Saligrama stone

[Brahmanyan]

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Recently, my brother-in-law who had been to Muktinath and a few religious places in Nepal, presented us a "Saligrama" stone or "Saligram shila" picked from Gandaki river there. He explained about its religious significance of this stone. I was more curious about the origin of this stone like article and browsed the internet for more scientific information about the same, which I wish to share here.

First "Saligrama" is not a stone but fossilized remains of creatures from ocean called 'ammonites' which were extinct 65 millions of years ago, around the same time 'dinosaurs' became extinct. Which the geologists call 'Cretaceous era'. During this period, they believe there was a vast area of ocean existed, separating two huge land masses, both of which shifted towards each other and collided, resulting in the formation of mighty Himalayan chain of mountains. The entire marine life existed in the ocean was destroyed and got buried under the land mass and became fossilized. Geologically Himalayas are the youngest mountain ranges in the world. The fact that the Himalayas was underneath an ocean is evident from the findings of fossils and sediments. The sedimentary rocks resembling sea beds are found in the foot hills of the mountain range, which are not covered by snow.

Ammonites belong to invertebrate group of marine animals related to sub class Ammonoidea of the class Cephalopoda, which are closely related to living Coleoids (octopuses, squid and cuttlefish) than to shelled 'nautiloids'.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[prasad1]

Shaligram

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Source : Kandapuraanam - Visalakshi Ramani

2#32c ஹரியும், ஹரனும்.

லோகத்தை மயக்கிய திருமாலின் அழகிய
மோகினி அவதாரத்தைக் காண விழைந்த,

ஈசனுக்குக் காட்சி தந்தார் திருமால்
ஆசையை வளர்க்கும் மோகினியாக.

காம வயப் பட்ட சிவன் கையைப் பற்ற,
காம விகாரத்தை பெருக்க மோகினி ஓட,

நாவலந்தீவினில் தேவனும், தேவியும்
சால மரத்தின் கீழ் கூடி ஒன்றாயினர்.

ஒன்றி அவர்கள் கூடிய காலத்தில்
கண்டகியாயிற்று கான்றுமிழ்ந்த நீர்.

பொன் வண்ண வஜ்ரதந்திப் புழுக்கள்
தோன்றின ஆழிக்குறியுடன் நதியில்.

கூடுகளைச் செய்தன ஆற்று மண்ணால்.
கூடுகளில் வாழ்ந்து பின்னர் மடிந்தன.

கூடுகளிலும் தோன்றின ஆழிக் குறிகள்.
கூடுகள் ஒதுங்கின ஆற்றின் கரையில்.

ஆழிக் குறிகளை இனம் கண்டு பிரித்து
ஆழியோனை, ஈசனை வழிபடலாயினர்.

வாழ்க வளமுடன், விசாலாக்ஷி ரமணி.

 

[apsarathy]

Saligramam is very precious for Vaishnavites. It is kept separately in a wooden box and periodical aradhanai is performed. Every Saligramam is considered as an incarnation of a devata like Rama, Krishna, Santanakrishna, Ananthapadmanabha, Narasimha and others. What incarnation of God is a particular Saligramam is determined by an expert Acharya. Nitya poojai for Saligramam with 'Acharam' is known to bring peace and happiness in the household. In the olden days, when a girl gets married, one or two Saligramams are also given as dowry so that the girl and her husband also perform pooja etc. to bring prosperity to their homes. As the process of taking out Saligramams from the Gandaki river has been going on for very many years, I understand that Saligramams are no longer available in that river.What is available in the market, I understand, is not original. May be still some original stuff is available but one should be careful if one buys them from market.

 

[prasad1]

I understand that Saligramams are no longer available in that river.What is available in the market, I understand, is not original.


It is precious, as it is rare. So the commercial value will be decided by the market as precious stones, or minerals. So the collectors will have hay day.

Will the value of Vishnu go up or down, does it matter to Vishnu, or to the Vishnu bhaktas (as opposed to Shaligram bhaktas).

In Kabir Das words:

Pathar Puje Hari Mile, To Main Pujun Girirai,
Sabse to Chakki Bhalim Pees Pees ke Khay


Meaning- Kabir says, If god could have been found by worshiping the idols made of stone, then Kabir would worship the greatest mountain. No stone can have god bigger than that. He reiterates that god cannot be found in the stone idols, the simple chakki (traditional Indian wheat grinder having two round stones rotated and the wheat dropped from above gets grinded between two stones) is more divine at least it bears pain to feed the humanity.

 

[tbs]

View attachment 2768Recently, my brother-in-law who had been to Muktinath and a few religious places in Nepal, presented us a "Saligrama" stone or "Saligram shila" picked from Gandaki river there. He explained about its religious significance of this stone. I was more curious about the origin of this stone like article and browsed the internet for more scientific information about the same, which I wish to share here.

First "Saligrama" is not a stone but fossilized remains of creatures from ocean called 'ammonites' which were extinct 65 millions of years ago, around the same time 'dinosaurs' became extinct. Which the geologists call 'Cretaceous era'. During this period, they believe there was a vast area of ocean existed, separating two huge land masses, both of which shifted towards each other and collided, resulting in the formation of mighty Himalayan chain of mountains. The entire marine life existed in the ocean was destroyed and got buried under the land mass and became fossilized. Geologically Himalayas are the youngest mountain ranges in the world. The fact that the Himalayas was underneath an ocean is evident from the findings of fossils and sediments. The sedimentary rocks resembling sea beds are found in the foot hills of the mountain range, which are not covered by snow.

Ammonites belong to invertebrate group of marine animals related to sub class Ammonoidea of the class Cephalopoda, which are closely related to living Coleoids (octopuses, squid and cuttlefish) than to shelled 'nautiloids'.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

hi
i am doing saligrama pooja more than 8 yrs regularly.....i got it fromnepal through my family close friend....even i carry in flight....

whenever i visit india...i used to carry from US to india .....sometimes i had tough time to do puja....still i try

to do as much as possible.....

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

Salagrama pooja has to be performed with niyamam and nishtai.These days when people reside in one bedroom or two bedroom flats we can't ensure madi and achaaram especially when there are small kids and ladies having their monthly cycles.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

In that case it is better to hand them over in the temples where they will be duly worshiped.

 

[Asirvadam]

Saligramam is very precious for Vaishnavites. It is kept separately in a wooden box and periodical aradhanai is performed. Every Saligramam is considered as an incarnation of a devata like Rama, Krishna, Santanakrishna, Ananthapadmanabha, Narasimha and others. What incarnation of God is a particular Saligramam is determined by an expert Acharya. Nitya poojai for Saligramam with 'Acharam' is known to bring peace and happiness in the household. In the olden days, when a girl gets married, one or two Saligramams are also given as dowry so that the girl and her husband also perform pooja etc. to bring prosperity to their homes. As the process of taking out Saligramams from the Gandaki river has been going on for very many years, I understand that Saligramams are no longer available in that river.What is available in the market, I understand, is not original. May be still some original stuff is available but one should be careful if one buys them from market.

My Iyengar Father-in-law gifted me with Saligramam during my marriage although he knew well that I wont use it, coz it is a custom to send daughters with Saligramam. The one he gifted us was genuine and was from the deep forests of South America where alone it is believed to be available. The South Americans state that Saligramam is a solidified form of Anaconda saliva which gets solidified following cooling.

 

[vgane]

In Chennai my home is in Saligramam...Now I understand the greatness of this name!

 

[apsarathy]

Dear Mr.Asirvadam,
From your thread I assume you are not a Vaishnavite. I would request you to read the opening post by Shri Brahmanyan and follow it up by the thread from Mr.Prasad. You will know what Saligramam is all about. It is really amusing to read that
Saligramam is of South American origin. Get your facts right.

 

[prasad1]

My Iyengar Father-in-law gifted me with Saligramam during my marriage although he knew well that I wont use it, coz it is a custom to send daughters with Saligramam. The one he gifted us was genuine and was from the deep forests of South America where alone it is believed to be available. The South Americans state that Saligramam is a solidified form of Anaconda saliva which gets solidified following cooling.

Can you quote some reference for your statement about the origin of Saligramam?

 

[Asirvadam]

Dear Mr.Asirvadam,
From your thread I assume you are not a Vaishnavite.

Please read my post in the Introductions thread.

It is really amusing to read that
Saligramam is of South American origin.

Gross misinterpretation of my post. Please read my post again.

 

[Asirvadam]

Can you quote some reference for your statement about the origin of Saligramam?

There exist more than one version about Saligramam. All that I learnt from my Iyengar in-laws is that iyengars dont perform avahanam and visarjanam over Saligramam.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

It appears to be quite novel and strange to hear that salagramam origin is south America and that too it is solidified saliva of anaconda snake.

 

[auh]

My Iyengar Father-in-law gifted me with Saligramam during my marriage although he knew well that I wont use it, coz it is a custom to send daughters with Saligramam. The one he gifted us was genuine and was from the deep forests of South America where alone it is believed to be available. The South Americans state that Saligramam is a solidified form of Anaconda saliva which gets solidified following cooling.

The South Americans apparently also state that along with the saliva of the anaconda, a holy smoke gets imbibed into the Saligramam during the solidification process, and people can get "asirvadam" from such Saligramams and become "punida aatmas".

 

[vgane]

Asirvadam has not defended his post...There is no basis for his post & at best disparaging

 

[rishikesan]

As far as I know,Salagramam was used by really orthodox families who mostly confined to their houses & did Aaradhanam in a simple way with Milk abhishekam & keep it back in the Box Wife also was orthodox & fulfilled this in husband:s absence. When they leave the place to out-station would keep the Salagramam in side the rice . Now-a days,one cannot expect to do this, even though in some orhodox / not so Orthodox also hand over their Salagramam to their sons with a request to follow the ritual.
Finding it difficult to continue, those men hand over to any Vaishnava Temple.
So I think it is sporadically prevailing in some families, but most have abandoned., like Sandhyavandanam, Amavasai Tharpanam etc for paucity of time & while on tours. I sincerely feel that except some older people & exceptionally young residing in Triplicane/ Mylapore Kumbakonam/ Thanjavur & many Vaishnava Kshetrams, the rest reside either else where in the country or outside the country & are not able to do even minimum of Nithya karma & Perhaps in this KALI_YUGA one can recite Hare= Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare= Hare/ Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Hare Hare. The Pravachanams invariably touch this point & impress on younger generation to go to temples & pray whenever time permits & do minimum recital of 4 line Slokas to attain Liberation.
I am sure that our younger generation follow this in U.S. Where-ever they may reside , atleast as a Week-end visit with the small children. We should feel content on this, since it will be farce to expect beyond this

Rishikesan

 

[sarang]

Saligramam is an essential aradana item for vaishnavites; people who have excess saligramams donate for practising vaishnavites through temple or priest or directly; generally it is not sold for profit.

It is rare, difficult to get and an essential item in daily puja. Please donate the saligramam, if you don't use it for daily puja.

My Iyengar Father-in-law gifted me with Saligramam during my marriage although he knew well that I wont use it, coz it is a custom to send daughters with Saligramam. The one he gifted us was genuine and was from the deep forests of South America where alone it is believed to be available. The South Americans state that Saligramam is a solidified form of Anaconda saliva which gets solidified following cooling.

 

[sangom]

The Himalayan ranges got formed when the floating Indian land mass collided with the southern part of ancient asia, that is now the southern border of china. Ocan bed got raised in the process and the small crustacean shells started flowing through the Gandaki river. It is the well-formed crustacean shells so found, which are known to hindus as salagramam. Depending upon certain peculiarities of these crustacean shells, our pundits started labeling them as vishnu, santanagopalam, krishna, narasimha, etc. It is all a matter of belief which is the other surface of superstition.

I personally believe that both the vishnu etc., concepts and the salagramam belief are wrong; god is not in any of these - it is within each one of us only and nowhere else.

 

[prasad1]

The Himalayan ranges got formed when the floating Indian land mass collided with the southern part of ancient asia, that is now the southern border of china. Ocan bed got raised in the process and the small crustacean shells started flowing through the Gandaki river. It is the well-formed crustacean shells so found, which are known to hindus as salagramam. Depending upon certain peculiarities of these crustacean shells, our pundits started labeling them as vishnu, santanagopalam, krishna, narasimha, etc. It is all a matter of belief which is the other surface of superstition.

I personally believe that both the vishnu etc., concepts and the salagramam belief are wrong; god is not in any of these - it is within each one of us only and nowhere else.

I like your post, I had posted a similar message in
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/12402-saligrama-stone.html#post192624

 

[apsarathy]

I don't think it is superstition; it is Faith or strong Belief. And this faith or belief alone that drives our lives.

 

[apsarathy]

Anyway, Mr.Asirvadam hasn't yet come forward to defend his unwanted and disparaging remarks.

 

[Nara]

My Iyengar Father-in-law gifted me with Saligramam during my marriage although he knew well that I wont use it, coz it is a custom to send daughters with Saligramam. The one he gifted us was genuine and was from the deep forests of South America where alone it is believed to be available. The South Americans state that Saligramam is a solidified form of Anaconda saliva which gets solidified following cooling.

This man is obviously trolling, ignore him. They are not solidified saliva, but, they are indeed fossilized remains of some sort of small creature. I believe Shaligrmams used to be found in the river Ghantaki. But, these days, I am told, they can be found only in the upper origins of the river, a good 4 to 5 days trek even from Muktinath shrine. However, along the way to Muktinath from Jomsom locals sell Shaligramam, but the authenticity is questionable, they could be just stones that look like a shaligramam.

Reading this thread it seems to me that there are misconceptions about Shaligramam even from those who seem to venerate it. First off, it is not a pooja item like dhoopam, deepam, pushpam, etc. Shaligramam is the very object of worship. The pooja items are used to do aradhanai to the shaligramam.

The belief is that Sriman Narayana suo moto takes residence in all shaligramam, as opposed to vigrahas wherein he takes residence only upon proper prana pratishta invocation. While Sriman Narayana is said to leave the vighraha if proper aradhana is interrupted even once, not so with shaligramam. Whether or not worship is continued shaligramam is believed to maintain its divinity. The faithful, of course, do not want to see aradhana interrupted even once, so they take the shaligramam even when they travel -- placing it in a bowl of rice is done, but not desirable. If it gets interrupted due to unavoidable reasons, like theettu and no Brahmin male post upanayanam and samasrayanam was available to do the aradhanai, then, when aradhanai is resumed after the teettu is over thirumanjanam (abhishekam) with milk is to be performed. All this means the shaligramam is not just a stone or a fossil to believers, it is God who has made his abode in these objects out of his supposed infinite compassion to make it easy for the sinful souls to worship him.

It is true that proper “madi” needs to be maintained, but then that is not a special requirement only if you do Shaligramam worship, a Brahmin is supposed to maintain “madi” no matter what. This, of course, is impossible unless you have an outhouse separated from the main house where the women can spend their days of rajaswala, if they remain under the same roof, all the great Neptune's ocean cannot get you Madi.

It is true that girl’s parents present shaligramam to the new mappillai, but it is not dowry, and it can never be two shaligramams, the proper count is 1, 4, 6, ....

 

[sarang]

With asirvadam at one end and know all ex vaishnava at the other end, life is jingalala!

Brahmins too are becoming clever; they do what their gurus and acharyas approve. All born brahmins may not get 100% marks, but many get the golden median. Practising brahmins can and will decide what is necessary and sufficient. They will support and eulogize and respect and follow those worth following.