this.
his favourite food was Halva which my mother used to make during Poojas.
he would not allow us to enter the prayer room unless he is given the Arpana Halwa first. only then we could place it on the altar. we used to take a little from the plate and let him eat it first.
the place we used to stay also had monkeys from the nearby jungle and a few stray cats.
he used to divide his food with his paw in equal proportions for the monkeys and cats and only then eat at times he will take a smaller portion.
he used to love bhajans and wait for the vibuthi i would place on his head.
he was too good to be true
 
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