Teach your sons to love

[kunjuppu]

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should we teach our sons how to love?

I ask this quite seriously, as I find that even now, in many households, the attitude towards romance is, ‘kaadhalavuthu kathrikkavathu’.

I have lost count of the number of bride seekers in this forum. Something tells me, that these boys were the residuals of the ambis – studious, live by the writ of the parents, got a good job and by the rainfall process, now look upon their parents to find them a spouse. Somehow, life rules have changed and these guys (& their parents) are left adrift in this world of female self realization, female economic ascendency and above all a sense of equality across genders.

Something tells me that we still have tambram boys in their teens and twenties still at odds as to how to approach the female gender with a view to romancing and mating. Much of it is due to a fear inspired by parental admonitions. As parents, if we are interested in the welfare of our boys, maybe we should slightly alter our attitudes. After all, won’t many of us be just happy if our boys found a tambram wife. How can they do it, if they do not know how to converse and impress the other gender.

It is indeed a sad situation, when I see, even in my own family, boys in their mid twenties, handsome, good paying jobs, and when urged by the parents as to it being the time to settle down – start listing specifications so clinically – one example: the girl must be 5’8” for starters. I am not sure, if this specification, was meant with an underlying motive, ie the boy has someone in mind, and knows very well the dearth of 5’8” tambram girls. and then once this is achieved, when I read the other specs, I have to shake my head and wonder which world this chap is in. after all this, there is the jadhagam. Is it a wonder that we have folks like Meenakshy or Krishnamurthy exhausting themselves.

So, I think, we should give parameters, just like we do for education, and urge from our teens onwards, not to neglect another very important aspect of life. Ie mating. More on this later.

I think, since the female are the ‘hunted’ our tambram girls have no such hangups. Infact, in today’s world, they appear to cherish all the attention they get, from youths across the spectrum of language, race, creed and tongues.

Puts our boys with a huge handicap. No?

 

[sangom]

YouTube - Yenna Ithu - Nala Damayanti

should we teach our sons how to love?

I ask this quite seriously, as I find that even now, in many households, the attitude towards romance is, ‘kaadhalavuthu kathrikkavathu’.

I have lost count of the number of bride seekers in this forum. Something tells me, that these boys were the residuals of the ambis – studious, live by the writ of the parents, got a good job and by the rainfall process, now look upon their parents to find them a spouse. Somehow, life rules have changed and these guys (& their parents) are left adrift in this world of female self realization, female economic ascendency and above all a sense of equality across genders.

Something tells me that we still have tambram boys in their teens and twenties still at odds as to how to approach the female gender with a view to romancing and mating. Much of it is due to a fear inspired by parental admonitions. As parents, if we are interested in the welfare of our boys, maybe we should slightly alter our attitudes. After all, won’t many of us be just happy if our boys found a tambram wife. How can they do it, if they do not know how to converse and impress the other gender.

It is indeed a sad situation, when I see, even in my own family, boys in their mid twenties, handsome, good paying jobs, and when urged by the parents as to it being the time to settle down – start listing specifications so clinically – one example: the girl must be 5’8” for starters. I am not sure, if this specification, was meant with an underlying motive, ie the boy has someone in mind, and knows very well the dearth of 5’8” tambram girls. and then once this is achieved, when I read the other specs, I have to shake my head and wonder which world this chap is in. after all this, there is the jadhagam. Is it a wonder that we have folks like Meenakshy or Krishnamurthy exhausting themselves.

So, I think, we should give parameters, just like we do for education, and urge from our teens onwards, not to neglect another very important aspect of life. Ie mating. More on this later.

I think, since the female are the ‘hunted’ our tambram girls have no such hangups. Infact, in today’s world, they appear to cherish all the attention they get, from youths across the spectrum of language, race, creed and tongues.

Puts our boys with a huge handicap. No?

Dear Kunjuppu,

You are virtually bringing fish curry, toddy and ganja - all at the same time, so to say, into a pure brahman house

Before I may respond, I have some confusion about what your own precise notions are about kaadhal and mating, two words you have used above.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Sangom,

Having brought up in a strict tambram household myself, the concept of romance, dating et al, is something I am learning from my children, who have been brought up in Toronto, and whose father has no such qualms about imposing any restrictions on what they believe is nature’s natural progression of growth. I think, I can safely vouch that my wife shares similar views, she being brought up in identical behavioural orthodoxy.

So take kaadhal. To me it is the process of falling in love, and going crazy. Not ashamed and keeping it on the sly, like I used to do when I was a teenager, and let is pass by, yearn and then grow out of it. My sons grow crazy, act crazy and behave very much like simbu in vinnai thandi varuvaya, when they fall in love. Each time it is a lovely lass who is the most beautiful girl in the world, till they meet the next one. After the first few, each settles to a longer and serious relationship. Much evaluation, prospects, etc takes place here.it is the point of filteration, of temporary vs permanence.

the young lady in the song attached in my opening post does something like that very well.

Mating: progress towards marriage. My children have not yet progressed to this level as no one has indicated any indication of intentions of marriage towards their current paramours – various reasons, which I would not let out in public.

hope this answers your query. somewhat?

 

[B Suresh Kumar]

Dear Kunjuppu,
You may not have many takers for your suggestion. The culture still prevailing in Indian tamilbarahmin is towards orthodoxy but would like to open up within certain boundaries.
It may not be as free as in toronto

 

[kunjuppu]

dear suresh,

believe it or not, i found the extremes in chennai, among my nephews. on one hand, there were sophisticated relationships established based on parameters, which i would give to my own children. these, for sure belong to upper mid class tambrams, and very quickly found their mates, within the same class structure.

what surprised me, was some of the girls would go only for brahmin boys and others even though they proclaimed that caste or religion did not matter, settled for handsome tambrams (and great relief for their parents).

then, i have orthodox and/or strict parent cases: where the offshoots are miserable. one 28 year old girl, has rejected so many candidates, that her grandmother said somewhat disgusted, இந்த அச்சுபிச்சுக்கு சரியா எவனையும் பிடுச்சிக்க தெரியல்லை. நம்மளே இப்படி தொல்லை கொடுக்கராப்பாரு!!

i think between the two, the parents have to loosen up and give some onus on the children to find their own mates. while there is no guarantee whom they find, will please the parents, i have surprisingly found, that the sense of ethnicity is surprisingly strong in chennai, blore, hyd to seek one's own community.

anyways, this is better than the situations here, we find from anxious and frustrated parents, who 'demand nothing but a simple marriage'. appears that any tambram girl just with heart beating should be able to find a spouse. though reality appears not as simple as that. we simply do not have enough numbers to satisfy both the youngsters and the parents. that is a sad fact, that though india's population is exploding, us tambrams are shrinking in the land of our birth

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

To ALL,
In western countries,their culture permits the boys and girls to live together even without a formal marriage,beget one or two children.This process helps both the individuals to have first hand experience of the other person's likes,dislikes.After spending a few years together and after getting children they may take a decision either to get married or go separately and again try their fortune in the open market.
In indian situation a girl/boy who loves a boy/girl do not come to know about the other person before marriage and only after the marriage they get to know the deficiencies/defects in the other person.Some may lead a unhappy married life fearing for the family prestige/society.Some girls get depression affecting both the partners.In many cases they go for divorce.

Before liking/loving a person and desiring to take him/her as life partner one has to see the cultural viability as everyone in this world live in a 'Group' of people having same values.
After all marriage is not a process of experimentation.Daily I see an advertisement in TV where a (South Indian boy who has married a western society girl)living in a western country dislikes eating only salads for all time and how he is happy to eat masala dosa
and wrongly thinks that his mother has come from India.At least food habits should be similar.
Even the Nany in our house (a lady from central america aged 60plus is not happy that her son aged 28 years is having a girl friend (a Filipino girl)married,divorced with a 7 year old son.She is not happy,often tells me that her son should have atleast selected a girl who knows cooking and who will feed him lifelong as his life partner after marriage.
So,I am unable to agree fully with Shri.Kunjuppu.I agree the Parents,BOYS and GIRLS should be modern in their outlook.Both Girls/Boys should take guidance of their parents
in selecting their life partner as Parents are their well wishers.

 

[Nara]

...Even the Nany in our house (a lady from central america aged 60plus is not happy that her son aged 28 years is having a girl friend (a Filipino girl)married,divorced with a 7 year old son.She is not happy,often tells me that her son should have atleast selected a girl who knows cooking and who will feed him lifelong as his life partner after marriage.

Dear BK sir, I respect your views, you always show a balanced outlook. In this case also you are only expressing a reality that still exists in India and other conservative societies that are male-centered and male-dominated. This is why this 60+ mother wishes for her son to find a mate who will feed him for his life. Why is it the girl's responsibility, by default, to cook for her mate? Is a mother of a girl allowed to wish for her daughter to find a boy, or another girl for that matter, who will cook for her as a life partner?

There is a lot of consternation that the boys and girls these days want some understanding from their potential partners to share and possibly even encourage their own likes, outlook, goals, etc. In my dad's time, the boys and girls were not even consulted about their marriage. My uncle never misses an opportunity to tell me, that his own father simply sent him a post-card telling him to come over to get married, he didn't even know who the girl was, it turned out it was his own niece. In my generation, the norm was to have the boy and girl see each other, a ritual often referred to as பஞ்சி, சொஞ்சி.

All this didn't matter a whole lot -- as someone else observed, most girls from those times aspired for nothing more than to serve their husbands and raise children. Those days are gone. Our own culture now encourages our girls to be whatever they want to be. Under this zeitgeist, one that we ourselves fashioned, it is downright cruel to now expect our wonderful and beautiful girls to accept a life our wives accepted, albeit reluctantly.

In the present circumstance, the only thing that stands in the way of our youngsters finding their own partners, love of their life, one with whom a truly loving marriage can be forged, is the "moral" standards TBs expect from their girls. A TB girl who has a loving relationship outside a socially sanctioned marriage is considered a slut. The upwardly mobile middle-class TB families want TB girls, be their daughters or would-be DILs, to be forward in all respects except finding a life partner.

Unless each TB family, one family at a time, comes to terms with this dichotomy, problems will persist. Only when our girls are freed from the norms of the uptight and constipated (h/t K) older gen, a time when TB parents don't get devastated when their never married presumed virgin son chooses a divorced or widowed woman for his wife, these problems will ebb.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Kunjuppu, Greetings.

I am trying to build up a general response for you from the above opening post and subsequent posts addressed to Sri.Sangom and Sri.Suresh.

Dear Sangom,

Having brought up in a strict tambram household myself, the concept of romance, dating et al, is something I am learning from my children, who have been brought up in Toronto, and whose father has no such qualms about imposing any restrictions on what they believe is nature’s natural progression of growth. I think, I can safely vouch that my wife shares similar views, she being brought up in identical behavioural orthodoxy.

First of all, from what you wrote about your household, you have not been brought up in a strict household. The kind of liberty and fun you had while in your youth were the stuff of our ('our' represent few of the boys grew up with me; girls are not included) fantasy. We grew up in a regimental situation. In most situations, orthodoxy came first. (My grandma was different. She loved independece for the kids. But would not openly defy orthodoxy... result? I was 'expendable' at the alter of orthodoxy. She used to 'kick me out' of the house on every 'thevasam' days. Strangely enough, there were three days in our home, every year! What's more, I used to look forward for those days). All those orthodoxy not withstanding, we had plenty of romance, broken hearts etc. Some of the ladies used to 'whisper' about few girls who grew up in our small village, who would have put most of the cosmopolitan modern European girls to shame with their experiments with sex! By the way, such feelings were not restricted by caste. But inter-caste success rate was nil.

.....Something tells me that we still have tambram boys in their teens and twenties still at odds as to how to approach the female gender with a view to romancing and mating. Much of it is due to a fear inspired by parental admonitions. As parents, if we are interested in the welfare of our boys, maybe we should slightly alter our attitudes. After all, won’t many of us be just happy if our boys found a tambram wife. How can they do it, if they do not know how to converse and impress the other gender.

In most cases, boys need not approach the girls at all. Girls send vibes, messages through body languages, by showing extra interest etc, as of today. They did the exact same thing 35 years ago; possibly they did all the time. Such signals are sent to 'all the boys', irrespective of desire to take it further. It did not matter... rich/poor/village/town/orthodox anything! Boys need to present themselves in the company of girls. That is important. I sensed such first signalssignals at my age of 14 yrs, from a girl in Coimbatore. She had no desire to further those signals. When I openly asked her about such actions, initially she was baffeled by my frankness, accepted she sent signals and also warned me she had no desire to take it any further.

Any of the boys who avoid girl's presence may not be aware of such signals. Girls have 100s of ways to send the signals; it is up to the boys to take it further. சொல்லிக்கொடுத்து வருவதில்லை மன்மதக்கலை. Girls want to be taken; they send signals to everyone; who dares wins....of all the persons who dared, the best of the lot wins. (After all that, still the girl could change her mind. I have seen that happen too! But, in any event, unless the boys are in the race, they can't win the trophy. Every girl wants them to be considered as a trophy, to be won in a competetion. Try telling your wife 'I am glad I won your hand in marriage'; usually she would go putty, unless in the middle of a fight, she is raising the broom with an intention of using it; the praising may not work in such situations though!). I have spoken to white/brown/black/rich/poor/educated/illeterate girls; they all have one strong desire...to be won by their partners.

All these 'arranged marriage', negotiations of cash, vessels, expenses, gold...all the regimental list of demands, drawn out negotiations etc took away the felling of 'winning the hands in marriage' for the girl (and for the boy too). I don't think any self-respecting boy/girl would go through that, if they could help it. It is up to the parents to make 'other options' available to their children. We follow way too many restrictions. For example, why should, boy's parent's education/status level affect marriages? But it does. We make so many restrictions and wonder about the lack of choices!

....So take kaadhal. To me it is the process of falling in love, and going crazy. Not ashamed and keeping it on the sly, like I used to do when I was a teenager, and let is pass by, yearn and then grow out of it. My sons grow crazy, act crazy and behave very much like simbu in vinnai thandi varuvaya, when they fall in love.

Not all the persons act in the same way. Some of them are a bit more seriously commited than the others. Not all the boys are blessed with 'Vinnai thandi varuvaya' boy's parents. "போடா தண்டச்சோறு! நாலு காசு சம்பாதிக்க துப்பில்ல, ஐயாக்கு காதல் கேட்கறதோ? போய் பொழைக்கற வழியப்பாரு!"... this is the standard dialogue received by alomst all the middle class boys? So, most boys and girls are forced to keep the 'love' out of sight and wait for the right moment.

Secondly, some of us could be quite serious. If we desire something, we may not stop until we had it. Our love could very serious like 'Guna' love; won't hesitate to kidnap, fight, hurt or get hurt to win the hands of the girl in marriage. In fact, I am more used to 'Guna type love'; no experiments, all real. Such persons don't even care about 'signals' and all the other nicities. They are like lions; when the need araises, just go and hunt, bring back the prize. Period. It takes a lot of physical and psychological strength. Parents should provide such psychological support to their children.

Not all the parents provide psycholgical support to their children. For example, my sister liked one of the boys in the village (same caste, same sub-caste, different Gothra); my father beat her up with first stick that was handy at that time; I copped a few too 'just in case'. Couple of years later, the same village, the same street, one young girl liked 'yours respectfully'. Initially her father became very angry; but in a couple of days, he was gathering information about me from all my friends, from my work-place etc; with in a week, he was talking to me to explain 'why such a marriage would not happen'; In response, I politely requested him to 'jump in the nearest river' and started 'dating' that girl in that village. strangely enough, her father, not once got angry with me; he saw us together in few different occassions. He was giving a lot of psychological support to his daughter. He was enjoying my antics, knowing very well that I could be trusted. The parents should trust their children and give them support.

I think, since the female are the ‘hunted’ our tambram girls have no such hangups. Infact, in today’s world, they appear to cherish all the attention they get, from youths across the spectrum of language, race, creed and tongues.

Puts our boys with a huge handicap. No?

In my opinion, no. The boys should be smart enough to win the girls hands; they should participate in the race; stay in the race until they win the trophy; should be bold enough open a conversation with a girl 'you are going to be mine; I am strongly attracted to you' ..or in such similar lines; they should back up such big talk with actions. Boys don't have handicaps; if the boys go 'sissys', that is not counted as handicaps.

I am sure, our sisters in this forums would have an opinion or two to share with us. After all, பாம்பறியும் பாம்பின் கால்!

Cheers!

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

Love is a strange experience. Love stories were there in old times also. We have such love stories in our midst also. All these love affairs do not end in success though many of them end in marriage and some of them end with marriage. There is no need to teach love. பொண்ணுக்கு ஆசையும் பையனுக்கு துணிச்சலும் இருந்தா போதும். But then why all such encounters do not result in marriage and consummation? It is because the boy may still not be confident and the girl may still not have the complete trust. பொண்ணுக்கு ஆசைன்னு இங்க சொல்றது கல்யாணம் பண்ணிண்டு கூட வாழணும்கர ஒரு intense desire . துணிச்சல் ங்கறது உன்னுடைய நல்லது கெட்டது எல்லாத்துக்கு சேர்த்து உன்னை விரும்பி உன்கூட என்ன வந்தாலும் போனாலும் வாழமுடியும் கற உறுதிக்கு அடிப்படையான துணிச்சல். If the two people have this then they marry. When they have doubts about this they post pone a decision and some times miss the bus.

 

[aquaris328]

how to meditate

when i was i totally disappointed by the facts and realities of this world issues generated by nature or any other source including man and other living things. But at that moment i took a sigh of relief and came to know that if i change my thoughts then i may free myself from these types of disappointments.

This was the first step that has compelled me to get involved in meditation. But i dont know how to meditate. I need to learn it. I have come across many sites as spiritualeyes.info/types-of-meditation.html

but need complete guidance that how to meditate...

 

[kalyanaraman]

the present genaration is not brought up on human relationship hence they miss finer aspects of life it is very sad

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Raju, greetings.

.....All these love affairs do not end in success though many of them end in marriage and some of them end with marriage.

I could not help, but laugh when I read the quoted portion; but, it is so true!

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

when i was i totally disappointed by the facts and realities of this world issues generated by nature or any other source including man and other living things. But at that moment i took a sigh of relief and came to know that if i change my thoughts then i may free myself from these types of disappointments.

This was the first step that has compelled me to get involved in meditation. But i dont know how to meditate. I need to learn it. I have come across many sites as spiritualeyes.info/types-of-meditation.html

but need complete guidance that how to meditate...

... but did you teach your son to love? to romance? to kaadhal?

 

[kunjuppu]

raghy (#8), suraju (#9),

i think what you guys are saying, atleast for the 50+ crowd here, is miniscule truth. so far only raghy and KRS have admitted to love marriages. and that too only raghy had it in india. with a fellow iyengar lass.

you guys underestimate the power of subordination of the parents. in the case of yours truly, there was a cute tambram girl, 2 years younger than me, middle class and just about everything compatible (dont know jadhagam or star), good friend of my younger sister. she and i used to exchange glances, but my mother kashugu eyes caught me at it always.

with one look she used to silence my interests and longings. for my mom, during my teen years, girls were either an unwanted distraction (from studies ) or 'not good enough for her son - i am guessing'. because i dont think any girl i chose myself would have been good enough for her, which is why i demurred with even meeting girls when i was a bachelor in canada.

also, she had me convinced she knew better for me, than i did. perhaps she did, because she was an excellent judge of character, and the girl she selected, and whom i eventually married, had given me a fulfilled life, and i never tire of telling my spouse that she was the best gift to me.

still, when one looks back, one cannot but meander into thinking 'what if'. my boy cousins of similar age group of those times were also imposed with severity, that many of them, i felt were mentally eunuchised.

surprisingly not so the girls. my sister, just a few years younger, not only agreed to the guy who was after her (accepted that he had dil and panache unlike most paappaan choplangis), but he could boldly walk in the street, knock our house door and talk to my sis in front of the 'whole world', much to my mother's anxiety. nothing could stop him, or my sister.

i am still amazed, how in the same household, the two genders were treated so differently. the eldest boy always has it tough and i suspect that many of the unmarried bachelors in their 30s today are all eldest child. i have nothing but empathy and sympathy for these chaps. and it sort of grieves me, that in this day and age, we still have parents who bring up their sons to be ammanjis. sad.

raghy, your story is an exception. are you the oldest child? oldest son? i am very surprised at the lack of monitoring of your movements by your mom. in my case every minute of mine has to be accounted for, for which reason, i managed to get out of home the first opportunity presented to me, and vowed never to stay with my parents again. so, in these days, when i get private message about the unruly or uncouth behaviour of some tambram girl wishing to run away or putting an ad to marry anyone, i blame the parents for this feeling.

 

[kkumar29]

Hi Kunjuppu,

I have no problem admitting that I am married to a Roman Cathollic woman and I have been married for more than 32 years. We got married in India and I am from what you would call a conservative Smartha family. As someone said if there is a will there is always a way and
I can state with absolute authority that you can make it work:whoo:

K. Kumar

 

[kiruku]

Well, I do not qualify for the 50+ --> getting there.

Ours was a love marriage - arranged marriage for the rest of the world - from a Brahmin family well known to our family.
Started very young - in school days - parents unhappy from both sides (my grandma said that these things happen only in movies!!).

When I finished my degree & got a reasonable job (after 5+ years), they checked the horoscopes and agreed.
After 20 years + (overseas citizenship + kids) and everyone is satisfied.

Looking at my friends (who tried love and failed in their endeavours) , we know that we have all been lucky.

Do we support love marriage for our kids? Depends on the girl & her background (must be Brahmins).

My wife had been outlining her views (& family values) from an early age. We will see what happens.

 

[Nara]

.....Do we support love marriage for our kids? Depends on the girl & her background (must be Brahmins).

Strange way to support kids choosing their own mates, support is conditioned on the child checking the birth certificate of the one they are attracted to.

Cheers!

 

[kiruku]

Strange way to support kids choosing their own mates, support is conditioned on the child checking the birth certificate of the one they are attracted to.

Cheers!

1. We get attracted to a number of people - choosing your partner requires other considerations as well.
2. The children (in fact, the whole family) are pure vegetarians - wouldn't touch meat though they were born & brought up overseas (It was their choice once they learnt why their parents were vegetarians). My wife had been outlining the issues they will face (& the compromises they will have to make) if they do not choose someone, who shares similar values. After that, it is their choice and decision - it is their life.

 

[sangom]

you guys underestimate the power of subordination of the parents. in the case of yours truly, there was a cute tambram girl, 2 years younger than me, middle class and just about everything compatible (dont know jadhagam or star), good friend of my younger sister. she and i used to exchange glances, but my mother kashugu eyes caught me at it always.

with one look she used to silence my interests and longings. for my mom, during my teen years, girls were either an unwanted distraction (from studies ) or 'not good enough for her son - i am guessing'. because i dont think any girl i chose myself would have been good enough for her, which is why i demurred with even meeting girls when i was a bachelor in canada.

also, she had me convinced she knew better for me, than i did. perhaps she did, because she was an excellent judge of character, and the girl she selected, and whom i eventually married, had given me a fulfilled life, and i never tire of telling my spouse that she was the best gift to me.

still, when one looks back, one cannot but meander into thinking 'what if'. my boy cousins of similar age group of those times were also imposed with severity, that many of them, i felt were mentally eunuchised.

surprisingly not so the girls. my sister, just a few years younger, not only agreed to the guy who was after her (accepted that he had dil and panache unlike most paappaan choplangis), but he could boldly walk in the street, knock our house door and talk to my sis in front of the 'whole world', much to my mother's anxiety. nothing could stop him, or my sister.

i am still amazed, how in the same household, the two genders were treated so differently. the eldest boy always has it tough and i suspect that many of the unmarried bachelors in their 30s today are all eldest child. i have nothing but empathy and sympathy for these chaps. and it sort of grieves me, that in this day and age, we still have parents who bring up their sons to be ammanjis. sad.

raghy, your story is an exception. are you the oldest child? oldest son? i am very surprised at the lack of monitoring of your movements by your mom. in my case every minute of mine has to be accounted for, for which reason, i managed to get out of home the first opportunity presented to me, and vowed never to stay with my parents again. so, in these days, when i get private message about the unruly or uncouth behaviour of some tambram girl wishing to run away or putting an ad to marry anyone, i blame the parents for this feeling.

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

I now realize that your mother had so much mentally overpowered you (and you were a very disciplined and "nice" sort of boy) that I am glad your life has been a successful one. IMHO and experience, it could happen just because you took a strong decision to go to Canada where your mother's influence would not reach. Had you remained in India I am sure your life would have been less successful.

There are many such mothers among tabras and, as an older person compared to you, such females could grow into veritable phenomena because they could sort of terrorize and subdue their husbands in the first place. But this said, the majority of the tambram households were different IMO. The mother would holler, scold, even use abusive words for their sons when angry but it was the father whose one look was probably more powerful than all the noise and drama of the mother. In my case I can confidently say that my father never "scolded" any of us four except once beating my younger brother, when my father was probably under great emotional stress. But none of us would disobey his glance. At the same time he was not a disciplinarian and he never asked us about our study, home work, marks, etc. Even progress cards he used to sign without any comment/s. His only rule was - and this he said also - that he won't pay for the same class again, meaning we should not fail in the annual exams.

Under such circumstances love was theoretically possible and father might not have stood in the way if it was a brahman girl (I think) but somehow, I did not feel at any time that a particular girl alone has to be my wife (though almost all girls look attractive to a boy in some period of his life )

What you describe as happening in the case of your children in far away Toronto looks little odd to me. Getting enamoured of one girl/boy as the case may be, being close with her/him till it breaks due to either's decision, then search and find the next and so os and on. What charm will it be when finally someone becomes a life-partner? Will it not be a tired and worn out exercise? I don't know.

Just some thoughts.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

you guys underestimate the power of subordination of the parents. in the case of yours truly, there was a cute tambram girl, 2 years younger than me, middle class and just about everything compatible (dont know jadhagam or star), good friend of my younger sister. she and i used to exchange glances, but my mother kashugu eyes caught me at it always.
with one look she used to silence my interests and longings. for my mom, during my teen years, girls were either an unwanted distraction (from studies ) or 'not good enough for her son - i am guessing'. because i dont think any girl i chose myself would have been good enough for her, which is why i demurred with even meeting girls when i was a bachelor in canada.
also, she had me convinced she knew better for me, than i did. perhaps she did, because she was an excellent judge of character, and the girl she selected, and whom i eventually married, had given me a fulfilled life, and i never tire of telling my spouse that she was the best gift to me.

In my case the father was very intellectual, knew the past, present and the future,hovering in the periphery and yet without missing any small detail, sharply intervening when the matters came to a head or were drifting, whose path no body in the family dared to cross. Inspite of all this detachment, he took care to teach me values which are my precious gems. He knew the meaning and logic of every thing he did and he took pains to teach them to me. Every time I say "Upachaaraan apathesena kruthaan ..............apachaaraan imaan sarvaan kshamasva purushottama" at the end of the morning puja I remember him and what he said about the manobhaavam required to say that. I have learnt in life many things from him by just observing him. And coming to the point, when I told him about my love and determination to marry the girl whom I loved, he just asked a few relevant questions and said it is okay.

My mother was more formidable. She was a very powerful personality who ruled her saamraajyam (the family and the house) with an iron hand. For me she was not only my mother, she was a friend and a conscience keeper also. She knew me better than myself and she knew that I know that. She had a blind faith in my father that whatever he decides will always be correct. That perhaps came out of her love and affection for him. When I mentioned my love and determination to marry the girl whom I loved, she was not happy. But I engaged her in conversation and arguments and finally she agreed with my choice. She had meticulously constructed her image with me that she was very reasonable and she had to live up to that reputation. She agreed. We married and we are living happily. So Kunjuppu sir, a powerful, domineering mother can also be made to see reason if you are persuasive--the moral of the story!!.

surprisingly not so the girls. my sister, just a few years younger, not only agreed to the guy who was after her (accepted that he had dil and panache unlike most paappaan choplangis), but he could boldly walk in the street, knock our house door and talk to my sis in front of the 'whole world', much to my mother's anxiety. nothing could stop him, or my sister.

This is what I have mentioned in my earlier post as ஆசை & துணிச்சல்

Cheers

 

[sravna]

IMO, compatibility is lot less relevant today as the expectations of the girls are more or less the same. To me, it is not an issue. Love should not be reduced to ways of expressing yourself to the other sex but importantly it has to be there inside. In that sense you cannot be taught to love. You are either capable of loving or not though right expressions make it more effective. Also IMO loving is more sublime than being loved and an event such as marriage can really make you. But I am afraid nowadays everybody expects a return and seem to miss a very crucial element in love.

 

[kunjuppu]

sravana,

i have more faith in the current generation, it appears than you. i think folks are just as good, loving and capable of loving as folks of my generation.

except maybe now if they express it out, they are not suppressed to the extent that was practised 50 years ago. maybe because the suppressed youths of my generation have become parents now, and do not want to repeat the cycle.

still pockets of complete subjugation is there. why else is there so many boys' parents lamenting on the availability of tambram brides? if the boys were left to follow their hearts, these would have taken it upon themselves to find a partner. to them it would have been another life fulfilling act, like completing an education and finding a job. atleast they would have felt the onus on themselves.

this is what i think anyway.

 

[kunjuppu]

...

This is what I have mentioned in my earlier post as ஆசை & துணிச்சல்

Cheers

looking back over time, i would have to confess, that yours truly had the ஆசை but lacked the துணிச்சல்

 

[Nara]

K, I think the title of this thread is backwards. As you noted elsewhere, the 50+ TBs are invariably conservative with a chip on their shoulders. Asking them to teach their sons to love is like asking MK to teach his sons to run a clean government.

What is more apt here, IMO, is to ask the sons to teach their fathers how to love, how to love their own wives, how to love their children, how to love people of all stripes.

Cheers!