The real theists and real atheists

[sravna]

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The word theist and atheist are being thrown around with such frequency in the discussions that it would seem that their connotations are known to everyone. I will give my perspective of what is wrong with such as assumption.

To me theist or atheist is not related to belief in god alone. That would be too shallow a definition. Because mere belief in god does not make one to do only good and vice versa as is really implied by such a belief. So we see seeming contradictions like malevolent theists and benevolent atheists.

Belief in god, in practice can be easily divorced from doing good deeds and similarly disbelief in god can also be divorced from doing bad deeds. So of both exist together i.e., belief in god and performance of bad deeds and similarly the other way, who really believes in god? I would say the latter

Because, to me god is not physical but only pure consciousness. The experience of such consciousness is the reality and one who has similar experience is closer to god. What causes such an experience. Without doubt selfless, kind and charitable acts.

So as long as disbelief in god does not promote ego in a person he is perfectly ok according to me. That is the only apprehension I have towards a person who is labelled an atheist. In the same way even if belief in god does not check one's ego, he doesn't do justice to the label theist.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Sravana, greetings. A great opening post. I bow my head in respect.

Belief in god, in [COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]practice[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] can be easily divorced from doing good deeds and similarly disbelief in god can also be divorced from doing bad deeds. So of both exist together i.e., belief in god and [COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]performance[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] of bad deeds and similarly the other way, who really believes in god? I would say the latter

Because, to me god is not physical but only pure consciousness. The experience of such consciousness is the reality and one who has similar experience is closer to god. What causes such an experience. Without [COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]doubt[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] selfless, kind and charitable acts.

So, one does not have to believe in God to do good deeds. But what is a good deed? 'மனதாலும் செயலாலும் மற்றுயிர்க்கு தீங்கு செயாதிருத்தல்' is a good deed. Anybody would agree to that. Kindly note- 'belief in God is not a condition here at all! 'God' is the reference point for most people. 'Getting closer to the God' or 'going away from the God' is the act allegedly pefformed by everyone. But if someone can think in such terms, so that,'God' is not the reference point, then what happens? Suddenly, there is no reference point! One does not know which direction is right and which directiion is wrong! If 'God' is taken as reference, one may say, getting 'closer to God' is right and 'going away from God' is wrong...... so, what happens if there is no reference?

At that situation, I look at the environment and the sorroundings. If my actions wipe out some injustice, if my actions stands up for someone vulnerable, then I normally assume I am going in the right direction. Would it happen everyday? I think it does in the course of our everyday life.

Any person driven by his/her own ego can seldom wipeout injustices.

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Raghy,

I think your choice of reference point is a good one for anyone who wants to be called good.

 

[sangom]

Sri.Sravana, greetings. A great opening post. I bow my head in respect.

So, one does not have to believe in God to do good deeds. But what is a good deed? 'மனதாலும் செயலாலும் மற்றுயிர்க்கு தீங்கு செயாதிருத்தல்' is a good deed. Anybody would agree to that. Kindly note- 'belief in God is not a condition here at all! 'God' is the reference point for most people. 'Getting closer to the God' or 'going away from the God' is the act allegedly pefformed by everyone. But if someone can think in such terms, so that,'God' is not the reference point, then what happens? Suddenly, there is no reference point! One does not know which direction is right and which directiion is wrong! If 'God' is taken as reference, one may say, getting 'closer to God' is right and 'going away from God' is wrong...... so, what happens if there is no reference?

At that situation, I look at the environment and the sorroundings. If my actions wipe out some injustice, if my actions stands up for someone vulnerable, then I normally assume I am going in the right direction. Would it happen everyday? I think it does in the course of our everyday life.

Any person driven by his/her own ego can seldom wipeout injustices.

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

My observations, from my experience, are—

• The reference point of God is not necessary.
• Actions done to wipe out "injustice" need not always be good or morally good actions; for example driving away a snake which is about to catch a frog and thus saving the frog's life (but denying the snake of its naturally given food - the famous Ramakrishna Pramahamsa story).
• All ego is not bad; ego is what sustains this world. But when ego clouds one's view, it becomes bad and detrimental to oneself.
• ego can become detrimental due to religious and/or spiritual ego also; the feeling that "I am a very spiritually evolved person, I am very religious, etc." Just because these egotistic phases are associated with god/religion/spirituality etc., does not mean it will not be bad.
• egotism can come even by an overzealous keenness to wipe out injustices. Hitler wanted to wipe out injustices of some kinds.
• What is required is humility; a deep awareness that you are just one speck of a human in this vast ocean of humanity and despite all the grandiose achievements imagined to be yours by you, you are a mere nothing before that supreme power which makes this whole universe work.