Reincarnation - Real or A Myth?

[CLN]

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The Karma Theory and the Cycle of Births & Rebirths is strongly interwoven in the Hindu way of thinking. A great sensation is created when a person speaks of events and experiences from a past life - the younger the person the more startling and sensational the episode turns into. The same is the case when some extreme form of precociousness is exhibited by a very young person. Here again, the younger the child, the more amazed is the society.

There appears to be a flood of information available in the net and elsewhere about evidences of rebirth / reincarnation etc., but all of that is nothing but an anthology of all such unusual and isolated events and incidents reported from various quarters at various times by various people. Over time, these reports tend to take on wings of imagination at the hands of the handlers and then stories metamorphose to colourful and more spectacular forms, at the expense of authenticity.

It would be worthy of information and enlightenment to all if any of the Forum members are aware or familiar with any organised study / research undertaken by any responsible intellectuals anywhere in the world in this matter and if they care to share it with others.

Meanwhile, here are a few links to the spectacular talent of a tabla sensation - a mere less than 3-year old Marathi boy named Soham.

Soham playing his tabla

Year old Soham Gorane

YouTube - ‪SOHAM JAGTAP‬‏

The way his baby fingers play on the twin drums, the lovable way he cocks his head and shakes his neck while playing, the childish mannerisms he indulges in totally unconciously, even while others are talking about him - it is a treat to watch and enjoy. People who have been awe-struck by his talent have already started commenting that he is the reincarnation of Ustad Qureshi Alla Rakha Khan, the illustriouis maestro and father of the illustrious Zakir Hussain Khan!

So, here we are! Is Soham an incarnation of Ustad Qureshi Alla Rakha Khan or some one else? Or, all this precociousness in Soham and other kids in other areas too, a lucky combination of genes, spewed out by nature in its grand old scheme of random combinations and recombinations?

 

[Swamiramjee]

I read an article in Express Star Teller June 2011 issue by Dr.Ashish Barua titled "Rebirth is a reality'although one may not be aware of it". Here he has explained in details research by Professor Ian Stevenson of University of Virginia;Dr.Sawant Pasricha of NIMHANS of Bangalore.

The case studies undertaken by these two scholars confirms beyond doubt that rebirth is a reality and not amyth

 

[kunjuppu]

CLN,

i too have heard instances of folks 'remembering' their previous births.

personally i am neutral, but would like to be shown more numerous instances.

for arguements sake, the world has about 6.8 billion people. we should be hearing atleast about 6 billion stories of rebirths? not just the onesys and twosys, at random. right?

also, if each of us were reborn, how come the population of the world keeps on increasing? that part of 'new creation' i do not understand.

a good topic. hope it gets popular in postings...

 

[CLN]

kunjuppu: also, if each of us were reborn, how come the population of the world keeps on increasing? that part of 'new creation' i do not understand.

Hinduism considers soul being eternal and imperishable. Living beings - both humans and non-humans - must be taking rebirth after death not only as humans but other forms of life as well. If that is true, the chances of a human taking rebirth in the very next or within a few rebirths as a human again may not be very high. Perhaps, that may explain the rareness of rebirths (mere onesys and twosys!) and recollection of past memories as another human being being reported. For example, had I been a human being in my previous birth I might remember the past experiences more vividly rather than my experiences as an earthworm or a fish or a zebra or a sparrow or some such thing, which I could have been before this present birth, according to the Hindu Rebirth theory!

One redeeming thing, according to me, is that still it appears, looking at the 'population increase' factor you have mentioned, more and more human souls are perhaps becoming eligible for rebirths as humans than as non-humans in the dynamic soul transgression scenario!

Hmmm... Let us await more inputs, as you have observed!

 

[kunjuppu]

something that i wish to share. my own personal experience.

the very first time i read about the nazi holocaust - ie the nazi mass killing of the european jews, i felt, that i knew about it already.

then, i read a story, where a bunch of jews, were being transported in a lorry, and one of them stood up, and saw premonition of the gas chambers where the jews were gassed and then cremated. the lorry stopped and some prisoners escaped.

that is where my memory fails me - was i killed while trying to escape or did i make the escape, because some post war destroyed german cities were very familiar. i knew that i did not get gassed.

was it true. or a product of my (rather) vivid wishful imagination?

same thing.. i have felt that i have participated as a passive hindu, in the first muslim invasion (ghazni) against prithvi raj chauhan

 

[CLN]

kunjuppu: something that i wish to share. my own personal experience.

There could be some thing in your mental experiences! How I wish that we soon perfect the methods of studying the brain and interpreting its activities more concretely and accurately so that these mental images can be better interpreted!

 

[zebra16]

For example, had I been a human being in my previous birth I might remember the past experiences more vividly rather than my experiences as an earthworm or a fish or a zebra or a sparrow or some such thing, which I could have been before this present birth, according to the Hindu Rebirth theory!

I like it

Regards,

narayan

 

[kunjuppu]

CLN

i agree with you than the total number of living organisms in the earth is the same, except their avatars.

probably more humans are born, out of cows, chickens, rabbits, lambs, pigs and fish, for dont we kill so many of these days, to feed the humans. each of these creatures that gives up its life to be the food of the human, i would assume, in the natural order of things, move up in the scale, to replace the human that consumed it.

based on that fact, every one of us who ever tasted meat or byproducts, are destined to be animals or amoeba in the next birth.

i would imagine this would include many of the mami mamis who enjoyed those crispy macdonald's french fries in the usa - after all these are made out of pig's lard. also those who enjoy (made from rennet - a derivative from the cow's stomach) or those who had their medicines capped in gelatinous capsules (again animal by products)!! or those who took certain inoculations (derived from pig or monkey).

not intending to upset folks here, but truly, it is well nigh impossible to be a pure சாக்ஷாத் vegetarian these days.

 

[Nara]

....i agree with you than the total number of living organisms in the earth is the same, except their avatars.

K, there was a time when there was no life in this planet, zero. Now it is teaming with countless gadzillions. How can the total number of living organisms be the same?

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

...i would imagine this would include many of the mami mamis who enjoyed those crispy macdonald's french fries in the usa - after all these are made out of pig's lard. also those who enjoy (made from rennet - a derivative from the cow's stomach) or those who had their medicines capped in gelatinous capsules (again animal by products)!! or those who took certain inoculations (derived from pig or monkey).

K, I agree with your general point, but some of the facts you provide are incorrect. Yes, there was a time lard was used to fry stuff, no more, McDonalds, and other chains as well, use vegetable oil of some kind. Same is the case with the cheese Pizza Hut uses, it is rennet free.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

K, there was a time when there was no life in this planet, zero. Now it is teaming with countless gadzillions. How can the total number of living organisms be the same?

Cheers!

CLN,

is this possible? thanks..

 

[kunjuppu]

K, I agree with your general point, but some of the facts you provide are incorrect. Yes, there was a time lard was used to fry stuff, no more, McDonalds, and other chains as well, use vegetable oil of some kind. Same is the case with the cheese Pizza Hut uses, it is rennet free.

Cheers!

nara,

i dont believe it. the only way, macfries, get crisp on the outside, soft on the inside, is with lard. atleast that is my belief.

but you probably saved heartburns from a lot of mama mamis here

 

[Nara]

i dont believe it. the only way, macfries, get crisp on the outside, soft on the inside, is with lard. atleast that is my belief.

but you probably saved heartburns from a lot of mama mamis here

K, I give below the ingredients of McDonalds FF and HB, taken from their web site. Note that the natural beef flavor is also from wheat and milk, not meat.

Why must crip on the outside soft on the inside not possible with vegetable oil?

Cheers!


French Fries:
Potatoes, vegetable oil (canola oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor [wheat and milk derivatives]*, citric acid [preservative]), dextrose, sodium acid pyrophosphate (maintain color), salt. Prepared in vegetable oil (Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness). Dimethylpolysiloxane added as an antifoaming agent.
CONTAINS: WHEAT AND MILK.
*(Natural beef flavor contains hydrolyzed wheat and hydrolyzed milk as starting ingredients).

Hashbrown:
Potatoes, vegetable oil (canola oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor [wheat and milk derivatives]*, citric acid [preservative]), salt, corn flour, dehydrated potato, dextrose, sodium acid pyrophosphate (maintain color), extractives of black pepper. Prepared in vegetable oil: Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated
soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness. Dimethylpolysiloxane added as an antifoaming agent.
CONTAINS: WHEAT AND MILK.
*(Natural beef flavor contains hydrolyzed wheat and hydrolyzed milk as starting ingredients).

 

[kunjuppu]

K, I give below the ingredients of McDonalds FF and HB, taken from their web site. Note that the natural beef flavor is also from wheat and milk, not meat.

Why must crip on the outside soft on the inside not possible with vegetable oil?

Cheers!


French Fries:
Potatoes, vegetable oil (canola oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor [wheat and milk derivatives]*, citric acid [preservative]), dextrose, sodium acid pyrophosphate (maintain color), salt. Prepared in vegetable oil (Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness). Dimethylpolysiloxane added as an antifoaming agent.
CONTAINS: WHEAT AND MILK.
*(Natural beef flavor contains hydrolyzed wheat and hydrolyzed milk as starting ingredients).

Hashbrown:
Potatoes, vegetable oil (canola oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor [wheat and milk derivatives]*, citric acid [preservative]), salt, corn flour, dehydrated potato, dextrose, sodium acid pyrophosphate (maintain color), extractives of black pepper. Prepared in vegetable oil: Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated
soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to preserve freshness. Dimethylpolysiloxane added as an antifoaming agent.
CONTAINS: WHEAT AND MILK.
*(Natural beef flavor contains hydrolyzed wheat and hydrolyzed milk as starting ingredients).

OK OK!!!!

i give up.

ha haha hahahahahaha

 

[Nara]

OK OK!!!!

i give up.

ha haha hahahahahaha

K, you are allowed four images, how come you stopped with only three? Some of our esteemed members would never have wasted it -- I shudder if more is allowed.

Now, let me use the one image left for my use, .

Cheers!

 

[CLN]

CLN,

is this possible? thanks..

Honestly, I don't know! The only type of response, in defence of the Indestructibility of Souls Theory that can be offered is perhaps the type of relationship that connects Jeevatma and Paramatma and the different views and interpretations propounded by various Aacharyas - a field in which our friend Nara is much more knowledgeable and competent to speak about than me, as we both know!

My post #4 is just one plausible explanation for the scarcity of reports of remembering poorvajanmam and the population growth factor, but validating it or otherwise not being within my knowledge or competence level.

 

[CLN]

Nara: Now, let me use the one image left for my use

That is a good exchange!

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

IN India,I have noticed in many shops which offer readymade clothes on 'SALE' at reduced prices a remark 'Export Quality'
On enquiry the shopkeeper may try to explain that for some minor defects these stuff failed 'quality control'.
The possible explanation as to why only a few remember their past birth and not the majority,these few would have failed the 'quality control' standards of the creator.
Assuming that some Souls get merged with Paramatma and thus no rebirth,normally
there should be reduction in the total population of all souls in this planet. Since we are told that population always gets increased,the Creator may be releasing new souls just like RBI prints new series of Currency Notes for circulation.

 

[renuka]

IN India,I have noticed in many shops which offer readymade clothes on 'SALE' at reduced prices a remark 'Export Quality'
On enquiry the shopkeeper may try to explain that for some minor defects these stuff failed 'quality control'.
The possible explanation as to why only a few remember their past birth and not the majority,these few would have failed the 'quality control' standards of the creator.
Assuming that some Souls get merged with Paramatma and thus no rebirth,normally
there should be reduction in the total population of all souls in this planet. Since we are told that population always gets increased,the Creator may be releasing new souls just like RBI prints new series of Currency Notes for circulation.

Dear Sir,

The Creator is recycling the souls.We see less animals,less fish in the sea and less plants around.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sir,

The Creator is recycling the souls.We see less animals,less fish in the sea and less plants around.

We would expect the inanimate souls being more numerous than animate souls and the animate souls more numerous than intelligent souls. This is because the lesser ones I would think merge to form the evolved ones. At the ultimate level there is just one omniscient and omnipotent soul which is brahman.

Population increase can be accounted by thinking that there is an increase in the number of souls that are being sent to a particular place at a particular time. There should be corresponding decrease somewhere at that time.

 

[CLN]

BK: the Creator may be releasing new souls just like RBI prints new series of Currency Notes for circulation.

Dear Shri BK,

You have compared the Creator to RBI. I hope there are no 'fake' souls coming out from the Creator's factory, similar to fake notes allegedly getting released by RBI! . For details, please refer to my other thread "CBI Raid on RBI! Shocking, Isn't It?"

 

[CLN]

sravna: We would expect the inanimate souls being more numerous than animate souls and the animate souls more numerous than intelligent souls.

Are "souls" classifiable into 'animate' and 'inanimate' things? Do souls have attributes like 'intelligence' 'idiocy' etc.? If so, are there any training procedures to improve the intelligence of souls?

 

[sravna]

Are "souls" classifiable into 'animate' and 'inanimate' things? Do souls have attributes like 'intelligence' 'idiocy' etc.? If so, are there any training procedures to improve the intelligence of souls?

Shri CLN,

I should have said it as, "the soul of inanimate things, living and intelligent beings" to have made it clear. Sorry about it.

 

[CLN]

Shri CLN,

I should have said it as, "the soul of inanimate things, living and intelligent beings" to have made it clear. Sorry about it.

'Soul of inanimate things' is indeed a novel concept - to me, at least!

So, I guess that I can think of the souls of hmmm... say, the chair I sit in, the cup from which I drink my coffee, the hanger by which I hang my shirt, the shoe I put on my foot and so on so forth. What a wonderful thing to visualize!

An interesting idea! Suppose I drop my cup on the floor and it shatters to smithereens, will the original single soul of the cup take on as many new avatars as there are broken pieces of my coffee-cup, each qualifying to have an independent soul in its own right? Or, perhaps, with the cup having been irrevocably destroyed, its soul will coalesce with Paramatma, (i.e., attain Moksha) who would promptly ensure, in His ultimate Wisdom and Unlimited Compassion, to allot a soul each to those poor broken pieces too, in no time, as a routine act, in His capacity as the Universal Provider? It is really thrilling to think of the aftermath of various options and various actions!

 

[kunjuppu]

'Soul of inanimate things' is indeed a novel concept - to me, at least!

So, I guess that I can think of the souls of hmmm... say, the chair I sit in, the cup from which I drink my coffee, the hanger by which I hang my shirt, the shoe I put on my foot and so on so forth. What a wonderful thing to visualize!

An interesting idea! Suppose I drop my cup on the floor and it shatters to smithereens, will the original single soul of the cup take on as many new avatars as there are broken pieces of my coffee-cup, each qualifying to have an independent soul in its own right? Or, perhaps, with the cup having been irrevocably destroyed, its soul will coalesce with Paramatma, (i.e., attain Moksha) who would promptly ensure, in His ultimate Wisdom and Unlimited Compassion, to allot a soul each to those poor broken pieces too, in no time, as a routine act, in His capacity as the Universal Provider? It is really thrilling to think of the aftermath of various options and various actions!

awesome analysis CLN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!