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Sanatana Dharma and its digestion - Part 1

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These are my rants (my understanding) on Sanatana Dharma and how it is slowly being digested in a western framework of a ‘religion’ without many of us realizing it. It is going to run into many parts.

What is Sanatana Dharma

Sanatana dharma simply means the 'dharma from the ancient times'. How much ancient..? I interpret it as from the origins of the Universe. Dharma are the fixed laws. Sanatana dharma means the laws that come to us from ancient times or origins of Universe.

I translate it as laws of living (dharma) aligned to natural laws that come from the origins of Universe (sanatana).

How is Santana dharma different from a religion..?

A religion by definition is ‘messenger’ or ‘messiah’ based. It starts with a belief or faith on the words of a messenger or messiah. All the knowledge of a religion comes from the faith that people develop on the messenger or messiah. Invariably the messenger leaves his/her knowledge or his/her understanding to a set of people which gets collected in books or institutions. Hence knowledge evolution in a religion is tough.

The words of messengers may be apt for a certain time period, but may not work later times. It becomes tough for ‘religions’ to evolve.

Sanatana dharma does not have any messenger or messiah. It’s knowledge is distributed among all its people. Everyone who belongs to Sanatana dharma has his/her own unique understanding of the dharma and contributes to its overall knowledge evolution. The knowledge evolution in sanatana dharma is natural.

Religions have starting points and have some specific do’s and don’ts provided by messenger. Sanatana dharma has no starting point. It’s do’s and don’ts keep changing with time, as knowledge evolves and environments evolve.

But then what is in Sanatana Dharma..?

In essence, Sanatana dharma is Vedas and Varna-Asrama Dharma.

Vedas are 'revelations' or Sruti. No messenger wrote it or had ownership on it. They were heard, memorized and passed on generations after generations with same intonations as much as possible.

Events in the Vedic literature became the stories of Puranas. Several vedic events get mapped to puranic stories. Several puranic stories do not have corresponding events in the currently available vedic literature. This tells us that what we are currently retaining is a smaller part of the original vedic revelations.

Researching the Vedas, understanding it, devising scientific models based on it (Carvaka, Vijnana, saMkhya), interpreting it (Upanishads, Puranas), developing philosophical models around it (Dvaita, Advaita, Visishta-advaita), passing the vedas to subsequent generations are at the core of Sanatana Dharma.

From these vedic revelations comes the understanding of laws of living. The laws of living in Sanatana dharma are the Varna Dharma and Asrama Dharma.

Contrary to popular perception Varna dharma are not 'Jati'. Varna Dharma says there are three basic professional groups aligned to three gunas.

Varna dharma - Professional groups

Brahamanas or Knowledge providers are aligned to Sattva. Sattva guna is knowledge based, evolutionary, interactive learning and changing. Examples of Knowledge providers are scientists, researchers, teachers, entrepreneurs etc..

Kshatriyas or Service providers are aligned to Rajas. Rajas guna is action based, motion and control and hence skilled. Examples of Service providers are Soldiers, politicians, Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Cooks etc who use the knowledge offered by Brahmanas, combine it with their skill-sets and offer it as services to society.

Vaizyas or Goods providers are aligned to Tamas. Tamas is opposite of Sattva. Hence it changes slowly or constancy is its hall-mark. Tamas is also opposite of Rajas and hence it is in-action and submission. Examples of Goods providers are farmers, businessman, traders etc.. They use the knowledge of Brahmanas, services of Kshatriyas, evolve slowly in their technologies compared to Brahmanas and Kshatriyas and provide the goods required for society.

A Varna dharma society has to have a proper balance of these people. Then it’s an ideal society. All these people go through a system of ‘dvija’ (twice-born).

A person becomes twice-born (dvija) after formal education that he learns from an external ‘guru’. It is because that education helps him to interact with an external world outside his/her close family, make him/her learn professional skill-sets needed to contribute to society and becomes a totally different person than what he/she was originally. It also teaches him/her methods of continuous learning. This is the school/college education of modern times.

Brahmanas, Kshatriyas and Vaizyas cannot remain in their professional groups without going through ‘dvija’ or formal education.

But often we have a class of people who are thrown out of the economic cycle of Brahmana-Kshatriya-Vaizya. Sometimes they are thrown out of the economic cycle, because that they have not gone through the ‘dvija’ system (formal schooling) to acquire the right skill-set or knowledge needed to contribute to society. Another reason could be that their skill-sets or knowledge becomes not so useful to society or it becomes abundant in society that the value of it becomes too low.
These people are treated as ‘labor’ or ‘bio-mass’ of the society. They are called Zudras.

The zudras are aligned with nir-guna. Neither they are evolutionary or knowledge based, nor they can offer services, nor they can offer goods. They are useful to society only by their physical labor.

There is only a thin line between Kshatriyas and Zudras. When the services offered are in demand, it is Kshatriya. When services offered in abundance, it is Zudra.

These professional groupings are based on the tri-guna nature that exists in Universe from micro-cosm to macro-cosm. Hence these groupings are applicable at all times, irrespective of technological developments.

The cycle of four Yugas

Satya Yuga

In the Satya or ‘Krita’ Yuga, the yuga of creation, all four professional groups have equal importance. The society is to said run on all ‘four legs’. All the legs of society undergo formal education and learning (dvija).

Brahmanas or knowledge providers, glue the society developing institutions and systems that help run a society. The society runs by these institutions and structures. Kshatriyas or service providers administer the society through these established institutions. Vaizyas provide their goods through these established institutions. Zudras provide their labor through these institutions. There are very less zudras and they are more Kshatriyas (service providers). There is an order and peace in the society. Hence it is called Satya or 'Krita' Yuga.

Treta Yuga

But then this does not last long. Knowledge and technological evolution far outstrips the structures that exist to administer a society, which throws up lot of challenges. Administrative services become more powerful over a period of time. That leads to Treta Yuga.

Here the leadership of society is transferred to Kshatriyas or Service providers, in particular the administrative service providers. They become powerful as the technological evolution throws up complex challenges that cannot be solved by existing systems and human discretion is needed in day to day administration.

When service providers (Soldiers or politicians) run the society, institutions devised by Brahmanas or Knowledge providers lose some of their value. It finally depends on the ruler to listen to Brahmanas. The focus moves away from institutions to 'good' rulers.

In this society zudras get valued only for doing the physical labor for Kshatriyas (to be soldiers, guards etc). Education or Dvija system no longer is needed for zudras. The society is said to run on three legs of Service providers (kshatriyas), Goods providers (vaizyas) and Labor (Zudras). Hence it is called Treta yuga.

Dvapara Yuga

But that also does not last long. As society stabilizes and populations explode, goods become important for survival of society. This leads to ‘dva-apara’ Yuga. The leadership of society goes to Vaizyas or Goods providers.

In a stable secure society, Administrative services are taken for granted. It is goods providers that have all the power. Hence Vaizyas (businessmen, traders, farmers) lead the society. The society is said to run on two legs of Vaishyas and Zudras. Education gets limited only to Brahmanas and Kshatriyas in this society, as Zudras become the physical labor for Vaishyas. Hence the Yuga is called ‘dva-apara’ yuga (two off).

Kali Yuga

But that also does not last long. As the populations explode, lot of people get out of the economic cycle increasing the number of zudras or laborers. Society gets filled with cheap labor, people who are treated as just some bio-mass by the economic cycles. This leads to Kali Yuga.

In Kali Yuga, people who are thrown out of the economic cycle, the zudras, become majority. They try to run the society through ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’ or through democratic methods, where their voices are heard. The society is said to run on 'one' leg. Kali means the only one left out or 'one' in a dice play.

But the Kali Yuga is unstable. An economic model in which cheap and slave labor dominates or huge population is forced out of economic cycles does no good. That model leads to destruction of society only. Part of society even gets destroyed in the strifes that occur in the society.

Re-birth of Satya Yuga

Society searches for answers. That’s when Brahmanas or Knowledge providers make a come back. The Scientists (Muni), Researchers (Rsi), Teachers (Acharya), solve the challenges of an unstable society through technology evolution, through better institutions and systems. They pull the society back from the complete brink of devastation and destruction and makes it to be re-born.

With technology, with education, with knowledge, with systems and institutions, problems of a zudra dominated society is solved. Better institutions get devised. The dvija system of educating everyone makes a come back. Balance of all professional groups is established as society understands the power of knowledge.

When population grows to solve the challenges of food, water and individual human desires, families go nuclear and then individualistic. As people become more individualistic population control automatically sets in. With Single or zero child families, over a period, population automatically comes down.

All these lead to a Satya Yuga being born again wherein all four legs of the society becomes equal and balanced. Knowledge becomes the driver of the society.

As one can see it is a cycle. Satya Yuga will lead to Treta again, as with more knowledge, more complex administrations emerge, with administrative services being in demand once again. This leads to Treta and then dvapara and then kali yuga again.

Varna dharma - Natural and Eternal

Thus Varna dharma explains us what is happening naturally. It depends on us human beings to evolve a society with less zudras, monitor where they are and act accordingly.

As ‘gravity’ cannot be abandoned, varna dharma cannot be abandoned. It is natural and eternal for the life of the Universe.

What we need to do is to understand where our society is at this point of time and devise appropriate structures and solutions to handle the issues.

Next: Asrama Dharma

-TBT
 
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Varna is contained in Veda and therefore need not be separated from it. That Veda is Wisdom which is proven over time is what separates Sanatana Dharma from the dogmatic belief systems which are labeled as a religion. I wish more people understood that rather than just identifying themselves under the pejorative term "Hindu".
 
Its almost impossible to find any text that uses the word Sanatana Dharma.

Mostly just talk about Dharma for a specific situation and write it as Dharma Sanatanah..referring that this specific Dharma is Eternal.


Srimad Bhagavatam uses Sanatana Dharma but used again in a very specific context.

Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.18:

tvattaḥ sanātano dharmo
 rakṣyate tanubhis tava
dharmasya paramo guhyo
 nirvikāro bhavān mataḥ



You are the source of the eternal occupation of all living entities, and by Your multi-manifestations of Personalities of Godhead, You have always protected religion. You are the supreme objective of religious principles, and in our opinion You are inexhaustible and unchangeable eternally.


This being Srimad Bhagavatam is just from one perspective..but is there a Vedic source for the usage of Sanatana Dharma?
A mention of an all encompassing Sanatana Dharma from a broader perspective is usually not really found.

BTW Vedas being Pramanyam or Varna Ashrama (no matter how politically correct) is not a pre requisite for Dharma.
Astika philosophies didnt touch on these two at all yet Dharma was stressed upon.


Can anyone find the usage of the word Sanatana Dharma in Vedas?

If so..kindly state the verse...its better we go evidence based instead of having a neuronal voltage flow on High Definition.
 
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Varna is contained in Veda and therefore need not be separated from it. That Veda is Wisdom which is proven over time is what separates Sanatana Dharma from the dogmatic belief systems which are labeled as a religion. I wish more people understood that rather than just identifying themselves under the pejorative term "Hindu".

Can Shaivaism, Vaishnavaism,Shaktaism,ISCKOnism be considered dogmatic belief system?
 
Varna is contained in Veda and therefore need not be separated from it. That Veda is Wisdom which is proven over time is what separates Sanatana Dharma from the dogmatic belief systems which are labeled as a religion. I wish more people understood that rather than just identifying themselves under the pejorative term "Hindu".

I did not separate Varna from Vedic texts. I said the laws of living (like Varna and Asrama) are 'natural' laws that originate from the origins of Universe. My understand and translations generally talk about Vedas as cosmic science (more aligned to current standard model expanded a bit) that describe the events at the origins of Universe. Hence we can say we derive all the knowledge from the original vedic texts we 'heard' (all of which are not there now)..

-TBT

-TBT
 
Its almost impossible to find any text that uses the word Sanatana Dharma.

Mostly just talk about Dharma for a specific situation and write it as Dharma Sanatanah..referring that this specific Dharma is Eternal.


Srimad Bhagavatam uses Sanatana Dharma but used again in a very specific context.

Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.18:

tvattaḥ sanātano dharmo
 rakṣyate tanubhis tava
dharmasya paramo guhyo
 nirvikāro bhavān mataḥ



You are the source of the eternal occupation of all living entities, and by Your multi-manifestations of Personalities of Godhead, You have always protected religion. You are the supreme objective of religious principles, and in our opinion You are inexhaustible and unchangeable eternally.


This being Srimad Bhagavatam is just from one perspective..but is there a Vedic source for the usage of Sanatana Dharma?
A mention of an all encompassing Sanatana Dharma from a broader perspective is usually not really found.

BTW Vedas being Pramanyam or Varna Ashrama (no matter how politically correct) is not a pre requisite for Dharma.
Astika philosophies didnt touch on these two at all yet Dharma was stressed upon.


Can anyone find the usage of the word Sanatana Dharma in Vedas?

If so..kindly state the verse...its better we go evidence based instead of having a neuronal voltage flow on High Definition.

That we are looking for a word like 'Sanatana dharma' (which is used often in a 'social context') in Vedas says how much we are 'immersed' in a 'religious' framework. As I wrote Sanatana dharma in itself indicates a way of living aligned to (natural) laws that come from origins of Universe (or ancient times).

Vedic texts (in my view) are not 'social' or 'historical' texts as we have been taught unlike Old Testament, New Testament or Quran (with no disrespect to them). In my understanding they are 'science' that could not be understood and they were 'heard'.

Puranas interpreted 'vedic cosmic events' as historical events and elements involved in it as 'personalities'. Samkhya tried to define abstract models around these events which could be applied from microcosm to macrocosm. Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhva et al tried to view them in a philosophical framework.

Griffith, Max-mueller et al interpreted them as 'songs' of un-cultured 'nomads'. In particular this translation makes us think that Vedas are some social texts and we look for word 'Sanatana dharma' in them in a social context.

I translate them as science. To me searching for sanatana dharma in vedas is like searching for Chemical reactions in a book on quantum physics.

**

As one can see, sages are telling Narayana "tvattaḥ sanātano dharmo rakṣyate" - 'From you Sanatana dharma is protected'. But what is this Sanatana dharma that they are refering to..? (why did Prabhupada interpret it as eternal occupations or varna dharma in this context)..?

It is because just before that, they were telling Narayana that Narayana is the 'Brahmanyasya Param daivam' (which I translate as evolution's (brahmanya is evolution) primary guardian), "brahmano kila te prabho" (verily the prabhu of Brahamanas/knowledge providers/seekers), vipranam deva devanam (the deva-deva of the Self-inspired/vipra), bhagavan atma daivatam (soul-guardian is the bhagavan).

In that context they say from narayana the laws of the Universe (sanatana dharma) is protected (or say source). Brahmanyam or expannsion or Evolution is about increasing knowledge or information in the Universe. You can call it as 'entropy' or 'dis-order' or 'more information'. The dharma here is Universe will keep expanding, information (in a way information is dis-order and also entropy) will be increasing. The protector of this dharma according to them is Narayana.

Brahmanas or Knowledge providers contribute to this brhamanyam or expansion or evolution or increasing knowledge. The lord of such brahmanas is Lord Narayana. That also says how Varna dharma comes down from the ancient laws and hence is part of a Sanatana dharma.

Since PrabhupAda saw that Sages were talking about Brahmanas, he translated sanatana dharma in this specific case as eternal occupations (or varna dharma).

Otherwise Santana dharma is not a religion or cult originated by a messenger. It is an observation or discovery about ourselves.


-TBT
 
Can Shaivaism, Vaishnavaism,Shaktaism,ISCKOnism be considered dogmatic belief system?


Shaiva, Vaishnava, Shakta, Ganapatya et al are called 'mArga'. They are paths. They are not 'ism'. The 'ism' is an ideology with a specific founder and specific set of beliefs. All these do not have a 'founder'. But they did have some beliefs which diverged, converged over a period of time. That's how smArthas were born. They will keep changing forever.

ISKCON is a cult. It is more closer to an 'ism' (because it originated in recent times) with a founder and specific set of beliefs and tells what to do and what not to do.. I will leave it to followers of ISKCON to talk about if they are a dogmatic belief. In my view, they are (like other religions of the world), with no disrespect to any religions or ISKCON.


-TBT
 
That we are looking for a word like 'Sanatana dharma' (which is used often in a 'social context') in Vedas says how much we are 'immersed' in a 'religious' framework. As I wrote Sanatana dharma in itself indicates a way of living aligned to (natural) laws that come from origins of Universe (or ancient times).

Vedic texts (in my view) are not 'social' or 'historical' texts as we have been taught unlike Old Testament, New Testament or Quran (with no disrespect to them). In my understanding they are 'science' that could not be understood and they were 'heard'.

Puranas interpreted 'vedic cosmic events' as historical events and elements involved in it as 'personalities'. Samkhya tried to define abstract models around these events which could be applied from microcosm to macrocosm. Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhva et al tried to view them in a philosophical framework.

Griffith, Max-mueller et al interpreted them as 'songs' of un-cultured 'nomads'. In particular this translation makes us think that Vedas are some social texts and we look for word 'Sanatana dharma' in them in a social context.

I translate them as science. To me searching for sanatana dharma in vedas is like searching for Chemical reactions in a book on quantum physics.

**

As one can see, sages are telling Narayana "tvattaḥ sanātano dharmo rakṣyate" - 'From you Sanatana dharma is protected'. But what is this Sanatana dharma that they are refering to..? (why did Prabhupada interpret it as eternal occupations or varna dharma in this context)..?

It is because just before that, they were telling Narayana that Narayana is the 'Brahmanyasya Param daivam' (which I translate as evolution's (brahmanya is evolution) primary guardian), "brahmano kila te prabho" (verily the prabhu of Brahamanas/knowledge providers/seekers), vipranam deva devanam (the deva-deva of the Self-inspired/vipra), bhagavan atma daivatam (soul-guardian is the bhagavan).

In that context they say from narayana the laws of the Universe (sanatana dharma) is protected (or say source). Brahmanyam or expannsion or Evolution is about increasing knowledge or information in the Universe. You can call it as 'entropy' or 'dis-order' or 'more information'. The dharma here is Universe will keep expanding, information (in a way information is dis-order and also entropy) will be increasing. The protector of this dharma according to them is Narayana.

Brahmanas or Knowledge providers contribute to this brhamanyam or expansion or evolution or increasing knowledge. The lord of such brahmanas is Lord Narayana. That also says how Varna dharma comes down from the ancient laws and hence is part of a Sanatana dharma.

Since PrabhupAda saw that Sages were talking about Brahmanas, he translated sanatana dharma in this specific case as eternal occupations (or varna dharma).

Otherwise Santana dharma is not a religion or cult originated by a messenger. It is an observation or discovery about ourselves.


-TBT

I do not see an answer in your reply.

Sanatana is just an Adjective.

Its finally all about Dharma.

Btw any discussion does not have to bring in messiahs or other religions.

A discussion of Dharma should stand on its own Four Feet..otherwise we are no different from preachers who compare and contrast with other religions just to prove a point.

Debates of any kind in the past be it between Advaita and Dvaita stayed within context.

Only when there is no strong hold one needs to compare and contrast with other religions like what Zakir Naik does..this is termed Propaganda.
 
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I do not see an answer in your reply.

Sanatana is just an Adjective.

Its finally all about Dharma.

Btw any discussion does not have to bring in messiahs or other religions.

A discussion of Dharma should stand on its own Four Feet..otherwise we are no different from preachers who compare and contrast with other religions just to prove a point.

Debates of any kind in the past be it between Advaita and Dvaita stayed within context.

Only when there is no strong hold one needs to compare and contrast with other religions like what Zakir Naik does..this is termed Propaganda.

I am not sure what answer you are looking for. My mis-understanding probably.

You asked 'Where is sanatana dharma' mentioned in 'vedas'. I said 'it is like looking for chemical reactions in quantum physics' book.

You said 'varna dharma' is not part of Sanatana dharma. I said 'that's not true. The sloka you quoted itself indicates it in a way. Varna is dharma and hence part of sanatana dharma'.

Yes, sanatana is adjective. Dharma are universal laws and Varna is part of them was my view here.

-TBT
 
I am not sure what answer you are looking for. My mis-understanding probably.

You asked 'Where is sanatana dharma' mentioned in 'vedas'. I said 'it is like looking for chemical reactions in quantum physics' book.

You said 'varna dharma' is not part of Sanatana dharma. I said 'that's not true. The sloka you quoted itself indicates it in a way. Varna is dharma and hence part of sanatana dharma'.

Yes, sanatana is adjective. Dharma are universal laws and Varna is part of them was my view here.

-TBT

I said Varna Ashrama and Vedas is not a pre requisite for Dharma cos Nastika philosophies stood without it.
 
I said Varna Ashrama and Vedas is not a pre requisite for Dharma cos Nastika philosophies stood without it.

That is not true.

In fact saMkhya is often cited as 'nAstika', but its guna framework is what is used to explain the Varna dharma as I explained it here.

-TBT
 
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