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[kunjuppu]

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i thought i had everything that is there to hear about dowry. obviously i haven't.

this appeal came to someone whom we know. from chennai relatives ie the male friend's sister. it involves a daughter who is pushing late twenties, has a sort of dubious or fast record of morals. in short, a rebel, for being rebels sake.

now apparently, the fear of the biological clock ticking, or all those anguishes of parents finally drilled in, there is a match found. the guy likes the girl, and vice versa.

no, he does not know her past, but he lives far away, and they hope this would be of little consequence with the passage of time.

the crux is here: his mother has demanded a watch, which cost: listed at INR 12.5 lakhs, which the folks in chennai have no way to fulfil, and hence have appealed to my friend.

which in true friend form, he turned to me, and asked me what to do.

the public here knows me, as an unflinching patron of progress. but here is the heart wrech. the father ie the brother-in-law is dying of cancer. wow, what a soap opera plot!!

my friend is of average middle class, and INR12.5 lakhs 28,300 dollars here, which is a hefty sum for anyone.

is timekeeping so critical i ask. we figure it is some dare between the tobemotherinlaw and her sisters or such stuff like that.

we have tried to approach the boy through the girl, but each time this topic is brought up, she gets hysterical, and accuses the family of 'not caring' for her happiness.

all in all, everyone is in quandry over this. they have about a month to resolve this.

what should i say?

i have already said it. and it is being carried out. but that is for ths suspense folks. is it not?

over to you public

 

[renuka]

I cant imagine this..this girl is OK with the fact that the boys mother is demanding so much from her family and she still wants this guy..?

What type of female also is that future MIL..shamelessly demanding a 12.5 lakhs gift..and the guy also allows his mum to demand..

If I were the girl..I will tell off the guys family saying.."I rather make you (MIL) a sandalwood coffin with that money and burn you along with it with Premium Grade Petrol...and put it on Youtube.."

 

[Nara]

I am with Renu on this one. K, I know what your advice would have been, there is no suspense here.

What if this guy finds out about the youthful indiscretions from the past and dumps her later on? A guy who demands a watch hiding behind his mother is not worth taking a chance on. The girl must be encouraged to have more confidence, let her regain a little of the lost punk. There are a lot of other fish in the pond, she will find one who loves her back for who she is. Her father must also realize that wedding ceremony is not marriage, mutual respect and love is.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Kunjuppu ji,

Ask the girl to apply for divorce and demand compensation from the other side.

Let her sue the boy and her mother under anti-dowry act

All the best

 

[BALAGOPAL]

Dear kunjuppu, it is a mockery of marriage.the girl is being foolish and the boy and his mother are the most foolish.better not to get married like this.let the girl reform herself and start a new chapter, making hereself independent in terms of money etc and wait for the right guy.let her also view life and marriage in a more positive and healthy way!
Balagopal

 

[venkatpasupathy]

Sir,
Outrageous demand. Reject it. Venkat

 

[amala]

This is disgusting. I'm ill with fever and reading this has made my temperature rise a few degress more! If the guy really likes her, he shouldn't let his mother ask for such expensive gift especially when they know fully well that the girls family can't afford it.

Can somebody please explain to me why men get to sow their oats left, right and centre but they don't have to pay anything of this sort, but when it comes to the girls its a total different set of rules. The funny thing is these boys family don't even know about her dodgy past. What is good for the goose and all that...

I would never marry anyone who asked my parents for dowry. It just doesn't make sense to me. My English friends always say if you're getting the girl shouldn't the boys side pay the girl's dad for losing something. Fair barter no? Giving dowry to the boys side is like getting rid of your daughter and paying someone to take her away from you! Utter madness. How can people respect their husbands after marriage knowing fully well he was a part of this? I could never bear to look at him let alone anything else if he put my parents through this.

This girl should tell the guy to go fly a kite. Plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[RVR]

There are enough laws in India to prohibit dowry

Dowry law in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Demanding dowry is a criminal offence as per Indian laws.

Please advice the girl to enforce the legislation against the offenders.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

folks,

we are dealing with reality here.

as my wife says, only a mother knows the intensity of anxiety to get the daughter married. the father does not care.

this couple, they have not yet married.

nara, i am not so sure you could guess what i did. if it had been run of the mill case, i would not have posted it here. the reason for the post, was the creative, though a dishonourable solution, in my opinion, and i was the architect of it.

this was my solution - i happen to know someone who goes to shanghai regularly. they have these stores there, that sale fake watches and 'fake watches which are better than the real ones'

the fake watches cost about us$50, and the 'better than fakes' costs about us$150.

my contact had purchase the $150, and gone to a jeweller in singapore to check it out. sure enough the jeweller swore that this was an original swiss made.

so, using my contacts, i have arranged to purchase a 'fakes better than real ones' which will hopefully satisfy some greed.

not sure, if this is the beginning of something or one time demand.

disgusting is the word, i use. but this is real life. no amount of legal wrangling is applicable, as the marriage is not yet committed. and girls folks do not want to go that route.

all in all, there are backward elements still existing in our community too. sad to say.

 

[sapthajihva]

Now that you have told the remedy, hope that anyone from the boy's side does not get to read this thread...!

On second thoughts - or would it be better if they get to know of the 'watchful' arrangement..?

 

[kunjuppu]

unlikely..knowing what i heard.. thanks.

 

[sapthajihva]

shri kunjuppu,

my contact had purchase the $150, and gone to a jeweller in singapore to check it out. sure enough the jeweller swore that this was an original swiss made.

am not too sure of the jeweller who asserted that the watch was original... it looks too easy to the eye...

your contact should have sold the watch to the jeweller to ascertain its true worth... maybe that would have been interesting?

if the jeweller does indeed buy it, then it serves a dual purpose... one - as a solution to the problem, and two - it is a good business opportunity... if the incidental costs work out ok!

i guess you would have thought it through... but if not, you can donate my share of the commission to this forum!

 

[BALAGOPAL]

Dear kunjuppu, i am really amazed and shocked to read your way of handling the situation-even fake is given, it is dowry, why you encourage it?this kind of marriage will not last long, i am afraid that the girl is going to have a horrible time.let her remain as single and have peace of mind rather than get chained and suffer.we are the makers of our life.after gettng into the whirlpool, it will be utter foolish to talk that it is her fate etc.let us be wise.let the girl be taken to a councillor and proper guidance is given, let her parents also be guided.
Balagopal

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Amala,

Such incidents are really disgusting

Its like seller-buyer contract...As long as there are no buyers there would not be any sale contract....Some boys are on sale for those who wants to buy at a cost, the prestigious product.

Neither girls side should buy nor boys side should buy human relationship, unlike commercial commodity..

I don’t believe that parents are wishing to get rid of their daughter and trying to pay some one to pass on the burden. In fact they care for their daughters a lot and taking the responsibility to ensure, the boy keeps her happy and contented through out her life. The responsibility of taking care of their daughter is vested on the boy at the cost of the girl’s parent to the extent possible. Whether the concept is right or wrong is a different issue, but a girl blaming her parents is not at all fair.


When the demand arises reluctantly after descent marriage contract without expectations or before desired marriage, than the girls should be bold and logical enough to step out and fish out the right one, rather blaming her family for not meeting the boy's side demands..

Sri Kunjuppu ji,

When we expect something great, we end up loosing something..

As long as we are interested for a better trade off, we need to be prepared to tackle the issues. You did a bang-up job in sorting out the issue…Hats-off to you…

 

[Nara]

... the reason for the post, was the creative, though a dishonourable solution, in my opinion, and i was the architect of it.

Dear K, it is true that I did not guess what you did, but I have to disagree with the "dishonorable" part, well it is not just me who disagrees, it is Thiruvalluvar who does. #292:

பொய்ம்மையும் வாய்மை இடத்த புரை தீர்ந்த
நன்மை பயக்கும் எனின்.

(Even falsehood is truth if good, free of any blemish
may come out of it.)
​

IMHO, there is nothing dishonorable here. Still, I feel a little bit of a pang, is this guy worth it? Only time can tell. Hope the girl finds happiness.

regards ...

 

[nachi naga]

i know malabar palkkad brahmins malayalathans,are wiley niley,your actions have strengthened my opinion further kunjuppu,but done with a good heart imho

 

[pvraman]

Dear Mr Kunjuppu ji, before i read your action, i wanted to suggest the same thing. My clever friends could not guess actually i wore a below 50 usd swiss watch, all the time they were watching the watch with admiration. Later, when I revealed the price, never again my watch merited a second look, from them.

But, if somebody in these times, are ready to give 12.5L worth watch for dowry, i would have suspected the girl and her family. I hope, somebody does not think in that way. A wealthy boy with good character does not need it, and a poor boy does not demand such a gift (instead of money!), whatever...............its weird..

Regards

 

[Jambu]

Interesting The girl is of dubious record of morals But legally correct (Ref kUSHBOOS Judgement) But the boy is both morally & legally seems to be not correct (Dowry Harassment in demanding a watch) If they really tie the knot it should be really interesting to watch the couple in dealing with problems of day to day life! Jambu:noidea:

 

[nachi naga]

watching the inner self as watch is far more valuable,imho,watch the watch as witness

 

[kunjuppu]

i guess this is in a way, my usual reflection of living my life in a gray area - more compromises than absolutes.

i have said 'dishonourable', but do not feel guilty about it. infact, there is a sense of getting moving forward.

who knows the future? at this point, one hurdle has been cleared. maybe inthe future, the boy may feel guilty to return the money?

life, after all, is stranger than fiction.

thank y'all for your comments

 

[Jambu]

1000 பொய் சொல்லியாவது ஒரு கல்யாணம் செய்யலாம் you have done it But the means does not justify the end It is all murky Jambu

 

[C RAVI]

Interesting The girl is of dubious record of morals But legally correct (Ref kUSHBOOS Judgement) But the boy is both morally & legally seems to be not correct (Dowry Harassment in demanding a watch) If they really tie the knot it should be really interesting to watch the couple in dealing with problems of day to day life! Jambu:noidea:

The best post of this thread....In my opinion. :first:

 

[RVR]

i guess this is in a way, my usual reflection of living my life in a gray area - more compromises than absolutes.

i have said 'dishonourable', but do not feel guilty about it. infact, there is a sense of getting moving forward.

who knows the future? at this point, one hurdle has been cleared. maybe inthe future, the boy may feel guilty to return the money?

life, after all, is stranger than fiction.

thank y'all for your comments

Kunjuppu ji,

There is a Thirukkural

வாய்மை எனப்படுவது யாதெனில் யாதொன்றும் தீமையிலாத சொல்

The word `vaaimai' is the most harmless word.

Tamilnadu Secretariat had the following hoarding up to 1967

`Sathyameva Jayathe' - Truth alone will triumph.

Sathyam in sankrit has literal meaning `Truth' -`unmai' உண்மை in Tamil.

Late Chief Minister C N Annadurai (CNA) translated it as Vaaimaye Vellum வாய்மையே வெல்லும்

News reporters asked him whether he doesn't believe in truth. He said it is not required to talk truth always since it may do harm. On the contrary `Vaaimai' is harmless and could be practiced.

He also told a story to justify his action. Some rowdies were chasing an innocent person. The innocent person went into hiding which is known to him. Rowdies asked him where is that innocent person. He replied that he doesn't know since he was practicing `Vaaimai'. If he has told the truth, the innocent person would have been harmed by the rowdies. He explained that Tamil has two different terms `Vaaimai' and `Unmai' having different meanings where as other languages doesn't have equivalent terms.

You have practiced `Vaaimai' and you are justified in your actions as per the above Thirukkural.

Getting things done is an art. You have done it perfectly under the circumstances which is great.

All the best

 

[C RAVI]

i guess this is in a way, my usual reflection of living my life in a gray area - more compromises than absolutes.

i have said 'dishonourable', but do not feel guilty about it. infact, there is a sense of getting moving forward.

who knows the future? at this point, one hurdle has been cleared. maybe inthe future, the boy may feel guilty to return the money?

life, after all, is stranger than fiction.

thank y'all for your comments

"life, after all, is stranger than fiction.........", the most realistic quote Sri Kunjuppu ji...

 

[sapthajihva]

Shri RVR

........
He also told a story to justify his action. Some rowdies were chasing an innocent person. The innocent person went into hiding which is known to him. Rowdies asked him where is that innocent person. He replied that he doesn't know since he was practicing `Vaaimai'. If he has told the truth, the innocent person would have been harmed by the rowdies. He explained that Tamil has two different terms `Vaaimai' and `Unmai' having different meanings where as other languages doesn't have equivalent terms................

The incident has certain assumptions to go with, for the story to be logical. AD should have had prior knowledge that the man was innocent, and that the group chasing them were rowdies...

Let us consider another scenario:

Assume, that AD sees a person being chased by another group. Both are alien to him; the chased ducks into an alley and hides himself. The chasing group comes up and asks AD as to where the other was (or that had he seen him hide)... What would AD say?

AD is always on the side of vaimai and he tells them that he did not see anything... They go elsewhere and the chased man is saved.

Later towards the day, AD is again walking along when he sees the group of chasers passing by with a mournful attitude. On asking why they were so mournful, he gets the reply that they were not able to catch a person, who had earlier burgled a house after murdering the aged inmates. Somehow he was seen by one of the members of the party who had raised the alarm; so the murderer, leaving behind all his loot took off to save himself.

What would run through AD's mind...?

So here unmai should be spoken. I can equally cite a contrasting example where vaimai would triumph.

We can do this now because we are creating sequences to support whatever we think is logical; but can we take that decision in real time?

----------------------------------------------

No, I am not against vaimai or unmai; but both can be equally dangerous when then are applied without 'total' information. The right questions have to be asked at the proper time for all the facts to be revealed. Even then it is a tough ask...

So let us be wise and become over-smart and use vaimai and unmai to the greater benefit...

Regards,