Riddles from Rig Veda

[mahakavi]

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>> Agni is stronger than strength itself.<<

Let us carry this logic further.
1. Agni is the grandson of water
2. Agni is the son of strength
3. Agni is stronger than strength.
4. A deluge of water can put out fire and overpower it. So water is stronger than both strength and agni.
5. தாய் எட்டடி பாய்ந்தால் குட்டி பதினாறடி பாயும்
6. Grandfather (water) can leap farther (perhaps 32 feet) than the grandson.
7. Thus in this case, reverse genetics (water stronger than fire) works. Water inherits (in a reverse order) strength from strength and agni as well.
8. In the end everything is cyclical, like a snake biting its own tail.

 

[mahakavi]

The third riddle is also about Agni and it is very simple.

Why is Agni called 'Apam GarbaH'? (the embryo of water)

Pl clarify. Do you mean water is the uterus and fire is the embryo or do you mean fire carries water inside it --- that is originator of water?

 

[renuka]

Won't Apam Garbha technically mean the same as Son of Waters?

 

[zebra16]

The third riddle is also about Agni and it is very simple.

Why is Agni called 'Apam GarbaH'? (the embryo of water)

May be because Agni in the form of lightning is residing in the parjanya, the rain bearing clouds. When the rain waters are released Agni makes his appearance in the form of lightning. The accompanying thunder is attributed to Indra's vajra.

 

[vikrama]

Pl clarify. Do you mean water is the uterus and fire is the embryo or do you mean fire carries water inside it --- that is originator of water?

apam garbah means that the waters carry the fire in their womb

 

[vikrama]

apam garbah means that the waters carry the fire in their womb

yes. It has the added connotation that the embryo is concealed. In this sense, Zebra16's guess that lightning is referred to, seems justified. I would like to add one more guess. Could it refer to under water volcanoes>

 

[mahakavi]

>>

Could it refer to under water volcanoes>​

In that respect even prithvi is Apam garbah, since the sea floor is hidden by the water in the ocean.
Then agni and prithvi are brothers.

 

[renuka]

That way I can say even the stomach with it's digestive fluids carry the fire of digestion.
So stomach and it's digestive fluids is also Apam Garbah.

Agni: The Digestive Fire « Arunachala Yoga & Ayurveda

Agni: The Digestive Fire

Within us this agni is primarily known as jathara agni, the digestive fire. Residing mostly in the stomach as hydrochloric acid (HCL), it is a term that covers all digestive enzymes.
​

 

[vikrama]

That way I can say even the stomach with it's digestive fluids carry the fire of digestion.
So stomach and it's digestive fluids is also Apam Garbah.

Agni: The Digestive Fire « Arunachala Yoga & Ayurveda

Agni: The Digestive Fire

Within us this agni is primarily known as jathara agni, the digestive fire. Residing mostly in the stomach as hydrochloric acid (HCL), it is a term that covers all digestive enzymes. /QUOTE​

Yes. The Vedic term Agni includes the digestive system also. See my posts on Agni in Rig Veda.http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-traditions/4320-agni-rig-veda.html

 

[vikrama]

Here is our next riddle.
We have heard of Devas fighting against Asuras. The puranas speak of various Asuras like vritrasura, Sura Padmasura, and how they were killed.

Do you know that the Vedas call Indra, Varuna and Savita also as Asuras?
What exactly do the rishis mean by the term Asura when addressing Indra as O Asura ?

 

[mahakavi]

Yes. The Vedic term Agni includes the digestive system also. See my posts on Agni in Rig Veda.http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/philosophy-traditions/4320-agni-rig-veda.html

So, the take-home lesson is "sarvam agni mayam jagat". You can also fight fire with fire, as the saying goes.

 

[mahakavi]

Now a counter riddle.
Agni is also son of air/wind. Why or How?
Agni (fire) is called pavanAtmaja ( पवनात्मजः ) per V. S. Apte dictionary (in addition to Hanuman, and Bheema)

 

[vikrama]

Now a counter riddle.
Agni is also son of air/wind. Why or How?
Agni (fire) is called pavanAtmaja ( पवनात्मजः ) per V. S. Apte dictionary (in addition to Hanuman, and Bheema)

In the Hindu way of description of creation, Akash was created first. Thence came Vayu. From Vayu came Agni. Thence came Water. Last came prithvi. In that order the next one is called the child of the previous one.

 

[mahakavi]

In the Hindu way of description of creation, Akash was created first. Thence came Vayu. From Vayu came Agni. Thence came Water. Last came prithvi. In that order the next one is called the child of the previous one.

This perhaps follows the sequence of the creation of universe in scientific reasoning too. First there was all vacuum (Akash?). Then as Nature abhors vacuum it created air/wind (vAyu) to fill the vacuum with gases. The gases started rubbing against each other (collision) and that created fire. In the ensuing events the gases started igniting and formed other complex products. They then got cooled by water which was one of the products during the combustion process. Then the heat subsided due to drenching by water. The gaseous products cooled to liquids and further down to solids (planets). Earth was thus one of the final products.

 

[mahakavi]

Early on we saw agni as the grandson of water. Now we see agni as the father of water. My grandson is my father! Strange relationship, isn't it?

 

[vikrama]

Since no one attempted to answer my last riddle, I am giving mine here.

The term Asura originally meant mighty. It has been used 90 times in RV. In all the cases it is used in the same meaning. There is s Sukta (3.55) which has 22 mantras each ending with 'mahat devanam asuratvam ekam'. It means that the the asuratvam (might) of the Devas is great and unique.

Though Sayana gives different meaning in different contexts, they are all extensions of the same root meaning.

Enemies of Indra are also called asura.because of their might and not because of their wickedness. Agni, and Surya are called Asuragna (asura -killers) in the sense that they can kill even the mightiest.

The supreme Brahma, who created Surya is also called Asura.

To denote a wicked man who troubles others by his might a special term Rakshasa is used.

 

[renuka]

Early on we saw agni as the grandson of water. Now we see agni as the father of water. My grandson is my father! Strange relationship, isn't it?

Don't worry the whole world is one's family.

वसुधैव कुटुम्बकं

 

[mahakavi]

>>The term Asura originally meant mighty. It has been used 90 times in RV. In all the cases it is used in the same meaning. There is s Sukta (3.55) which has 22 mantras each ending with 'mahat devanam asuratvam ekam'. It means that the the asuratvam (might) of the [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Devas[/FONT][/FONT] is great and unique.<<

Brahma is an asura? (BrahmAsura)? I thought asura was just the opposite of sura. sura refers to the celestials (otherwise known as dEvAs) and asurAs are just the opposite (pretty vs ugly situation). There is also a term called bhUsura to refer to great people on earth. Sure asuras had more power than dEvAs and were constantly fighting with the latter and winning. Doesn't seem right, does it? Why do the dEvAs who live in the divine kingdom not have the power (they just are terrorized by the asuras) and if so do they derserve to be there? Ironically Indra has special powers (being the CEO of the heavens) but he too was running away from the asuras and hiding in some caves on earth, as I read. Also leaving all the celestial beauties he came to earth falling for ahalyA (who was married to sage Gautama). No wonder he was weak. How did the asurAs gain so much power so as to torture the "innocent" dEvAs (if at all they are innocent)? I think the asurAs did lot of penance (padmAsura, narakAsura etc.,) to propitiate the gods (mostly shiva and brahma) and got instant boons giving them immense power. Why were the gods suckers for such propitiation so as to grant powers to the asuras who tortured all others who did not obey them? The gods cannot reason out the consequences of their actions--it seems. Well these are myths anyway and no point in arguing with such. When myths (and not truth) prevail reason goes out the window! It is good there are no more asuras that haunt the celestials although there are equivalents of asuras on earth such as dons, kingpins, drug warlords, several politicians, and some corporate titans who torture the earthlings.

Where is the one who declared,
"parithrANAya sAdhUnAm vinAsAyaca dhushkritAm
dharma samsthApanArthAya sambhavAmi yugE yugE" ??????

Is he still asleep? Will somebody wake him up?

 

[mahakavi]

Don't worry the whole world is one's family.

वसुधैव कुटुम्बकं

It is OK if it is one family. But having conflicting relationships boggles the mind. It is like the riddle in K. Balachandar's movie "apUrva rAgangaL"---if my son's mother-in-law's daughter is my wife then what is the relationship between my wife's daughter and my son (or some such complicated question)?
I like to know once for all whether agni is the grandson of water or the father of water.ray2:

 

[renuka]

It is OK if it is one family. But having conflicting relationships boggles the mind. It is like the riddle in K. Balachandar's movie "apUrva rAgangaL"---if my son's mother-in-law's daughter is my wife then what is the relationship between my wife's daughter and my son (or some such complicated question)?
I like to know once for all whether agni is the grandson of water or the father of water.ray2:

Don't worry the panchabhutas(5 elements) never get married so every relationship is still legitimate!!LOL

Wow this is the only relationship where there is no marriage yet each progeny is legitimate.
It's a riddle by itself!

 

[mahakavi]

Wow this is the only relationship where there is no marriage yet each progeny is legitimate.
It's a riddle by itself!

John Edwards (former presidential candidate in the US whose trial ended in his favor---acquittal) and his mistress are not married. But the daughter born out of that relationship four years ago (Quinn Hunter is the name) is adored and called by John Edwards "my daughter---I love her". So John Edwards qualifies to be the sixth bhUtA (along with the original five)--right?

 

[vikrama]

Here comes the next riddle. It just requires your imagination.
1.95.2 Tvastar's ten daughters, vigilant and youthful, produced this Infant borne to sundry quarters.
They bear around him whose long flames are pointed, fulgent among mankind with native splendour.

3.29.13 Mortals have brought to life the God Immortal, the Conqueror with mighty jaws, unfailing.
The sisters ten, unwedded and united, together grasp the Babe, the new-born Infant.


The infant referred to in the above two is Agni. The question - who are the ten sisters/daughters?

 

[mahakavi]

I know! A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J.
When you get the real names match these up on the left hand column and the names on the right hand column.:dance:

 

[vikrama]

The answer to the last riddle is our ten fingers.

When the fire is just lit, whether by match-stick or by Arani sticks, the flame is too small to withstand the gushing winds. So we cup our hands around the fire and protect it from being blown out. Once the fire grows big, it does not require this support.

The fingers that protect the young fire are spoken of as the ten sisters/ unwed daughters of Tvasta.

 

[Uma Raja Ramakrishnan]

Very interesting Sir.