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TB guys marrying Non Indian/Non Hindu girls.

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renuka

Well-known member
I have copied and pasted this post from Hello Tamil Brahmins again :) after nearly 2 years! - in the General Discussions forum of Tamil Brahmins.

Dear all,


I am going to be point blank here..before that..Theblues, please dont get me wrong this question has nothing to do with you and I wish the best for you and your partner but this question is for all the guys here.

Here goes..dear all..since I am Non Brahmin and rather a neutral observer I would like to ask this question?

Q) In other threads I have seen where the cases of TB girls marrying NB guys being discussed as if its almost the end of the world and TB girls are blamed non stop for it but how come here I see a different tune being sung?

Why cases where TB boys marrying Non Indians/Non Hindus are viewed so differently and in fact being supported and still TB girls are blamed for this saying that their demands drive the TB boys away to other races.

I wonder why this double standards?
 

prasad1

Well-known member
To me neither is a big deal. The families should be involved if possible, as marriages in Indian household is a family affair.

The possible double standard may be due to patriarchal family structure. The grand kids still have the boys lineage. That is my guess.
 

Raghy

Well-known member
Sowbagyavathy Renuka, Greetings.

You don't have to be a Non-Brahmin person to ask this question.

I am looking at this subject in a neutral sense too. It is not only some of the Brahmins who are unhappy about Brahmin girls marrying non-brahmin boys, but also some people from other castes have the same feeling too. So, responses need not focus on Brahmins only.

Why this double standard? well, in my opinion, some of the persons believe they 'own' their daughters/sisters. so, it is bad when the girls opt to 'fall in love' with someone; it becomes worst when the receipent of love turns out to belong to a different caste. The sense loosing control is the first reaction. I have a daughter, I know this feeling. ( But now I am more settled. even last night I was having a discussion about this same subject with my daughter. She was sitting down, listening to my input in the subject).

Girls from other communities are not accepted whole heartedly either. When I was young, I know of many such affairs were the girls were used by the boys and dumped later on.As I am typing, I could already think of 6 such girls.... so, it is not very different.

If brahmin boys are choosing non-brahmin girls, we can't really blame brahmin girls for that; not in general sense. I actually suggested one brahmin boy to consider a NB girl. He was not successful in attracting a brahmin girl. but such cases may be isolated incidents only.

Cheers!
 

Naina_Marbus

Well-known member
@Renuka:

In fact you have answered this question else where yourself - anulomam vs pratilomam. And all castes follow this.
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by KRS

Simple, dear Srimathi Renuka Ji! As BG says, the women in any culture are the repository for keeping that culture alive.

Regards,
KRS

Dear KRS ji,

Its not as if these Indian guys both Brahmin and Non Brahmins when they marry out of their race and religion adhere to Hindu lifestyle most of the while.

Some even convert for marriage purposes and the non Hindu wife who was very docile before marriage becomes a tigress to have a full non hindu reign at home.

I am speaking from experience in my own family circles and countless cases of friends.

So I dont see how a Non Hindu/Non Indian woman can be the Kudumba Kutthu Vilaku in majority of cases.

Most Indian/Hindu guys will be singing "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star..Now I Really Know What You Are " after an interracial/inter religious marriage.
 
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KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sister Renu,

I married a Jewish woman. My elder brother married a Christian. Yet both turned out to be very Hindu in raising their children.

What is Hindu? Don't impose your idea of a religion on the offspring. Let them be exposed to all religions and cultures and let them choose.

It is just that in any culture, the women play a majority role in the lives of the children, this dichotomy happens.

By the way, most Hindu families believe that the heart string between a mother and a son is the strongest in the universe. So, they don't worry - the boy will always be a Mama's boy. Not so with a daughter.

I almost wanted to advise Srimathi Blues Ji, to make sure that her hubby speaks for her to his mom.

Regards,
KRS
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Sister Renu,

I married a Jewish woman. My elder brother married a Christian. Yet both turned out to be very Hindu in raising their children.

What is Hindu? Don't impose your idea of a religion on the offspring. Let them be exposed to all religions and cultures and let them choose.

It is just that in any culture, the women play a majority role in the lives of the children, this dichotomy happens.

By the way, most Hindu families believe that the heart string between a mother and a son is the strongest in the universe. So, they don't worry - the boy will always be a Mama's boy. Not so with a daughter.

I almost wanted to advise Srimathi Blues Ji, to make sure that her hubby speaks for her to his mom.

Regards,
KRS


Dear KRSJi,

In your case it turned out different and for the good becos it did not involve conversion.

Out here the cases I know..compulsory conversion took place and there is no way children can be free to choose their religion.

Nowadays I see that this heart string attachment is not really there anymore..its more of purse string attachment when it comes to kids and parents( all too concerned for money and inheritance).

To a certain extent I agree that men will be Mama's boys but they also hurt their mamas the most by taking them for granted.

Daughters have a unique relationship with parents..they care and love their parents but do not take them for granted.
 
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KRS

Well-known member
Dear sister Renu,

You said:
A daughter has a unique relationship with parents..they care and love them but do not take them for granted.​


Sorry, this applies only to those who stay within the fold. Did not apply to my late wife nor to my SIL.

I have never visited Malaysia, even though I was in Singapore for almost 6 months. Sorry to say this, never liked the culture - Bhoomiputra and what not.

But, all these prejudices aside, humanity is humanity. This is why your question and the answer to it are Universal. Ask any endangered communities, be it Jews in America or the Parsis in India, they do not care about who their sons marry.

Regards,
KRS​
 
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
Dear KRSJi,

I had witnessed once a case where a Brahmin had married a Non Indian Christian person who was actually "nice" but till the day her MIL died.

During the funeral she was making all sorts of unwanted comments about the Hindu culture of bathing a deceased person saying that she wont even touch a dead body it makes her nauseated and also was kicking up a big fuss in front of all relatives and didnt want to be vegetarian till the asaucham period was over.

The Brahmin man concerned was just quiet and was making so many mistakes during the final rites of his mother most probably unhappy with his wifes behaviour.
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sister Renu Ji,

So whose fault it is? Any man who keeps quiet when his mother is vilified is a no man at all. And any man who does not speak up for his wife when she is attacked is no man at all also.

Regards,
KRS
 

ozone

Active member
Dear KRSJi,

I had witnessed once a case where a Brahmin had married a Non Indian Christian person who was actually "nice" but till the day her MIL died.

During the funeral she was making all sorts of unwanted comments about the Hindu culture of bathing a deceased person saying that she wont even touch a dead body it makes her nauseated and also was kicking up a big fuss in front of all relatives and didnt want to be vegetarian till the asaucham period was over.

The Brahmin man concerned was just quiet and was making so many mistakes during the final rites of his mother most probably unhappy with his wifes behaviour.

Should have been the moment of truth for this gentleman. One day in the life when you realise people from the same background or culture matter a lot. Great post !!
 

ozone

Active member
A man who sacrifices everything (or so pretends) for the sake of love is indeed the greatest man !!!
HA ha
 

sarma-61

New member
I have given my views in the original thread started by Ms. the blues and she has also kindly responded to it here.

What I understand from her reply is that she is very sincere in getting along with her mil and also perhaps other close relatives of her husband. But, in my view, the primary duty of a son or daughter is towards his/her parents, as clearly stated in the Upanishadic advice of mātṛ devo bhava | pitṛ devo bhava |. What I see here in this forum is a twisted view giving an impression as though the members here are all as "emancipated" as in the western countries. (of course, some of the posters are settled down in US and other countries as citizens of those countries and have almost been converted to the customs, habits, beliefs, value systems, etc., in those countries; curiously, it is they who seem to talk for the entire tabra community in India! This is yet another example of people who are just quarter-baked tabras posing as true representatives of all tabras of the world.)

Let me tell you that back here in Kerala, there are sizeable tabra populations and they do not contribute to such views; I say this because I am one among these Kerala-based tabras, I live amidst them and know the pulse of the community. Ordinarily, no parent wants his/her son/daughter to marry out of caste; many still are selective about the sub-caste/s also. This can be verified from any matrimony site for Tamil Brahmins. They do get girls/boys from the sub-castes of their choice and marriages are being celebrated.

If a Tabra boy or girl says he has "fallen in love" with a girl/boy from other caste/religion/nationality, the parents will definitely get a shock of their life from which they will not recover ever afterwards. Because the law of the land (India, I mean) has been so changed now, and a girl gets all powers, in most such cases, the parents have to accede to their children's wishes. And, marriages happen as wished by the children with spouse from other caste/ religion/ country. But one thing is certain and I have witnessed this many times; the parents feel so let down by their wayward children that even if they don't curse, the effect of more than a curse will visit those "love-mad" offsprings and may manifest in ever so many ways at a later date. As devout people believe, God has hundred and one ways to protect us from troubles, but He also has thousand and one ways to punish us and time is of no concern to Him.

I therefore will say that boys and girls should listen to the advice of their parents in matters relating to marriage and abide by those advices. "Falling in love" is like "Falling in quicksand" - it kills.
 

C RAVI

Well-known member
Q) In other threads I have seen where the cases of TB girls marrying NB guys being discussed as if its almost the end of the world and TB girls are blamed non stop for it but how come here I see a different tune being sung?

Why cases where TB boys marrying Non Indians/Non Hindus are viewed so differently and in fact being supported and still TB girls are blamed for this saying that their demands drive the TB boys away to other races.

I wonder why this double standards?

Dear Renuka,

To be very frank with you, I am really surprised to read your post with a question here, thinking how could you relate the love story of "theblues's Iyengar Man with the social issues we Tb's in TN have, in the matrimonial aspects? As well your general question about not making hue & cry when TB boy marry out of caste/religion/nationality.

Now, let me tell you that I am not gonna get into justifications of any sort. But, would let you know what exactly was the issues that were been discussed on other threads, blaming TB girls marrying out of caste.

When we see the things happening around us in our society in TN/Chennai and find the issues/reasons behind the issues, we remain focused on the folks who all are living / surviving in TN/Chennai and making their choice of living, generally.


There are TB guys and girls working and living in US/UK/Singapore/Japan etc, having their own social circle, fall in love with any person belonging to any caste/religion/nationality and marry them. They are out of perview of the social matrimonial issues in TN/Chennai, that we have highlighted in other threads.

There are many TB guys and Girls who work in a foreign based firms in India/TN/Chennai and in a specific category that they happen to go abroad officially on a deputatation for a year or 6 months. During this time there are few who fall in love with any person belonging to any caste/religion/nationality and marry them. They are as well out of perview of the social matrimonial issues in TN/Chennai, that we have highlighted in other threads.

There are few TB's from elite social category viz. giant corporate proprietors/partners, cine industry folks etc, who all have totally a different life style and choice of living. They are as well out of perview of the social matimonial issues in TN/Chennai, that we have highlighted in other threads.


Considering the above 3 exclusions, the social issues among the folks working/living/settled in TN/Chennai impacts us more, bothers us and makes us figuring out the actual happenings and the reasons.

I would humbly request you to get your mind off gender bias, if you really want to know and understand the issue we TB's have here in TN/Chennai. You, being settled and being a Malaysian citizen may have no need to know, understand and bother the issues in TN/Chennai, but atleast you can understand that we have no imaginary opinions, bias openions, hypocrisy, blind blame game and that we are not against TB girls just because they are girls. Atleast you can attempt to understand and realize that we are not just blaming TB girls for our time pass without any reasons.

Many many members here, in all relevant threads about TB girls marrying NB guys, have expressed their concerns that are all not out of reality.

Let me give you some points again that shows what TB girls prefers/How are they influenced/whats their thinking and attitude and what happens as a result.


1) Many TB girls are liked by NB guys for many obvious reasons and the girls find them running behind, luring, attracting and quiet appealing.


2) Many TB girls believe that TB guys are hypocrite who are not 100% vedic brahmins, but claim themselves as a brahmin while socializing with other caste guys, as the situation demands in their work culture. So, why to give importance only to a TB guy to chose him as her life partner?

3) Many TB girls hardly find TB guys roaming and romancing around them, be attacting and appealing and be a hero.

4) Many TB girls want to get rid of Brahmin Tag for ever. They have no special or obligatory liking towards any Brahminical practices, as they don't have any customary things to do like that of today's TB guys atleast involving in poonal changing ceremony every year (Aavani Avittam), Tharpanam to their departed parents/forefather etc.

5) In many house holds, even in that of middle class families, girls were been educated with professional degrees like BE/MCA/BTech/CA. etc so that they can be married to a professionally settled guys for better life. If they opt to marry a TB guy who did BCom/BA/BBA and alike, then, all their efforts and purposes would become zilch. So, it is better for them to pick one such accomplished guy from any community.

6) Even professionally educated TB guys find difficulty in getting a similar TB girl. Because, among such accomplished girls, few want their future husband to be more highly qualified then themselves. To be earning more than themselves. If the elder sister got her man who is settled in America and she is settled with him in America, the younger sister too wants her parents to look for a Man who is settled in America or in UK or in Australia. If parents fail to offer such a package to their second daughter, the girl would not mid finding any guy from any community on her own, who can settle her with him in US/UK/Australia.

7) TB girls do have a lots of check list that includes much higher salary than herself, much educated than herself, age difference of max 3 or 4 years, well settled guy with no family commitments/responsibilities etc..etc..etc.. If they could not meet their requirements they make their own ways and means to find such a Guy from any community.

We have known many cases where TB girls have eloped with NB guys. As well a few cases of eloping a day before an arranged marriage with a B guy, from the marriage hall. In our neighbourhood/surroundings we do have many TB's and NB's who disscuss some matrimonial issues that we TB's face here in TN/Chennai. Obviously not about the cases of TB girls chosing NB guys, but the long and rigid check lists that TB girls maintain for selecting their partners.

All the folks of any caste and religion in TN/Chennai knows that, getting a TB girl for a TB guy is extremely difficult. Near to no possibilities. Many wonder how come so much TB girls are prepared to remain single at the age of 32/34/35/36/38 when hell lots of TB guys are available who all are reasonablly educated and have descent career and survival?


Recently while browsing a few matrimonal sites, I came accross pages of Girls profile who all are qualified with BE/BTech/CA/ICWAI etc and are between the age group of 30-38 years.., are looking for highly qualified guys, well settled and earning atleast..atleast 8-10 Lakhs a year. If they could not find TB guys meeting their exact requirements, they end up marrying a NB guy and their parents would say that, their daughter was loving a NB guy for long without their knowledge and they are shocked now.


What ever the justifications TB girls have, I am not gonna analyzing and arguing here. Its purly a personal choice of living. I am just highlighting the truth behind TB guy's plight for which TB girls are found to be the reasons in some or the other way.


In a nut shell, dear Renuka, please remember that social issues need to be highlighted as the facts are. Offcourse as what we could see, share the views, information, facts & figures etc. There is nothing about gender bias here.

The ratio of TB Guys and Girls is too poor. TB Girls are lesser in numbers than that of TB guys. From within this lesser no. of TB girls, majority have much higher expectations, go for inter caste marriage, prepared to remain single doesn't matter how old are they growing, unless they could get the best deal/package etc..etc..


Supposing, as a matter of fact, the reasons are other way round, the society gonna point figers towards TB guys.





In light of the above circumstances if that Iyengar Man of 33 years of age could marry a very honestly/truly loving and determined girl from Vietnam, who is prepared to bear some hardship to be appealing to her Man's family (offcourse with no hard feelings), I personally would give him :thumb:


Hope this clarifies....
 
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OP
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renuka

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Renuka,

To be very frank with you, I am really surprised to read your post with a question here, thinking how could you relate the love story of "theblues's Iyengar Man with the social issues we Tb's in TN have, in the matrimonial aspects? As well your general question about not making hue & cry when TB boy marry out of caste/religion/nationality.

Now, let me tell you that I am not gonna get into justifications of any sort. But, would let you know what exactly was the issues that were been discussed on other threads, blaming TB girls marrying out of caste.

When we see the things happening around us in our society in TN/Chennai and find the issues/reasons behind the issues, we remain focused on the folks who all are living / surviving in TN/Chennai and making their choice of living, generally.


There are TB guys and girls working and living in US/UK/Singapore/Japan etc, having their own social circle, fall in love with any person belonging to any caste/religion/nationality and marry them. They are out of perview of the social matrimonial issues in TN/Chennai, that we have highlighted in other threads.

There are many TB guys and Girls who work in a foreign based firms in India/TN/Chennai and in a specific category that they happen to go abroad officially on a deputatation for a year or 6 months. During this time there are few who fall in love with any person belonging to any caste/religion/nationality and marry them. They are as well out of perview of the social matrimonial issues in TN/Chennai, that we have highlighted in other threads.

There are few TB's from elite social category viz. giant corporate proprietors/partners, cine industry folks etc, who all have totally a different life style and choice of living. They are as well out of perview of the social matimonial issues in TN/Chennai, that we have highlighted in other threads.


Considering the above 3 exclusions, the social issues among the folks working/living/settled in TN/Chennai impacts us more, bothers us and makes us figuring out the actual happenings and the reasons.

I would humbly request you to get your mind off gender bias, if you really want to know and understand the issue we TB's have here in TN/Chennai. You, being settled and being a Malaysian citizen may have no need to know, understand and bother the issues in TN/Chennai, but atleast you can understand that we have no imaginary opinions, bias openions, hypocrisy, blind blame game and that we are not against TB girls just because they are girls. Atleast you can attempt to understand and realize that we are not just blaming TB girls for our time pass without any reasons.

Many many members here, in all relevant threads about TB girls marrying NB guys, have expressed their concerns that are all not out of reality.

Let me give you some points again that shows what TB girls prefers/How are they influenced/whats their thinking and attitude and what happens as a result.


1) Many TB girls are liked by NB guys for many obvious reasons and the girls find them running behind, luring, attracting and quiet appealing.


2) Many TB girls believe that TB guys are hypocrite who are not 100% vedic brahmins, but claim themselves as a brahmin while socializing with other caste guys, as the situation demands in their work culture. So, why to give importance only to a TB guy to chose him as her life partner?

3) Many TB girls hardly find TB guys roaming and romancing around them, be attacting and appealing and be a hero.

4) Many TB girls want to get rid of Brahmin Tag for ever. They have no special or obligatory liking towards any Brahminical practices, as they don't have any customary things to do like that of today's TB guys atleast involving in poonal changing ceremony every year (Aavani Avittam), Tharpanam to their departed parents/forefather etc.

5) In many house holds, even in that of middle class families, girls were been educated with professional degrees like BE/MCA/BTech/CA. etc so that they can be married to a professionally settled guys for better life. If they opt to marry a TB guy who did BCom/BA/BBA and alike, then, all their efforts and purposes would become zilch. So, it is better for them to pick one such accomplished guy from any community.

6) Even professionally educated TB guys find difficulty in getting a similar TB girl. Because, among such accomplished girls, few want their future husband to be more highly qualified then themselves. To be earning more than themselves. If the elder sister got her man who is settled in America and she is settled with him in America, the younger sister too wants her parents to look for a Man who is settled in America or in UK or in Australia. If parents fail to offer such a package to their second daughter, the girl would not mid finding any guy from any community on her own, who can settle her with him in US/UK/Australia.

7) TB girls do have a lots of check list that includes much higher salary than herself, much educated than herself, age difference of max 3 or 4 years, well settled guy with no family commitments/responsibilities etc..etc..etc.. If they could not meet their requirements they make their own ways and means to find such a Guy from any community.

We have known many cases where TB girls have eloped with NB guys. As well a few cases of eloping a day before an arranged marriage with a B guy, from the marriage hall. In our neighbourhood/surroundings we do have many TB's and NB's who disscuss some matrimonial issues that we TB's face here in TN/Chennai. Obviously not about the cases of TB girls chosing NB guys, but the long and rigid check lists that TB girls maintain for selecting their partners.

All the folks of any caste and religion in TN/Chennai knows that, getting a TB girl for a TB guy is extremely difficult. Near to no possibilities. Many wonder how come so much TB girls are prepared to remain single at the age of 32/34/35/36/38 when hell lots of TB guys are available who all are reasonablly educated and have descent career and survival?


Recently while browsing a few matrimonal sites, I came accross pages of Girls profile who all are qualified with BE/BTech/CA/ICWAI etc and are between the age group of 30-38 years.., are looking for highly qualified guys, well settled and earning atleast..atleast 8-10 Lakhs a year. If they could not find TB guys meeting their exact requirements, they end up marrying a NB guy and their parents would say that, their daughter was loving a NB guy for long without their knowledge and they are shocked now.


What ever the justifications TB girls have, I am not gonna analyzing and arguing here. Its purly a personal choice of living. I am just highlighting the truth behind TB guy's plight for which TB girls are found to be the reasons in some or the other way.


In a nut shell, dear Renuka, please remember that social issues need to be highlighted as the facts are. Offcourse as what we could see, share the views, information, facts & figures etc. There is nothing about gender bias here.

The ratio of TB Guys and Girls is too poor. TB Girls are lesser in numbers than that of TB guys. From within this lesser no. of TB girls, majority have much higher expectations, go for inter caste marriage, prepared to remain single doesn't matter how old are they growing, unless they could get the best deal/package etc..etc..


Supposing, as a matter of fact, the reasons are other way round, the society gonna point figers towards TB guys.



In light of the above circumstances if that Iyengar Man of 33 years of age could marry a very honestly/truly loving and determined girl (prepared to bear hardship to be appealing to her Man's family), I personally would give him a Thumbs Up.



Hope this clarifies....


Dear Ravi,

I have nothing againts Blues and her partner..didnt you read what I wrote at the begining? telling her that I wish her the best.
I have no ill intention againts anyone..in fact I have no hassle even if a guy wants to marry a guy or a girl marrying a girl.

I have no gender bias at all.
Ravi I am a bit surprised you wrote this to me

You, being settled and being a Malaysian citizen may have no need to know, understand and bother the issues in TN/Chennai
 

ozone

Active member
Dear Ms.Renu,
From such a big post, just one line surprised you?
Come on, give it a couple of more reads :)
 
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OP
renuka

renuka

Well-known member
Dear Ms.Renu,
From such a big post, just one line surprised you?
Come on, give it a couple of more reads :)

Dear Ozone,

All other points have been debated many times in Forum..so that I was not surprised but only that one line was like a bit "corrosive"like how
Chlorofluorocarbon(CFC) erodes Ozone!!! LOL

Anyway its no big deal.
 
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ozone

Active member
You, being settled and being a Malaysian citizen may have no need to know, understand and bother the issues in TN/Chennai
Dear Ravi, You know what? Ms. Renu is 'gearing' up in her own mighty way to poach a TB girl for her son. What better place than TN/Chennai for her need for an unadulterated one. At least for the time being I guess she is quite bothered.
 

sarang

Well-known member
Frightening! I find it difficult to relate with your observations. My experience - in 50 odd weddings amongst friends and relatives in the past 5 years - the bride and the groom were brahmins (intermingling of iyer, iyengar, telugu, kannadiga etc), generally with the approval of both families (perhaps after some initial resistance), qualifications and employment status roughly equivalent, but family background (status, wealth etc.) had mismatch.

Girl following the boy (giving up the job and taking a new job or transfer if possible) was more common (>60%) even if the girl had to take a cut in salary - but the combined income was substantial; boy following the girl to the extent of relocating in a new country or city in india is also there when the girl earns substantially more. They are now more conditioned or forced to adapt to new circumstances.

We are talking of high fliers only. What is happening to people with average qualifications and average salary (20 to 40K). They do form a significant percentage.


Dear Renuka,

The ratio of TB Guys and Girls is too poor. TB Girls are lesser in numbers than that of TB guys. From within this lesser no. of TB girls, majority have much higher expectations, go for inter caste marriage, prepared to remain single doesn't matter how old are they growing, unless they could get the best deal/package etc..etc..

Hope this clarifies....
 
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OP
renuka

renuka

Well-known member

Dear Ravi, You know what? Ms. Renu is 'gearing' up in her own mighty way to poach a TB girl for her son. What better place than TN/Chennai for her need for an unadulterated one. At least for the time being I guess she is quite bothered.


Dear Ozone,

You are one funny guy!!!LOL

I would be very happy if my son brings back a girl to marry.In fact last week I was jokingly telling him.."When you grow up marry a nice girl Ok" and he said "Sure amma..I am not gay"
 
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C RAVI

Well-known member

Dear Ravi, You know what? Ms. Renu is 'gearing' up in her own mighty way to poach a TB girl for her son. What better place than TN/Chennai for her need for an unadulterated one. At least for the time being I guess she is quite bothered.

Thanks for a very hot and spicy information. Much intersting... :)
 
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