Ramayana Vs Mahabharat explained in the Modern Business Context

[praveen]

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[video=youtube;aqpa1ku4tnU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpa1ku4tnU[/video]

The entire episode takes into account the principle behind Ramayana and Mahabaratha and as well the dharma, rule which is being applied/ followed in to-day's business.

 

[Yamaka]

Very interesting....

A Businessman - the Profit Seeker - is trying to understand the idea of Letter and Spirit of Laws (Dharma) from ancient Fictions written by Great Vyasa and Valmiki about 2000 years ago...

On record, I am not against the Profit Seeker at all... as long as she/he has delivered something of value (be it a product or a service) to the consumer...

Great Poets Vyasa and Valmiki did not have any clue to the ideas of "Adding Value" or "Profit Motive" when they wrote these two Great Epics.

For them the Dharma preached in MH is the Struggle of Human Beings against Gambling and Similar Vices, and in Ramayana against Inheritance and Betrayal...

Nothing more.. nothing less.

 

[tks]

There has been emergence of pseudo Management fellows in the past 20 years. This fellow who explains in the video neither understands Ramayana nor Mahabharatha nor management/leadership in my view .

Sri Y - your summary of these epics is flawed, not sure if that is what you were told when you were growing up as a non-Hindu. You may want to get the book by Rajaji and read it . Then share what your summary is Hint: Central theme of Ramayana is not about betrayal. Similarly Mahabharatha's theme is not about evils of gambling or war for land ..

 

[renuka]

Very interesting....

A Businessman - the Profit Seeker - is trying to understand the idea of Letter and Spirit of Laws (Dharma) from ancient Fictions written by Great Vyasa and Valmiki about 2000 years ago...

On record, I am not against the Profit Seeker at all... as long as she/he has delivered something of value (be it a product or a service) to the consumer...

Great Poets Vyasa and Valmiki did not have any clue to the ideas of "Adding Value" or "Profit Motive" when they wrote these two Great Epics.

For them the Dharma preached in MH is the Struggle of Human Beings against Gambling and Similar Vices, and in Ramayana against Inheritance and Betrayal...

Nothing more.. nothing less.

There is nothing 100% right and nothing 100% wrong in this world.
It's just how we view it ....in other words our perception.

When we have no clue even what will happen tomorrow we can never rigidly classify anything under the "Nothing More or Nothing Less Category"

 

[Yamaka]

There has been emergence of pseudo Management fellows in the past 20 years. This fellow who explains in the video neither understands Ramayana nor Mahabharatha nor management/leadership in my view .

Sri Y - your summary of these epics is flawed, not sure if that is what you were told when you were growing up as a non-Hindu. You may want to get the book by Rajaji and read it . Then share what your summary is Hint: Central theme of Ramayana is not about betrayal. Similarly Mahabharatha's theme is not about evils of gambling or war for land ..

Dear Dr.tks:

In college, I read these two great Epics with vigor and interest. I wrote interesting Commentaries about it and got very high marks from my professors!

Now you ask me to read about it from someone else' point of view (even Rajaji included!)

Why? People have plenty of "spin" on ancient master pieces like MB and RY.

Many believe they are God's Words... I believe they are the IMAGINATION of Poets Vyasa and Valmiki - who showed their literary prowess in dazzling beauty!

That's all.

Regards

Y

 

[geetu habibah]

Dear Dr.tks:

In college, I read these two great Epics with vigor and interest. I wrote interesting Commentaries about it and got very high marks from my professors!

Now you ask me to read about it from someone else' point of view (even Rajaji included!)

Why? People have plenty of "spin" on ancient master pieces like MB and RY.

Many believe they are God's Words... I believe they are the IMAGINATION of Poets Vyasa and Valmiki - who showed their literary prowess in dazzling beauty!

That's all.

Regards

Y

Anyone who is even semi literate can read and write but reading and writing is not enough.
In college everyone writes to get good marks and not to fail exams.

One needs to imbibe the essence of the Ramayana and Mahabharata.The taste of the nectar is awarded to the sincere student.That no professor can give.


Hare Krishna

 

[biswa]

There is nothing 100% right and nothing 100% wrong in this world.
It's just how we view it ....in other words our perception.

When we have no clue even what will happen tomorrow we can never rigidly classify anything under the "Nothing More or Nothing Less Category"

Renuka, you are 100% right. There is a tendency to always think that I am right, my opinion must be correct. The belief that if I don't know, or don't understand something, then it can't be true: is just delusional. True men of science are always exploring the unknown with an open mind.

 

[Yamaka]

Renuka, you are 100% right. There is a tendency to always think that I am right, my opinion must be correct. The belief that if I don't know, or don't understand something, then it can't be true: is just delusional. True men of science are always exploring the unknown with an open mind.

Dear Biswa:

We are talking about ancient FICTIONAL Mythologies written about 2000 years ago..

What's the unknown here to use scientific approach?

Enlighten me, please.

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

Anyone who is even semi literate can read and write but reading and writing is not enough.
In college everyone writes to get good marks and not to fail exams.

One needs to imbibe the essence of the Ramayana and Mahabharata.The taste of the nectar is awarded to the sincere student.That no professor can give.
Hare Krishna

Not in Madura College, Madurai. Here is the sample of Qn in the Critical Analysis of Kamban's Ramayanam Studies:

Why did Rama kill Vaali? I wrote the Essay under the banner: Vengeance and Betrayal.

He read my Essay openly in the class, and concluded: A Very New Perspective, totally out-of-the-box Analysis; deserves the Top mark in the Class!

That Tamil Professor was not looking for nectar! He wanted reasoning and analysis!

Take care!

 

[geetu habibah]

Not in Madura College, Madurai. Here is the sample of Qn in the Critical Analysis of Kamban's Ramayanam Studies:

Why did Rama kill Vaali? I wrote the Essay under the banner: Vengeance and Betrayal.

He read my Essay openly in the class, and concluded: A Very New Perspective, totally out-of-the-box Analysis; deserves the Top mark in the Class!

That Tamil Professor was not looking for nectar! He wanted reasoning and analysis!

Take care!

So???What is the big deal?Anyone can give their opinion whether inbox or outbox in location.
It was not as if Vyasa and Valmiki were your professors.

 

[tks]

Dear Dr.tks:

In college, I read these two great Epics with vigor and interest. I wrote interesting Commentaries about it and got very high marks from my professors!

Now you ask me to read about it from someone else' point of view (even Rajaji included!)

Why? People have plenty of "spin" on ancient master pieces like MB and RY.

Many believe they are God's Words... I believe they are the IMAGINATION of Poets Vyasa and Valmiki - who showed their literary prowess in dazzling beauty!

That's all.

Regards


Y

Dr Y -

Unlike biblical religion that you are exposed to Hindu tradition does not place emphasis on history at all. Vyasa may not be a real person and it is irrelevant. It might be a family name and the epic may have been written over generations. We don't care. Krishna may have been a historical person or purely a presentation as Bhagavan by Vysa. We dont care since the teaching that is relevant to our day today life is not affected by those irrelevant details.

Having said this, let me state that there are some Hindus who have chosen to do all kinds of studies to establish that such a person like Rama and Krishna lived in this earth.

For anyone to take a strong position either way on such matters, I would expect that they have done research and have facts to back up their position. Such would be the expectation in a place of research since making claims without facts means one loses credibility quickly. I am sure as a scientist you understand this point. I know this may be a fun discussion and taking strong position enhances a debate. But I would wait and watch before taking strong position without facts

There is another reason I would never take a strong position on such topics. If birthday celebrations are happening every year for Rama and Krishna in millions of household it might be considered tad insensitive to tell them that they are celebrating the birthday of an imaginary character. Often non-Hindus who are steeped in biblical religions (not Judaism which is an exception in my mind and is a gentle religion) and often groomed with intolerance at young age usually speak of traditions of others with disrespect. I know as a self proclaimed Atheist you dont want to be mistaken to be projecting those thinking especially since you were raised in a nonHindu family.

It is admirable that you did well in you college tests
Getting the essence of any story is hard in my view. It is irrelevant again that many Hindus may think of Rama and Krishna as forms of God (note the plural in Forms and not in God )

The stories written for young children in middle school by Rajaji is captivating. Many adults have enjoyed Rajaji's narration of Ramayana and Mahabharata.

With years of experience in life as a lens, I thought you may be able to abstract the key learning by reading such a story book now and I am sure it is likely to be very different from the kind of summary you understood as a college kid. There is no spin or points of view in Rajaji's books as far as I know.

Regards

 

[sarang]

The other day in a question and answer session with a spiritual teacher, one american indian girl had this doubt.
AIG: Why we pray to an idol? My friends make fun of me.
ST: What is your name? Why do you care what your friends say? Who are your friends? What they do?
AIG: They go to church; they don't have idols.
ST: You tell them we do pray in this way.
AIG: What buddha said . . .
ST: Then follow buddha
AIG: No, I don't want to follow buddha, I want to follow my parents.
ST: Then follow their advice.

 

[Yamaka]

Dr.tks: Ref post 11

My response in bold letters below -

"Dr Y -

Unlike biblical religion that you are exposed to Hindu tradition does not place emphasis on history at all. Vyasa may not be a real person and it is irrelevant. It might be a family name and the epic may have been written over generations. We don't care.[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Krishna[/FONT][/FONT] may have been a historical person or purely a presentation as Bhagavan by Vysa. We dont care since the teaching that is relevant to our day today life is not affected by those irrelevant details.

As an adult, as a Secular thinker, I am interested in history.. I ask simple questions like who authored these magnificent mythologies: historians say it's Great Vyasa and Great Valmiki. Believers may learn totally different things from these ancient books. It's their Civil Right!

Having said this, let me state that there are some Hindus who have chosen to do all kinds of studies to establish that such a person like Rama and Krishna lived in this earth.

For anyone to take a strong position either way on such matters, I would expect that they have done research and have facts to back up their position. Such would be the expectation in a place of research since making claims without facts means one loses credibility quickly. I am sure as a scientist you understand this point. I know this may be a fun discussion and taking strong position enhances a debate. But I would wait and watch before taking strong position without facts

I have talked to Professors of History and Language in major Universities (Madurai & Madras University) who said that these ancient stories - MB & RY are FICTIONS, and no character lived in flesh and blood. Maybe, they are wrong, maybe not. My full understanding is they ARE FICTIONS, period. You may disagree and that's fine.

There is another reason I would never take a strong position on such topics. If birthday [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]celebrations[/FONT][/FONT] are happening every year for Rama and Krishna in millions of household it might be considered tad insensitive to tell them that they are celebrating the[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]birthday[/FONT][/FONT] of an imaginary character. Often non-Hindus who are steeped in biblical religions (not Judaism which is an exception in my mind and is a gentle religion) and often groomed with intolerance at young age usually speak of traditions of others with disrespect. I know as a self proclaimed Atheist you dont want to be mistaken to be projecting those thinking especially since you were raised in a nonHindu family.

This Thread is about RY and MB explained in a modern business context. Will this (a Business context per se) not an inappropriate idea to those Believers in the first place?

It is admirable that you did well in you college tests
Getting the essence of any story is hard in my view. It is irrelevant again that many Hindus may think of Rama and Krishna as forms of God (note the plural in Forms and not in God )

The stories written for young children in middle school by Rajaji is captivating. Many adults have enjoyed Rajaji's narration of Ramayana and Mahabharata.

With years of experience in life as a lens, I thought you may be able to abstract the key learning by reading such a story book now and I am sure it is likely to be very different from the kind of summary you understood as a college kid. There is no spin or points of view in Rajaji's books as far as I know.

I knew of Rajaji as a Political Leader (as per what he wrote in his "Swarajya"). I did not know that he wrote interesting story books for children! I don't have very young ones now, mine are adults (27, 22) already. I may spread the word, anyway.

Regards"

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

So???What is the big deal?Anyone can give their opinion whether inbox or outbox in location.
It was not as if Vyasa and Valmiki were your professors.

Yes, my professors were not Vyasa and Valmiki! For they are dead and gone about 2000 years ago!!

I am not a bee to draw nectar from these ancient FICTIONAL mythologies! ROFL.. then LOL!

Take care.



ps. There are many Secular Thinkers in this Forum... please avoid reading their posts! A simple suggestion!

 

[tks]

Dr.tks: Ref post 11

My response in bold letters below -

"Dr Y -

Unlike biblical religion that you are exposed to Hindu tradition does not place emphasis on history at all. Vyasa may not be a real person and it is irrelevant. It might be a family name and the epic may have been written over generations. We don't care.[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]Krishna[/FONT][/FONT] may have been a historical person or purely a presentation as Bhagavan by Vysa. We dont care since the teaching that is relevant to our day today life is not affected by those irrelevant details.

As an adult, as a Secular thinker, I am interested in history.. I ask simple questions like who authored these magnificent mythologies: historians say it's Great Vyasa and Great Valmiki. Believers may learn totally different things from these ancient books. It's their Civil Right!

Having said this, let me state that there are some Hindus who have chosen to do all kinds of studies to establish that such a person like Rama and Krishna lived in this earth.

For anyone to take a strong position either way on such matters, I would expect that they have done research and have facts to back up their position. Such would be the expectation in a place of research since making claims without facts means one loses credibility quickly. I am sure as a scientist you understand this point. I know this may be a fun discussion and taking strong position enhances a debate. But I would wait and watch before taking strong position without facts

I have talked to Professors of History and Language in major Universities (Madurai & Madras University) who said that these ancient stories - MB & RY are FICTIONS, and no character lived in flesh and blood. Maybe, they are wrong, maybe not. My full understanding is they ARE FICTIONS, period. You may disagree and that's fine.

There is another reason I would never take a strong position on such topics. If birthday [FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]celebrations[/FONT][/FONT] are happening every year for Rama and Krishna in millions of household it might be considered tad insensitive to tell them that they are celebrating the[FONT=inherit !important][FONT=inherit !important]birthday[/FONT][/FONT] of an imaginary character. Often non-Hindus who are steeped in biblical religions (not Judaism which is an exception in my mind and is a gentle religion) and often groomed with intolerance at young age usually speak of traditions of others with disrespect. I know as a self proclaimed Atheist you dont want to be mistaken to be projecting those thinking especially since you were raised in a nonHindu family.

This Thread is about RY and MB explained in a modern business context. Will this (a Business context per se) not an inappropriate idea to those Believers in the first place?

It is admirable that you did well in you college tests
Getting the essence of any story is hard in my view. It is irrelevant again that many Hindus may think of Rama and Krishna as forms of God (note the plural in Forms and not in God )

The stories written for young children in middle school by Rajaji is captivating. Many adults have enjoyed Rajaji's narration of Ramayana and Mahabharata.

With years of experience in life as a lens, I thought you may be able to abstract the key learning by reading such a story book now and I am sure it is likely to be very different from the kind of summary you understood as a college kid. There is no spin or points of view in Rajaji's books as far as I know.

I knew of Rajaji as a Political Leader (as per what he wrote in his "Swarajya"). I did not know that he wrote interesting story books for children! I don't have very young ones now, mine are adults (27, 22) already. I may spread the word, anyway.

Regards"

Cheers.

Ramayana and Mahabharatha are not historical documents. They are poems - MB has about 100000 verses and is the largest poem in the world. A set of universal truths are presented in the context of a story. The figures may or may not be historical figures - any claim of any kind without facts means they are believers of some kind. Since successful management and leadership is dependent on universal truths these epics can provide interesting source materials. Since you were trying to characterize the content of these epics I suggested that you see if you are able to discern the central theme based on universal principles. For that I suggested to read a story book - there is no need to spread the word

 

[sangom]

Rama was most likely a tribal hero or chieftain who was very popular among the non-vedic (non-aryan, if that usage is permissible) people of the north India. When the aryans with their caste (varna) system of society came to realize first that the sub-continent extended southwards beyond their imagined "AryAvarta", beyond the Vindhyas, and that people looking very different from themselves (the Aryans) lived there as comfortably as they themselves were doing, there must have been sufficient impetus to spread and conquer those southern areas. In order to give sufficient impetus and moral courage (like what the cheerleaders probably do today in football games) somebody composed the Ramayana to show that the Aryan kshatriya Rama could trounce the great Ravan (who, again, was yet another highly respected persona of those hoary days) who, probably was from the non-Aryan populace.

The relevance of Ravan worship even today may be seen from:

Ravana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hence, Ramayana betrays an Aryan—non-Aryan divide, imho, as Bishop Caldwell probably guessed correctly.

Mahabharata (MB) on the other hand is a product of the imagination of many authors and its main theme is a huge fratricidal war. I have read that this was composed when a certain king was being troubled by his own relative rulers of adjacent territories but thought that to wage war with his own paternal cousins would be a sin. In order to convince him that there is no wrong in such a war and, further, that this has the express sanction of the Supreme Godhead itself, BG was included in it in a abridged form.

To read management theories from Ramayana and MB has to be taken on the same way as reading forecasts from the Raamasalaaka alphabetic columns by people who are devotees of "Ram Charit Manas". A harmless pastime as long as it does not make the believer into a pauper!

 

[Yamaka]

Rama was most likely a tribal hero or chieftain who was very popular among the non-vedic (non-aryan, if that usage is permissible) people of the north India. When the aryans with their caste (varna) system of society came to realize first that the sub-continent extended southwards beyond their imagined "AryAvarta", beyond the Vindhyas, and that people looking very different from themselves (the Aryans) lived there as comfortably as they themselves were doing, there must have been sufficient impetus to spread and conquer those southern areas. In order to give sufficient impetus and moral courage (like what the cheerleaders probably do today in football games) somebody composed the Ramayana to show that the Aryan kshatriya Rama could trounce the great Ravan (who, again, was yet another highly respected persona of those hoary days) who, probably was from the non-Aryan populace.

The relevance of Ravan worship even today may be seen from:

Ravana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hence, Ramayana betrays an Aryan—non-Aryan divide, imho, as Bishop Caldwell probably guessed correctly.

Mahabharata (MB) on the other hand is a product of the imagination of many authors and its main theme is a huge fratricidal war. I have read that this was composed when a certain king was being troubled by his own relative rulers of adjacent territories but thought that to wage war with his own paternal cousins would be a sin. In order to convince him that there is no wrong in such a war and, further, that this has the express sanction of the Supreme Godhead itself, BG was included in it in a abridged form.

To read management theories from Ramayana and MB has to be taken on the same way as reading forecasts from the Raamasalaaka alphabetic columns by people who are devotees of "Ram Charit Manas". A harmless pastime as long as it does not make the believer into a pauper!

Dear Sangom:

As a Non-Believer of God and Religion, I fully agree with your view on RY and MB.

For Valmiki to know and to spin the character of Rama, many tribal chieftains lived at that time, and could have fought mini-wars like Rama did, in real life. These chieftains were REAL people, perhaps. But the character of Rama may be fully FICTIONAL. All the handiwork of the Great Poet Valmiki.

Like the character Raavan explained by Ace Director Mani Ratnam in his movie Raavanan a year or two ago..

Yes, I agree MB may be a product of the IMAGINATION of many authors including the Great Vyasa, and the theme is FRATRICIDAL WAR.

Your concluding line, "A harmless pastime as long as it does not make the Believer into a pauper" is indeed fascinating...

Regards

Y