Primary responsibility for elder care

[tks]

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One of the most challenging problems in today's world seem to be taking care of aging parents.

I am interested to know the current thinking and trend in this area.

Few decades ago, if a family had both sons and daughters, the son(s) used to own the responsibility to arrange for care of their aging parents. The daughters may help when possible but the main responsibility was borne by the son(s).

If a family did not have sons or son is away as NRI daughters may have pitched in.

Are sons still viewed as primary care planners for the parents?

 

[krish44]

basically the mindset remains the same . the expectation is son should take care . in case of more than one son , the parents are shuttled between homes of sons

normally if the if boys are NRIs etc, still girls do not take responsibility as they feel their inlaws would mind it

But in some single girl families , they attempt to absorb them in their families due to property which they can get later .

in case of career girls , some try to keep their parents in preference to inlaws as a matter of right

recent trend is retirement homes . many big players like Tatas , Brigade group are moving in with luxury retirement homes while cheaper low cost single room ,1 or2 bhk are also available

 

[vaithehi]

it is one of the bane of western way of following

 

[sarang]

There was an article by Gurumurthy couple of months ago on this topic. He was comparing obamacare and the hindu system and how the burden on the state will sink it. Gurumurthy has written several articles on the hindu value systems which are family based with min intervention of or help from state.

 

[vgane]

It is responsibility of both son and daughter now...Both are equal partners as per law..So it behoves on both the sexes to take care of the elders in the family

 

[krish44]

sarangji
Is the article by gurumurthy couple available anywhere .could you post the link .
This will make discussion possible

There is a strong need for state intervention for elder care. in india social security is non existent . there may be paltry old age pensions

I know good indian families with men in decent jobs after retirement having a poor quality of life after spending on daughters marriages and education of both.boys and girls

unlike the uS , where it is estimated men after retirement at ages over 60yrs are able to retain as retirement corpus about 80 percent of pre retirement monthly earnings as post retirement income. they are well off . Since hindu families take extra responsibilities of marriage and higher level of education of children are in poor shape
.
it is just not possible to have own house , fulfilling children needs and also live decently after retirement . this is the harsh truth for many

 

[vgane]

Earlier in case of parents with only daughters they used to have an elaborate sweekaram function wherein some grandon or sister/brother son is adopted ..All the wealth used to be given to that sweekara boy..Nowadays with prudence this is being avoided by parents by them so that their daughters can be given the wealth and at the same time they can get the care of them..If daughters are allowing the parents to languish they are also equally responsible

 

[krish44]

Earlier in case of parents with only daughters they used to have an elaborate sweekaram function wherein some grandon or sister/brother son is adopted ..All the wealth used to be given to that sweekara boy..Nowadays with prudence this is being avoided by parents by them so that their daughters can be given the wealth and at the same time they can get the care of them..If daughters are allowing the parents to languish they are also equally responsible

this puts extra responsibility on single girl family girls as they may have take care of both parents

and inlaws . I have a niece who is a working lady supporting four senior citizens 3 over 80 and

one in seventies .in addition to her two kids

Due to The sheer pressure of this , she looks twice her age

 

[Raji Ram]

......... Are sons still viewed as primary care planners for the parents?

If parents have son / sons.

But not always, because the daughter-in-law is the law maker and might say equal responsibility for both son and daughter.
'orE kallula rendu mAngAy'! She can help her parents and also get 50% (or + ) off in taking care of in-laws!! eace:

 

[Raji Ram]

this puts extra responsibility on single girl family girls as they may have take care of both parents

and inlaws . I have a niece who is a working lady supporting four senior citizens 3 over 80 and

one in seventies .in addition to her two kids

Due to The sheer pressure of this , she looks twice her age

Reminds me of this incident:

We were discussing about some 'pazhamozhi's; one of them was 'EvA makkaL moovA marundhu!', which means

children who do the work without being told is the medicine for not getting old! My five year old son retorted,

'vElai senju senju, avA ellAm old AyiduvA!' How very true!

 

[krish44]

If parents have son / sons.

But not always, because the daughter-in-law is the law maker and might say equal responsibility for both son and daughter.
'orE kallula rendu mAngAy'! She can help her parents and also get 50% (or + ) off in taking care of in-laws!! eace:

this may lead to house shuttling parents in law .A bad tamil nadu family tradition practised by sons.I get furious when ladies operate like this.

there is another option exercised . one son financially supports the parents , the other physically supports as he is not financially well off . this is a slightly better option . in a family when one is a NRI and the other in India , this model is prevalent.

in case the second happens to be a daughter instead of son in india , only retirement home option gets exercised.

one interesting option , the parents buy a big house , flat and keep the son and daughter in law free with them .

in this option , financially the parents motivate the son -daughter inlaw to stay with them . it is economics ultimately. this is not a bad option as in any case the property has to go to children on demise .

there are variations to it two flats alongside each other with or without common kitchen , with doors separating giving space to both . all this require some money .and a heart .

not many are large hearted enough . I mean both the parents and the children

 

[tks]

The burden for middle class families in the absence of 'old joint family' concept is significant it seems. It is especially tough to provide care by anyone for a older person who begins to behave like a child (and entering 'second childhood' .. ).

If the old person is not independent (meaning they mess up the house they live in like a baby without diapers), and Alzheimer begins to take hold it is terrible. The nursing home option may not be feasible (due to cost). In home care may cost also ( I have no idea of this cost these days).

If two people are working and raising a family and also have to take care of an elderly person who has become a child it must be bad for all. I know of a family where new rules are being put in by 'daughter in law' (in line with astute observation by Mrs RR) who is suggesting that the old person be shipped to USA where NRI daughter lives !

We are all walking towards old age. I am not sure what would be a sensible plan. Becoming Sannyasi is an option but these days there are too many in Swami business LoL

 

[renuka]

Out here in Malaysia..this problem hardly arises..most parents live on their own or with son or daughter or the child who is nearby them tends to their needs.

My FIL stays with his younger son in one of my husbands houses(which he bought for his parents to stay).

My parents live just 15 minutes away from me and I tend to their needs.

My brother visits them every week(he stays 1 hour away from their home).

Out here we can hardly find educated families that do not look after their aged parents...sons and daughters share the responsibility to look after their parents.

 

[vgane]

Out here in Malaysia..this problem hardly arises..most parents live on their own or with son or daughter or the child who is nearby them tends to their needs.

My FIL stays with his younger son in one of my husbands houses(which he bought for his parents to stay).

My parents live just 15 minutes away from me and I tend to their needs.

My brother visits them every week(he stays 1 hour away from their home).

Out here we can hardly find educated families that do not look after their aged parents...sons and daughters share the responsibility to look after their parents.

This is far better than leaving the family in the lurch...We do find in Chennai & other places where elders are left in old aged homes without any proper care!

 

[renuka]

This is far better than leaving the family in the lurch...We do find in Chennai & other places where elders are left in old aged homes without any proper care!

Here the country is too small..if any educated person abandons their parents no one will respect them and that will be the talk of the town.

 

[krish44]

The burden for middle class families in the absence of 'old joint family' concept is significant it seems. It is especially tough to provide care by anyone for a older person who begins to behave like a child (and entering 'second childhood' .. ).

If the old person is not independent (meaning they mess up the house they live in like a baby without diapers), and Alzheimer begins to take hold it is terrible. The nursing home option may not be feasible (due to cost). In home care may cost also ( I have no idea of this cost these days).

If two people are working and raising a family and also have to take care of an elderly person who has become a child it must be bad for all. I know of a family where new rules are being put in by 'daughter in law' (in line with astute observation by Mrs RR) who is suggesting that the old person be shipped to USA where NRI daughter lives !

We are all walking towards old age. I am not sure what would be a sensible plan. Becoming Sannyasi is an option but these days there are too many in Swami business LoL

it is not that the working couple cannot support parents financially

.they are just mean and not have the heart to support .

they can always hire some help who are very much available . they start talking of caste and

religion of the helper beside his hygiene and things like that to evade responsibility .



abroad for any abuse they have strict laws . often indian couples land into trouble for child abuse

. for elders , some laws are there for forcing support but they are on paper only in india

becoming sanyasi is no option . sanyasis also become old sanyasis and require support .lol

 

[krish44]

Here the country is too small..if any educated person abandons their parents no one will respect them and that will be the talk of the town.

you know renukaji
this issue started only because of career oriented TB girls not wanting to take responsibility of

supporting parents of the boy and also thinking of them as baggages to be dumped .

This has often the support of girls parents who egg them on often saying parents of boy to be kept at a distance

I know some parents who are not well off who are deserted by sons after marriage to career types .there are even housewives who push out boys parents

it is sad . the atmosphere in tamilnadu is vicious .

you are all well off abroad

my suggestion to NRI senior citizens , your country of stay has better laws and conventions . stay off south india for your own good. old age is not to be spent here for sentimental reasons

 

[Raji Ram]

Many sons / daughters are ready to shell out some money to keep off their parents / in-laws! As long as the parents are independent,

they will have a dignified life! Once the 'bhavati bhikshAm dhEhi' starts, the agony also starts! Parent who enthusiastically relocate to

the U S of A, when the grandchildren are kids, feel miserable like house arrested, when the kids grow up and do not depend on them!

The health insurance plans are very expensive and so are treatments! They feel like 'iru thalaik koLLi eRumbu', that is, the ant on a

stick which burns at both ends! A few parents have shifted back to India to spend the rest of their lives just because they feel jobless
in the U S of A, when the grand kids are grown-ups! They can never drive a car and are really in a helpless state. :help:

 

[Raji Ram]

The rates per month, for taking care of bed ridden oldies in Sing. Chennai is Rs. 10,000/- + food / Rs. 5,000/ for eating out.

The maid won't help in the kitchen or any other household chores. They sit in the patient's room (enjoy the AC if available)

and ask for TV time in the evening!

Terminally ill patients are taken care of for a monthly charge of Rs. 10,000/ at a few hospice, which provide the essential

furniture and diet for the patients. It also includes maintenance of the room and laundry.

 

[renuka]

you know renukaji
this issue started only because of career oriented TB girls not wanting to take responsibility of

supporting parents of the boy and also thinking of them as baggages to be dumped .

This has often the support of girls parents who egg them on often saying parents of boy to be kept at a distance

I know some parents who are not well off who are deserted by sons after marriage to career types .there are even housewives who push out boys parents

it is sad . the atmosphere in tamilnadu is vicious .

you are all well off abroad

my suggestion to NRI senior citizens , your country of stay has better laws and conventions . stay off south india for your own good. old age is not to be spent here for sentimental reasons

What has got career got to do with taking care of the elderly?

Out here many people dont mind having an elder in the house so that they can keep a watch on the activities of the maid but mostly the elder ladies and the live in maids end up fighting!LOL

Elders have a good time here cos they dont have to do any work at home cos there is a live in maid and they just supervise what needs to be done.

I have a female doc friend who took care of her MIL who had cancer and also shared the cancer treatment cost and took care of her MIL right up to certifying her dead when her MIL died at home..she managed all these while still working 12 hours day in her own private practice(she had a maid to do the rest of the work at home)

So you see I dont think its being career oriented but its just that if we really want to do it or not.

But out here in laws are less meddling unlike India so may be girls in India are afraid of meddling in laws. Further more most people never leave the country for a job abroad..(only some nut cases do!LOL)..so parents are never alone.

 

[krish44]

Many sons / daughters are ready to shell out some money to keep off their parents / in-laws! As long as the parents are independent,

they will have a dignified life! Once the 'bhavati bhikshAm dhEhi' starts, the agony also starts! Parent who enthusiastically relocate to

the U S of A, when the grandchildren are kids, feel miserable like house arrested, when the kids grow up and do not depend on them!

The health insurance plans are very expensive and so are treatments! They feel like 'iru thalaik koLLi eRumbu', that is, the ant on a

stick which burns at both ends! A few parents have shifted back to India to spend the rest of their lives just because they feel jobless
in the U S of A, when the grand kids are grown-ups! They can never drive a car and are really in a helpless state. :help:[/QUOTE
RRJi
what you say might be correct .

Once one is dependent there is a price to pay
.
If grandparents have shifted to be baby sitters they can face idleness when the kids grow up

medicare can be expensive .

but the feeling of helplessness and being locked up -helpless one faces every where if one is old

and is on semi assisted or assisted living

isssue is where do you want to be helpless -near your children abroad or in your country of birth

far away .
in fact devil or deep sea option .

in india these people would not have anyone to fall back on other than relatives -sometimes

distant relatives

this puts pressure on relatives .

I have a case like this . one parent -mother died in retirement home in india suddenly . Daughter

abroad is prepared to give money but not prepared to take father in eighties abroad . She wants

relatives to take care of him. . the relatives are equally reluctant .These are typical cases from

real people .

this issue would have never arisen if the old parents had stayed abroad with daughter from

beginning and not moved away

once the younger lot shrug of responsibility , why should they be inclined to support again

.they will find excuses and try to push their parents to relatives ,

It is not wise to stay away from them .if one is staying ,best is to stay put and find ways to

cope abroad instead of india

when one has stayed for a long time abroad , one adjusts to the place .no sense in getting

back to an uncertain future

 

[krish44]

What has got career got to do with taking care of the elderly?

Out here many people dont mind having an elder in the house so that they can keep a watch on the activities of the maid but mostly the elder ladies and the live in maids end up fighting!LOL

Elders have a good time here cos they dont have to do any work at home cos there is a live in maid and they just supervise what needs to be done.

I have a female doc friend who took care of her MIL who had cancer and also shared the cancer treatment cost and took care of her MIL right up to certifying her dead when her MIL died at home..she managed all these while still working 12 hours day in her own private practice(she had a maid to do the rest of the work at home)

So you see I dont think its being career oriented but its just that if we really want to do it or not.

But out here in laws are less meddling unlike India so may be girls in India are afraid of meddling in laws. Further more most people never leave the country for a job abroad..(only some nut cases do!LOL)..so parents are never alone.

It is sensible to leave kids with live in maid and parents who can oversee .

It is good for the kids and parents

career oriented girls among TB get indoctrinated with set ideas of inlaws tutored by girls mother or sibling. they develop a harmful mindset

some career women overcome their prejudices and make a good working relationship with MIL . it happens mostly in case where MIL has been a working woman and learnt to give space to daughter in law for a career and is prepared to oversee at least part of housework .or maid looking after kids . they relate well in these relationship.

Meddling is on account of both MIL and DIL fighting for affection of son . when daughters have to go on tours on work , parents in law should be prepared to standin and keep the home fires burning with the help of maid. very complicated , the whole thing . not easy for most to comprehend .

 

[krish44]

The rates per month, for taking care of bed ridden oldies in Sing. Chennai is Rs. 10,000/- + food / Rs. 5,000/ for eating out.

The maid won't help in the kitchen or any other household chores. They sit in the patient's room (enjoy the AC if available)

and ask for TV time in the evening!

Terminally ill patients are taken care of for a monthly charge of Rs. 10,000/ at a few hospice, which provide the essential

furniture and diet for the patients. It also includes maintenance of the room and laundry.

good info for people going for south indian option

 

[sarang]

Preserve Indian Value system; matru, pitru devo bhava.

Noted columnist S Gurumurthy on Saturday emphasised the need to preserve the Indian value system, saying it inculcated the habit of saving, which helped the economy maintain a healthy growth rate and stave off crises that singed other global economies.

Speaking at the 15th national conference of Karuna Clubs at the AM Jain College here, he said: “It must be noted that hardly two per cent of the total capital needed for infrastructure development in India, which was pegged at over a trillion dollars by Goldman Sachs, has come by way of foreign investment.”

The US is forced to spend more on the welfare of senior citizens, abandoned by their children, and fragmented families with single parents. “This puts the onus of welfare of senior citizens on the government. However, in India, it is the families, and not politicians or educational institutions, that are responsible for fostering such values,” he added.

He also pointed out that the Indian value system lays stress on treating women, elders and teachers with respect. “Gender equality was not an issue to be worried about as women were always treated with respect,’’ he noted.
Articles

sarangji
Is the article by gurumurthy couple available anywhere .could you post the link .

 

[krish44]

thanks sarang ji . the post is under what head of what date in the link.