Tamil brahmins ans societal Goals.

[Fehu]

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Tamil brahmins and societal Goals.

ee

 

[malgova.mango]

:juggle:Some questions are nagging me for a long time.

Are the Tamil brahmins live and lead their activities scientifically in oneness or sync with the society at large?

Are you just landed from moon or what ?

Literature, art, music, dance , village architecture, temple architecture almost all the aspects of the Tamil culture is influenced by Vedas still to a large extent remain today after the onslaughts of foreign rule for 200 or more years and the neo-self-respect government after 50 or more years.

Do you still want me to explain the role of brahmins in bringing the vedas to practice.


Have brahmins added to the economic value addition and capital formation of the world in totality?

The education breeds culture with wrong education we get all sorts of wrong ideas.

More than economic value we valued love for others, mutual -respect , in Dharma knowledge etc.. Do you know only in Vedic culture there is this concept of feeding and accomodating guests where the guest could be anybody who doesn't belong to your village.
Could you imagine to sell food is scorned and hotels are entirey alien concept till the advent of foreign culture.
We regarded food as godesses "ANNA-LAKSHMI" . We encouraged people to give food and cloths freely. We built choultries and ghats. We regarded everthing is divine. We actively encouraged people to pursue a order of living which develops maturity in people. Entirely different culture.

Have they dominated the caste ladder by siding with poweful because they had the skill of the gab and not hand?

What non-sense - wrong understanding, My grand-mother used to live in only one saree. She is called one saree patti. At that time they even don't know who rules. In village they all lived in peaceful co-existence. Who says we don't have skill of hand. Haven't you see kolams, the culinary art and a whole lot hand made items from our community. My grand-pa can make cups out of leaves, he can spun coir ropes from coconut all by himself he can do whole lot of other things like weaving pandal etc... Many of the Brahmins still endure great poverty and hardships . One just have to visit any famous temples in Tanjore district with no brahmins left in the village. The temple priest endure many hardships to continue with daily rituals for the temple (I would say extra-ordinary)

We don't side with any powerful, . Only they side with us for power for they rightly know without the knowledge and blessing of Vedas power is nothing. We side only with God and Truth.

We didn't seek any power or domination of caste ladder. These are all Western Ideas and this self- respect movements got influenced by them.
Our discipline , intelligence , spirit of love inspired people and most importantly we defined our labour strictly as per VEDIC rules so we didn't pose as a competitor to any other section of society that gave the respect.


Is "adversity's sweet milk is philosophy" in tamil brahmins's life in the context of the society and its well being? - I really don't understand this.

can the thinkers and historical experts advise me on these ideas?

Your views are very negative, There may be transgressions by some brahmins here and there to the VEDIC spirit. But that doesn't mean as a whole we didn't strive for the well-being of others. Seeing all the cultures and civilisation only confirmed my views that we have done much better than others in preserving the Vedic spirit.

Fehu

Additions: Brahmins by genetics are separate entities as any individual human being or groups.They lived by "meme".I mean to some extent by maya instead of nijam. While entire society was pusuing practical goals and existence,Brahmins neglected hard work anf found solace in esoterics ,philosophy and rituals.While kings conducted any function are ceremony brahmins were agents between the king and the titualr deities.Is it a mature activity in the circumstances?

Brahmins also pursued practical goals, which is artha (artha shastra) , kama (kama sutra) and they told the folks how to pursue those in line with the universal order (dharma- neeti shastra) .They also actively pursued knowledge.
The contents of Veda are not in the grasp of ordinary intelligence. It needs extra ordinary intelligence to grasp the result of ritual by intelligence. Kings are nothing but God personification and the rituals are meant for the good of the people. It is of course a mature activity to help king in rituals as brahmins are well versed with VEDAS to effect the ritual. I don't see any conflict.

Further thoughts thrived in the idle brains but no action followed.
They exercised the authority of vedic knowledge(?) if at all they possessed(not all). Amongst the brahmins there was no unity except in bajans and sharing of the alms from the kings.This economic sharing resulted because of physical existence. Please clarify these root questions.

In idle minds, only devils thrive. The CARNATIC music who developed ? Even though it is revealed to three divinities? It is propogated by brahmins only. Without which there is no Illayaraja or MSV music we could enjoy.

 

[Fehu]

ok

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Moderators!

I've unwittingly stirred a ditch, before the stench spreads, Please censor the above postings.
The poster not only mocked the believers "meme" He is also mocking the Vedas, in particular the much revered "Chamakam and ritual part". He has chosen the language of
mocking which will only develop a unhealthy culture of trading insults. Could you intervene.
Thanks
Regards
malgova.mango

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Tamil brahmins and societal goals

Dear Mr.Fehu,

Apropos Mr. Malgoa-mango's reaction to your message posted in this
forum, may I draw your attention to the poor quality of the language
used by you ?

While the word 'meme', as such, does not convey anything bad in meaning,
the use of the phrase " They lived by meme " does cast aspersions on the
community itself. In addition, the phrase " sharing of the alms from the
kings " connotes that the Brahmins pool together to beg. The language is
unparliamentary and is with foul intent. I can quote many more but this is
enough to convey what I want to.

You could have rephrased your queries in a modest way if only you were
really serious in finding answers to the nagging questions !

Please refrain from using any form of uncivilized language in this forum.
Thanks and regards,

 

[Brahmanyan]

Tamil Brahmins and Societal Goala.

Dear Mr.Ranganathan,
I fully endorse your views on usage of dignified language. Some time back while posting in another thread I expressed my apprehensions on the "vituperative elequence" of some members shown in their posts. Our esteemed senior member Mr.KRS and the administrator were not happy about my apprehenstion. Hence I apologised immediately. But unfortunately I find my apprehensions are proving to be true when I read the recent posts of some members.
I have high regard for this Forum which gives freedom of expression fully. But members who use this space should understand that others expect certain amount of self regulation in usage of language from them.
Regards,
Brahmanyan.

 

[Ramaa]

The way anti-Brahminism is propounded by both Brahmins and non-Brahmin posters in this forum from deprecation to outright abuse makes me rethink if I should visit this forum again. Unless there is a policy that not to tolerate anti-Brahminism overriding the so called freedom of speech which is much misused to vitiate the very objective of promoting and echoing of Tamil Brahmin concerns, this website would be boycotted by honest, well meaning and simple Brahmin folks.

Sorry for being blunt. My emotions have been hurt.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Tamil Brahmins and Societal Goals.

I am pained to read the post of "Ramaa", whom I have noticed paticipating with a lot of interest and enthusiasm in many threads. Here we need to do some self analysis and course correction if necessary.
Brahmins are individuals.This trait is inborn because of their natural ability to think individually and discriminate properly. It is indeed good. This inborn nature has some negative impact also. We start a discussion with good intention, but at the end it turns into an arguement. Rather every participant vying with the other to exhibit his/her erudition of the subject by vocifurous language.This creates avoidable friction. I have noticed this tendency in many of the E-Platforms maintained by brahmins. As Mr.Vijisesh had feared in his post this kind of indiscretion in using intemperate language may drive away good Posters from the forum.
We have many young members who are evincing a lot of interest in subjects which are vanishing fast from our culture. Equally a number of well learned elders also participate in the forum with their knowledge acquired over the years of study. I wish little bit of patience and mutual respect to others will certainly strengthen the aims of the Forum very much.
My request to "Ramaa" is not to get emotional and disheartened fast, have patience and proceed further.

Regards,
Brahmanyan.

 

[Ramaa]

Dear Sri Brahmanyan,

It is OK to be individualistic and not join a crowd. But joining the enemies of the community and putting self-side goal and and doing other fifth column work is nothing 'individualistic'. It is blatantly criminal. Where are the moderators and owners who would so swiftly swing into action in defence of the secularists?

I posted this in deference and regard to you. My original view stands. I am not going to be visiting this forum to 'vaarikkattufy' the insults heaped on my community if the forum per se has no view on those who hijack it in the name of freedom.

Regards,

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Sri Brahmanyan,

It is OK to be individualistic and not join a crowd. But joining the enemies of the community and putting self-side goal and and doing other fifth column work is nothing 'individualistic'. It is blatantly criminal. Where are the moderators and owners who would so swiftly swing into action in defence of the secularists?

I posted this in deference and regard to you. My original view stands. I am not going to be visiting this forum to 'vaarikkattufy' the insults heaped on my community if the forum per se has no view on those who hijack it in the name of freedom.

Regards,

Dear Ramaa....

So sorry for me being a catalyst in triggering this post. I understand your emotions. But the fact is, that he is resorting to the language of mocking clearly underpins that he is cornered and he used mocking as a sort of defence. It shows his inner maturity. As he made his livelihood as a Banker, he only understands the language of anna and paisa, a pitiable state indeed.

But what is surprising is the silence of Moderators. May be they haven't seen it yet. Lets wait and see.

Regards

 

[vijisesh]

SOS for Silver Fox !!!

Where are u Boss ????????

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Tamil Brahmins and societal goals

Messrs. Ramaa, Brahmnayan, Malgova and Vijisesh,

Now that Mr.Fehu has not come back with any response, I appeal that
this matter be given a decent burial and the episode forgotten. Let
us carry on with the task ahead !

 

[Fehu]

From Fehu:
I am very sorry that I used the borrowed word from Dawkins ie "MEME" This connotes a thought process and mind -set developed over the years and our way of doing things.Mr.Malgova dismissed all my genuines queries from the bottom of my heart chastened by my thoughts and experience over 30 years as "nonsense".

"meme" means it is a thought package much rooted by self adaptive regulatory mechanism of culture.Any estate of the state or event or even perception can create "memes".I researched on it initially thinking it as a jargon. It connotes the summum bonnum of gene expression and the philosophy of way of life by groups of brahmins and other castes.
Brahminism does not stop with vedas as our Sankaracharya tells frequently.The ways and the parikrama are the means. We listen to Einstein's remark popping up in DW- TV everyday "Don't stop asking questions".Catechism was practised by Adi Sankara and Socretes.
Again to Mr. Ranganathan please read about "Punjavridhhi" practised by Ragavendra. Also there are several instances of acceptance of "gifts" and even " Pidi soru" stories in our scriptures. This activity if denied by you it tells on the necessity of brahmins to develop economic legs in their life which we have done in our lives. I don't mean any servile jenuflexion at the alter of power and pelf ie the king. I think I have clarified enough.I would like healthy future-oriented longterm discussions on rudimentary ideas of brahminism.we should not cling on to one side and say that is the world. This also quoted by me from Vedas.
I wish to understand the thought process of all tamil brahmins and see and proceed on the common ground for further progress of our unity.

 

[Fehu]

Messrs. Ramaa, Brahmnayan, Malgova and Vijisesh,

Now that Mr.Fehu has not come back with any response, I appeal that
this matter be given a decent burial and the episode forgotten. Let
us carry on with the task ahead !

Fehu: I have given you the reply.Please read and respond.

 

[Fehu]

Fehu: I have given you the reply.Please read and respond.

Dear Ramaa....

So sorry for me being a catalyst in triggering this post. I understand your emotions. But the fact is, that he is resorting to the language of mocking clearly underpins that he is cornered and he used mocking as a sort of defence. It shows his inner maturity. As he made his livelihood as a Banker, he only understands the language of anna and paisa, a pitiable state indeed.

But what is surprising is the silence of Moderators. May be they haven't seen it yet. Lets wait and see.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have called the genuine queries as mockeries.Let me know how can you come to a conclusion as "non-sense" the word used by you. I am not cornered and I have started the thread to see views of people like you who don't think deeply.Either call others as non-sense claiming that you are a catalyst.This shows that you are far awy from brahmism and its fundamentals.I don't wrong you for this.I request you read more and experience more and align your comments to the subject without being judgemental. Do you want a community or your way as correct? this you will have to decide. you are casting aspersions for being a banker wich I totally reject and denounce as a peripheral comment of lack of understanding of the subject .This way of brahmin discussions individually using aspersions seeing the profile should not be aqllowed by this forum.please analyse all the postings of Mango and remove them as under advice to me.
Fehu
Fehu

 

[Fehu]

You have called the genuine queries as mockeries.Let me know how can you come to a conclusion as "non-sense" the word used by you. I am not cornered and I have started the thread to see views of people like you who don't think deeply.Either call others as non-sense claiming that you are a catalyst.This shows that you are far awy from brahmism and its fundamentals.I don't wrong you for this.I request you read more and experience more and align your comments to the subject without being judgemental. Do you want a community or your way as correct? this you will have to decide. you are casting aspersions for being a banker wich I totally reject and denounce as a peripheral comment of lack of understanding of the subject .This way of brahmin discussions individually using aspersions seeing the profile should not be aqllowed by this forum.please analyse all the postings of Mango and remove them as under advice to me.
Fehu
Fehu

 

[Fehu]

The way anti-Brahminism is propounded by both Brahmins and non-Brahmin posters in this forum from deprecation to outright abuse makes me rethink if I should visit this forum again. Unless there is a policy that not to tolerate anti-Brahminism overriding the so called freedom of speech which is much misused to vitiate the very objective of promoting and echoing of Tamil Brahmin concerns, this website would be boycotted by honest, well meaning and simple Brahmin folks.

Sorry for being blunt. My emotions have been hurt.

Without emotions please think why Anti-brahminism developed in Tamil Nadu?

Despite high contributions at the civilised and mental level tamil brahmins feel oppressed in tamil Nadu. Why? unless you understand these by looking into the roots we cannot have a clear course for future.
thethread is started to have various views and not brick bats from Malgova.
Think bereft of all emotions as Pujya Sri SRIRavi shankarji says.
Fehu

 

[Fehu]

Dear Sri Brahmanyan,

It is OK to be individualistic and not join a crowd. But joining the enemies of the community and putting self-side goal and and doing other fifth column work is nothing 'individualistic'. It is blatantly criminal. Where are the moderators and owners who would so swiftly swing into action in defence of the secularists?

I posted this in deference and regard to you. My original view stands. I am not going to be visiting this forum to 'vaarikkattufy' the insults heaped on my community if the forum per se has no view on those who hijack it in the name of freedom.

Regards,

Reply from Fehu:You are using uncivilised and unparliamentary language.Are you a police man or a criminal lawyer to call others as ciminals.this tendency of sticking to the past has pulled our legs.Please read my postings under self abnegation ,on ramar palam etc.No body is heaping any insult on anybody.Why tamil brahmins are oppressed in Tamil Nadu? please reply.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Tamil brahmins and societal goals

Dear Mr.Fehu,
Kindly go through my message again. I know the meaning of the word
'meme'. The phrase ' they lived by meme' connotes a totally different thing.
The tenor is nauseating.

How you have woven the words is more important than the words . You have
said that brahmins have no unity except for sharing the alms. This paints the
community in different colour.

I stand by my comments and wish that you start using sophisticated
language, lest a new-comer will form a bad idea of brahmin community.

 

[Fehu]

Thank you Mr. Ranganathan for your reply.
I have not used the words with any inner meaning. I never lose myself in semantics. History may be bitter but cannot be obliterated nor the direction predicted a priori. some of the direction in culture the brahmin community has taken over the years is known to me through various writers and my grand father who was a freedom fighter.first we should acknowledge that we require a grand leadership through unity.
When Sankaracharya was arrested for some alledged crimes the reaction from our community should have been seen by you. Unless community sees a singular direction burying the sub-divisons and the those well-up in the ladder in the society come up with helping hands we will have to see aeons to move further in peace without oppression.
At least Mr.Subramiam swamy has started doing this job in a subtle way.But his political strappings are a burden and a necessity now a days. I also stand by the facts given in my thread. Members like Malgova.Mango simply talk things which have been repudiated several times. He uses offensive word like "non-sense" and see his postings which is trying to pose questions with pre-conceived answers.
Regarding "meme" : everybody lives by memes. Because memes are created internally by uncontrolled external forces and internal perceptions which are bounded by education and way of life. Every bakthi movement is a meme of the creator with a good following of disciples. Vaishnavaites like you must understand that Andal lived by meme of Krishna and everything was Krishna to her.Many shaivaites live by meme of supreme shiva.Madhvas still preserve "punjavridhhi" collecting rice by bahajans in the mornings. but we all know that God is a "supreme force principle".But saints tried their ways by creating "chaithanyam" to their ways.
Please think on these lines of real history and practical activities. how Sri Ramanuja mobilised all castes into Iyengar community by his movement. Nuances are not great. Because they may diffract us from the issues and I see many Iyengars going to Shiva temples and many Iyers going to Perumal temples. but the mix has not happend with proper intent to move forward the community.


Please reply

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Tamil brahmins.......

Mr.Fehu,
Sir, You are again committing a mistake. Do you know for sure that I am
a Vaishnavite?. I am not. But we accept everything as steps to our goal
in life i.e., self-realization.

 

[Fehu]

All the readers please comment on the blog content below
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2007/05/tamil-brahmins-best-second-rate-men-in.html

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Tamil brahmins and societal goals

Dear Sri Fehu,
This article has already been posted in this forum !