singapore - the ultimate destination?

[kunjuppu]

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venkat,

i thought i will continue our discussion here so as not to side track the swayamvaram thread.

yes, i agree with you that s'pore is always afraid of its malay indonesian neighbours. hence the heavy emphasis on 2 years of national service (NS) for all the male citizens.

i have had extended families residing there since 1980s. the first batch of children are now adults. they have served the NS and almost all the parents appear to be in favour of it.

the result has been better toned kids, organized and self reliant. the army does instill some sense of discipline.

money (or rather saving money) does not appear to be a big deal there. all of my relatives' children have gone for u.k. or u.s. education. money does not seem to matter, and sky appears to be the limit re spending for kid's education.

proximity to india and the general acceptance of indian culture and habits in the work place (sari, churidar etc) is a good reason for those of us, who consider ourselves traditionalists.

it is also a strictly governed society. no spitting on the roads. exception being serangoon road, where apparently the government gave up on paan spitting

no drugs. mandatory death sentence for possession of ganja or cocaine or any such stuff. in fact s'pore, as a percentage of population, hangs more people than any other country in the world. quite a dubiuos record. but a good deterrent.

we are, i guess ideally suited to emigrate there. we like strong honest government. public rewards for hard study. a nice warm weather with open access to tamil culture of all sorts. above all, a society where parents and elders are respected.

so what is missing? why are not more of us moving to singapore, where the immigration policy is still open and tolerant? why more lineups to australia or usa or canada?

 

[RVR]

Sri Kunjuppu,

I fully agree with you that Singapore is one of the best options, our youngsters should consider.

A small little city state which combines probably the best of the western systems & discipline and the eastern culture.

Singapore wants to increase its population from the present 45 lakhs to 65 lakhs by 2025. They encourage migration from other countries. India is a natural choice since we have a long historic relationship.

The name Singapore is an Indian name having Lion as a symbol. President of Singapore is a Tamilian S.Ramanathan. Deputy Prime Mininister and few other ministers are Tamilians. Tamil is the official language along with English, Chinese and Malay.

Sitting in India, I cannot write to the Union Government in Delhi in Tamil and get a reply in Tamil. But in Singapore one can manage with Tamil in all official communications.

One can see Tamil name boards in all official places - Metro stations, Electricity utilities and other services. Metro rail announcements are done in Tamil also.

If you go to Little India, it is like our Ranganathan Street in T.Nagar. You see Saravanabhavan, Murugan Idli and all other Indian restaurents. You can shop using our mother tongue. One can read `Tamil Murasu' and watch Sun TV,Vijay TV and few local tamil channels.

Deepavali and Thaipoosam are holidays for most of the establishments.

Even at mid-night ladies can walk through the streets without any fear.

Singapore has two world class universities, NTU and NUS. Based on 12th marks, students are admitted to NUS without any entrance. If the student agrees to work for two years after graduation, education is totally free.

After graduation, Permanent Resident status if offered. Citizenship will fallow.

Europe's leading business school `Insead' of France has a campus in Singapore. Our own SP Jain management institute has a campus at Singapore.

Singapore has one of the most efficient public transport systems. If we are three, then taxi fare matches public transport. Along with my wife I stayed in Singapore for about a month in Feb/March this year. We enjoyed it to the fullest extent. My wife was thrilled when I got her `kudumi thengai' `karaamani' `yellow thread' etc for Kaaradiayan Nonbu.

One can visit Malaysia by train or car where space is not a problem. Batu caves Murugan or gambling at Genting Highland is individual choice.

Visiting India is just four hours. There are nearly 8 direct flights from Chennai to Singapore daily. Trichy, Coimbatore, Bangalore, Kochi, Trivandrum are connected by direct flights.

I have written only the plus points. There are some minus points which I shall write later.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Dear all,

Grass is always greener on the other side but make sure its not laced with pesticide.

 

[RVR]

Dear all,

Grass is always greener on the other side but make sure its not laced with pesticide.

Ms.Renuka,

I am going to write the minus points also.

There is a proverb in Tamil. Ikkaraiku Akkarai Pachai இக்கறைக்கு அக்கறை பச்சை

Let our youngsters decide what is best for them.

TB community is migrating outside Tamilnadu on continuous basis. If they want to migrate outside India, they have to consider several options. Singapore is just one of the options.

In the recent past migration to USA was maximum. Most of nephews and nieces (almost half a dozen) have migrated to USA. Fortunately they are able to hold on to their jobs and are not affected by the recession.

One of my niece is an Australian Citizen.

One of my son is in Gulf and another is in Singapore.

My daughter wants to migrate to Europe after her graduation.

Let us discuss the pros and cons of all the places so that the younger generation waiting to get out of India consider all the options.

Let our youngsters decide based on their own decisions.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Dear RVR sir,

I just wanted to inject some humour into the situation.
No other intention.
I am a Malaysian citizen, well versed with neighbouring Singapore.
Its not bad a place.

Regards
renuka

 

[RVR]

Dear RVR sir,

I just wanted to inject some humour into the situation.
No other intention.
I am a Malaysian citizen, well versed with neighbouring Singapore.
Its not bad a place.

Regards
renuka

Probably you know much better about Singapore then any of us. Please write more about Singapore highlighting the negative points.

I have not mistaken your views. Please enlighten usl with your experiences about both Malaysia and Singapore.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Well whatever you had mentioned about singapore is mostly true.

Culturally there is not much difference between Malaysia and Singapore.

Singapore was part of Malaysia before and broke away after independence when they asked for a seperate state.

Singapore is called Singapura in Malay, Original name was Temasik being founded by Temagi.
The Story goes that a lion was sighted there( but there are no lions in South East Asia)

Malaysia supplies water to Singapore.

Malaysia and Singapore have strict and similar laws when it comes to drug trafficking.

Singapore is secular but Malaysia is an Islamic country but freedom of religion is given to all.

We have beautiful Hindu temples in Malaysia and were are very "Indian" in our behaviour.

We speak indian languages, eat indian food, learn indian culture etc.

I speak Tamil, read and write Sanskrit despite being born in Malaysia.

There are a few negative points which i cannot write in a public forum.
But overall life is peaceful.

Singapore is a good place but at my personal level i find some Singaporeans rather unfriendly thats all.

renuka

 

[RVR]

There are a few negative points which i cannot write in a public forum.
But overall life is peaceful.

Singapore is a good place but at my personal level i find some Singaporeans rather unfriendly thats all.

renuka

Madam,

Please bring the negative points also to this forum. Offcourse whatever cannot be written, it is ok. But whatever can be brought to this forum, it is always good.

Malaysia looks almost similar to Kerala. Rubber plantations are common both in Kerala and Malaysia.

Malaysia is also well developed and quite cheap as compared to Singapore.

How do you say Singaporeans are unfriendly? Could you elaborate?

All the best

 

[renuka]

Dear RVR,
In Malaysia we have a Internal Security Act where negative comments could land me in trouble and i mean serious trouble.

I would not risk it venturing into negative points.

My personal experinces with Singaporeans are only with patients.

I cant go too detail on that either, it would be unproffesional and i do not want the patient concerned to be reading this.

Malaysia has rubber plantations like kerala.
The weather is rain and sunshine all year round like Singapore.
Malaysian currency is slighty lower than Singapore.
Goods are cheaper in Malaysia and similar brands are found in both places.
Chinese rule the economy in both places and they are quite communal and shrewed bussinessmen.

 

[RVR]

Madam Renuka,

Sorry. If you are covered by Internal Security Act then please don't violate.

I don't want to hear your professional experience with your Singapore clients also.

Can you please inform us about the opportunities available for our youngsters willing to migrate to Malaysia?

What sort of professionals can migrate to Malaysia? Is there any restriction for Indians to migrate?

Whatever information you can part with please do it. If you have any restrictions, please don't do it.

All the best

 

[renuka]

Job oppurtunities are there esp in IT related fields and contract doctors from India are plenty here.
So far no one really migrates here.
Laws are strict for citizenship.
If a malaysian citizen man marries a foreign citizen his wife can eventually get a PR status and maybe after a long time citizenship depending on the country of origin.
But if a malaysian citizen woman marries a foreign citizen husband he can never get citizenship.
Thats the law here.
More than this I am really restricted from commenting.
Hope you understand.
i am sorry if i could not offer you much info

renuka

 

[RVR]

Job oppurtunities are there esp in IT related fields and contract doctors from India are plenty here.
So far no one really migrates here.
Laws are strict for citizenship.
If a malaysian citizen man marries a foreign citizen his wife can eventually get a PR status and maybe after a long time citizenship depending on the country of origin.
But if a malaysian citizen woman marries a foreign citizen husband he can never get citizenship.
Thats the law here.
More than this I am really restricted from commenting.
Hope you understand.
i am sorry if i could not offer you much info

renuka

Ok. Thanks Madam

All the best

 

[pvraman]

I feel Singapore is a nice place for education and their main business is trading. They depend another country for manufacturing. Its a model country for clean roads, 3rd in corruption index (2009) and good. I stayed in Hotels during my brief stay, So, I can not comment on social aspects or cultural comforts. But seems to be a good country.

Cheers

 

[kunjuppu]

so many comments. thank you.

this is one of the few times, that a thread that i opened has so many responses.

my relatives, re NS were very reluctant. first, the idea of serving in a 'foreign' army, especially prime 2 years of their lives, was not looked at with favour.

but after the service, they are glad for it. wonder why the girls are exempt?

two boys in the marriageable age got married. one took his bride from india. he is very high up in one of the biggest financial institutions there.

i was very surprised at his choice of arranged marriage. the main reason for him, is for his wife to understand, that his first 'wife' is his job. he spends close to 80 hours a week at work, and about half the time out of the country. so the expectancy of a normal wife, based on kollywood movies would not work. what he wanted was a committed career person, who could move her career from india to s'pore. hence this long time.

the other, went to england to become a doctor. on return started a practice. very soon he fell in love with his nurse, mixed chinese/malaly background. very poor. the parents very orthodox with regular poojai and punaskarams.

i thought this will be the end of the father. but surprisingly, these folks, turned around, accepted the girl, converted her to hinduism, had a iyer wedding and proud grandparent of a grandson.

sometimes, i think, the true religious ones are wiser and more accommodating to change, than half baked breads like me. i have found more resistance and racism among the 20% brahmins than the 50% ones.

singapore universities have a quota based on the proportion of population. this is to ensure that the chinese do not swamp the universities 100%. the local singaporeans and malays would not get a chance for higher education otherwise.

space in universities are limited compared to the number of students. so many go abroad. singapore has a list of universities which it recognizes. so folks like my two relations, had to be very careful as to which universities they go abroad.

most young TB singaporean students appear to be coming back to singapore for jobs. i have seen only one staying back, and that too in london england. so the country has instilled in its citizens that it is a place where to place your future. good stuff there.

been to kuala lumpur couple of times. appears to be a relaxed antidote to singapore. had relatives work in both places, and all of them unanimously say that malaysia is a better place to work, only because the pace is slower and relaxed.

there is lot of corruption in malaysia. singapore almost none. all of the above, are not truths, but my impressions, and can be corrected by anyone in the public here.

singapore had found that a lot of local chinese especially the smart ones have emigrated, much to its dismay. i think, people, once their basic needs are satisfied, need more in terms of cultural freedom and expression.

in this, both singapore and malaysia have very strict laws, against talking about the government. india is a heaven for those who wish to talk their heart out. we do not watch or care what we say. not so either in m'sia or s'pore.

m'sia, again is blessed with every gift under nature - natural forests, rubber, tin and above all petroleum (petronas the national company is the 9th largest petroleum company in the world). islamic fundamentalism is spreading, but i hope it dies out. too bad. too sad.

one surprising thing in k.l. is that malay girls with head cover, still socialize openly with boys. holding hands and going out in couples is all over. i was surprised. bars are not allowed to serve muslims alcohol. as a result, i was told, there is serious drug problems among the young malays. hence strictly enforced drug laws. not sure if the war is being won.

culturally both countries are tamil friendly. the tamil taught is of the highest calibre and all tamil children (local or from india) ie those who say their mother tongue is tamil, have mandatory language lessons in tamil. hence the high use of tamil continues with each generation.

since most of the hindus who went there originally were not brahmins, tamil hinduism flourishes in both places. in batu caves when i went to the murugan temple, there was classes in thruvasagam. the hall was full, but only older people. no youngsters.

i was dismayed, but not surprised, that the TB keep aloof and have their own brahmana sangham. even here there is segregation between local born TBs (been there generations) and newly immigrated TBs.

incidentally, the newly immigrated TBs are doing very very well. they are high ups in companies, and along with it, in my opinion, have an arrogance and feel superior to the (especially) local TBs. hence this aloofness from all. this has been noticed. these are not liked either by the TBor NB local tamils. such a shame, that we carry our worst charcterestics when we go outside.

thanfully, the u.s. or the canadian culture is overwhelming, and even though TBs here have their own sanghams, the children are free of any sense of stigma applied or received. i guess one should be grateful for such measures.

more later.

thank you.

 

[KRS]

Folks,

Been to Singapore a few times, and at one time stayed there for almost six months for my job, as an American citizen.

Singapore is like New York and San Francisco to me. A nice place to visit and shop, but I would not want to live there. Reasons?

1. The weather.
2. The non integrated population representing three cultures who never inter mingle.
3. Political power is with the chinese.
4. Too artificial and dictatorial.
5. Open prejudice for Tamils.

Just my opinion. By the way, I have never been to Malaysia. I met a 'Bhumipatra' from there and he sucked out any desire for me to visit that country.

Regards,
KRS

 

[RVR]

Following are the minus points which I perceived about Singapore

1.It is a very small place. Total area is around 700 sq.km with practically no scope for expansion. Singapore wants to expand the land area by connecting few more islands but for the required sand for reclamation work has to come from Malaysia or Indonesia. Both the countries doesn't want to help Singapore.

2. Opportunity for entreprenuers are very good. But for salaried employees, it is not that much. Government encourages new ventures and raising funds is very easy if you create local employment. But an employed person if he loses the job, getting another job is very difficult.

3. Global warming has become a reality. If the sea raises by few feet, then a small island like Singapore has no escape place.

4. Poplulation of Singapore is likely to go from 4.5 million at present to approx 6.5 million by 2025. It is one of the overcrowded cities in the world.

5. Singapore has no real democracy but the rulers are very honest and straightforward.

6. Two year compulsory national service may not be liked by our community members.

7, Owning a personal car is a real dream in Singapore. Imported cars attract almost 200% duty, one of the highest in the world. Parking of the cars is another problem and charges are very high for public parking.

8. Saving potential is low but quality of life will be better. Owning a residential flat for non-citizens are little difficult.

Personally I have visited USA and Europe. My choice will be narrowed between Germany and Singapore. Except language, I love Germany very much. Singapore scores over Germany both in climate as well as language. I feel at home at Singapore

All the best

 

[KRS]

Personally I do not care for countries that do not at least practice some minimal egalitarianism. This is just my personal requirement. So settling in Singapore is not for me.

Having said that, I have numerous friends/relatives who love their life there. So, obviously it is a great place to live if it fits one's own priorities. For our folks thinking to migrate, it provides a solid option.

Regards,
KRS

 

[somasekarsg]

Hi

Am based in Singapore for last 10 years and just got my SC recently. The country is good, stable and clean. My family likes it and it is transparent. But negative is a couple where everything is expected almost instantaneoulsy. Prices are high..and there is heavy influx of the chinese..We also have things available on 24 hour basis. Taxis are plenty when you need. But car costs are high.

But some practices in temples are to be frowned upon where as a TB, you know it is wrong. Especially those conducted by the so called Chief Priest in Singapore Balachander. Flexiblility is a common word for him. I have been a witness to his way of stopping a religious service mid way just to facilitate the rich. Treating the diety with disrespect. Wheareas, the priest in Perumal temple is fair with his process and takes care of the rich without compromise of the religious process. We can find alot of TB in Singapore either in Perumal or Sivan temples. The sad thing for TB in Singapore are most of the priests in other small temples are brought in by Balachander. I feel shy as a TB to even call him Sivachariyar as he has protrayed badly of a real TB.

End of the day - Life in Singapore is good for someone is who is seeking greener pastures..especially with family in tow.

 

[Staunch_Iyengar]

Singapore is definately not the best place for Tamil Brahmins or Brahmins in general.

Infact I would go as far as to say, any predominantly Indian region outside India should not be welcome.

I would recommend Singapore for anyone who is sure they can enter the elite secondary schools and continue untill they finish their degrees. And stay only when they have a good job offer.

 

[drb]

I don't wish to digress. but..
my 2 cents

s'pore or whereever the place is - we have to try to make it our home. Unfortunately with the current policies by Indian govt (esp tamil govt), we have no place in India anymore. I don't think situation is going to change.