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The god fallacy

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tbs

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Omar Khayam:
Look not above, there is no answer there;
Pray not, for no one listens to your prayer;
Near is as near to God as any Far
And Here is just the same deceit as There.
hi nara sir,
you are using many new words....like FALLACY/DILUTIONAL/FATALISM ETC.....i know u are naturalised american...not born again
american......still i feel like normal indian...like unpad indian....may not understand ur intention of using some unknown words...
any way u r a professor....not everybody equal to u....
 

tbs

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I like this one. What does it mean? :)
hi biswa sir,
there are some american christians are called themselves as BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS....like wise nara sir used to be POORVA
ASHRAMA SV.... now he may be born again american SV....just kidding..lol
 
OP
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Nara

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From Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes

Thomas Hobbes
At first, it is peculiar to the nature of man, to be inquisitive into the causes of the events they see, some more, some less; but all men so much, as to be curious in the search of the causes of their own good and evil fortune.

Secondly, upon the sight of any thing that hath a beginning to think also it had a cause, which determined the same to begin, then when it did, rather than sooner or later.

Thirdly, [....] man observeth how one event hath been produced by another; and remembereth in them antecedence and consequence; and when he cannot assure himself of the true causes of things (for the causes of good and evil fortune for the most part are invisible), he supposes causes of them, either such as his own fancy suggesteth; or trusteth the authority of other men, such as he thinks to be his friends, and wiser than himself.
 
hi biswa sir,
there are some american christians are called themselves as BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS....like wise nara sir used to be POORVA
ASHRAMA SV.... now he may be born again american SV....just kidding..lol

Good to know tbs ji!

I think those who consider themselves Brahmins are automatically born again (dvija)

I guess those who do not want to take that route have to be born again Americans, or Christians, or god forbid born again as Indians! :)
 
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Nara

Nara

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Another one from Omar Khayam:

And do you think that unto such as you,
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew,
God gave the Secret, and denied it to me? -
Well, well, what matters it! believe that too.
 

renuka

Well-known member
God denied none and neither He privileged a few,
We the insects of existence created the wounds of desire,
There is actually no secret,only Truth called in various hues,
Alas! We know not and move from pyre to pyre.
 
God denied none and neither He privileged a few,
We the insects of existence created the wounds of desire,
There is actually no secret,only Truth called in various hues,
Alas! We know not and move from pyre to pyre.

Awesome, who is that by? also Omar Khayyam?
 
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Nara

Nara

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Up, up, where Parwin's hoofs stamp heaven's floor,
My soul went knocking at each starry door,
Till on the stilly top of heaven's stair,
Clear-eyed I looked -- and laughed -- and climbed no more.

-- Omar Khayyam
 

renuka

Well-known member
Up, Up where I wrote in Praveen's forum,
My soul still searched for the star of guidance,
Sometimes pleasant ,sometimes no decorum,
In vain I looked outwards..the wrong direction.
 
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One more from dear Omar ---

Men talk of heaven, -- there is no heaven but here;
Men talk of hell, -- there is no hell but here;
Men of hereafters talk, and future lives, --
O love, there is no other life -- but here.
 

renuka

Well-known member
Men are in seventh heaven...I wonder how they got there,
Men make life hell...I think they found the stairs,
Men dont fear their actions but there their future lies,
O Men,Love and Serve all..the secret of not coming once more.
 
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Raji Ram

Active member
Dear Prof. Sir!

Are you tired of 'God Exists' thread? Hence a new thread with the support of Omar? :)

Regards............
 

prasad1

Active member
Awesome, who is that by? also Omar Khayyam?


Omar can not match Renuka.

Let us not forget that Thomas jefferson:
"As part of the Virginia planter elite and, as a tobacco planter, Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves throughout his lifetime. Like many of his contemporaries, he viewed Africans as being racially inferior. Many modern Jeffersonian historians further believe, based on circumstantial and limited DNA evidence, that Thomas Jefferson was likely the father of all of his slave Sally Hemings' six children."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson
 
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...Are you tired of 'God Exists' thread? Hence a new thread with the support of Omar?
Dear Mrs. RR, yes, I am tired of "God Exists" thread, but that is not the reason for this thread.

Omar Khyyam to me is one of the most fascinating figures of human history. Coming from a very religious and prudish country he wrote about wine and women with so much sensuality it is unbelievable. He also mocked religion and the clergy without any mercy, if he were to live today he would be put to death for blasphemy. He openly advocated seeking pleasure for the sake of pleasure. Here is a beauty:

Old Khayyam say you, is a debauchee;
If only you were half so good as he!
He sins no sin but gentle drunkenness,
Great-hearted mirth, and kind adultery.


And another:
If with wine you are drunk be happy,
If seated with a moon-faced (beautiful), be happy,
Since the end purpose of the universe is nothingness;
Hence picture your nothingness, then while you are, be happy!


However, it is not only Khyyam I would like to write about. As Y would say, wait and watch :)!

Cheers!
 
No God is a fallacy


Guru the washer man, disciple is the cloth

The name of God liken to the soap
Wash the mind on foundation firm
To realize the glow of Truth

kabir
 
Guru is the Potter, disciple is the (unbaked) pot
Gives Shape and cures the flaws with care
Protecting (always) with palm from inside
While pounding the pot from outside
 
I am not starved for want of food, but it is Janardana who deserves my reverence.
I have looked on God as one who sees everything, on bright and dark days, alike.
God is like a father with his child,
who both feels and gives pleasure at the same time.
Good acts and bad acts vanish.
Tuka says, "God's glory alone is left."

Sant Tukaram
 
Just beyond us we see that purple luster - how glorious!
With His noble crown of peacock feathers stitched together.
As you look upon Him, fever and illusion vanish
Adore then the Prince of the Yadavas, the Lord of Yogis.
He who filled with passion the sixteen thousand royal damsels,
Fair Creatures, divine maidens.
He stands upon the river bank with the luster of one million moons.
It is fastened in jewels on His neck
And merges into the luster of His form.

This God who bears the wheel is the chief of the Yadavas.
Him the thirty three crores of demigods adore.
The demons tremble before Him.
His dark blue countenance destroys sin.
How fair are His feet with saffron stained!
How fortunate is the brick that is grasped by His feet!
The very thought of Him makes fire cool.
Therefore embrace Him with experience of your own.
The sages, as they see His face, contemplate Him in the spirit,
The Father of the World stands before them in bodily shape.
Tuka is frenzied after Him; His purple form ravages the mind

Sant Tukaram
 
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Something from Spinoza

Spinoza was one of the most influential European philosophers laying in the foundation for an epoch that followed him and came to be known as the Enlightenment.

He was not exactly an atheist, but he didn't believe in the notion that soul was immortal. For this sin he was excommunicated by the rabbis. He faced severe persecution for expressing views that went against the majority opinion so much so he went to the extent of publishing his writings under false names, or having the author page blank.

An interesting side note, Spinoza's system is supposed to be similar to that of Sankara's Advaitam sans the theism -- see the Wiki article for more.

Spinoza was a fierce critic of religion and superstition. Here is one small passage:

The origin of superstition above given affords us a clear reason for the fact, that it comes to all men naturally, though some refer its rise to a dim notion of God, universal to mankind, and also tends to show, that it is no less inconsistent and variable than other mental hallucinations and emotional impulses, and further that it can only be maintained by hope, hatred, anger, and deceit; since it springs, not from reason, but solely from the more powerful phases of emotion. Furthermore, we may readily understand how difficult it is, to maintain in the same course men prone to every form of credulity. For, as the mass of mankind remains always at about the same pitch of misery, it never assents long any one remedy, but is always best pleased by a novelty, which has not yet proved illusive.

[…]

But if, in despotic statecraft, the supreme and essential mystery be to hoodwink the subjects, and to mask the fear, which keeps them down, with the specious garb of religion, so that men may fight as bravely for slavery as for safety, and count it not shame but highest honour to risk their blood and their lives the vainglory of a tyrant;
 

KRS

Active member
Just to let those know, who are not familiar,

Spinoza also believed that a human being had no 'free will'. Everything in one's life is already pre-determined (not exactly Karma theory though). He also believed that intellect can not override emotion.

He is my most favorite of all Western Philosophers - his thoughts were really original and he led a very simple life, and on his death he was considered a Saint by all who knew him.

Regards,
KRS
 
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Hume on superstition

David Hume is another towering freethinker of the era of Enlightenment. He rejected superstition, religion, theistic gods, but did not take a position on an impersonal god. Still he was accused of "atheism" and was denied a coveted Chair at University of Edinburgh because of it.

Here is a taste of Hume's forceful criticism of religious superstitions:

… It is certain, that, in every religion, however sublime the verbal definition which it gives of its divinity, many of the votaries, perhaps the greatest number, will still seek the divine favor, not by virtue and good morals, which alone can be acceptable to a perfect being, but either by frivolous observances, by intemperate zeal, by rapturous extasies, or by the belief of mysterious and absurd opinions. The least part of the Sadder (Jewish text), as well as of the Pentateuch (Bible – OT), consists in precepts of morality; and we may also be assured, that that part was always the least observed and regarded.

[...]

This observation, then, holds universally. But still one may be at some loss to account for it. It is not sufficient to observe, that the people, everywhere, degrade their deities into a similitude with themselves, and consider them merely as a species of human creatures, somewhat more potent and intelligent. This will not remove the difficulty. For there is no man so stupid, as that, judging by his natural reason, he would not esteem virtue and honesty the most valuable qualities, which any person could possess. Why not ascribe the same sentiment to his deity? Why not make all religion, or the chief part of it, to consist in these attainments?

Nor is it satisfactory to say, that the practice of morality is more difficult than that of superstition; and is therefore rejected. For, not to mention the excessive penances of the Brachmans (Brahmins) and Talapoinss (Buddists); it is certain, that the Rhamadan of the Turks, during which the poor wretches, for many days, often in the hottest months of the year, and in some of the hottest climates of the world, remain without eating or drinking from the rising to the setting sun; this Rhamadan, I say, must be more severe than the practice of any moral duty, even to the most vicious and depraved of mankind. The four Lents of the Muscovites, and the austerities of some Roman Catholics, appear more disagreeable than meekness and benevolence. In short, all virtue, when men are reconciled to it by ever so little practice, is agreeable: All superstition is forever odious and burthensome.

 
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