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Question regarding Classical Tamizh

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zebra16

Well-known member
When I am reading classical pure Tamil I often see where a word has an extra letter (a dotted consonant) and it is always the consonant that begins the next word. What is the point / meaning of this grammar?

Thank you for you input and help in my education.

Sincerely,
Sankara

If you type out the tamil word or at least the itrans variety it would be helpful.
My guess is you are meaning words like amma, (pronounced am-ma, emphasis on m, denoted by placing the dot on the alphabet m appearing the first time, sort of doubling the pronunciation of "m"),

Similarly appa (pronounced ap-pah), patti (pronounced paatti). In these two cases the emphasis of doubling of the constant is done on the alphabet p and t respectively.

Sri Nara Sir has typed out plenty of tamizh passages in the thread self respect movement or in many of tamizh postings of Mrs. Raji Ram the tamizh you may have noted the occurrence. If you copy+paste such tamizh words here, it would be easy for me/us to understand and clarify it for you.
 
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BostonSankara

BostonSankara

New member
Hi Zebra,

I don't mean within a word rather between words. For exampl in the Skanda Shasti Kavacham we have :

sashtiyai nokkas saravanabavanar

Why is their a dotted s at the end of nOkka? or

pAtham yirandil panmanis sathangkai

That's what I mean. Hope that makes sense. I can't type in tamil. :-\
 
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nalanda

Member
Hello Bostonsankara,
I have found that on google, one can go to transliterate and type in english click the language of your choice and it will appear in tamil.
good luck
nalanda
 
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BostonSankara

BostonSankara

New member
None of that seems to work so I had to screenshot it.

See the first and 3rd lines in the picture attached for example.
KAVACHAM EXAMPLE.JPG

I seem to only see this in old Tamil.

Thanks!
Sankara
 

ozone

Active member
Hi Zebra,

I don't mean within a word rather between words. For exampl in the Skanda Shasti Kavacham we have :

sashtiyai nokkas saravanabavanar

Why is their a dotted s at the end of nOkka? or

pAtham yirandil panmanis sathangkai

That's what I mean. Hope that makes sense. I can't type in tamil. :-\

Dear Sankara,
the repeat you see help in continuity as if they are recited without a pause.
So half part of the starting letter is recited with the ending of the previous word and the other half
is recited with the next word and it produces a stress. (s + s = S)
I recommend you follow it along with listening to a vocal rendering (such as Sulamangalam Sisters).

(I am not sure I am able to articulate)
 
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BostonSankara

BostonSankara

New member
Dear Ozone,

Thanks! I have their rendition on CD. This makes great sense.

-
Sankara

Dear Sankara,
the repeat you see help in continuity as if they are recited without a pause.
So half part of the starting letter is recited with the ending of the previous word and the other half
is recited with the next word and it produces a stress. (s + s = S)
I recommend you follow it along with listening to a vocal rendering (such as Sulamangalam Sisters).

(I am not sure I am able to articulate)
 

sarma-61

New member
When I am reading classical pure Tamil I often see where a word has an extra letter (a dotted consonant) and it is always the consonant that begins the next word. What is the point / meaning of this grammar?

Thank you for you input and help in my education.

Sincerely,
Sankara

Shri sankara sir,

In Tamizh, even today, when speaking, the first consonant is "doubled" and attached to the end of the previous word. (I will try to find out the grammatical basis for this.) For example சக்தியை நோக்கி சரவணபவனார் is not spoken in that way but as சக்தியை நோக்கிச்சரவணபவனார், with the ச sound doubled. In older palm leaves and all you will find that this is mostly written continuously. But with the advent of printing and magazines, a convention seems to have come into vogue showing the constituent words separately but with the semi-consonant ச் attached to the previous word. Some more examples follow:

அஞ்சு மணிக்கு போகணும் is actually spoken as அஞ்சு மணிக்குப்போகணும் and this is printed/written as அஞ்சு மணிக்குப் போகணும் (have to go at 5'O clock.)

சுட்டி பெண் என்று பெயர் எடுத்தாள் ( சுட்டிப்பெண் என்று பெயர் எடுத்தாள் - சுட்டிப் பெண் என்று பெயர் எடுத்தாள்) earned a name as a clever girl

வேறு விஷயங்களை கவனிக்கலாம் ( வேறு விஷயங்களைக் கவனிக்கலாம்) Let us look into other topics.

ரொம்ப சுட்டி (very smart) ரொம்பச்சுட்டி > ரொம்பச் சுட்டி
etc.
 
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BostonSankara

BostonSankara

New member
Wow! Sri Sarma Ji! That is just going above and beyond. Thank you so much!


Shri sankara sir,

In Tamizh, even today, when speaking, the first consonant is "doubled" and attached to the end of the previous word. (I will try to find out the grammatical basis for this.) For example சக்தியை நோக்கி சரவணபவனார் is not spoken in that way but as சக்தியை நோக்கிச்சரவணபவனார், with the ச sound doubled. In older palm leaves and all you will find that this is mostly written continuously. But with the advent of printing and magazines, a convention seems to have come into vogue showing the constituent words separately but with the semi-consonant ச் attached to the previous word. Some more examples follow:

அஞ்சு மணிக்கு போகணும் is actually spoken as அஞ்சு மணிக்குப்போகணும் and this is printed/written as அஞ்சு மணிக்குப் போகணும் (have to go at 5'O clock.)

சுட்டி பெண் என்று பெயர் எடுத்தாள் ( சுட்டிப்பெண் என்று பெயர் எடுத்தாள் - சுட்டிப் பெண் என்று பெயர் எடுத்தாள்) earned a name as a clever girl

வேறு விஷயங்களை கவனிக்கலாம் ( வேறு விஷயங்களைக் கவனிக்கலாம்) Let us look into other topics.

ரொம்ப சுட்டி (very smart) ரொம்பச்சுட்டி > ரொம்பச் சுட்டி
etc.
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sankara,

The in between மெய்யெழுத்து is based on pure grammar. Wide reading and knowledge of Tamil is needed

to use them correctly, because there are lot of exceptions!!

I shall try to give a some basic details.

There are three varieties of உயிர்
மெய்யெழுத்துக்கள்.

க ச ட த ப ற - வல்லினம் (strong)
ங ஞ ண ந ம ன - மெல்லினம் (light)
ய ர ல வ ழ ள - இடையினம் (in between)

Words do not start with ற, ங, ண, ன, ழ and ள.

We normally use மெய்யெழுத்து before the words that start with வல்லினம்.

அந்தக் கட்டை, அந்தச் சட்டை, அந்தப் பட்டை, அந்தத் தட்டை,

அந்தக் கிளி, அந்தச் சீடன், அந்தப் பீடம், அந்தத் தும்பி etc.

Before the words starting in மெல்லினம் and இடையினம் no need to add மெய்யெழுத்து.

அந்த ஞாயிறு, அந்த நாடு, அந்த மான்,

அந்த யானை, அந்த ரம்பம், அந்த லாடம், அந்த வீடு etc

For words ending in ண், ம், ன், ர் and ள், there is no need to add மெய்யெழுத்து.


பண் பாடினாள், படம் பார்த்தான், அவன் கணித்தான், இடர் களைந்தான், அவள் தூண்டினாள் etc.

For words ending in ய் and ழ் மெய்யெழுத்து is added.

Eg. மெய்ப் பொருள், தாய்ப் பாசம்,
யாழ்ப் பெட்டி

ல் and
ம் change as this:

கடல் + கன்னி = கடற் கன்னி
உடல் + கட்டு = உடற் கட்டு
நிறம் + சட்டை = நிறச் சட்டை
மரம் + கன்று = மரக் கன்று
பணம் +
ட்டு = பணக் ட்டு

Tamil is a tricky language. See these words now :

துண்டுத் துணிகள்; இரண்டு துணிகள்...... One has 'த்' added whereas the other one dose not have.

You have to read a lot and observe! Best wishes. :thumb:

 
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BostonSankara

BostonSankara

New member
Oh My! Can you believe that people claim that Organic Chemistry is a difficult subject? Tamizh can make one's head swim!!! I am making a commitment to study Tamil language for at least 45 minutes to an hour a day for the entire summer (and hopefully longer)

90% of the humor on this site is in Tamil and that only leaves me with heavy subjects and atheism to contend with!!!
:-D I must learn Tamil so I can laugh along too!

Hi Sankara! Where are you? :director:
 

KRS

Well-known member
Dear Sri BostonSankara Ji,

My late wife who was a Jewish American tried to pick up Tamil; she was a linguist and was fluent in several languages - Russian, Serbo-Croation, French, Italian, Spanish and German. Not to frighten you, but she gave up on mastering Tamil after attempts that lasted over three years. But I must tell you that her love for me did not extend beyond my culture in to the language. She thought that Tamil was inordinately difficult. But, please don't lose heart :)

Regards,
KRS
Oh My! Can you believe that people claim that Organic Chemistry is a difficult subject? Tamizh can make one's head swim!!! I am making a commitment to study Tamil language for at least 45 minutes to an hour a day for the entire summer (and hopefully longer)

90% of the humor on this site is in Tamil and that only leaves me with heavy subjects and atheism to contend with!!!
:-D I must learn Tamil so I can laugh along too!
 

Raji Ram

Gold Member
Gold Member
Dear Sankara,

Please master the language and read my Tamil threads in Literature section. Now, you are missing a lot of fun!!

Best wishes... :)
 
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