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Temple

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lotus_quartz

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1. Which is he oldest functioning Hindu temple in India/World ? Non functioning temple ?
2. Since when did people started giving preference to worship in temples over
conducting Yagnas ?
3. Why the people described in Vedas/Upnishads/Ramayana/Mahabharatha
etc. did not worship the way we do now and did not build/visit temples ?
4. How old is Tirupati temple ?
5. How the importance/hierarchy of temples is decided ? Based on rank of
presiding deity or based on public perception ?
 
sirs - i do not think anybody can pinpoint the oldest temple in the world, though it may be possible to identify the oldest EXISTING temple in the world.

during vedic/ ramayana/ mahabaratha times, god was present before people in the form of rama, krishna etc., so no need for people to go to temples exclusively to see god, as he was available right in front of your eyes.
but nowadays, going to temple is only option for you to keep in touch with our tradition.
 
Kailasanaathar temple

1. Which is he oldest functioning Hindu temple in India/World ? Non functioning temple ?
2. Since when did people started giving preference to worship in temples over
conducting Yagnas ?
3. Why the people described in Vedas/Upnishads/Ramayana/Mahabharatha
etc. did not worship the way we do now and did not build/visit temples ?
4. How old is Tirupati temple ?
5. How the importance/hierarchy of temples is decided ? Based on rank of
presiding deity or based on public perception ?

On a visit to Kaanchi, I was told the Kailasanathar temple maintained excellently by the ASI is the oldest temple ( I dont know if it is in Kaanchi, Tamilnadu, India, World, Earth, Solar syteam, Galaxy, Universe). I think this might be partly be based on the fact that it was untouched by invasions and might refer to the continous standing structure.

I think in Ramayana there is mention of Indrajit performing yagnas in Prathyangira temple. There might be a mention of temple worship elsewhere also-but I am not sure.
 
On my recent trip to Dindigul enroute from Kodaikanal to Kodai Road station, I visited Mariamman koil in Dindigul.

The priest there and one or two elderly people could not tell whether the presiding deity is an incarnation of Parvathi/Laxmi/Saraswathy or not. I asked since Mariamman is not among deities worshipped in North India.

Can anyone throw more light on this issue ?
 
Temples in TN

We can find many Amman temples in TN and they may not have a link to Vedic characters. Pechi amman,Muppidati,MuthuMari etc etc. In some(not sure of the percentage) amman temples , Non brahmin Hindus are priests and they are not formed according to Ahama rules. They will sacrifice animals during festivals and involve in activities which may harm them physically.

In big temples they have a link, they work according to Ahama rules .The deities will be described with many names but will map to Shiva and Parvathi.

Correct me if the above statements are wrong.

On my recent trip to Dindigul enroute from Kodaikanal to Kodai Road station, I visited Mariamman koil in Dindigul.

The priest there and one or two elderly people could not tell whether the presiding deity is an incarnation of Parvathi/Laxmi/Saraswathy or not. I asked since Mariamman is not among deities worshipped in North India.

Can anyone throw more light on this issue ?
 
Wonder why many people dont visit the Paathala Vinayagar sannidhi at Kalahasti (on the way back from Tirupati..) ( I too visited it only this time.. since I was never aware of such a sannidhi). The entrance reminded me of the Vaishno devi temple.. you had to bend down and crawl.. the steps were narrow .. and climbing down was not such a difficult task.. but getting back those 20 odd steps was difficult :) ( wouldnt advise it for anyone who are "healthy".....

Unfortunately I couldnt get any information on why this vinayagar came to be called so .... anybody on the forum who is aware of this ?

Bhooma
 
The religious history of Hinduism is divided into three major periods based on time period. This is accepted by most of the Indologists though it may not agree with the views of the different religious sects.

1. Pre-Vedic period.

2. Vedic period.

3. Epic-Puranic period.

1. Pre-Vedic period- We do not have much reliable information about Pre-Vedic period. With more and more sites of the Saraswathi Civilization (old name: Indus valley civilzation) being discovered we may come to know more about this period in another decade.

2. Vedic period - Yagnas performed in the open for propitiating Vedic deities like indra, Agni, soma, Vishvedevas, Ashwin and Rudra (who later became Shiva). No temples.

3. Epic-Puranic period - The two epics Mahabharata and Ramayana written. The time of the Puranas and Tantras ( a name of for Aghama and other Sasthras which came from the Karma-Kanda of the Vedas.) The age of the temples and Puranic Gods like Rama, Krishna and others.

Temples are sources of power.

Now temples are of two kinds.

1. Often in the past people used to discover places which had some power. These places came to be associated with Deities and later on temples constructed. Most of these temples are Shakthi temples.
Examples: Vaishno Devi, Kamakhya, Jwalamukhi and many of the Bhagavathi temples in Kerala. Normally there is no Murti or Protima in these temples. Whenever someone mentions Swayambhu Murti, it is this kind of temple.

2. Temples constructed according to the Agama Sasthras.

Here the temple is in the form of an Yantra. The Protima is places at the center of the Yantra which is called Garbha Graha.

Then the protima is energised by means of a ritual called Prana Prathista.

The power of these Aghama temples depend on the devotees. If more devotees come and pray, the power increases. It is a two way process. The devotee gets his/her wishes fulfilled because of the power of the Deity. And the deity gets more power because of the prayers of the devotees.

When the Temple loses power, it is renewed by conducting a ceremony called Punarutharanam when the whole process of installation and Prana Prathishta are done again. A [SIZE=-1]Kumbhabishekam is also done. But a [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Kumbhabishekam can also be done without[/SIZE] Punarutharanam.

Note: I have posted this only to make people aware of the evolution and importance of temples. The first paragraphs about periods and deities is only an introduction. As I have said these are matters of conflicting opinion.

I may be wrong. Please do not post about these as this discussion is only about temples.

Thank you.
 
1. Which is he oldest functioning Hindu temple in India/World ? Non functioning temple ?
It is difficult to say. But Madurai was 2000 years old when Caesar conquered Rome. The Meenakshi temple existed then. That makes it more than 4000 years old. But the temple has been rebuilt many times.

2. Since when did people started giving preference to worship in temples over conducting Yagnas ?
If you are referring to Brahmins conducting Yagnas always had top priority. At least daily oblations to Agni or Agnihotra was performed. You can do it even now. Not very difficult.

http://www.agnihotraindia.com/perform.asp

Do not read the web site and start. You need a Guru to teach you the intricacies of your sampradhaya.

3. Why the people described in Vedas/Upnishads/Ramayana/Mahabharatha etc. did not worship the way we do now and did not build/visit temples?
We do not know. May be someone else more knowledgeable can answer.

4. How old is Tirupati temple ?
It existed during the period of Krishna Deva Raya the famous ruler of Vijayanagar between 1509-1529. earlier history of the temple is a bit of a mystery. I may be wrong.

5. How the importance/hierarchy of temples is decided ? Based on rank of presiding deity or based on public perception ?
There is no such hierarchy. Before starting on any Puja you are supposed to pray to
1. Grama Devata
2.Sthana Devata
3. Kula devata and
4. Ishta Devata.

Depends on Sampradhaya.
 
As far as i know,there is not an iota of evidence to show that the meenakshi temple is 4000 yrs(or for that matter 2000 yrs) old.

I would say that the oldest temples are the tirupathi temple and the six murugan temples.
 
Talking of temples,
Too much care is taken to decorate the outer wall of the gopuram by skilled artisans/ sculpture rs ! Is there any tradition behind this or
just provided them with a source of employment ??
 
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I read in one of those Archeology papers that temple building in Tamil Nadu was part of the drought relief programme of the kings.

Temples were also store houses for grains and some intended (like Brahadeeswarar temple) as a small fort where the King could hide. There were small secret tunnels for his escape. I remember seeing one of the tunnels. Do not remember where.
 
Sir:

I am still trying to find out the oldest Temple in the world and in our country.

Dwaraka is considered to be one of the oldest, built around 3200 BC. This
temple is now submerged in the sea and the present one is built afresh, they
say.

Rameswaram Temple was built when Lord Rama lived, and it was originally a
thatched shed. It is as old as Ramayana.

There is one temple just opposite to Lord Jambukeshwar temple at
Tiruvanaikkovil, Trichy. It is believed that Lord Rama did pooja to the
Presiding deity Lord Kariamaleeswarar to expiate for killing Ravana -
brahmahathi dosham !

In Mahabaratha, we have Sivasahasranamam, Vishnu sahasranamam,
Kaali stothra etc., Arjuna got a divine weapon from Lord Siva in a
Temple in South India. Further study is required in this regard.

I think Srirangam Temple is the largest temple with an area of 951 m x
816 m. The outer enclosures house the entire town.

It is mentioned that seven temples are described as Mokshadhams. They
are - Ayodhya, Mathura, Haridwar, Benares, Kanchi, Ujjain and Dwaraka.
 
Temples

I do not know whether it will be possible to find the oldest Temple, but we know the largest Temple in the World. That is the Temple of Vishnu in Ankor vat in Cambodia. This was built by King Suryavarman II during the first half of 12 century. This is still considered as the largest Religious Structure in the World.

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
Earliest known Hindu Vaishnavite temple ?
Vaishnavite Tigawa temple at Jabalpur !
see www.geocities.com/ajayvasani/historyofancientindia-guptas.htm

..."Examples of Gupta architecture are found in the Vaishnavite Tigawa temple at Jabalpur (415 AD) and another temple at Deogarhnear Jhansi (510 AD). Bhita in Uttar Pradesh has a number of ancient Gupta temples. Some of the caves at Ajanta may be assigned to the period of the Guptas.".........
 
There is lot of commonality in the worship habits of Vedic period Indians, Mayans, Incas, Persians, Zoorastrians, Jews, and many other pre-Christian civilizations. Da Vinci Code also brings out the religious habits of Pagans (people of ancient Europe before dawn of Christian era).

They all worshipped forces of nature in various forms (Fire, Wind, Sun, Water....).

Earliest human evolved in Africa and later migrated to various other parts of the world. Any possibilities that this are what the Earliest humans also beleived in ?
 
Apropos post of "Lotus_quartz", I wish to add a few lines about an interesting article by Ricardo Palleres "Who Discovered America" I found in "Archaeology on Line" a website maintained by Tarini J. Carr an independent student researcher in Archaeology in the field of Ancient Indian Civilization. Mr. Palleres gives a fresh line of thought to arrive at the conclusion that " What if Hindus and Hopis, Advaitins and Aztecs, Tibetan Monks and Mayans were part of one world culture - a spiritual one?" This Article is available in the following URL:
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/who-discovered-america.html

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
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Here is another piece on Temples:

Temple built 4,000 years ago unearthed in Peru
By Marco Aquino 2 hours, 2 minutes ago



LIMA (Reuters) - A 4,000-year-old temple filled with murals has been unearthed on the northern coast of Peru, making it one of the oldest finds in the Americas, a leading archaeologist said on Saturday.

The temple, inside a larger ruin, includes a staircase that leads up to an altar used for fire worship at a site scientists have called Ventarron, said Peruvian archaeologist Walter Alva, who led the dig.

It sits in the Lambayeque valley, near the ancient Sipan complex that Alva unearthed in the 1980s. Ventarron was built long before Sipan, about 2,000 years before Christ, he said.

"It's a temple that is about 4,000 years old," Alva, director of the Museum Tumbas Reales (Royal Tombs) of Sipan, told Reuters by telephone after announcing the results of carbon dating at a ceremony north of Lima sponsored by Peru's government.

"What's surprising are the construction methods, the architectural design and most of all the existence of murals that could be the oldest in the Americas," he said.

Lambayeque is 472 miles from Lima, Peru's capital.

Discoveries at Sipan, an administrative and religious center of the Moche culture, have included a gold-filled tomb built 1,700 years ago for a pre-Incan king.

Peru is rich in archaeological treasures, including the Inca citadel of Machu Picchu in the Andes.

Until the arrival of the Spanish in the 1500s, the Incas ruled an empire for several centuries that stretched from Colombia and Ecuador in the north to what are now Peru and Chile in the south.

"The discovery of this temple reveals evidence suggesting the region of Lambayeque was one of great cultural exchange between the Pacific coast and the rest of Peru," said Alva.
(Writing by Terry Wade; Editing by Peter Cooney)
Apropos post of "Lotus_quartz", I wish to add a few lines about an interesting article by Ricardo Palleres "Who Discovered America" I found in "Archaeology on Line" a website maintained by Tarini J. Carr an independent student researcher in Archaeology in the field of Ancient Indian Civilization. Mr. Palleres gives a fresh line of thought to arrive at the conclusion that " What if Hindus and Hopis, Advaitins and Aztecs, Tibetan Monks and Mayans were part of one world culture - a spiritual one?" This Article is available in the following URL:
http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/who-discovered-america.html

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
Reference post by "lotus_quartz"'

Early this year in another Forum (Blog) we had an interesting discussion on the change in dietary habits due to introduction of new vegetables and tubers by Portugese in India. We found that there are some vegetables like sweet potato, indigenous to South India had found a way to South America via New zealand. The Maories in New Zealand call Sweet Potato by name "Kumara" a Sanskrit word. I have come across a number of articles written by eminent Historians and Archaeologists about the Indian connection to Maya and other South American Civilizations. Most of them from our country, of course. Yes there is some commonality between Indian and South American Structures and beliefs. But, personally I am not yet convinced fully about their conclusions. Most of the thories look like "wishful thinking" as though finding a sum in mathematics to fix the answer on hand ! This is a subject which is being persued by research scholars from various parts of the World. Perhaps we may find a conclusive answer some day in future.

Rehards,
Brahmanyan.
 
This brings us to the interesting question - How ancient is Hinduism ?

If it predates the Mayans, why no buildings/temples of that era has survived in India ? Oldest surviving structures in India are typically the budhdhist viharas built around 200-300 BC, stone edicts etc. No royal palaces/public structure/temples of 1000 BC or earlier has been found.

THe Mohanjodero/Harappa people could not exactly be considered ancient Hindus, or could they be ?
 
Temples

While discussing about Temples we have to take one important subject for consideration, that is "Agama". "Agamas" are theological treatises of external worship of God in the form of Idols and Temples. Unlike Vedas which are "Sruthis", "Agamas" are classified under "Smrithis". "Agamas" do not derive their authority from Vedas, but considered as authoratative as the Vedas in Temple worship. "Agamas" give detailed instructions on Temple rituals, from construction to consecration of the Temples. Interestingly the native Hindus in the Indonesian Islands of Bali and Sumatra call themselves as "Agama Hindus".Jainism has also a number of "Agamas". It is the view of some scholars "Agamas" belong to Dravidian Culture, which was later synthesized with Vedic Culture.
This again is an elaborate subject, which needs erudition and guidance of Scholars on the subject for discussion.

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
Temples

Returning to the main subject, I wish to post a few lines about one of the large Temples I have visited in Tamil Nadu, the famous "Nellaiyappar-Kanthimathi Amman" Temple on the banks of Tamrabarani River in Tirunelveli .As per the information board in the temple,the area of this huge temple complex is 19 velis , much bigger than that of Madurai or any other temples in Tamil Nadu, except Srirangam. The Temple complex consists of two huge Temples one for Lord Siva known as Nellaiyappar. Other names are Venuvaneswarar after the stala Vruksha "Bamboo", and Nelvelinathar, Salivamar. Other huge Temple is for his consort Kanthimathi Amman, known as Vadivudainayaki and Tiru Kamakotta Nachiyar, considered very powerful Diety. This Temple is a repository Art and beauty. The sculptures in this Temple are masterpieces of Pandyan and Nayak Art. There is a Thousand Piller Mandapam, Oonjal Mandapam and two chitra sabhas for Nataraja. One is the famous Tamra Sabha one among the five important sabhas for Nataraja in South. The passage connecting two temples contain life size sculptures. There are 32 thirthams in the temple, the famous among them is Potramarai thirtham.

I wish those who have not visited this Temple should include this Temple in their pilgrimage itinerary next time.

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
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Temples

This time when we took Pilgrimage visiting some important Temples around Trissur in Kerala, I was particular to include Koodalmanickyam in our itinerary.This is the only known Temple for "Sri Bharatha" in South about which I have heard a lot. We drove from Trissur to Koodalmanckyam which is just 21 Kms. The road was good and we reached Irinjalakuda, the town which is known for its clenliness in Kerala in 45 minutes. Koodalmanickyam Temple is in the western part of the town. The Temple welcomes you with its impressive eastern Gopuram built in Kerala Style of architecture. But only when you enter the gateway you understand how big the Temple is. It is a Magnificient Temple built in a Ten acres area with compound walls all around. It has a spacious outer quadrangle for Elephants and for conducting various Temple arts like "Kathakali" and "Koothu" during festival times. The sanctum-sanctorum (gharbagrugha) of the main Temple is a huge round shaped structure built in granite, over which raises equally huge conical Gopuram fully covered with copper plates. The six foot Kalasa covered in Gold (called Thazhikakuda in Malayalam) on the top adds to the majasty of the gopuram.
There is a big Tank within the Temple premises.
This Temple is known for its art and architectural beauty, with wood and stone carvings covering the walls. There are beautiful Murals from Mythological stories on the walls. When we were there for Pooja, we could see huge Uruly type of old bell metal containers full of Payasam and other prasadams being sent out for distribution, which were offered to the main and only diety "Sri Bharathalwar".
I am told this is a place for meditation, since It is believed that "Sri Bharathalwar" is in meditation here. This is a peaceful place without much crowd.
I would request the readers not to miss this place, when they visit Guruvayur or Trissur.

Regards,
Brahmanyan.
 
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