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some god neo skeptics
- Thread starter kunjuppu
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N
nachi naga
Guest
can we say love is equal to god feeling.truth is equal to god feeling.bliss is equal to god feeling or simply put god feeling is love,truth,bliss,righteousness,peace,ahimsa :high5:
N
Nara
Guest
NN, instead of saying "god feeling is love,truth,bliss,righteousness,peace,ahimsa", let us say "feeling of love,truth,bliss,righteousness,peace,ahimsa" is, for lack of a better word, godly.
Cheers!
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Kunjs,
I feel you are getting me kind of wrong dear.
I am not Anti Varna or Anti anyone holding on to their caste.Its their personal belief which I have no right to comment on.
Further more many people in my day to day life do consider me some sort of fanatic too cos I don't even celebrate Mother's day cos it has origins from the Bible.
I still hold on to my religion very firmly..so why would I want to comment on anyone holding on to their caste status firmly?
I am equally guilty of bodily identification like anyone else.
When I speak about Neo Spiritualism I am not trying to erase anyones heritage but rather hoping for a combination of variuos Hindus subcultures for a True Hindu Identity.
May be becos I am of mixed caste thats why I dont identify myself with any and prefer to be just a Hindu.
I dont want to give people in Forum here a wrong idea of me that I am anti Brahmin.And its not that becos its a TB forum that I am "behaving" as not to step on toes of anyone.I do write controversial post too which can sometimes can be viewed as not in accordance with Hinduism.
I have been called Hypocrite many times in my life cos people tell me "whats the use you read sanskrit daily..recite all shlokas and study religious text but at times you are so unconventional and even shocking in how your mind works"
Thats just being me Kunjs..I am very unpredictable.
I am not anti anyone be it Brahmin or Non Brahmin cos Eka Atma Sarvabhutaantaraatma..so how can I be anti anyone?
You know Sarang is right..no caste will give up their identity.
And dear Kunjs..you are equally guilty I feel..cos I have seen the Pattar in you many times in forum.LOL.
Love
renu
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renuka
Well-known member
exactly renu! i am with you here. i think this is where what is done in practise in today's version of 'sanatana dharma' differs from the ideals.
these harp on the same ideals, and will even agree with you here. come in practise, and verify if you get to drink in the same tumbler.
sorry dear lady. i have seen it happen in the best of my friends. hence i parted company with them on many many matters, and now i dont hesitate to speak out. most times.
God Bless you dear renu. (spiritually ofcourse)
Dear Kunjs,
Sanathana Dharma is Eternal and not old or new cos its beyond Time.
Along the way may be we misunderstood the ideals..thats why when there is decline in practise of Dharma..the Lord Incarnates from Age to Age.
Our goal is to realize the Atman/Brahman which pervades every being from a single cell unit,to a multicellular human being and right up to a deva(shining one)
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I
Iyer
Guest
You can be even more simpler dear Kunjuppu sir. Simplest is to totally give up idols; give up chants in an obsolete, moribund, extinct language only a handful in the world comprehend. Instead of seeking God, realize the God who seeks you, who comes down, who takes pains to bless you and does not expect anything in return, but just Love for fellow human beings, acts and gestures of goodness to demonstrate that Love, Truthfulness, faithfulness, purity, chastity, simplicity, goodness, virtuous, integrity, honesty, charity. I am not talking of any personal God, or some personification of God in any human form, but of a formless phenomenon, who exists, pervading all space, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, who is that sath, chith, ananda, in whom is the universe and all his creations (contrary to one who is in the universe). This is not from any scripture or text. Any resemblance is coincidental. This is derived from sayings of men who have experienced the falsehood, delusion, illusion, deceptiveness of means to know God, of men who have realized the needlessness of any means, religion, isms, itys, rituals, traditions, sastras, sampradayams, parambariams etc etc which are temporary, which are as you said made for the convenience of men to suit their circumstances, (rather to suit them for the circumstances for men cannot change circumstance).
I am reminded of a song in an old Tamil film Shanthi Nilayam. It goes like this "Kadavul oru naal ulagai kana thaniye vandaraam. Kannil kanda manidarai ellam nalama endraraam". The last stanza in the song is very touching. You may use Youtube to play that song.
I am sorry I am too lethargic to use the link for Tamil font you had sent me in another thread. Besides I am coding this from my works where I am constrained. Trust you would not mind the Roman transliteration.
Regards,
Iyer
DrBarani
0
I don't understand why people fear complexity. What is the need to trivialize (aka "simplify") everything? That sounds very islamic or christian like, those religions want everything presented in simplest phrases (such as "Jesus forgives you!"). If humans wanted to live in only a simple world, there wouldn't be computers, automobiles or even a good razor blade for shaving!
Demanding everything in simple words doesn't equate to any superior state. For that matter languages evolved and got more complex with time. Communication depended on creating many many syllables and phonetic compositions. Imagine living with only two syllables tic and tac. We will be talking in Morse code. Complexity was required for languages to compose music. Complexity gave the method to communicate better between people. Complex number theory came and solved many many problems in science.
Never shy away from anything that appears complex. There may be unresolved problems in complex domain but that isn't a weakness, it is an opportunity.
N
nachi naga
Guest
actually nara anna,there is no lack of better word,its just me who likes god so much,that i connect words to god.god is existing as latent potent energy in all beings,some of us know this and acknowledge it some genuinely dont know about god.to me we all live within gods domain who is timeless ageless everlasting eternal source of life and happiness.and god takes forms as avatars to redeem life forms from time to time.
I
Iyer
Guest
Because God is Simple Dr. Barani. Please do not equate the Mundane with the Metaphysical. Men have achieved absolutely nothing with their pretended complexities. Any professing of complexity is a hypocrisy. By humility you can experience God and when u have experienced God, when you know God in person, when you meet God, you will realize what a ZERO you are, that you do nothing although it appears that you do, but indeed it is God who does in you, and that is the ultimate, absolute, TRUE knowledge and realization. God is humble, infinitely patient with men, while yet He is INFINITE, the absolute TRUTH. Men are arrogant while yet being nothing. That is the ironical difference between God and Man. (And it does not require great knowledge, wisdom, mastery of philosophy or religion, to realize this simplest yet greatest TRUTH).
N
nachi naga
Guest
united we stand divided we fall,is a simple thumb rule for progressive societies.believers of god when united form a formidable force to reckon with,sometimes god believers become clannish and behave in a clannish manner and thats when non-belivers score an incredible break through get their work done,and total confusion progresses.when god believers realise,its the same spirit soul of god which is interpreted in many myriad ways,then true righteous existance lasts,imho.
DrBarani
0
God may or may not be simple, but religious practices (in "mundane world") need not be required to be simplified to realize simplicity in "Metaphysical world". There is a reason why religious practices became complex and that has to do with thousands of years of evolution of theological side of human mind. Declaring simplicity in religion as superior only insults the ancestors who developed complexity out of necessity.
tks
0
One is allowed to believe in anything.
The statement above assumes that 'God' is separate from men which is the thesis of Biblical religions.
To understand Isvara is not simple and requires great effort. To appreciate the nuances of Karma/Dharma model takes a lot of effort.
Our traditions never shied away from complexity and does not teach simplistic things. Isvara is not an experience but anyone is can believe anything they want.
Just doing rituals without understanding or going to a temple to worship may be fine if that gives one a peace of mind. But that is only a start.
Many think that there is a simple prescription to realizing Isvara. With right preparation it is simple but just preaching simplicity without preparation is not helpful.
Dr Barani was not making his comments from an egotistical point of view having seen his other posts.
Our tradition and teaching is not simplistic like biblical religions. His message as I understood was that let us not over simplify and fear complexity.
N
nachi naga
Guest
god is simple but not a simpleton.man is not simple so is woman.both are not simpletons.simpletons are gods as well
Dear Kunjuppu
Even with Gods there are three types of gods
1) Iyer Gods
2) Iyengar Gods
3) சூத்திர (all non brahmins Gods are included here) Gods - கருபண்ண சாமீ, எல்லைஅம்மா, ஐய்யனார் etc etc
I got the reality of it during my early 20s! That has shaped to be what I am now!
As my dearest friend Renu said, 'Some bitter experience in [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important]life[/COLOR][/COLOR] made most of them atheist'. I 100% agree with Renu!
I am not going any further, Kunjuppu! But, why should we experience the bitter part from theists?? Or should I say Hipocrites????
This is not about my dear friend Renu or any other theists here, it is absolutely about my ......... who Kunjuppu knows!!!
Kind regards
Valli
P.S. I am one affected person who is bleeding from the heart and it is NOT directed against any friend in THIS FORUM. Love you all.
Even with Gods there are three types of gods
1) Iyer Gods
2) Iyengar Gods
3) சூத்திர (all non brahmins Gods are included here) Gods - கருபண்ண சாமீ, எல்லைஅம்மா, ஐய்யனார் etc etc
I got the reality of it during my early 20s! That has shaped to be what I am now!
As my dearest friend Renu said, 'Some bitter experience in [COLOR=#DA7911 !important][COLOR=#DA7911 !important]life[/COLOR][/COLOR] made most of them atheist'. I 100% agree with Renu!
I am not going any further, Kunjuppu! But, why should we experience the bitter part from theists?? Or should I say Hipocrites????
This is not about my dear friend Renu or any other theists here, it is absolutely about my ......... who Kunjuppu knows!!!
Kind regards
Valli
P.S. I am one affected person who is bleeding from the heart and it is NOT directed against any friend in THIS FORUM. Love you all.
DrBarani
0
I think I listed it a few weeks ago.... that all Gods except one are themselves NB Gods! Hence there is no reason for NBs to feel upset about Bs...
The only Brahmin God "Brahma" hardly has any temple in the world...
Shiva is undertaker caste, married Parvati, the Fisherman caste
Krishna is Yadav
Murugan, no idea, but married intercaste
Ganesha is interspecies
Rama is Kshatriya (Royal family)
and so on...
Brahmins ARE real the lower caste! No Gods represent them! and then one who does (brahma) gets pounded by everyone else!
{insert long wavelength violin music...}
C RAVI
0
Dear Valli,
Glad to find atleast one post of yours in this thread...
I can well understand your view points out of our life experiences and the fact that you did'nt mean in any way to hurt any one.
-------------------
We humans may have verieties to distinguish different GODs..But the GOD is one with two distinct divine qualities - "AAN SHAKTHI" & "PEN SHAKTHI". The whole "Prabanjam" is revolving around these two forces.
"MALE" & "FEMAL" of any species is the part and parcel of this "Prabanjam", that is wrapped with "GOOD" & "BAD" to uncover the hidden treasure of the absolute truth of this "Prabanjam".
1) Many Theists out of bitter life expereinces and pain, change themselves to be Atheists.
2) Many Theists continue to be Theists, despite undergoing pains and sufferings of life.
3) Many Theists out of wonderful life experiences and happiness, changed themselves to he Atheists, being successful with sheer will power, hard work and intelligence.
4) Many Atheists out of their life time experiences, turning out to be Theists, do happen to exist in this world.
5) Many agnostics out of their life experiences, happen to change themselves as Theists or Atheists.
BUT, during the course of whole life, one can be considered the most ideal person of this "Prabanjam" with his/her human/humanist qualities and with all fine values considering the absolute inclusions of this "Prabanjam, doesn't matter if he/she is a Theist or a Atheist or a Agnostic.
C RAVI
0
Bless you
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bless you, or God bless you, is a common English expression addressed to a person after they sneeze. The origin of the custom and its original purpose is unknown.
An alternative response to sneezing is the German and Yiddish word Gesundheit.
Origins and legends
Several possible origins are commonly given. The practice of blessing a sneeze, dating as far back as at least AD 77, however, is far older than most specific explanations can account for.[SUP][1][/SUP]
One explanation holds that the custom originally began as an actual blessing. Gregory I became Pope in AD 590 as an outbreak of the bubonic plague was reaching Rome. In hopes of fighting off the disease, he ordered unending prayer and parades of chanters through the streets. At the time, sneezing was thought to be an early symptom of the plague. The blessing ("God bless you!") became a common effort to halt the disease.[SUP][2][/SUP]
A variant of the Pope Gregory I story places it with Pope Gregory VII, then tells the common story of "Ring Around the Rosey" being connected to the same plague.[SUP][3][/SUP]
A legend holds that it was believed that the heart stops beating and the phrase "bless you" is meant to ensure the return of life or to encourage your heart to continue beating.[SUP][1][2][4][/SUP]
Another version says that people used to believe that your soul can be thrown from your body when you sneeze,[SUP][1][/SUP] that sneezing otherwise opened your body to invasion by the Devil[SUP][2][/SUP] or evil spirits,[SUP][4][/SUP] or that sneezing was your body's effort to force out an invading evil spirit.[SUP][1][/SUP] Thus, "bless you" or "God bless you" is used as a sort of shield against evil.
Alternatively, it may be possible that the phrase began simply as a response for an event that was not well understood at the time.[SUP][1][/SUP]
Another belief is that people used to see sneezing as a sign that God would answer your prayers[SUP][3][/SUP] or an omen of good fortune or good luck.[SUP][1][/SUP] In this case, "Bless you" would be in recognition of that luck.
Tibetan Buddhists believe a sneeze (like meditation, falling asleep, preparing to die) can provide a moment of "clear consciousness," when people are opened to greater understanding
sangom
0
Smt. Valli,
It may not be a universal rule or law to propound that "'Some bitter experience in life made most of them atheist'". I consider myself as one example, but since that may not be convincing, I am giving the case of one very old man (grandfather of one very senior officer colleague) from Thanjavur. I will say this gentleman had apparently no bitter experience which could have made him an agnostic/atheist. When I saw him he must have been 80+, good health, wife alive and well, children all well-settled or even retired, owning a big house somewhere in Thanjavur. My colleague told me that his grandfather knew Sanskrit, used to be a very orthodox brahmin observing all the rites and rituals meticulously and all that but as he grew older, he (the grandson) found that the old man was slowly becoming less religious and a stage had come when he (grandfather) would not go to the temple at the head of the street, nor would he come to thee "thinnai" when the "utsavar" used to be taken out in procession on some auspicious days. This old man may not be with us now because my meeting him was about 25 years ago, and my colleague has also expired since then.
When my colleague asked him why he has so changed, it seems he replied saying, "If you also devote time and energy to seek God, you will come to this stage." Perhaps "agnosticism" or the truth that God's existence or otherwise is a matter which is beyond the ability of human capability - mental or intellectual, dawns at some stage when one goes on rationally enquiring about God. But those who start with complete trust in God and scriptures and pursue their enquiry through a different path, come to "understand Ishwara" as Shri tks often states.
The following excerpts may be relevant:—
"Sri V.Subramanya Iyer who was the teacher of the senior
monks of Ramakrishna Order, such as Nikhilananda and intellectual philosophers
like Dr S.Radhakrishnan, has reportedly said that Sankara was of the
opinion that common people would not understand the lofty wisdom of Emptiness
and hence Sankara modified his language. Sri Iyer is of the view that the
emptiness of the Buddha and the Atman of Sankara are one and the same. Sri Iyer
is also doubtful of the authorship of Sankara of the Bakthi literature
attributed to him. Sri Iyer is a rationalist down to the earth in his
articulations holding the view that one should go beyond bakthi, yoga and even
mysticism which are only half-way towards the truth."
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N
nachi naga
Guest
dr.barani
lord brahmaa is definitely worshipped in a major way,in a different name and form in adifferent geographical regon.in fact whre he and his consort goddess are worshipped material opulence exists in science and technology.the highest truth is there is one earth and one species of humans and yet we find differences amongst us all the time,geez when do we realise this,oh aquarius age please come soon.
lord brahmaa is definitely worshipped in a major way,in a different name and form in adifferent geographical regon.in fact whre he and his consort goddess are worshipped material opulence exists in science and technology.the highest truth is there is one earth and one species of humans and yet we find differences amongst us all the time,geez when do we realise this,oh aquarius age please come soon.
Basically sneezing is a bad omen because it could be telling that you are under allergy or cold attack. And if your doctor hears the sneeze he will embrace you turning his neck and above 180 degrees reverse.
I
Iyer
Guest
Religion is man's creation and hence it has utterly failed in helping man realize God. Most wars in the world are fought in the name of religion and that would suffice to prove religion breeds war and not peace. Separate God from religion. Men's mind have been programmed over the years that religion is necessary when the Truth is contrary. Religion has only contributed to engulf men from God. Religion is a stumbling block, be it Hinduism or Christianity or whatever. Religion has divided men while God created men to be united, to live in harmony. There was never a necessity to be complex. Complexity is born out of man's arrogance, ignorance, ego, jealousy, envy, pride, conceit, haughtiness, etc. Please read J. Krishnamurthy. I trust saner counsel will prevail. I am not a disciple of JK though.
Iyer
I
Iyer
Guest
Mr TKS,
Honours to you for your erudite wisdom. I am an ordinary human being. You are an intellectual. I am not. But it does not require of man to be intellectual to know God in person. You know the Bible. Fair enough. But how sad and what a pity!!! What I said is reflected by Saint Madhawa Achariar also in his Dhvaita philosophy. I am not a follower of Madhwachariar. Nor am i a practitioner of Dhvaita. But only that some of my view points resemble Dhvaita. When you could discern the resemblance of my views with the Bible, why is it you did not discern the resemblance with Dhvaita. This is the problem with Indians in general and brahmins in particular. You hasten to refer to and quote from foreign and external things but fail to appreciate those that are local and internal.
Please do not deceive yourselves and please do not be deluded in assuming that complexity is a necessity. Complexity is an illusion.
To quote from the Bagwad Gita, "Sarva Dharman parithyajya mamekam saranam vraja. Aham thwa sarva papebyo mokshayikshami. Ma sucha!".
Chinmayananda interprets 'Sarva Dharman parithyajya' as 'shedding your ego'.
Prabhupada, the founder of ISKCON interprets it as 'abandon all religions'.
Both interpretations are acceptable to me.
The Truth is as simple as that.
Iyer.
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