Origin of Tamil Brahmins : Were they from North?

[krishvoice]

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Hello All,

Below was the posting made by one of the person in a forum called www.karuthu.com (where I actively participate) but did not have the proof or right answers to this post. Can any of you (without getting emotional and deal with this like the BJP guys) present the facts please?

Sincerely

Krish

----begin note from karuthu.com

Dear Krishvoice, csabill, arramiah1

The Brahmins arrived Tamil country in the sangam age itself. At that time there was no organised religion here. The brahmins adopted Tamil language. There was no anti Brahmin or anti sanskrit situation then.

Why Alwars and Nayanmars were writng bhakthi hymns? Why those Brahmins like Sambandar were writing in Tamil? For Nothing? Just for Bhajanai?
Why Chidambaram Brahmins kept all those Tamil works for feeding Termites?

The Pallava period witnessed bringing Sanskrit Brahmins from the north of Tamil country for appointment in Temples. It was a part of Aryanisation or Sanskritisation.

Pallava period was a transition period and Later Cholas had to follow the already established social order which was easy for them to rule.

It is still a mystery why Adhitha Cholan, the elder brother of Raja Raja Cholan was ASSASSINATED by Brahmins. Athithan was in charge of Kanchipuram. The power was on transfer to Cholas. The group of Brahmins responsible for killing Athithan were allowed to go to Kerala which was a mild punishment when the Manu dharma society took deep root in Tamil country. There is stone inscription telling this truth. If you cannot believe this ask writer Balakumaran.

It is also a mystery why Kalki could not record this fact in his story.

-----end of note--------

 

[dhrub.b]

the man who has replied to you seems to be a mullah or most probably a christian fanatic.aryan came to india is just one of trhe very ideas nothing has been proved so far.it was a ploy by british to validate there rule here.

men orioginally came from africa it means all the tamil cams from africa first they go to africa then we will join aryans in europe.if that false theory is admitted as true it does not matter anything.some came 1000 year earlier and some come late.

what matters now is there dedication to tamil language and culture.abd despite so much oppresion no one loves tamil language and culture morethen tamil brahmins.WHYTAMIL MUSLIMS OFFER THERE NAMAZ IN ARABIC.DOES THERE ALLAH,IF ANY,CONSIDER ONLY ARABIC AND WHY CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIMS IN TAMILNADu DONOT HAVE TAMIL NAME.WHY THERE CULTURAL COMMITMENT TO ANYTHING TAMIL IS NOT THERE.

ALWAYS BE OFFENSIVE TO PEOPLE LIKE THIS.THIS IS THE MANTRA.BYE.

 

[raviraj]

Brahmins came from North

Yes brahmins came from North India. All Brahmins of the world are descendants Of 9 famous sages, Out of which Agasthaya has the influence over South Indian Brahmins. Similarly, Vashisht has over konkan brahmins and kashyap over Kasmir Pandits and has other things go on

 

[NARAS]

Hinduism Vs Rest

the dmk c.m. of t.nadu, Mr.M.Karunanidhi says that it s an insult to the pride of tamils that tamil is not being recited in temples in t.nadu. as far as i know, all over india, all over world sanskrit because of its seniority to all otherr world languges is given preference in orthodx temples. sanskrit is an indian language recognised in the indian constitution. but arabic, a foreign language not recognised in indian constitution is used in mosques all over t.ndu. is it 'insult' or 'pride' to tamils? or is this 'rationality'?

rational(?) actor sathyaraj says he was a 'believer' once in his life, but turned an athest(?) after reading teachings of the so called periyar. now i think changing you faith is like changing ur father's name inthe middle of your life. wht do u all think (please do not say this s a personal attack. this s certainly not personal - even if it s an attack)

om namo narayanaayah!

 

[KAUNDINYA]

Many Communities In Tn Had Migrated From North India

Yes brahmins came from North India. All Brahmins of the world are descendants Of 9 famous sages, Out of which Agasthaya has the influence over South Indian Brahmins. Similarly, Vashisht has over konkan brahmins and kashyap over Kasmir Pandits and has other things go on

It is utter lie to say that only Brahmins came from North India. So many non-Brahmin communities also have come from North India. Sage Agasthya came from N.India along with 18 Brahmin families, 18 Kshatriya families, 18 Vaisya (Chetty) families & 18 VAELIR (callead PATHINEN VAELIR) families & settled down in Podhiya Malai & surrounding areas,i.e., Tirunelveli area.The Vellalas are descendants of the Pathinen Vaelir. There is evidence for this in ancient Tamil literature like PURANAANOORU. "Kottaatraan", a Tirunelveli VELLALA has written a book entitled "DRAAVIDA MAAYAI--ORE URAIPPAATTU", in which he produces evidence to this effect. In fact he is of the opinion that most Tamil non-Brahmins resemble BENGALIS. In my future post, I'll search for this book & give the address of the publishers.
SWAMI VIVEKANANDA, who belonged to the Bengali NON-BRAHMIN KAAYASTHA CASTE (an accountant community which is the counterpart of the KANAKKAR OR KARUNEEGAR CASTE OF TN), had asked in his Madras speeches, "If Brahmins could come from North India & settle down in South India, what prevented others from coming & settling here? There are 4 varnas in North India & if people of one varna (Brahmins) could come & settle down here, people of other varnas should also have come & settled down here." ("THE MAN MAKING MESSAGE OF SWAMI VIVEKANANDA" PUBLISHED BY SWAMI CHIDBHAVANANDA, who was the "chithappa" of former Union Minister C.SUBRAMANIAM GOUNDER, Sri Ramakrishna Thapovanam, Thirupparaithurai, Near Tiruchi).In fact one Pandya king was related to both the Pandavas & Kauravas & he fed both the factions at the time of the Kurukshetra war. Kalidasa's "RAGHUVAMSAM" says that at the "swayamvaram" of a female ancestor of SRI RAMA were present Tamil kings like the Cholas & Pandyas.
:tea::bolt:

 

[srkpriv]

Isn't it a little odd to just assume only 18 people (or in sets of 18) came from north india to south!. There could have been many many migration to south from north isnt it? Obviously, there (may have been) is a evidence in early works about this. But that's doesnt mean someone didn't come before that or someone didn't come after that.

It is utter lie to say that only Brahmins came from North India. So many non-Brahmin communities also have come from North India. Sage Agasthya came from N.India along with 18 Brahmin families, 18 Kshatriya families, 18 Vaisya (Chetty) families & 18 VAELIR (callead PATHINEN VAELIR) families & settled down in Podhiya Malai & surrounding areas,i.e., Tirunelveli area

 

[raviraj]

Many Communities In Tn Had Migrated From North India

i mean here ony of brahmins, rest indians came from everywhere, rajputs from china, nairs from Nepal. So The list goes On.

 

[silverfox]

Raviraj:
I am intrigued by your statements that Rajputs came from China (?) (how come they don't look like Chinese?), Nairs from Nepal, etc.
Are you basing your assertions based on schalastic and anthropologic studies? Can you give me some references?
Thanks

 

[prpsarathy]

we have an obsession to believe what the west says. Why must we bother about the west and their theories. To large extent i feel the indian civilization was far superior to that of the western. They have the guts to state something and then they will comeback to state that is wrong. Chlora floro carbon CFC they made the whole world believe that it is the best to cool. then when they foudn out that it kills the ozone above their countries they got it eliminated. I suggest that our resources are focussed on bring up our own brethens rather than get into the words of the english jackals. the only good thing they did to the country is to make it one from the hands of the greedy kings who were selling the souls for some wine and women.

Britishes wrote the history and we are believing their history. Their own confession as under :

===================================
LORD MACAULAY’S ADDRESS TO THE BRITISH PARLIAMENT 2 FEBRUARY, 1835

“I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their selfesteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.”

 

[silverfox]

Dear Sarathy:
I take it that you were responding to my posting where I had asked for some references to Raviraj. I hope I didn't give you the impression that I was obsessed with the West!! When I asked for references, it doesn't mean it has to be from a foreigner. By your own admission, we have eminent anthropologists and scholars in India who have done scholarly research and written many books.

In any case, I was lost in your posting; what was the point of your posting?
Anyway, now that you brought it up, we cannot simply sit on our laurels patting ourselves on our back about how great our civilization was. We have to look at what is happening today and do whatever we can to change things.
Well, it looks like LORD MACAULAY achieved his goals. Whenever I come to India and when I talk in Tamil, people reply in English!! It is considered to be snobbishly elite if you speak only in English even among your own! Yes, his (McCaulay) antiquated educational system is deep-rooted and is still flourishing in India (at least in Chennai!).

 

[kudumi]

Hi Silverfox,
I think Rajputs were the descendents of Huns who were from Mongolia or China. I am not sure of the race as such and they were related to toramana and atilla I believe. My memory is weak. Will look into the details and post the details.
With regards,
Jai

 

[prpsarathy]

my objective of the message was that our resources [ so called educated] could look at the current scenario for some solution and assistance to the needy rather than an arm chair expert and discussion on these topics. The reason why i pasted that info was that 'english always had vested interested' they disclose half facts to their convenience to make others as toys.

I also quote about the CFC which they bragged and they brought it down. Any thing given by west has to be looked into carefully and take the best out of them rather than taking them at facevalue.

I did not mean to offend the group but thought it would bring better focus for the objectives with which this group has been formed.

 

[ceetharam]

..........the only good thing they did to the country is to make it one from the hands of the greedy kings who were selling the souls for some wine and women.

Britishes wrote the history and we are believing their history. Their own confession as under :
..........”

We have to thank the British for snatching the power to rule over India , else today we would be muslim brahmins.

ceetharam

 

[KAUNDINYA]

People Of Different Castes Came From The North In Different Batches

Isn't it a little odd to just assume only 18 people (or in sets of 18) came from north india to south!. There could have been many many migration to south from north isnt it? Obviously, there (may have been) is a evidence in early works about this. But that's doesnt mean someone didn't come before that or someone didn't come after that.

It is true that the people who came from N.India with Sage Agasthya were the first batch. After that people of different castes should have come in different batches at different points of time.
:music:

 

[KAUNDINYA]

Foreign Rule Can Never Be Justified

We have to thank the British for snatching the power to rule over India , else today we would be muslim brahmins.

ceetharam

We can never justify rule by foreigners. Both Moghul rule & British rule did incalculable damage to India & the Hindus. As for the British, they had perfected the art of "DIVIDE & RULE".PROF.BALRAJ MADHOK in his book "Indianisation" describes how the wily British set the non-Brahmins against the Brahmins in TN, Muslims against the Hindus throughout India, North Indians against South Indians, Vokkaligas against Lingayaths in Karnataka, Kammas against Reddys in Andhra, Jats against the Banias in Punjab, "Aryans" against the "Dravidians" and so on and so forth. Their only aim was to strengthen & perpetuate their unholy & illegal rule over India.On the one hand they used to appoint Brahmins in govt. jobs & on the other incite the Justice Party & the DK against the Brahmins. They never had any sense of social
justice.Otherwise they could have brought in the system of reservation (the so-called "COMMUNAL G.O. in British days). They could have helped the Backward Castes in education & employment. The sense of justice of the British can be known from one particular incident. In the erstwhile Travancore Sate, which included the present Kanyakumari District of TN, the NAIRS insisted that only upper castes women had the right to cover their breasts ,i.e., only women of upper castes had the right to wear "ravikkais" or "cholies" & NADAR & HARIJAN women should go with bare breasts. When the Nadar & Harijan women began wearing ravikkais after their conversion to Christianity, Nair men used to tear off the former's blouses & make them topless. This injustice by the Nairs was reported to QUEEN VICTORIA by the Christian missionaries. Queen Victoria said that the British had gone to India not for ushering in social justice & that the British should not interfere in the local customs of the natives. What a sense of justice the British had!!! The British rule had done more harm to India than good.
It was the Justice Party Govt. in the erstwhile Madras Presidency which introduced "communal G.O.", the system of reservation for different castes & not the British.

:flame:

 

[KAUNDINYA]

It Was The Jats Who Were Descendents Of Huns

Hi Silverfox,
I think Rajputs were the descendents of Huns who were from Mongolia or China. I am not sure of the race as such and they were related to toramana and atilla I believe. My memory is weak. Will look into the details and post the details.
With regards,
Jai

I once read an article by MULK RAJ ANAND in which he had stated that IT WAS THE JATS WHO WERE "WHITE HUNS". So, it can't be Rajputs.
:director:

 

[krishvoice]

Hi all,

As someone who originated the thread (and revisited it after number of days) I am slightly disappointed that there is no straight arrow answer here.

One has posted Porananoorru, which is really good. If I were to say my abivaathey, by the meaning of it, I become someone who originated from Andhra (according to the meaning of "Aabhasthamba").. anything along those lines?

Anyone?

Sincerely

Krish

 

[NARAS]

sirs- as per darwin theory man originated from monkeys that too african monkeys. so all of us - bramins, non bramins, all hindu gods, prophet mohammed, jesus etc., are all descendants of african monkeys as per science. so racially all of us belong to same family, though culturally we are poles apart.

 

[NARAS]

sirs = pls. remember that once upon a time non bramins were freely allowed to convert to brahminsm. so it is quite possible that many foreign invaders could have converted to brahminism. based on this, it is absurd to conclude that all bramins are foreigners. like that many local non bramins to seem to have converted to braminism and indulged in practices not in conformity with confirmed norms of brahmins. perhaps this is why bramins decided to shut the door permanently and not allow any more conversions to brahminism from other groups. this was done not to proclaim superiority of bramins over others, but only to protect distinctness of braminism. the very fact that bramins banned conversions clearly shows that the converted bramins did perform lot of immoral acts and also that bramins seriously disapproved of those actions.

that apart if tambarams were from north, how can they be called 'tamil' bramins??? the very fact that you call them 'tamil' bramins shows that they are from tamilnadu!!!!

 

[gautham]

all came from africa

recent genetic study have proved that all people- brahmins, non brhamins, dalits, chrisitan muslim whatever came from africa.
See national geographic and IBM joint research on it.

cheers

gautham

:ranger: