Pity the nation

[Nara]

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so it is best, that we do not compare ourselves to china.

I pity a nation that looks to Pakistan and China to justify its own standards of free speech and liberty.

 

[sangom]

I pity a nation that looks to Pakistan and China to justify its own standards of free speech and liberty.

Dear Shri Nara,

Unlimited freedom for speech and action is not allowed even by the most liberal countries, I think. Just as the survival instinct is the most powerful in living beings, the instinct for survival as a nation is supreme in any constitution. If some one who is a member of that constitution, who is supposed to be mentally fit, talks things which may prove harmful to the very interests of the country, then the freedom for such speech should not be allowed.

As I said above, mentally unsound persons can say anything, including abuses but most probably others will avoid such persons. Now GOI has decided, it seems, to ignore AR and her speech. Apart from Kashmir, she also said, it is seen, "bhookhe nange hindustaani" to refer to Indians, which is outright insult of all Indians. Do we not have the right to call upon her to answer for this?

 

[Nara]

Dear Shri Sangom, Greetings!

....Unlimited freedom for speech and action is not allowed even by the most liberal countries, I think.

I addressed this in my post #12 as follows:

" Outside of speech that directly incites violence or directly causes panic and pandemonium -- like shouting fire in a crowded theater -- there is nothing called abusing the freedom of speech."
​

Freedom of speech is indeed not an unlimited freedom. To draw a line between allowed speech and prohibited speech, I do pity the nation that wants to point to countries like Pakistan and China to justify their actions.

Just as the survival instinct is the most powerful in living beings, the instinct for survival as a nation is supreme in any constitution. If some one who is a member of that constitution, who is supposed to be mentally fit, talks things which may prove harmful to the very interests of the country, then the freedom for such speech should not be allowed.

Each nation gets to decide where to draw this line. I do pity the nation that has sedition laws in their books and are willing to use or even threaten to use these laws like only a despot would do.

As I said above, mentally unsound persons can say anything, including abuses but most probably others will avoid such persons. Now GOI has decided, it seems, to ignore AR and her speech. Apart from Kashmir, she also said, it is seen, "bhookhe nange hindustaani" to refer to Indians, which is outright insult of all Indians. Do we not have the right to call upon her to answer for this?

I don't know Hindi, I don't know what this means. Anyway, let me emphasize, I am not here to defend every last word that comes out her mouth or pen, even though she does to speak to my values most of the times. But, I strongly believe a nation that wants to be known as a democracy (the biggest!) must be prepared stomach some insults. For instance, flag burning is considered very insulting to a nation, and it is protected speech in the U.S.

For her pointed criticisms she does get challenged. In the last few days she has been roundly criticized by one and all -- ad hominum a plenty. All this is well and good, even though ad hominems point to intellectual bankruptcy, but that is not illegal. Arundhati must endure all these verbal attacks. If she can't stand the heat, she needs to stay away from such debates.

But, the government has no business muzzling her political speech. The legal system must not allow frivolous law suites to be brought against her by anybody, like that BJP politician from Ranchi. The enormous power of the state must be used to protect speech, not to curtail it. Antidote to bad speech is not less speech, but more.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

I don't know Hindi, I don't know what this means.

Shri Nara,

Sorry, I forgot to give the translation; it means "hungry, naked hindustanis".

 

[RVR]

There is an interesting article by Vir Sangvi in Hindustan times.

No damage to India from Arundhati Roy's remarks - Hindustan Times

Vir Sangvi is a brilliant writer and is presently in the editorial board of Hindustan times.

Vir Sanghvi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ignoring Arundhathi Roy is the best method as suggested by him

All the best

 

[Nara]

BJP activists attack Arundhati Roy's house

The Hindu : News / National : BJP activists attack Arundhati Roy's house

 

[srikrish85]

Well...

Originally Posted by Nara
I pity a nation that looks to Pakistan and China to justify its own standards of free speech and liberty.


Naraji... Free Speech doesn't mean speaking nonsense... Sowbhagyawati A Roy did it. But one question remains... Why is it for our sickulars, pseudo-atheists,Communists, etc... that if a person like Omar Abdallah or any other retard (like MK) makes such a statement... then they ignore it blatantly... why...She will also be ignored... because she is a pseudo secularist (Sickularist)?

 

[kunjuppu]

from vir sanghvi's blog

Vir Sanghvi

i did not know much about him, but apparently he has quite a following.

this particular article above, cited, mostly for how we treat our soldiers, as opposed how it is done in the west. very good lessons for us there, i think.

thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

Well...

Originally Posted by Nara
I pity a nation that looks to Pakistan and China to justify its own standards of free speech and liberty.


Naraji... Free Speech doesn't mean speaking nonsense... Sowbhagyawati A Roy did it. But one question remains... Why is it for our sickulars, pseudo-atheists,Communists, etc... that if a person like Omar Abdallah or any other retard (like MK) makes such a statement... then they ignore it blatantly... why...She will also be ignored... because she is a pseudo secularist (Sickularist)?

sri,

can you not please express yourself without creating those epithets. i think you are weakening your arguments by resorting to something which is distracting from your strengths. also, it is a good habit to deal with fellow members in a polite manner. that will help carry the message better than any name calling.

thank you.

 

[srikrish85]

No no... Please don't take me wrong... I have no intention to hurt Naraji.. I just said about A Roy not our friend Naraji... I think I have to learn the right way of communication... Sorry if I had insulted. I really apologize.

 

[Nara]

No no... Please don't take me wrong... I have no intention to hurt Naraji.. I just said about A Roy not our friend Naraji... I think I have to learn the right way of communication... Sorry if I had insulted. I really apologize.

Sri, I appreciate you apologizing, but I am not clear what you are apologizing for and to whom. All the epithets you used, which you say are about Arundhati, viz., "sickulars, pseudo-atheists,Communists, etc.", could have hurled at me as well and people have done so also. So, if these are fitting for Arundhati, then they fit me also.

Next, you have said, "Sorry if I had insulted. I really apologize." I appreciate you expressing regret, but this is valid only "if you had insulted". Did you insult? If you did, shouldn't you be saying something like, "I insulted and so I am sorry"?

Sri, I don't mind outbursts like these, I usually take it in the stride and move on. I am responding only because you tried to apologize, at least in a backhanded way. I prefer someone to either apologize or stick to your guns, this kind of wishy-washy apology is neither here, nor there , just my thoughts, no need to respond but I request you to think about it.

Free Speech doesn't mean speaking nonsense...

Then what is it? Who decides what is nonsense and what is not? Sri, freedom of speech is the freedom to speak anything you want (some caveats do apply, like inciting violence, etc.). It is the nonsensical speech that needs protection. If we don't protect what we consider as nonsense, sooner or later, what we speak will be labeled nonsensical and curtailed.

best to you my young friend, take care ....

 

[RVR]

The Hindu : News / National : BJP activists attack Arundhati Roy's house

I think Union Home Minister Chidambaram has clarified all the points

Arundhati speech: No action on writer in accordance with law, says Chidambaram

The minister has also clarified that there was no attack on her residence and only demonstrations were conducted by BJP's women wing. He has also assured protection to her if required.

I really appreciate the Government of India for not giving undue publicity to people like Arundhathi Roy who is not at all interested in genocide of four lakhs Kashmiri Pundits and is interested in just getting cheap media publicity.

The State of Jammu Kashmir has six lok sabha seats out of which just three falls in Kashmir valley, two in Jammu region and one in ladakh. There is no problem in both Jammu and Ladakh. Even in Kashmir valley, a democratically elected Government is functioning under the Chief Ministership of Omar Abdullah. Certain fringe groups like Geelaani are inciting violence for their own benefit and they don't have people's interest in mind.

If every border state in India wants Independence, then the country has to continuously split as new border states will be created. We have seen problems in Tamilnadu long back when Dravida Naadu was demanded by the DMK. We have seen Khalistan movement in Punjab. We have seen Assom troubles in the east. Still some eastern states are still in trouble.

In a country of 543 Parlimentary seats, if there is problem in just 3 Parliament seats in a border state, I wish every body leaves the problem to the elected Governments to deal with it. Let us not add further fuel to the fire.

All the best

 

[hoover]

will they tolerate statement from any Akali Dal leader in support of Khalistan. If not then they are certainly psudo secularist and must be lebelled so what is wrong in saying a black stone a black and a white a white. Isnt it hypocracy saying 'we shouldnt say white stone a white one instead of that a 'stone of coulour which is nearabout to that stone whose colour is nearabout white'. It is just waste of energy.

 

[hoover]

If arundhati is not going to get punishment then why all those separetists and terroirsts who ar fighting for 'Freedom' from India including those so called 'saffron terrorist'. and why so much ire on speeches of Bal Thakarey and Raj Thakarey.
Is it not discrimination on basis of status.
Arundhati is pardoned, as she is an elite and celebrity and those separetist and terrorists aides are in jail only due to fact that they are not before camera and media before. Arent these double standerd.
Let all have free speech and moving forward I demand free action!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RVR]

Hoover,

Whenever Congress Party is caught on corruption issue, they immediately try to divert attention and use the bogey `saffron terror;

Now they are caught in both CWG games as well as Adarsh Housing Society Scam in Mumbai. You can expect them to talk about `saffron terror' to divert the attention of the public.

It is pure politics and has no relevance.

All the best

 

[Nara]

Who supports Arundhati

PM MMS's daughter supports Arundhati.

 

[sangom]

PM MMS's daughter supports Arundhati.

She is another one-book (not even wonder) probably seeking some publicity. Bhartruhari or some other intelligent poet said;

EnakEna prakArENa prasiddha: purushO bhavEt |
ghaTam bhitvA paTam chitvA mAtaram praharannapi ||

(By whatever means one tries to (should) become widely known (famous); whether it is by breaking the pots (in public), tearing off one's own clothes or even by beating one's own mother!!)

It looks to me as though AR has opted for the third alternative -figuratively, Bharata mata - above and damansingh is eager for at least the "trickle-down" fame from supporting AR!

 

[RVR]

She is another one-book (not even wonder) probably seeking some publicity. Bhartruhari or some other intelligent poet said;

EnakEna prakArENa prasiddha: purushO bhavEt |
ghaTam bhitvA paTam chitvA mAtaram praharannapi ||

(By whatever means one tries to (should) become widely known (famous); whether it is by breaking the pots (in public), tearing off one's own clothes or even by beating one's own mother!!)

It looks to me as though AR has opted for the third alternative -figuratively, Bharata mata - above and damansingh is eager for at least the "trickle-down" fame from supporting AR!

Sri Sanom Sir,

We are least bothered about the Prime Minister's family. Even a cabinet minister Mamtha Banerjee is supporting Maoists.

BJP Notices | Mamata Lalgarh Rally | Parliament | Maoists Statement | Azad - Oneindia News

When a responsible Railway Minister who is suppose to protect the lives of all Citizens of the county is kept in the Cabinet by the Prime Minister,
there is no use in talking about others.

BBC News - India 'Maoist' train attack kills more than 100

They want the support of Mamta Banerjee's Trinamul Congress for the survival of the Government. Power is the root cause of all the problems and the Congress Party, UPA, Sonia Gandhi and Man Mohan Singh are all party to the miseries of ordinary citizens.

 

[Nara]

....
It looks to me as though AR has opted for the third alternative -figuratively, Bharata mata - above and damansingh is eager for at least the "trickle-down" fame from supporting AR!

Dear Shri sangom, it is really funny to see that only those who say they want to ignore her are in the forefront repeatedly saying "we" don't care, "we are least bothered" etc., etc. It seems BJP and its supporters are the ones who won't let go of this issue. Even a citation about PM's daughter expressing qualfied support for her, brooks such mean-spirited personal attacks against her. All this only shows the very people who keep saying "we are least bothered" are the ones who are most bothered, it makes me laugh.

Thanks ...